Why does zos hate Magicka DK

elijafire

Confirmed fact. Any ideas why?

Cybercore_Death

From what I understand DK’s are seen as a Tanking build by ZoS.

I wouldn’t say that they hate them so much as it’s just unfortunate that the patch changes have hit us so hard.

It’s not just DK’s though. Templars were affected a while back, NB’s not so long back. They add and change how the game works based on player feedback to “improve” gameplay but sometimes the improvements in 1 are affects others negatively.

I was a MagDK faithful but with the patch changes I’ve moved to StamDK. I’m not a fan of the play style for Stam but it works and it’s fluid at least.

I decided to go for a non meta build and it’s pulling the numbers I need which is good.

In case you’re interested I’m a Dunmer (Dark Elf) StamDK. I run Sunderflame, Red Mountain and Veledrith monster set. 6 medium and 1 heavy for weight. I use the @Alcast Venom build rotation and a modified version of his CP for this patch. I pull 32k self bugged and 40k group buffed (and that’s without the right weapon traits and a masters / maelstrom bow so actual numbers will be far higher once complete).

VaranisArano

ZOS loves MagDK tanks.

Ragnarock41

VaranisArano wrote: »

ZOS loves MagDK tanks.

DKsUnite

We are still repenting for pre 1.6 mDK
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cLI0lqIMTkU

Narvuntien

The issue is basically that they were balanced around getting resources back from their ultimate and now that is a fixed amount they can't sustain. They just haven't rebalanced the class to having less resource sustain since morrowind. Its a big game... they'll get to it eventually.

Seraphayel

Well we will see if they really hate them when they're releasing the major combat/class change notes for the upcoming Chapter...

SydneyGrey

I have a magDK that was my main for nearly a year. She's been shelved indefinitely now, since she now has the worst DPS of any of my other characters. She can get through a delve or public dungeon, that's pretty much it. LOL. She'd be an embarrassment to try to take into a 4-man dungeon.

The only reason I'm not deleting her is I keep hoping ZOS will come to their senses one day and make her viable again.

I won't make her a tank, because I already have a stamDK tank.

Chilly-McFreeze

Seems like you only focus on pve dd, he? They are the best tanking class and not as bad as you might think in pvp. I could make the exact same thread about sorcs bc your OP is an empty shell. At least attempt to be constructive.

ak_pvp

That is it.

They are tanks, balanced around the gutted block, regeneration, and old lockdown.

PvE: Sustain, rip. Melee spot, and much less DPS. (less support than a temp either) no execute, and no buffs because it'd buff stamDKs dps too.

PvP: The sustain, survive, lockdown and burn techniques no longer works. Block is too expensive openworld and wings are rip, dynamic ult, and battle roar scaling doesn't exist, and talons isn't worth it solo.

They are good in duels, and OK with a small group as a root spammed. And they are passable for non competitive stuff. (for vSP u had to sacrifice a lot of dps to play pseudo ranged)

Lexxypwns

PvP mDK is the second strongest magika spec

DaveMoeDee

SydneyGrey wrote: »

I have a magDK that was my main for nearly a year. She's been shelved indefinitely now, since she now has the worst DPS of any of my other characters. She can get through a delve or public dungeon, that's pretty much it. LOL. She'd be an embarrassment to try to take into a 4-man dungeon.

The only reason I'm not deleting her is I keep hoping ZOS will come to their senses one day and make her viable again.

I won't make her a tank, because I already have a stamDK tank.

I'm surprised you're even mentioning deletion when the meta cycles all the time.

VaranisArano

SydneyGrey wrote: »

I have a magDK that was my main for nearly a year. She's been shelved indefinitely now, since she now has the worst DPS of any of my other characters. She can get through a delve or public dungeon, that's pretty much it. LOL. She'd be an embarrassment to try to take into a 4-man dungeon.

The only reason I'm not deleting her is I keep hoping ZOS will come to their senses one day and make her viable again.

I won't make her a tank, because I already have a stamDK tank.

You do you, but MagDK is a fun tank. Talons, chains, and burning embers all day.

ak_pvp

Lexxypwns wrote: »

PvP mDK is the second strongest magika spec

Really?

Seems you are weighing too heavily on their dominance in duels, because they are hot *** solo OW, and every other mag class outdoes them in a group, two other can rootspam too.

A magsorc is top 3 in duels, (pets) better OW (mobility and sustain) and much better in groups, (negates, executes and even unblockable CC + encase)

A Magplar is a bit *** in duels, similar in OW (Better sustain, healing and purge, but low lockdown and janky offense) and a hell of a lot better in groups.

Magden is again a little eh in duels, better or equal in OW (Better sustain, mobility, burst, bit low lockdown, but they do have icetalons less pressure, so burst kind of cancels) and again better in group.

ak_pvp

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/400696/dks-need-a-reform-because-the-game-has-changed#latest

Savos_Saren

I still hate it when someone gets on and says "Yeah... but mDKs are great at duels!"

Why would I join an MMO to stand around in Rawl'ka or Grahtwood looking to duel someone? I want to do group content! I want to join my buddies in PVE trials or PVP alliance war and have a legitimately solid DPS build. Dueling is such a small fraction of this game.

Kilandros

DKsUnite wrote: »

We are still repenting for pre 1.6 mDK
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cLI0lqIMTkU

Look how much smoother the game used to play

Game was so much more fun then

Ragnarock41

Lexxypwns wrote: »

PvP mDK is the second strongest magika spec

for battlegrounds this is probably the case. But with that being said I am having a much easier time against mDks compared to morrowind.

With that being said medium armor stamDK is still soo far away from viability , especially in no-cp, with all the nightblades around.

in Heavy armor OW, I am somewhat successful at least, but to have that success I am carrying 4-5 different type of potions and also lots of different poisons. I realized that key to survival is adaptation, more than anything else.

Part of the issue is that Dk is a dot class and medium armor doesn't really synergize with those dots. Which forces you to go dizzy swing and oh I hate using dizzying swing.

Priyasekarssk

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

PvP mDK is the second strongest magika spec

for battlegrounds this is probably the case. But with that being said I am having a much easier time against mDks compared to morrowind.

With that being said medium armor stamDK is still soo far away from viability , especially in no-cp, with all the nightblades around.

in Heavy armor OW, I am somewhat successful at least, but to have that success I am carrying 4-5 different type of potions and also lots of different poisons. I realized that key to survival is adaptation, more than anything else.

Part of the issue is that Dk is a dot class and medium armor doesn't really synergize with those dots. Which forces you to go dizzy swing and oh I hate using dizzying swing.

Its you!!!!.

Priyasekarssk

Only class ESO loves is nightblade. Lets all have NB stamina build . Lets all play hide and seek with lethal arrows in PVP. Rather than complaining ditch all other classes. Trust me it would be fun.

elijafire

Cybercore_Death wrote: »

From what I understand DK’s are seen as a Tanking build by ZoS.

I wouldn’t say that they hate them so much as it’s just unfortunate that the patch changes have hit us so hard.

It’s not just DK’s though. Templars were affected a while back, NB’s not so long back. They add and change how the game works based on player feedback to “improve” gameplay but sometimes the improvements in 1 are affects others negatively.

I was a MagDK faithful but with the patch changes I’ve moved to StamDK. I’m not a fan of the play style for Stam but it works and it’s fluid at least.

I decided to go for a non meta build and it’s pulling the numbers I need which is good.

In case you’re interested I’m a Dunmer (Dark Elf) StamDK. I run Sunderflame, Red Mountain and Veledrith monster set. 6 medium and 1 heavy for weight. I use the @Alcast Venom build rotation and a modified version of his CP for this patch. I pull 32k self bugged and 40k group buffed (and that’s without the right weapon traits and a masters / maelstrom bow so actual numbers will be far higher once complete).

I just parsed 25k on a dummy using full legendary and perfect rotation best gear in the game and was told that's as good as it gets. Went to 30k for a min or two but tapered back down quickly.

I go on my mag sorc and do 34k in meh gear, that's not hate? Fascinating.

ak_pvp

elijafire wrote: »

Cybercore_Death wrote: »

From what I understand DK’s are seen as a Tanking build by ZoS.

I wouldn’t say that they hate them so much as it’s just unfortunate that the patch changes have hit us so hard.

It’s not just DK’s though. Templars were affected a while back, NB’s not so long back. They add and change how the game works based on player feedback to “improve” gameplay but sometimes the improvements in 1 are affects others negatively.

I was a MagDK faithful but with the patch changes I’ve moved to StamDK. I’m not a fan of the play style for Stam but it works and it’s fluid at least.

I decided to go for a non meta build and it’s pulling the numbers I need which is good.

In case you’re interested I’m a Dunmer (Dark Elf) StamDK. I run Sunderflame, Red Mountain and Veledrith monster set. 6 medium and 1 heavy for weight. I use the @Alcast Venom build rotation and a modified version of his CP for this patch. I pull 32k self bugged and 40k group buffed (and that’s without the right weapon traits and a masters / maelstrom bow so actual numbers will be far higher once complete).

I just parsed 25k on a dummy using full legendary and perfect rotation best gear in the game and was told that's as good as it gets. Went to 30k for a min or two but tapered back down quickly.

I go on my mag sorc and do 34k in meh gear, that's not hate? Fascinating.

Nah, no offense, but that's a L2P issue.

I doubt it tbh. I parsed 30k pure solo in a very messy setup. 2x zaan, 5x BSW, 3x infal, 1x nonset lightning with regen glyph, and 1x vMA. Witchmothers food. I could have gotten more from fire front bar, and 4x moondancer, and golding the monster set out.

As you can see not great, the stone was apprentice, no lover cheese. The rotation was generally *** too, missing hits and relying on heavy attacks a little too much. OFC yeah, it could be much better, if the class had better sustain it would help.

Bazeric

I know DKs were kind of in a rough place after the first year of god mode, but in PVP (at least) I have a pretty fun build (OW) that's not even complete. So as far a PVP goes I think it is a play-style issue. I was chatting with high ranked RageAkinos last night when I saw their post with stats and found they have a different play-style from mine and I don't think they have any trouble.

I haven't PVE'd enough on my mDK to have anything to add, but it feel like they are a weird mid-range type play-style (if you use a staff). I'd like to burn things with engulfing and wall though, seems toasty.

Hate is a strong word, I don't think they hate DKs, they just aren't bothered enough to iron them out as DPS. I mean they shafted NB tanks pretty good, but I guess it was to keep DPS NB in check.

Ragnarock41

Priyasekarssk wrote: »

Only class ESO loves is nightblade. Lets all have NB stamina build . Lets all play hide and seek with lethal arrows in PVP. Rather than complaining ditch all other classes. Trust me it would be fun.

when sorc was dominating both pvp and pve, it didnt end well for them.

Same case for DK.

Just give it a few months, I'm afraid nbs are about to get some FAAAAT nerfs.

ak_pvp

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Priyasekarssk wrote: »

Only class ESO loves is nightblade. Lets all have NB stamina build . Lets all play hide and seek with lethal arrows in PVP. Rather than complaining ditch all other classes. Trust me it would be fun.

when sorc was dominating both pvp and pve, it didnt end well for them.

Same case for DK.

Just give it a few months, I'm afraid nbs are about to get some FAAAAT nerfs.

NB has been top 3 for last few cycles, with 1 being either sorc or warden. I don't think that they will actually ever recieve thicc nerfs because 1) Too popular 2) Too volatile.

Even after the procalypse, they didn't get nerfed, which was where they were the worst, though indirectly, with the mass morrowind nerfs, only siphoning got a substantial nerf, and lets be real, it was overperforming before. The volitility comes from the issue that ZOS cannot make them consistent one patch to the next due to spaghetti code on cloak, look at the crits, they aren't intended, nor were the breaks from dots. (blanket fixed that with a buff, it still happens on soul trap iirc)

Ishammael

Kilandros wrote: »

DKsUnite wrote: »

We are still repenting for pre 1.6 mDK
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cLI0lqIMTkU

Look how much smoother the game used to play

Game was so much more fun then

:'(

Miss the old cinder storm, too

FloppyTouch

Ishammael wrote: »

Kilandros wrote: »

DKsUnite wrote: »

We are still repenting for pre 1.6 mDK
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cLI0lqIMTkU

Look how much smoother the game used to play

Game was so much more fun then

:'(

Miss the old cinder storm, too

I miss it too

Emma_Overload

Savos_Saren wrote: »

I still hate it when someone gets on and says "Yeah... but mDKs are great at duels!"

Why would I join an MMO to stand around in Rawl'ka or Grahtwood looking to duel someone? I want to do group content! I want to join my buddies in PVE trials or PVP alliance war and have a legitimately solid DPS build. Dueling is such a small fraction of this game.

I'll tell you exactly why people harp on duels and 1v1 performance. There is nothing more humiliating than losing 1v1 because there is no excuse other than 1) your class sucks, 2) your build sucks or 3) YOU suck. Obviously, nobody wants to believe that they suck or they put together a bad build, so blaming unbalanced classes is the default complaint.

In my experience, Mag DKs ARE very strong 1v1, and I know that that's exactly why so many PvPers play them, so they can triumph in 1v1 where their egos are on the line.

boombazookajd

Cybercore_Death wrote: »

I run Sunderflame, Red Mountain and Veledrith monster set. 6 medium and 1 heavy for weight. I use the @Alcast Venom build rotation and a modified version of his CP for this patch. I pull 32k self bugged and 40k group buffed (and that’s without the right weapon traits and a masters / maelstrom bow so actual numbers will be far higher once complete).

Red Mountain is the best! I run Hundings, Red Mountain, and Skoria 6/1/0 on my build also using his Venom build. I'm at 266CP's and only pull 19k on average, that's w/o a Maelstrom Bow.

Jsmalls

Kilandros wrote: »

DKsUnite wrote: »

We are still repenting for pre 1.6 mDK
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cLI0lqIMTkU

Look how much smoother the game used to play

Game was so much more fun then

Look how spread out that large scale PvP fight was... THAT'S what I miss.

SanSan

I recently came back and quit again.
I enjoy a fire mage and this game lacks it. MagDk being the only fire mage type and it sucks.
Gotta be up close, huge magicka drain, by the time i get my dots and 2-3 whips, i'm out.
I'll just go back to WoW and PoE. Done with this game to be honest; doesn't have what i enjoy.