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Why Is Heavy Armor “Back”?

Ch4mpTW
Ch4mpTW
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Just a few weeks ago I was told how MagDK’s should be sporting 5pcs. light armor, and how I was suboptimal for using 5pcs. heavy. Yet, all of a sudden with Dragon Bones, it’s the “in” thing to use heavy armor on a MagDK. I’m seeing that a lot of the folks who told me to switch from heavy armor to light armor previously, are now wearing heavy armor. Lol. Why is this?

Oh, and the same regarding Rattlecage and Seducer. I keep hearing how it’s so lovely for MagDK’s all of a sudden, when I told a few months ago to deconstruct it. This being because it supposedly is a “trash” set. Mind explaining that too?
  • Peekachu99
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    Hyperbolic meta-chasers just parroting FUD, then the dust settles and everything is actually okay. Business as usual, post patch.
  • Knowledge
    Knowledge
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    I thought they deleted Magicka DK.
  • Ch4mpTW
    Ch4mpTW
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    Peekachu99 wrote: »
    Hyperbolic meta-chasers just parroting FUD, then the dust settles and everything is actually okay. Business as usual, post patch.

    @Peekachu99 I figured it was some FOTM nonsense, when I was initially told how I was making a bad choice being a heavy armor MagDK. But like, this is crazy. So many people have switched from their glorious light armor builds to heavy armor. Even Blob made a heavy armor build variant for dragon bones.

    Edit: Morning grammar is bad. Lol.
    Edited by Ch4mpTW on February 25, 2018 12:03PM
  • madeeh91rwb17_ESO
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    Because the primary reason in history warriors didn't wear heavy armor was because they couldn't afford it :p

    Just Kidding
    Edited by madeeh91rwb17_ESO on February 25, 2018 12:05PM
  • Lord_Hev
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    The switch back to heavy is because they gutted the ability to perma-block in light armor, again.
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  • ak_pvp
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    Rattle/seducer isn't bad. Its just not meta. Light armour also remains good. All depends on the play style, since there isn't just one DK.

    As for the switch back, it all depends on the meta. NB is back in full force, since the soul assault, powerwhip and bird being a huge detriment to med armour issue is over. So with the hordes of NBs some anti gank protection is needed. The warden FOTM is a little down atm since nothing quite compares to old 7th and bird spam, despite the group killing power of warden still being good.

    I personally run light in BGs/1v1s. The burst damage is much higher. But have gone to heavy for OW since the lockdown and burn playstyle got a buff with more whips, higher exploiter (and on more targets) etc. Nothing quite beats DR for sustain either.
    MagDK main. PC/EU @AK-ESO
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  • Ch4mpTW
    Ch4mpTW
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    Lord_Hev wrote: »
    The switch back to heavy is because they gutted the ability to perma-block in light armor, again.

    @Lord_Hev Where is that in the patch notes? All I saw was that block cost glyphs were changed.
  • ak_pvp
    ak_pvp
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    Lord_Hev wrote: »
    The switch back to heavy is because they gutted the ability to perma-block in light armor, again.

    Yeah, this is another, possible reason. Some ran 1/2 block glyphs in light because they didn't need extra sustain or damage, but did need the defense since ironically the tank class has nothing signature class wise. (We don't talk about wings.)

    However the 20% cost reduction has probably fixed that in many cases.
    Edited by ak_pvp on February 25, 2018 12:27PM
    MagDK main. PC/EU @AK-ESO
    Best houseknight EU.
  • Smmokkee
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    Ch4mpTW wrote: »
    Just a few weeks ago I was told how MagDK’s should be sporting 5pcs. light armor, and how I was suboptimal for using 5pcs. heavy. Yet, all of a sudden with Dragon Bones, it’s the “in” thing to use heavy armor on a MagDK. I’m seeing that a lot of the folks who told me to switch from heavy armor to light armor previously, are now wearing heavy armor. Lol. Why is this?

    Oh, and the same regarding Rattlecage and Seducer. I keep hearing how it’s so lovely for MagDK’s all of a sudden, when I told a few months ago to deconstruct it. This being because it supposedly is a “trash” set. Mind explaining that too?

    Its the same people that say NB are OP despite how much the forums hated them not to long ago. Same people that whine MagDk is dead.. hold up bro.. that is you lol! You probably listen to those nerds a little too much.
  • Jura23
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    Ch4mpTW wrote: »
    Peekachu99 wrote: »
    Hyperbolic meta-chasers just parroting FUD, then the dust settles and everything is actually okay. Business as usual, post patch.

    @Peekachu99 I figured it was some FOTM nonsense, when I was initially told how I was making a bad choice being a heavy armor MagDK. But like, this is crazy. So many people have switched from their glorious light armor builds to heavy armor. Even Blob made a heavy armor build variant for dragon bones.

    Edit: Morning grammar is bad. Lol.

    Why dont you tell them now they are suboptimal.
    Georgion - Bosmer/Templar - PC/EU
  • WillhelmBlack
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    Lord_Hev wrote: »
    The switch back to heavy is because they gutted the ability to perma-block in light armor, again.

    It's this
    PC EU
  • Savos_Saren
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    It's probably because a bunch of mDKs were relying on zergsurfing for survivability and not slotting skills to make them survivable with the change. Suddenly, there's no AOE cap and they're taking more damage.

    You can still have ~24k phys/spell resistances in light armor while on an mDK without giving up on damage sets. Heck, I run Valkyn, Sun, and Innate Axiom in a 5l/1m/1h setup- so I still have ~10k spell penetration with SnB equipped.
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  • Saucy_Jack
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    I guess what I don't understand is how these guys have the patience to recraft/switch their gear every half-week, it seems.

    I sort of understand the desire to raise DPS by 0.001% or whathaveyou if that's what you're into, but I mean, do these guys just keep sets and sets and sets of golded gear in their banks? Do they decon?

    I suppose I think of it like this: a golfer who can only make good shots when the wind is juuuust right isn't truly a good golfer; a good golfer is one who can make good shots regardless of whether the wind's blowing his/her way or not.

    A good PVP/trials player isn't one who can only do well when their gear is juuuust right; a good PVP/trials player is one who can do well even if their gear isn't the super apex of minmaxing.
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  • Dracane
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    I think it's as you said, OP: Everyone was nervous and fed up after the update and thought, DK died and that heavy armor was not good anymore. After some time, they realized that light armor makes things just more complicated withouth offering significant advantages in return and that heavy armor is still best in slot for them. Heavy armor has never been bad after the Elder Staves Online Era was over.
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  • ak_pvp
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    Saucy_Jack wrote: »
    I guess what I don't understand is how these guys have the patience to recraft/switch their gear every half-week, it seems.

    I sort of understand the desire to raise DPS by 0.001% or whathaveyou if that's what you're into, but I mean, do these guys just keep sets and sets and sets of golded gear in their banks? Do they decon?

    I suppose I think of it like this: a golfer who can only make good shots when the wind is juuuust right isn't truly a good golfer; a good golfer is one who can make good shots regardless of whether the wind's blowing his/her way or not.

    A good PVP/trials player isn't one who can only do well when their gear is juuuust right; a good PVP/trials player is one who can do well even if their gear isn't the super apex of minmaxing.

    I pretty much only play DK now, so I have like 7 different possible PvP setups. (Not all golded, but important parts,) I just switch it out occasionally as the meta shifts. Brought back shackle+DR.
    MagDK main. PC/EU @AK-ESO
    Best houseknight EU.
  • ak_pvp
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    Dracane wrote: »
    I think it's as you said, OP: Everyone was nervous and fed up after the update and thought, DK died and that heavy armor was not good anymore. After some time, they realized that light armor makes things just more complicated withouth offering significant advantages in return and that heavy armor is still best in slot for them. Heavy armor has never been bad after the Elder Staves Online Era was over.

    A lot this patch has changed though for DKs. Blocking is better, and in many cases whip is better. (Dodgable makes it less reliable burst wise, but my sustain build gained a massive buff.) Talons also became really mediocre for actual lockdown or pressure, since it means your whip will be dodged. So I use the maim morph occasionally.

    Heavy is still eh after the blanket changes to combat the 7th/fury/BR permablockers. But the specific meta now fits well with tankiness.
    MagDK main. PC/EU @AK-ESO
    Best houseknight EU.
  • alephthiago
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    I dont see any reason to go back to heavy, im too addicted to killing faster and seeing big numbers.
    Dragonknights in heavy armor have sustain issues, less penetration and less critical, after the change to battle roar its not viable for me anymore.
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  • WillhelmBlack
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    I don't know if any of you read the patch notes.

    They've changed the way block is calculated and a few players have made threads and videos about it if you want to know more.

    Basically block cost reduction glyphs are a waste, may as well get extra stamina sustain from 5 heavy and go all spell damage or recovery or whatever on your glyphs.

    Most have switched to tri food instead of Witchmothers also.

    I play in both light and heavy, heavy is definitely stronger than light in Cyrodiil, ofc there are still light users using staves and then there's still the double snb players that can still reck face in 5 light. I'd say light is still better for BG's.

    PC EU
  • Rohaus
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    Heavy armor never left.

    Though it has been nerfed repeatedly, I still prefer heavy over anything else.
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  • Juju_beans
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    The "meta" will always be changing and the min/maxers chase the meta.

    When you see that "everyone is wearing this" then have no fear that it will change in the next patch.

    This exists in all MMO's.
    Edited by Juju_beans on February 25, 2018 6:09PM
  • Mitrenga
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    Nice to see people still playing a DK, yet a Mag DK.

    P.S: From a saptank.
    Edited by Mitrenga on February 25, 2018 6:10PM
  • Wing
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    I don't see any reason why it should be "back"

    fortified brass did a lot to put a nail in the coffin as well, its usually better stat wise to run 5 light brass and 2 heavy (or 5 med brass 2 heavy for stamina) if you want a bruiser style tanky damage build.

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  • Ihatenightblades
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    Ch4mpTW wrote: »
    Peekachu99 wrote: »
    Hyperbolic meta-chasers just parroting FUD, then the dust settles and everything is actually okay. Business as usual, post patch.

    @Peekachu99 I figured it was some FOTM nonsense, when I was initially told how I was making a bad choice being a heavy armor MagDK. But like, this is crazy. So many people have switched from their glorious light armor builds to heavy armor. Even Blob made a heavy armor build variant for dragon bones.

    Edit: Morning grammar is bad. Lol.

    Just because a streamer makes a build doesnt mean its meta. In fact i looked up video to see his sets and i doubt he can kill anything with the spell damage and low penetration his build has.

    He may kill squishy builds but I promise a heavy armor magdk with 1800 spell dmg unbuffed is NOT killing anyone with decent resistances

    Light armor fortified brass would even be better imo because atleast you get the 5k pen.

    If you are in heavy armor you need a stave on 1 bar for ele drain atleast. Or damage will be really low.

  • Sixty5
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    Honestly, I'd avoid listening to what is said, and just try out different setups for yourself.

    If you like how light feels, stick with it, regardless of what the metamancers say.
    Lord and Savior of the Association of Serious S***posters.

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  • rfennell_ESO
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    Lord_Hev wrote: »
    The switch back to heavy is because they gutted the ability to perma-block in light armor, again.

    That and a light armor user without miat's is 2 snipes and a poison injection from dead.
  • CyrusArya
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    It never went anywhere. The best explanation I can offer is to test things for yourself and formulate your own opinions instead of basing your understanding of balance on third party conversations and chatter.
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    It's so you can comfortably sport Zaan
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  • ak_pvp
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    Ch4mpTW wrote: »
    Peekachu99 wrote: »
    Hyperbolic meta-chasers just parroting FUD, then the dust settles and everything is actually okay. Business as usual, post patch.

    @Peekachu99 I figured it was some FOTM nonsense, when I was initially told how I was making a bad choice being a heavy armor MagDK. But like, this is crazy. So many people have switched from their glorious light armor builds to heavy armor. Even Blob made a heavy armor build variant for dragon bones.

    Edit: Morning grammar is bad. Lol.

    Just because a streamer makes a build doesnt mean its meta. In fact i looked up video to see his sets and i doubt he can kill anything with the spell damage and low penetration his build has.

    He may kill squishy builds but I promise a heavy armor magdk with 1800 spell dmg unbuffed is NOT killing anyone with decent resistances

    Light armor fortified brass would even be better imo because atleast you get the 5k pen.

    If you are in heavy armor you need a stave on 1 bar for ele drain atleast. Or damage will be really low.

    Tbf it's using axiom so 2.3k, and ele drain for pen. Skoria also exists and provides help.
    MagDK main. PC/EU @AK-ESO
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  • dodgehopper_ESO
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    Heavy armor should always be there. People should have to debate over the decision. It should not be a 'potato' choice.
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  • Lord_Hev
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    Ch4mpTW wrote: »
    Lord_Hev wrote: »
    The switch back to heavy is because they gutted the ability to perma-block in light armor, again.

    @Lord_Hev Where is that in the patch notes? All I saw was that block cost glyphs were changed.


    The changes to how block cost glyphs are calculated is the nerf. The reason light armor was able to perma-block was due to stacking block glyphs and letting light armor passive and sets cover your magic sustain and damage. With the glyph change, if you stack block reduction, you fall short on permablocking, and if you run no glyphs, you can only sustain block against 1 or 2 targets wailing on you.

    You can reasonably block in heavy with zero block glyphs due to constitution passive + the base block cost being reduced.
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