The only thing missing for class balance is a Nightblade nerf.

ak_pvp

NB is the most balanced class in game. Though 100% dot supression seems a bit strong in general, should be 50% and no reveal. Dots suck ow.

magictucktuck

ak_pvp wrote: »

NB is the most balanced class in game. Though 100% dot supression seems a bit strong in general, should be 50% and no reveal. Dots suck ow.

I main a NB and i would not mind this IF we got purge back on dark cloak. but maybe we only purge 2 dots and take 50 percent from the rest.

Geroken777

Knowledge wrote: »

When you take into account the Sorc, DK, Templar, and Warden they all feel roughly on par with each other or just needing a few tweaks to be evened out. On the other hand the Magblade and even Stamblade seem to be on an entirely different level. If they were brought down significantly while the other classes continued to receive minor tuning the game would be in a much better place balance wise.

Are you like a ****posting bot?

huschdeguddzje

No nerfs, more buffs

Mazbt

magblades don't have a burst heal and siphoning attacks got imo really nerfed. nice try tho.

LordSemaj

Mazbt wrote: »

magblades don't have a burst heal and siphoning attacks got imo really nerfed. nice try tho.

The current magblade meta is Sap Essence + Eye of Flame + Proxy Det in large groups with a warden supplying Permafrost for CC and Major Protection and extra damage with Major Resolve/Major Ward buffs and healing. Makes it a nice tanky group that murders other nice tanky groups.

Grabmoore

Knowledge wrote: »

Voxicity wrote: »

Nightblade needs to be buffed

But it's high performing in PVE and PVP.

So should all classes. NB is the only balanced class and all other classes should be buffed to be on par with Nightblade.

Feanor

Mazbt wrote: »

magblades don't have a burst heal and siphoning attacks got imo really nerfed. nice try tho.

And that’s because an instant burst heal on a class with cloak (and for mag access to a shield) would be absurdly powerful.

Dojohoda

NO
Nightblade does not need nerf.

Maulkin

Bonzodog01 wrote: »

You should try taking a stamblade into a dungeon, any dungeon sometime. They will fail horribly, as they have no real sustain for handling the boss fights. Magblades do a lot better at this, but still lack the DPS in comparison.

The only place where Stamblades and magblades stand out is in PvP, and any competent mage can uncloak a stealthed nightblade with ease, at which point they become very squishy.

Not that I'm advocating any nerfs, but can only laugh at the complete lack of current meta knowledge.

In PvE both types of NB are literally at the top of their respective trees damage-wise. Nothing hits harder or sustains better than a magblade or a stamblade since Morrowind. Sorcs and StamDKs are literally the only other classes which people take for DPS in trials and that's mostly for debuffing/buffing with Sunderflame, Attronach and Concussion.

Magblades and Stamblades are so far ahead of anything else in ranged and melee damage that they have practically caused the extinction of MagDK, MagPlar and StamPlar DDs from trials. And Wardens don't even get a look-in. But yeah, I'm sure NBs suck in PvE

JobooAGS

Maulkin wrote: »

Bonzodog01 wrote: »

You should try taking a stamblade into a dungeon, any dungeon sometime. They will fail horribly, as they have no real sustain for handling the boss fights. Magblades do a lot better at this, but still lack the DPS in comparison.

The only place where Stamblades and magblades stand out is in PvP, and any competent mage can uncloak a stealthed nightblade with ease, at which point they become very squishy.

Not that I'm advocating any nerfs, but can only laugh at the complete lack of current meta knowledge.

In PvE both types of NB are literally at the top of their respective trees damage-wise. Nothing hits harder or sustains better than a magblade or a stamblade since Morrowind. Sorcs and StamDKs are literally the only other classes which people take for DPS in trials and that's mostly for debuffing/buffing with Sunderflame, Attronach and Concussion.

Magblades and Stamblades are so far ahead of anything else in ranged and melee damage that they have practically caused the extinction of MagDK, MagPlar and StamPlar DDs from trials. And Wardens don't even get a look-in. But yeah, I'm sure NBs suck in PvE

Stamplar? Potl? But yeah, nbs are in a good spot, no buffs nor nerfs needed for them. Buff other classes, likely with more group utility

VelociousLegend

No.

Nihility42

Maulkin

JobooAGS wrote: »

Maulkin wrote: »

Bonzodog01 wrote: »

You should try taking a stamblade into a dungeon, any dungeon sometime. They will fail horribly, as they have no real sustain for handling the boss fights. Magblades do a lot better at this, but still lack the DPS in comparison.

The only place where Stamblades and magblades stand out is in PvP, and any competent mage can uncloak a stealthed nightblade with ease, at which point they become very squishy.

Not that I'm advocating any nerfs, but can only laugh at the complete lack of current meta knowledge.

In PvE both types of NB are literally at the top of their respective trees damage-wise. Nothing hits harder or sustains better than a magblade or a stamblade since Morrowind. Sorcs and StamDKs are literally the only other classes which people take for DPS in trials and that's mostly for debuffing/buffing with Sunderflame, Attronach and Concussion.

Magblades and Stamblades are so far ahead of anything else in ranged and melee damage that they have practically caused the extinction of MagDK, MagPlar and StamPlar DDs from trials. And Wardens don't even get a look-in. But yeah, I'm sure NBs suck in PvE

Stamplar? Potl? But yeah, nbs are in a good spot, no buffs nor nerfs needed for them. Buff other classes, likely with more group utility

What about potl? It has a cap on damage, which a single DD will hit in 2-3 seconds. It's just a burst damage skill, not one that helps the group in any way. Bosses are already being fully penetrated by Torugs with Cursher, Sunder, NMG and Alkosh.

Stamblades have better sustain through Siphoning, better group utility through War Machine + Incap and are better in both overall damage and especially during the burn phase due to having an execute.

JobooAGS

Maulkin wrote: »

JobooAGS wrote: »

Maulkin wrote: »

Bonzodog01 wrote: »

You should try taking a stamblade into a dungeon, any dungeon sometime. They will fail horribly, as they have no real sustain for handling the boss fights. Magblades do a lot better at this, but still lack the DPS in comparison.

The only place where Stamblades and magblades stand out is in PvP, and any competent mage can uncloak a stealthed nightblade with ease, at which point they become very squishy.

Not that I'm advocating any nerfs, but can only laugh at the complete lack of current meta knowledge.

In PvE both types of NB are literally at the top of their respective trees damage-wise. Nothing hits harder or sustains better than a magblade or a stamblade since Morrowind. Sorcs and StamDKs are literally the only other classes which people take for DPS in trials and that's mostly for debuffing/buffing with Sunderflame, Attronach and Concussion.

Magblades and Stamblades are so far ahead of anything else in ranged and melee damage that they have practically caused the extinction of MagDK, MagPlar and StamPlar DDs from trials. And Wardens don't even get a look-in. But yeah, I'm sure NBs suck in PvE

Stamplar? Potl? But yeah, nbs are in a good spot, no buffs nor nerfs needed for them. Buff other classes, likely with more group utility

What about potl? It has a cap on damage, which a single DD will hit in 2-3 seconds. It's just a burst damage skill, not one that helps the group in any way. Bosses are already being fully penetrated by Torugs with Cursher, Sunder, NMG and Alkosh.

Stamblades have better sustain through Siphoning, better group utility through War Machine + Incap and are better in both overall damage and especially during the burn phase due to having an execute.

Potl boosts mag dps indirectly though a passive that boosts spell damage by 5% though the usage of a dawns wrath ability like potl. Useful for the mag dps. Also stamplars can use war machine too and have similar uptimes as nightblades with their cheap spear ult

JobooAGS

Maulkin wrote: »

JobooAGS wrote: »

Maulkin wrote: »

Bonzodog01 wrote: »

You should try taking a stamblade into a dungeon, any dungeon sometime. They will fail horribly, as they have no real sustain for handling the boss fights. Magblades do a lot better at this, but still lack the DPS in comparison.

The only place where Stamblades and magblades stand out is in PvP, and any competent mage can uncloak a stealthed nightblade with ease, at which point they become very squishy.

Not that I'm advocating any nerfs, but can only laugh at the complete lack of current meta knowledge.

In PvE both types of NB are literally at the top of their respective trees damage-wise. Nothing hits harder or sustains better than a magblade or a stamblade since Morrowind. Sorcs and StamDKs are literally the only other classes which people take for DPS in trials and that's mostly for debuffing/buffing with Sunderflame, Attronach and Concussion.

Magblades and Stamblades are so far ahead of anything else in ranged and melee damage that they have practically caused the extinction of MagDK, MagPlar and StamPlar DDs from trials. And Wardens don't even get a look-in. But yeah, I'm sure NBs suck in PvE

Stamplar? Potl? But yeah, nbs are in a good spot, no buffs nor nerfs needed for them. Buff other classes, likely with more group utility

What about potl? It has a cap on damage, which a single DD will hit in 2-3 seconds. It's just a burst damage skill, not one that helps the group in any way. Bosses are already being fully penetrated by Torugs with Cursher, Sunder, NMG and Alkosh.

Stamblades have better sustain through Siphoning, better group utility through War Machine + Incap and are better in both overall damage and especially during the burn phase due to having an execute.

You can have a stamplar running sunder and wm as a result

LiquidPony

I'm thinking that if we all start insulting each other, ZOS will have to come in and close down this unimaginably stupid thread.

OP, delete your account, go play a different game, and get bent.

Nihility42

LiquidPony wrote: »

I'm thinking that if we all start insulting each other, ZOS will have to come in and close down this unimaginably stupid thread.

OP, delete your account, go play a different game, and get bent.

I hate you. You shouldn't even be playing this game you dumb, meanie

Turbotailz

Nerfing down a class just so they can be on par with other classes isn't good logic. The only solution is to buff other classes because there might be something wrong with their tuning which is why it's leading to that result.

Radiance

Nerf this Thread.
Nerf your incessant cries for Nerfs.
Go Nerf yourselves...
NERF!!!


Expectation:




Reality:

WhitePawPrints

Another player who got killed by a nightblade and is demanding a nerf.

Nightblades have one thing going for them and that is cloak. Keep them out of cloak and that’s a dead nightblade. My nightblades stopped running cloak because they’re too dependent on it. Wardens are far stronger than a nightblade in PvP.

In PVE Sorcs still rain supreme, four years running. Night-blades do decent in trials now because of the buffs they receive from the group, but they suffer in dungeons and other small scale end game content.

Maulkin

JobooAGS wrote: »

Maulkin wrote: »

JobooAGS wrote: »

Maulkin wrote: »

Bonzodog01 wrote: »

You should try taking a stamblade into a dungeon, any dungeon sometime. They will fail horribly, as they have no real sustain for handling the boss fights. Magblades do a lot better at this, but still lack the DPS in comparison.

The only place where Stamblades and magblades stand out is in PvP, and any competent mage can uncloak a stealthed nightblade with ease, at which point they become very squishy.

Not that I'm advocating any nerfs, but can only laugh at the complete lack of current meta knowledge.

In PvE both types of NB are literally at the top of their respective trees damage-wise. Nothing hits harder or sustains better than a magblade or a stamblade since Morrowind. Sorcs and StamDKs are literally the only other classes which people take for DPS in trials and that's mostly for debuffing/buffing with Sunderflame, Attronach and Concussion.

Magblades and Stamblades are so far ahead of anything else in ranged and melee damage that they have practically caused the extinction of MagDK, MagPlar and StamPlar DDs from trials. And Wardens don't even get a look-in. But yeah, I'm sure NBs suck in PvE

Stamplar? Potl? But yeah, nbs are in a good spot, no buffs nor nerfs needed for them. Buff other classes, likely with more group utility

What about potl? It has a cap on damage, which a single DD will hit in 2-3 seconds. It's just a burst damage skill, not one that helps the group in any way. Bosses are already being fully penetrated by Torugs with Cursher, Sunder, NMG and Alkosh.

Stamblades have better sustain through Siphoning, better group utility through War Machine + Incap and are better in both overall damage and especially during the burn phase due to having an execute.

You can have a stamplar running sunder and wm as a result

You're not gonna have Stamplars running WM or Sunder. Sunder works for DKs because of Molten Armaments, for anyone else, heavy attack is a big loss of DPS (so is for DK, but it's small enough to be acceptable). Crescent Sweep is a waste of an ultie when talking about trial raids, Ballista is better for single target boss deeps and since you want two WM at most in a raid it works better for NBs cause the buff to damage from Incap is insane.

And finally the Illuminate passive for Minor Sorcery, I don't recall what the range of it is, but I remember in years past that it was not reliable to apply to your ranged DDs, which are all the magicka DDs. And there are no magicka melee DPS in raids atm.

lassitershawn

ArchMikem wrote: »

You didn't specify what exactly to bring down. Keep in mind Nightblades are pretty poor in end game PvE, we don't want to worsen that.

How on earth do 11 people agree with this? There is a reason people take like 6 NBs into Asylum +2. Note that I am NOT requesting a NB nerf in PvE or PvP (especially considering the difficulty of a NB PvE rotation), but just pointing out that this comment is completely false.

LiquidPony

Maulkin wrote: »

JobooAGS wrote: »

Maulkin wrote: »

Bonzodog01 wrote: »

You should try taking a stamblade into a dungeon, any dungeon sometime. They will fail horribly, as they have no real sustain for handling the boss fights. Magblades do a lot better at this, but still lack the DPS in comparison.

The only place where Stamblades and magblades stand out is in PvP, and any competent mage can uncloak a stealthed nightblade with ease, at which point they become very squishy.

Not that I'm advocating any nerfs, but can only laugh at the complete lack of current meta knowledge.

In PvE both types of NB are literally at the top of their respective trees damage-wise. Nothing hits harder or sustains better than a magblade or a stamblade since Morrowind. Sorcs and StamDKs are literally the only other classes which people take for DPS in trials and that's mostly for debuffing/buffing with Sunderflame, Attronach and Concussion.

Magblades and Stamblades are so far ahead of anything else in ranged and melee damage that they have practically caused the extinction of MagDK, MagPlar and StamPlar DDs from trials. And Wardens don't even get a look-in. But yeah, I'm sure NBs suck in PvE

Stamplar? Potl? But yeah, nbs are in a good spot, no buffs nor nerfs needed for them. Buff other classes, likely with more group utility

What about potl? It has a cap on damage, which a single DD will hit in 2-3 seconds. It's just a burst damage skill, not one that helps the group in any way. Bosses are already being fully penetrated by Torugs with Cursher, Sunder, NMG and Alkosh.

Stamblades have better sustain through Siphoning, better group utility through War Machine + Incap and are better in both overall damage and especially during the burn phase due to having an execute.

@Maulkin

Gotta say ... no. This is wrong.

You're not getting 100% uptime on all armor debuffs and regardless the debuffs you listed are: 2740 + 3010 + 2580 + 3440. With Major Fracture that's 17050. PotL is helpful to: cover debuff downtime, reduce the number of points necessary in Piercing/Spell Erosion, and of course for mag DPS who are a bit behind to begin with due to lack of debuff sets. And good stamplars will of course apply PotL to multiple targets that may not all be getting hit with all debuffs.

Using PotL also grants Minor Sorcery to the group.

And math aside, I see Mechanically Challenged and Dragon's Crest and Victorious Secret and Unchained Animals and a bunch of other guilds at the top of their respective leaderboards running Stamplars in raid, so to claim that stamplars are "extinct" in Trials is absolute nonsense.

And stamsorcs quite possibly have the worse group utility of any build. We bring them because single target is near the top of the pile and they've got much better AoE than a stamblade or stamDK.

Almost all of the top groups on the leaderboards have 3 templars in group:

https://esoleaderboards.com/trial/MOL

https://esoleaderboards.com/trial/HOF

https://esoleaderboards.com/trial/AA

etc.

lassitershawn

Minalan wrote: »

I wish the ‘nerf Sorc!’ Threads were met with this kind of vitriol!

If only. Kind of depressing to come back after a year to nerfed cfrags. Easily dodgeable, reflectable, and requires a proc. Facepalm. Not the dumbest nerf but still... Luckily virtually everything else about the game seems to have been improved though (except maybe poor MagDK in PvE).

TarrNokk

I compare my stamblade with my magsorc. Nb has no sustain, real bad survivability but high dps. You can do good dps in pve but in pvp you for and die and die, which is killing all fun. Magsorc kills and survives long time. Magsorc is par, Nb need some love.

Koronach

Knowledge wrote: »

When you take into account the Sorc, DK, Templar, and Warden they all feel roughly on par with each other or just needing a few tweaks to be evened out. On the other hand the Magblade and even Stamblade seem to be on an entirely different level. If they were brought down significantly while the other classes continued to receive minor tuning the game would be in a much better place balance wise.

Amdar_Godkiller

Stamblade is OP. Magblade is fairly well balanced. Some slight nerfs might be okay to just the stam morphs, and the cost of Incapacitating strike needs to be doubled or some of those buffs and debuffs need to be removed.

Anybody that thinks Stamblades, the only class that can perform really well in medium armor, is anything but the tankiest PVP stam class should just quit playing now. Every time they hit surprise attack, dealing high damage while removing 5K resistance and setting you off balance, they also get major ward and major resolve, and they can pair that with mirage, a magicka dump that gives them major evasion, minor ward and minor resolve. That's more mitigation than any set in the game gives by pressing two buttons (and bonus crit and max health). If you die quickly as a stamblade, it's only because you are absolute gutter trash.

Amdar_Godkiller

TarrNokk wrote: »

I compare my stamblade with my magsorc. Nb has no sustain, real bad survivability but high dps. You can do good dps in pve but in pvp you for and die and die, which is killing all fun. Magsorc kills and survives long time. Magsorc is par, Nb need some love.

Are you mental? Nightblade has passives that increase stam and mag recovery and they have leeching strikes, which allows them to be the only class that never needs to heavy attack. They have the best sustain by far of any class. Dark exchange is just a cheap skill that needs nerfing as well.

Thogard

Nightblades are really weak right now. We should give them access to major defile tied into a burst, two “reset” buttons, the ability to always be the initiator of any fight they want, a debuff that increases dmg taken by 20% on anyone they defile, great class damage passives, a guaranteed crit heal on their rally when used after cloak, a high delve gap closer that also debuffs, an insanely high dmg burst that procs after five light attacks (oh and minor berserk), and the best CC in the game (fear). We could also make it so that their escape skills cost Magicka so that they can alternate between those and roll dodge seamlessly.

But let’s not give them all those things because then it would be a broken class and we’d probably see close to 40% of the cyrodil population switch to it.