Why does zos hate Magicka DK

WillhelmBlack

Trust us, they don't.

They just have no idea about PvP balancing.

WillhelmBlack

Kilandros wrote: »

DKsUnite wrote: »

We are still repenting for pre 1.6 mDK
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cLI0lqIMTkU

Look how much smoother the game used to play

Game was so much more fun then

Don't forget that in turn it looks better also. I actually preferred it before the 1.6 patch.

ak_pvp

TBF I have a really strong build now after some minmaxing. Could go some sturdy, and maybe try bloodspawn, but not sure.

Shackle, skoria, desert rose (the usual) with 4x tri glyphs, 3x spell damage glyphs, apprentice stone and witchmothers (or even CWF but its expensive) Stam is about 15/16k with no tri food. Not much more is needed.

Tankiness comes from heavy. Blocking, cauterize (healing is eh, general benefits are good) and maim talons. Also bats ult.

Sustain comes from relying on healing and misting less, (tankiness benefits above help) desert rose, witchmothers, and passive like mag controller.

All this extra tankiness/sustain allows you to focus more on damage, skoria kind of helps, but my only dots are volatile armour, embers and entropy, with burning and ult being occasional.

Powerlash misses a lot more, and actually hits less often per target. (Often dodged with talons, requires no cc immunity for fossilize, and the 2nd whip window from first stun is 1s) but 10% extra pressure, and lash being able to hit more often on multiple targets, one won't be CC immune. I don't like the loss of a finisher, and the changes toward an even stronger NB/rollypolly/movement (Read: Stam) based meta after lockdown had been nerfed repeatedly, but at least these changes were kind of a buff with a nerf.

Ragnarock41

WillhelmBlack wrote: »

Trust us, they don't.

They just have no idea about PvP balancing.

Probably this is the case, which I understand, I get them.
Just because you made the game doesnt mean you should be good at it.
They should at least understand how it works. Hopefully this class representative thing changes this in a positive way for everyone, buuuuut I doubt it.

DKsUnite

ak_pvp wrote: »

Powerlash misses a lot more, and actually hits less often per target.

@ak_pvp while i know the feeling of missing like 80% of my power lashes, try using shattering rocks if you dont already. It doens't force a roll which lets me land alot more of my power lashes and if they do roll, i can powerlash the other 3 people attacking me coz someone is off balance from the aoe effect.

WillhelmBlack

@DKsUnite Have you switched to Deep Breath this patch?

DKsUnite

WillhelmBlack wrote: »

@DKsUnite Have you switched to Deep Breath this patch?

no, i dropped some recovery so i need draw essence. deep breath also doesn't seem worth it anymore coz of the immunity

WillhelmBlack

DKsUnite wrote: »

WillhelmBlack wrote: »

@DKsUnite Have you switched to Deep Breath this patch?

no, i dropped some recovery so i need draw essence. deep breath also doesn't seem worth it anymore coz of the immunity

What about the extra off balance's though, casting targets are set off balance right? More Lashes, more heals?

JackSmirkingRevenge

Don't forget about us Magwardens while ur reviewing the magdks...

WillhelmBlack

Jeffdkc wrote: »

Don't forget about us Magwardens while ur reviewing the magdks...

A what?

Ragnarock41

WillhelmBlack wrote: »

Jeffdkc wrote: »

Don't forget about us Magwardens while ur reviewing the magdks...

A what?

a magic mush. I'm pretty sure he said magic mush.

NyassaV

Just because you can't fight 4 people with only 3 offensive skills slotted and always win ANYMORE doesn't mean ZoS hates you. It just means they are trying (albeit failing sometimes) to balance things out

Kilandros

NyassaV wrote: »

Just because you can't fight 4 people with only 3 offensive skills slotted and always win ANYMORE doesn't mean ZoS hates you. It just means they are trying (albeit failing sometimes) to balance things out

Hi @NyassaV , it's now 2018. You seem to think it's still 2015. Three years is typically considered a significant passage of time relative to the average human life span. If you have further difficulty acclimating to the year 2018, please consult a calendar.

DKsUnite

WillhelmBlack wrote: »

DKsUnite wrote: »

WillhelmBlack wrote: »

@DKsUnite Have you switched to Deep Breath this patch?

no, i dropped some recovery so i need draw essence. deep breath also doesn't seem worth it anymore coz of the immunity

What about the extra off balance's though, casting targets are set off balance right? More Lashes, more heals?

@WillhelmBlack the only reason i used deep breath was to stop jesus beam spamming templars. Now, that doesn't really happen because they can just spam it freely while CC immune so it's not worth it at all lol. There aren't that many things to interrupt anymore to warrant using the skill. Anything that is interruptable is usually reflectable and i have wings so i have things like dark flare and hard casted frags covered.

kyle.wilson

Kilandros wrote: »

DKsUnite wrote: »

We are still repenting for pre 1.6 mDK
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cLI0lqIMTkU

Look how much smoother the game used to play

Game was so much more fun then

The game also didn't have half the players wearing 3 proc sets then either.
The level of unbalance at that time was insane.

zParallaxz

Emma_Overload wrote: »

Savos_Saren wrote: »

I still hate it when someone gets on and says "Yeah... but mDKs are great at duels!"

Why would I join an MMO to stand around in Rawl'ka or Grahtwood looking to duel someone? I want to do group content! I want to join my buddies in PVE trials or PVP alliance war and have a legitimately solid DPS build. Dueling is such a small fraction of this game.

I'll tell you exactly why people harp on duels and 1v1 performance. There is nothing more humiliating than losing 1v1 because there is no excuse other than 1) your class sucks, 2) your build sucks or 3) YOU suck. Obviously, nobody wants to believe that they suck or they put together a bad build, so blaming unbalanced classes is the default complaint.

In my experience, Mag DKs ARE very strong 1v1, and I know that that's exactly why so many PvPers play them, so they can triumph in 1v1 where their egos are on the line.

You explained dueling perfectly, I congratulate you. Only thing that really counters a magdk is either another better magdk, a necro dual wield magblade, or any tanky/ Uber heal with vitality pots stam build played very well with few to none mistakes.

NyassaV

Kilandros wrote: »

NyassaV wrote: »

Just because you can't fight 4 people with only 3 offensive skills slotted and always win ANYMORE doesn't mean ZoS hates you. It just means they are trying (albeit failing sometimes) to balance things out

Hi @NyassaV , it's now 2018. You seem to think it's still 2015. Three years is typically considered a significant passage of time relative to the average human life span. If you have further difficulty acclimating to the year 2018, please consult a calendar.

I'm fine. It's the ForumKnight who need a hand. Just give DK a passive that reduces all costs by 1 or 2% and move on with life already

zParallaxz

NyassaV wrote: »

Kilandros wrote: »

NyassaV wrote: »

Just because you can't fight 4 people with only 3 offensive skills slotted and always win ANYMORE doesn't mean ZoS hates you. It just means they are trying (albeit failing sometimes) to balance things out

Hi @NyassaV , it's now 2018. You seem to think it's still 2015. Three years is typically considered a significant passage of time relative to the average human life span. If you have further difficulty acclimating to the year 2018, please consult a calendar.

I'm fine. It's the ForumKnight who need a hand. Just give DK a passive that reduces all costs by 1 or 2% and move on with life already

lol u serious, that would just make a lot more people angry. Better mAke that at least 5-6%.

Morgul667

ZoS dont hate them they just not in a good place right now, all classes have been at some point.

Adapt or wait for next expansion that will probably change everything again

ak_pvp

Morgul667 wrote: »

ZoS dont hate them they just not in a good place right now, all classes have been at some point.

Adapt or wait for next expansion that will probably change everything again

The last time MDK was good in openworld was when desert rose was still OP so if you were outnumbered enough you would never run out of mag even at full offense, and block was much easier to permanent.

IIRC that was over a year ago.

NyassaV

zParallaxz wrote: »

NyassaV wrote: »

Kilandros wrote: »

NyassaV wrote: »

Just because you can't fight 4 people with only 3 offensive skills slotted and always win ANYMORE doesn't mean ZoS hates you. It just means they are trying (albeit failing sometimes) to balance things out

Hi @NyassaV , it's now 2018. You seem to think it's still 2015. Three years is typically considered a significant passage of time relative to the average human life span. If you have further difficulty acclimating to the year 2018, please consult a calendar.

I'm fine. It's the ForumKnight who need a hand. Just give DK a passive that reduces all costs by 1 or 2% and move on with life already

lol u serious, that would just make a lot more people angry. Better mAke that at least 5-6%.

I am serious. That passive would be as much as a 5 pc set bonus. 2% may seem small but when it comes to cost reduction you will notice is over the course of the fight and it will make a difference

Kilandros

NyassaV wrote: »

zParallaxz wrote: »

NyassaV wrote: »

Kilandros wrote: »

NyassaV wrote: »

Just because you can't fight 4 people with only 3 offensive skills slotted and always win ANYMORE doesn't mean ZoS hates you. It just means they are trying (albeit failing sometimes) to balance things out

Hi @NyassaV , it's now 2018. You seem to think it's still 2015. Three years is typically considered a significant passage of time relative to the average human life span. If you have further difficulty acclimating to the year 2018, please consult a calendar.

I'm fine. It's the ForumKnight who need a hand. Just give DK a passive that reduces all costs by 1 or 2% and move on with life already

lol u serious, that would just make a lot more people angry. Better mAke that at least 5-6%.

I am serious. That passive would be as much as a 5 pc set bonus. 2% may seem small but when it comes to cost reduction you will notice is over the course of the fight and it will make a difference

Leave it to the token forumblade to weigh in on a class he's probably never spent more than 20 minutes PvPing on

NyassaV

Kilandros wrote: »

NyassaV wrote: »

zParallaxz wrote: »

NyassaV wrote: »

Kilandros wrote: »

NyassaV wrote: »

Just because you can't fight 4 people with only 3 offensive skills slotted and always win ANYMORE doesn't mean ZoS hates you. It just means they are trying (albeit failing sometimes) to balance things out

Hi @NyassaV , it's now 2018. You seem to think it's still 2015. Three years is typically considered a significant passage of time relative to the average human life span. If you have further difficulty acclimating to the year 2018, please consult a calendar.

I'm fine. It's the ForumKnight who need a hand. Just give DK a passive that reduces all costs by 1 or 2% and move on with life already

lol u serious, that would just make a lot more people angry. Better mAke that at least 5-6%.

I am serious. That passive would be as much as a 5 pc set bonus. 2% may seem small but when it comes to cost reduction you will notice is over the course of the fight and it will make a difference

Leave it to the token forumblade to weigh in on a class he's probably never spent more than 20 minutes PvPing on

She* and I've played at least hours on a DK in Cyrodiil, probably more

Kilandros

NyassaV wrote: »

Kilandros wrote: »

NyassaV wrote: »

zParallaxz wrote: »

NyassaV wrote: »

Kilandros wrote: »

NyassaV wrote: »

Just because you can't fight 4 people with only 3 offensive skills slotted and always win ANYMORE doesn't mean ZoS hates you. It just means they are trying (albeit failing sometimes) to balance things out

Hi @NyassaV , it's now 2018. You seem to think it's still 2015. Three years is typically considered a significant passage of time relative to the average human life span. If you have further difficulty acclimating to the year 2018, please consult a calendar.

I'm fine. It's the ForumKnight who need a hand. Just give DK a passive that reduces all costs by 1 or 2% and move on with life already

lol u serious, that would just make a lot more people angry. Better mAke that at least 5-6%.

I am serious. That passive would be as much as a 5 pc set bonus. 2% may seem small but when it comes to cost reduction you will notice is over the course of the fight and it will make a difference

Leave it to the token forumblade to weigh in on a class he's probably never spent more than 20 minutes PvPing on

She* and I've played at least hours on a DK in Cyrodiil, probably more

Oh wow. At least hours. Incredible. And here I worried that your quick and easy solution/fix was the result of years of experience with the ups and downs that has been mDK.

Not that it's likely to change your mind about the state of mDK, but given the current strengths of NBs you might want to focus your attentions to your own class. I remember when DK was the dominant class in Cyrodiil. And I remember what came afterward. Enjoy the ride!

Ragnaroek93

I actually think that Embers should have remained undodgeable. I hate undodgeable skills but the heal from Embers is just too important and it's bad if that heal can get denied. I'm actually sad that the Powerlash heal was nerfed, in my opinion it was a good change to make that skill dodgeable but give it more healing to compensate that.

Emma_Overload wrote: »

Savos_Saren wrote: »

I still hate it when someone gets on and says "Yeah... but mDKs are great at duels!"

Why would I join an MMO to stand around in Rawl'ka or Grahtwood looking to duel someone? I want to do group content! I want to join my buddies in PVE trials or PVP alliance war and have a legitimately solid DPS build. Dueling is such a small fraction of this game.

In my experience, Mag DKs ARE very strong 1v1, and I know that that's exactly why so many PvPers play them, so they can triumph in 1v1 where their egos are on the line.

Or maybe they just play mag Dk because they like the class design. If someone would copy your post and replace the word mag Dk with petsorc you would go on rampage.

NyassaV

Kilandros wrote: »

Not that it's likely to change your mind about the state of mDK, but given the current strengths of NBs you might want to focus your attentions to your own class. I remember when DK was the dominant class in Cyrodiil. And I remember what came afterward. Enjoy the ride!

I've already given my suggestions on Nightblades, as well as Sorcs, and even a few for Templars. People tend to forget positive comments in favor of comments they feel are negative so I don't fault you at all. Just try and keep an open mind. Would you like a 2% cost reduction passive or not? Oh I forgot to mention that the Eruption skill costs WAY to much so give the PvE DKs some love there by reducing it's cost by like; 25% as it's far to expensive at the moment

elijafire

Why are we talking about 1v1 no one cares about 1v1. More to the point, ZoS why do you hate mag DK.

NyassaV

elijafire wrote: »

Why are we talking about 1v1 no one cares about 1v1. More to the point, ZoS why do you hate mag DK.

Cuz mDK is best at 1v1 due to the fact it is designed to be the best at a 1v1 and not the best at open world (though a few wings changes would be nice that are in favor of the knight)

Ragnarock41

NyassaV wrote: »

elijafire wrote: »

Why are we talking about 1v1 no one cares about 1v1. More to the point, ZoS why do you hate mag DK.

Cuz mDK is best at 1v1 due to the fact it is designed to be the best at a 1v1 and not the best at open world (though a few wings changes would be nice that are in favor of the knight)

Actually magDK is designed in the mindset that it is very strong at close range fights and very poor against rangers-kiters.

Which is why their chains-petrify have very poor range and also the mag version of leap has lower range aswell.

Meanwhile stamDk is just your regular fighter/warrior class from any game.

IZZEFlameLash

NyassaV wrote: »

elijafire wrote: »

Why are we talking about 1v1 no one cares about 1v1. More to the point, ZoS why do you hate mag DK.

Cuz mDK is best at 1v1 due to the fact it is designed to be the best at a 1v1 and not the best at open world (though a few wings changes would be nice that are in favor of the knight)

The game did not have duels or 1v1 in mind until Morrowind which introduced the dueling iirc. So, no. MDK was not designed with duels in mind. They were designed to be "stand your ground" class and they are not even close to that in the game for a good while now. Last I remember DK being able to do so was before IC patch. They might have been OP but nerfs were too severe to the point that DKs lost their identity. Either be a full glass cannon or full tank that has near 0 damage. Where as other classes can be jack of all trades with still higher dps than what DKs can do.