The only thing missing for class balance is a Nightblade nerf.

Vaoh

Stop these pointless nerf threads. NB is legit in a very good place and most importantly FUN.

Undo many of the nerfs and buff the other classes. Everyone wins.

If NB is nerfed they’ll undoubtedly overdue it and then lead, once again, to the endless nerf cycle.

BigBadVolk

Nihility42 wrote: »

LiquidPony wrote: »

I'm thinking that if we all start insulting each other, ZOS will have to come in and close down this unimaginably stupid thread.

OP, delete your account, go play a different game, and get bent.

I hate you. You shouldn't even be playing this game you dumb, meanie

I love you all... damn it I cant do anything left!

xeNNNNN

Knowledge wrote: »

Morgul667 wrote: »

Stop the nerfs but lol to people replying nightbaldes are in a bad spot

Just lol

One of the highest DPS in trials. Likely the strongest class in PVP.

strongest class in pvp? bahahahahhahahahahahahhahaha


Try "weakest".

LordSemaj

Thogard wrote: »

Nightblades are really weak right now. We should give them access to major defile tied into a burst, two “reset” buttons, the ability to always be the initiator of any fight they want, a debuff that increases dmg taken by 20% on anyone they defile, great class damage passives, a guaranteed crit heal on their rally when used after cloak, a high delve gap closer that also debuffs, an insanely high dmg burst that procs after five light attacks (oh and minor berserk), and the best CC in the game (fear). We could also make it so that their escape skills cost Magicka so that they can alternate between those and roll dodge seamlessly.

But let’s not give them all those things because then it would be a broken class and we’d probably see close to 40% of the cyrodil population switch to it.

So what you did was list all of the Nightblade advantages in a one-sided comparison with nothing to compare them to. Who is their opponent, an inanimate wooden log?

JobooAGS

Maulkin wrote: »

JobooAGS wrote: »

Maulkin wrote: »

JobooAGS wrote: »

Maulkin wrote: »

Bonzodog01 wrote: »

You should try taking a stamblade into a dungeon, any dungeon sometime. They will fail horribly, as they have no real sustain for handling the boss fights. Magblades do a lot better at this, but still lack the DPS in comparison.

The only place where Stamblades and magblades stand out is in PvP, and any competent mage can uncloak a stealthed nightblade with ease, at which point they become very squishy.

Not that I'm advocating any nerfs, but can only laugh at the complete lack of current meta knowledge.

In PvE both types of NB are literally at the top of their respective trees damage-wise. Nothing hits harder or sustains better than a magblade or a stamblade since Morrowind. Sorcs and StamDKs are literally the only other classes which people take for DPS in trials and that's mostly for debuffing/buffing with Sunderflame, Attronach and Concussion.

Magblades and Stamblades are so far ahead of anything else in ranged and melee damage that they have practically caused the extinction of MagDK, MagPlar and StamPlar DDs from trials. And Wardens don't even get a look-in. But yeah, I'm sure NBs suck in PvE

Stamplar? Potl? But yeah, nbs are in a good spot, no buffs nor nerfs needed for them. Buff other classes, likely with more group utility

What about potl? It has a cap on damage, which a single DD will hit in 2-3 seconds. It's just a burst damage skill, not one that helps the group in any way. Bosses are already being fully penetrated by Torugs with Cursher, Sunder, NMG and Alkosh.

Stamblades have better sustain through Siphoning, better group utility through War Machine + Incap and are better in both overall damage and especially during the burn phase due to having an execute.

You can have a stamplar running sunder and wm as a result

You're not gonna have Stamplars running WM or Sunder. Sunder works for DKs because of Molten Armaments, for anyone else, heavy attack is a big loss of DPS (so is for DK, but it's small enough to be acceptable). Crescent Sweep is a waste of an ultie when talking about trial raids, Ballista is better for single target boss deeps and since you want two WM at most in a raid it works better for NBs cause the buff to damage from Incap is insane.

And finally the Illuminate passive for Minor Sorcery, I don't recall what the range of it is, but I remember in years past that it was not reliable to apply to your ranged DDs, which are all the magicka DDs. And there are no magicka melee DPS in raids atm.

Stam sorcs beneifit from heavies too with bound arraments, so why arent they a canidate? and why 2 at the most? That covers 2 people + at most 4 others which is 6 total, and even so, one or more of those 4 people could be the tanks, which means it is wasted. With 3 wms or more, you reliabilly hit the dps with the buff more.

Tryxus

xeNNNNN wrote: »

Knowledge wrote: »

Morgul667 wrote: »

Stop the nerfs but lol to people replying nightbaldes are in a bad spot

Just lol

One of the highest DPS in trials. Likely the strongest class in PVP.

strongest class in pvp? bahahahahhahahahahahahhahaha


Try "weakest".

Exaggerate much?

JobooAGS

JobooAGS wrote: »

Maulkin wrote: »

JobooAGS wrote: »

Maulkin wrote: »

JobooAGS wrote: »

Maulkin wrote: »

Bonzodog01 wrote: »

You should try taking a stamblade into a dungeon, any dungeon sometime. They will fail horribly, as they have no real sustain for handling the boss fights. Magblades do a lot better at this, but still lack the DPS in comparison.

The only place where Stamblades and magblades stand out is in PvP, and any competent mage can uncloak a stealthed nightblade with ease, at which point they become very squishy.

Not that I'm advocating any nerfs, but can only laugh at the complete lack of current meta knowledge.

In PvE both types of NB are literally at the top of their respective trees damage-wise. Nothing hits harder or sustains better than a magblade or a stamblade since Morrowind. Sorcs and StamDKs are literally the only other classes which people take for DPS in trials and that's mostly for debuffing/buffing with Sunderflame, Attronach and Concussion.

Magblades and Stamblades are so far ahead of anything else in ranged and melee damage that they have practically caused the extinction of MagDK, MagPlar and StamPlar DDs from trials. And Wardens don't even get a look-in. But yeah, I'm sure NBs suck in PvE

Stamplar? Potl? But yeah, nbs are in a good spot, no buffs nor nerfs needed for them. Buff other classes, likely with more group utility

What about potl? It has a cap on damage, which a single DD will hit in 2-3 seconds. It's just a burst damage skill, not one that helps the group in any way. Bosses are already being fully penetrated by Torugs with Cursher, Sunder, NMG and Alkosh.

Stamblades have better sustain through Siphoning, better group utility through War Machine + Incap and are better in both overall damage and especially during the burn phase due to having an execute.

You can have a stamplar running sunder and wm as a result

You're not gonna have Stamplars running WM or Sunder. Sunder works for DKs because of Molten Armaments, for anyone else, heavy attack is a big loss of DPS (so is for DK, but it's small enough to be acceptable). Crescent Sweep is a waste of an ultie when talking about trial raids, Ballista is better for single target boss deeps and since you want two WM at most in a raid it works better for NBs cause the buff to damage from Incap is insane.

And finally the Illuminate passive for Minor Sorcery, I don't recall what the range of it is, but I remember in years past that it was not reliable to apply to your ranged DDs, which are all the magicka DDs. And there are no magicka melee DPS in raids atm.

Stam sorcs beneifit from heavies too with bound arraments, so why arent they a canidate? and why 2 at the most? That covers 2 people + at most 4 others which is 6 total, and even so, one or more of those 4 people could be the tanks, which means it is wasted. With 3 wms or more, you reliabilly hit the dps with the buff more.

And it is 28m I suspect, never had an jssue with giving the buff to mag dps as my stamplar

Smmokkee

Not to long ago people were laughing at nbs.. now they are one of the strongest classes and barely *** has changed. Weird how that works..

If you think nb is the strongest class in pvp I know you suck. Lol.

LordSemaj

Smmokkee wrote: »

Not to long ago people were laughing at nbs.. now they are one of the strongest classes and barely *** has changed. Weird how that works..

The difference between worthless and priceless is the breadth of a hair.

Thogard

LordSemaj wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

Nightblades are really weak right now. We should give them access to major defile tied into a burst, two “reset” buttons, the ability to always be the initiator of any fight they want, a debuff that increases dmg taken by 20% on anyone they defile, great class damage passives, a guaranteed crit heal on their rally when used after cloak, a high delve gap closer that also debuffs, an insanely high dmg burst that procs after five light attacks (oh and minor berserk), and the best CC in the game (fear). We could also make it so that their escape skills cost Magicka so that they can alternate between those and roll dodge seamlessly.

But let’s not give them all those things because then it would be a broken class and we’d probably see close to 40% of the cyrodil population switch to it.

So what you did was list all of the Nightblade advantages in a one-sided comparison with nothing to compare them to. Who is their opponent, an inanimate wooden log?

Well given the current population trends, their opponent would almost certainly be another stamblade.

So yeah it's perfectly balanced.

JobooAGS

JobooAGS wrote: »

JobooAGS wrote: »

Maulkin wrote: »

JobooAGS wrote: »

Maulkin wrote: »

JobooAGS wrote: »

Maulkin wrote: »

Bonzodog01 wrote: »

You should try taking a stamblade into a dungeon, any dungeon sometime. They will fail horribly, as they have no real sustain for handling the boss fights. Magblades do a lot better at this, but still lack the DPS in comparison.

The only place where Stamblades and magblades stand out is in PvP, and any competent mage can uncloak a stealthed nightblade with ease, at which point they become very squishy.

Not that I'm advocating any nerfs, but can only laugh at the complete lack of current meta knowledge.

In PvE both types of NB are literally at the top of their respective trees damage-wise. Nothing hits harder or sustains better than a magblade or a stamblade since Morrowind. Sorcs and StamDKs are literally the only other classes which people take for DPS in trials and that's mostly for debuffing/buffing with Sunderflame, Attronach and Concussion.

Magblades and Stamblades are so far ahead of anything else in ranged and melee damage that they have practically caused the extinction of MagDK, MagPlar and StamPlar DDs from trials. And Wardens don't even get a look-in. But yeah, I'm sure NBs suck in PvE

Stamplar? Potl? But yeah, nbs are in a good spot, no buffs nor nerfs needed for them. Buff other classes, likely with more group utility

What about potl? It has a cap on damage, which a single DD will hit in 2-3 seconds. It's just a burst damage skill, not one that helps the group in any way. Bosses are already being fully penetrated by Torugs with Cursher, Sunder, NMG and Alkosh.

Stamblades have better sustain through Siphoning, better group utility through War Machine + Incap and are better in both overall damage and especially during the burn phase due to having an execute.

You can have a stamplar running sunder and wm as a result

You're not gonna have Stamplars running WM or Sunder. Sunder works for DKs because of Molten Armaments, for anyone else, heavy attack is a big loss of DPS (so is for DK, but it's small enough to be acceptable). Crescent Sweep is a waste of an ultie when talking about trial raids, Ballista is better for single target boss deeps and since you want two WM at most in a raid it works better for NBs cause the buff to damage from Incap is insane.

And finally the Illuminate passive for Minor Sorcery, I don't recall what the range of it is, but I remember in years past that it was not reliable to apply to your ranged DDs, which are all the magicka DDs. And there are no magicka melee DPS in raids atm.

Stam sorcs beneifit from heavies too with bound arraments, so why arent they a canidate? and why 2 at the most? That covers 2 people + at most 4 others which is 6 total, and even so, one or more of those 4 people could be the tanks, which means it is wasted. With 3 wms or more, you reliabilly hit the dps with the buff more.

And it is 28m I suspect, never had an jssue with giving the buff to mag dps as my stamplar

The main reason why I suggested stamplars to have sunderflame is they do enough heavies in their rotation to allow for it while buffing the group

LordSemaj

Thogard wrote: »

LordSemaj wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

Nightblades are really weak right now. We should give them access to major defile tied into a burst, two “reset” buttons, the ability to always be the initiator of any fight they want, a debuff that increases dmg taken by 20% on anyone they defile, great class damage passives, a guaranteed crit heal on their rally when used after cloak, a high delve gap closer that also debuffs, an insanely high dmg burst that procs after five light attacks (oh and minor berserk), and the best CC in the game (fear). We could also make it so that their escape skills cost Magicka so that they can alternate between those and roll dodge seamlessly.

But let’s not give them all those things because then it would be a broken class and we’d probably see close to 40% of the cyrodil population switch to it.

So what you did was list all of the Nightblade advantages in a one-sided comparison with nothing to compare them to. Who is their opponent, an inanimate wooden log?

Well given the current population trends, their opponent would almost certainly be another stamblade.

So yeah it's perfectly balanced.

Amdar_Godkiller

Thogard wrote: »

Nightblades are really weak right now. We should give them access to major defile tied into a burst, two “reset” buttons, the ability to always be the initiator of any fight they want, a debuff that increases dmg taken by 20% on anyone they defile, great class damage passives, a guaranteed crit heal on their rally when used after cloak, a high delve gap closer that also debuffs, an insanely high dmg burst that procs after five light attacks (oh and minor berserk), and the best CC in the game (fear). We could also make it so that their escape skills cost Magicka so that they can alternate between those and roll dodge seamlessly.

But let’s not give them all those things because then it would be a broken class and we’d probably see close to 40% of the cyrodil population switch to it.

LMAO! Love this!

One Nightblade ability is equal to like 4 abilities from any other class. That's the entire issue in a nutshell.

Smmokkee

Let me be real, you guys just suck.

Jhalin

Half the NB abilities are stilled bugged, so why is everyone so butt hurt about NBs finally being competitive? It's been years since they could contend with other dps builds.

Aliyavana

hahahhahaha

Olen_Mikko

Slot inner light, wear full impenetrable heavy armor and you're already rendered NB attacks useless.

I mean this is because you were surprise butthumped by NB, right?

LiquidPony

Nihility42 wrote: »

LiquidPony wrote: »

I'm thinking that if we all start insulting each other, ZOS will have to come in and close down this unimaginably stupid thread.

OP, delete your account, go play a different game, and get bent.

I hate you. You shouldn't even be playing this game you dumb, meanie

Why, you stuck-up, half-witted, scruffy-looking nerf herder!

LordSemaj

LiquidPony wrote: »

Nihility42 wrote: »

LiquidPony wrote: »

I'm thinking that if we all start insulting each other, ZOS will have to come in and close down this unimaginably stupid thread.

OP, delete your account, go play a different game, and get bent.

I hate you. You shouldn't even be playing this game you dumb, meanie

Why, you stuck-up, half-witted, scruffy-looking nerf herder!

lassitershawn

Cenom wrote: »

For sure Nightblades are the new Sorcerers from One Tamriel but improved... Even the game play is easier now, and no other magicka class can come close. Every class can barelly hit 33k self on 6m skeleton... Nbs can hit 41k...

Not really sure about Stam particulars as I don’t play Stam or have many friends that do (100% sure they beat 33k easily though) but as far as mag is concerned this post is not true. I’m a Breton mS and have been pulling low-high 37s with ilambris since the off balance nerf on a 6m with no cheese. Zaan would probably be 38s. There are plenty of sorcs better than me and a good Altmer should be able to get into the 40s at present. Mag Temps aren’t quite as good but I have a friend doing 37 selfs on the 6m and another friend doing 36. Again, no cheese. Only classes that might be struggling to do 33k on a 6m is Mag DK and Warden, assuming BiS heat and a solid rotation.

Basically, no NB nerf needed, especially considering their complex rotations. Buff Mag DK tho.

oXI_Viper_IXo

Vapirko

No nerfs, l2p.

xeNNNNN

Tryxus wrote: »

xeNNNNN wrote: »

Knowledge wrote: »

Morgul667 wrote: »

Stop the nerfs but lol to people replying nightbaldes are in a bad spot

Just lol

One of the highest DPS in trials. Likely the strongest class in PVP.

strongest class in pvp? bahahahahhahahahahahahhahaha


Try "weakest".

Exaggerate much?

Not really no, I laughed rather hard when I read it.

thedude33

SydneyGrey wrote: »

Stop asking for nerfs, people.
Threads like this are the reason we've had nothing but nerfs to all classes for the past year. Stop this nonsense.

You aren't feeling it, man. First thing you do is make a post complaining about an over powered class. That they need a nerf. A few days later you need to make a post asking ZoS why they continually nerf things. Then a few days later you make a post asking ZoS why they don't listen to peoples suggestions.

Get with the program imo

xeNNNNN

Jhalin wrote: »

Half the NB abilities are stilled bugged, so why is everyone so butt hurt about NBs finally being competitive? It's been years since they could contend with other dps builds.

Because sorc mains dont like being outdone in any capacity.

I still remember the overreaction of the curse nerf which got reverted because every sorc flocked too the forums to moan. Which was rediculous. Pretty much puts ZoS in the position of being unable to nerf sorc in any way at all due to them not wanting such a large outcry. Its sad.

Thogard

To be honest, though, stamblades are really OP in certain, limited settings, such as ganking, or soloing around in BGs.

They absolutely crumble when put into group vs group situations... all of their abilities are single target.

That is balance in a sense.. but i'd rather they have their single target DPS toned down slightly (read; incap) and their group utility increased significantly.

Zer0oo

The balance team destroyed most of the other classes with the morrowind update and force many in a heavy attack playstyle. Mag nb just benefited the most for still being able to use a more fun light attack rotation and the adjustments to merciless(you can fire more than one per cast) made this class just really fun to play. I really wish they would buff other classes and playstyles for a more fun and balanced game. They could for example lower the cost of all spamable skills.

But my hope for changes for a more fun and rewarding combat is quite low.

ak_pvp

magictucktuck wrote: »

ak_pvp wrote: »

NB is the most balanced class in game. Though 100% dot supression seems a bit strong in general, should be 50% and no reveal. Dots suck ow.

I main a NB and i would not mind this IF we got purge back on dark cloak. but maybe we only purge 2 dots and take 50 percent from the rest.

Yeah. That is fair. One cloak is more offensive, and the other is more relieve pressure.

Oreyn_Bearclaw

ArchMikem wrote: »

You didn't specify what exactly to bring down. Keep in mind Nightblades are pretty poor in end game PvE, we don't want to worsen that.

Troll level: Expert

Since launch, nightblades have been the best designed class across the board. They have certainly not always been the most powerful, but nightblade hasnt changed a lot other than a few tweaks here and there, mostly to mericless resolve (which is currently broken, but that's a different thread). The have by far the most flexability of any class in terms of playstle, whether you need a ranged magic or an AOE stamina spammable, you got it. Good access to buffs, sustain, etc. They have a skill for most things.

I agree 100% that Nightblade is across the board the best class in the game currently, but it is also true that they have the most difficult play-style/rotation of any class:

End game PVE (talking Pushing trial Scores):

Ranged DPS: BIS
Melee DPS: BIS
Tank: Not Viable
Healer not viable

PVE 4 Man content, casual trials:
Same except tank and healers become a viable options. There are arguments to be made for them being one of the best healing options for high damage groups, that are looking for more DPS than heals from their healer.

PVE Solo Content:
Were BIS for VMA until they broke merciless, but all magic classes can break 600k in the right hands (Cough LZH Cough).

PVP
Stamina: IMO they are second best in open world behind Stam Warden, but between stam NB, Stam Warden, and Stamplar, I think you are splitting hairs (personally stamplar is my toughest counter)

Magic: Best bombers, but not anywhere near the best for open world IMO. Not that they are bad, I just dont think they standout as much. I pretty much only die to a magic NB when they pull off a good bomb.

All that said, nerf is not the answer. It is not like this class has been the recipient of grotesque buffs over the years, they have just been hit with the nerf hammer the least. I think this is arguably the one class that they got right essentially out of the gates. The much better option would be to use NB as a model to fix the other classes and bring them up to scratch.

For what its worth, I main a mag sorc in PVP, a stam sorc for melee DPS, a magblade (recently) for ranged DPS, a DK for tanking, and a Templar for healing. Only class I dont actively play is a warden, who despite their uselessness as a PVE DPS, are a pretty strong class across the board.

King_Thelon

xeNNNNN wrote: »

Because sorc mains dont like being outdone in any capacity.

I still remember the overreaction of the curse nerf which got reverted because every sorc flocked too the forums to moan. Which was rediculous. Pretty much puts ZoS in the position of being unable to nerf sorc in any way at all due to them not wanting such a large outcry. Its sad.

BEHOLD

The state of the game rests not
In the hands of its creators,
But in the minds of the young,
The untested
And the untrue.

Cry for nerfs younglings!
And you will reap what you've sown!
All classes shall perish together
As men shall turn to dust.
If thou hast understanding,
Hear thou this:
Harken to the truth of these words:

You know not when your nerfs arrive;
They come as thieves in the night.
Be dressed and ready with your lamps aflame,
Like servants waiting for their master.

It will be good for those servants
Whose master finds them ready,
Even if he comes amidst the darkest night.

For if the master had known
The hour of the thief,
He would never leave the home,
Nor wash the lamb's blood from its door.