anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »
anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »Morgha_Kul wrote: »As I've said before, would you rather sell one item at $1000 or ten items at $100?
I've answered that one at least 10 times, so I won't do it again. Suffice to say that you only need to read a basic book about economics to realize that your reasoning works only if the price/demand elasticity of the product is 1. In other words, nothing tells you that a 10x lower price gives you a 10x higher sales volume.
ZOS has data to back up their own pricing decisions - which you don't. All you're doing is disguising your own frustration as a buyer as an "advice" for ZOS, which probably knows MUCH BETTER than you what's good for them and what's not.
Furthermore, you're (general you for people in this thread, maybe not you specifically) are making a moral judgement of it. STOP ! This isn't about anything vital like food & shelter, this is about a video game, and anyone not having it is not going to die, they're only going to be frustrated like children who cannot accept that they acn't have everything they want, right here and right now.
ZOS is REALLY fair when it comes to the crown store : nothing in there is mandatory to play and enjoy the game to the fullest, and the base game is practically free to play these days. So please stop the entitled whining.
anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »But stop coming in this thread and continuing to try to make people feel guilty about wanting more reasonable prices on crown store items because they should care about real world issues instead.
The problem is not me making them feel guilty, it's those people who make it sound like a general "social equity" issue.
Vital things need to be available for everyone. Video games are not a vital thing. Period.
Even if you don't relate it to "real life", it's not a vital issue. You can play ESO without all this stuff, and you know it. ZOS is being fair and you're still not happy in spite of them being fair.
After all, they *could* make their game P2W and make MUCH MORE money out of it. Yet they don't.
Besides, liking the game doesn't make you entitled to get extra stuff cheap.
Morgha_Kul wrote: »Make note of this: WE WANT THE GAME TO DO WELL.
Many MANY people have given direct (as direct as you can get when comparing similar products in similar games) evidence on why they believe these items are overpriced and not just "wahhh, I don't want to pay".
Morgha_Kul wrote: »The point is to make the pricing such that you maximize your happy customers and minimize your unhappy customers while still making a profit. My ADVICE is to do what will promote the growth and longevity of the company and the game. My (and so many others') frustration is evidence that their policy is NOT doing that.
Morgha_Kul wrote: »Again, they're charging $15 for a Mars bar. That's not normal, and that level of greed is so drastic that it becomes a moral/ethical concern.
Morgha_Kul wrote: »There is so much stuff going on in the world that it helps no one to shut down conversations about any issue whether it is considered big or small by the listeners and speakers.
anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »The world is full of big and small issues, and all of them deserve to be spoken about. The price of fluff in a video game is no issue at all and therefore shouldn't be referred to as one, because it diminishes all others, intended or not.
anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »They aren't charging 15$ for a Mars Bar, they're charging 1500 crowns for an outfit slot for one character. Your analogy is manipulative, and calling it an ethical issue is totally out of place. It's their pricing policy, period.
anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »When you go into a shop and find something you like, but it's too expensive in your opinion, what do you do ? Harass the vendor by explaning to him how he should price his stuff differently, how he should run his business, how unsocial and greedy he is ? Or do you simply leave the shop and go on your merry way ?
anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »Besides, we (you, me and everyone outside ZOS) lack the most basic data needed to make such assumptions, let alone give any advice.
anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »The world is full of big and small issues, and all of them deserve to be spoken about. The price of fluff in a video game is no issue at all and therefore shouldn't be referred to as one, because it diminishes all others, intended or not.
What are you doing here then? Why do you keep coming here tu shut down some pricing discussion where's the world of issues out there?
lordrichter wrote: »anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »The world is full of big and small issues, and all of them deserve to be spoken about. The price of fluff in a video game is no issue at all and therefore shouldn't be referred to as one, because it diminishes all others, intended or not.
What are you doing here then? Why do you keep coming here tu shut down some pricing discussion where's the world of issues out there?
Does not matter why. Why is anyone here. They speak a lot of truth, and that is all that really matters.
This thread will probably be closed, as it is starting to turn nasty, and that is a shame. The thread needs to stay open.
anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »Morgha_Kul wrote: »Make note of this: WE WANT THE GAME TO DO WELL.
So does ZOS, and the game IS doing extremely well, which to a large extent shows that they don't need any advice at all, nor deserve criticism.
Besides, we (you, me and everyone outside ZOS) lack the most basic data needed to make such assumptions, let alone give any advice.Many MANY people have given direct (as direct as you can get when comparing similar products in similar games) evidence on why they believe these items are overpriced and not just "wahhh, I don't want to pay".
1/ This is exactly why it is irrelevant : it refers to "similar games", not ESO.
2/ This is exactly what it is : "Wahhh I don't want to pay" in disguise. And this is what irks me.
When you go into a shop and find something you like, but it's too expensive in your opinion, what do you do ? Harass the vendor by explaning to him how he should price his stuff differently, how he should run his business, how unsocial and greedy he is ? Or do you simply leave the shop and go on your merry way ?
ZOS may want, need and ask for feedback when it comes to gameplay and game design. But pricing is their thing.Morgha_Kul wrote: »The point is to make the pricing such that you maximize your happy customers and minimize your unhappy customers while still making a profit. My ADVICE is to do what will promote the growth and longevity of the company and the game. My (and so many others') frustration is evidence that their policy is NOT doing that.
Your frustration is evidence of nothing. You may as well be the occasional unhappy customer when most other people happily buy (or don't buy but are still happy players).Morgha_Kul wrote: »Again, they're charging $15 for a Mars bar. That's not normal, and that level of greed is so drastic that it becomes a moral/ethical concern.
They aren't charging 15$ for a Mars Bar, they're charging 1500 crowns for an outfit slot for one character. Your analogy is manipulative, and calling it an ethical issue is totally out of place. It's their pricing policy, period.Morgha_Kul wrote: »There is so much stuff going on in the world that it helps no one to shut down conversations about any issue whether it is considered big or small by the listeners and speakers.
The world is full of big and small issues, and all of them deserve to be spoken about. The price of fluff in a video game is no issue at all and therefore shouldn't be referred to as one, because it diminishes all others, intended or not.
Morgha_Kul wrote: »$1500 is almost my entire monthly income. Think about that. They expect that I should be able to pay for a subscription AND lay out anything approaching that? Is video gaming only for the extremely well off?
theplague4u wrote: »Having money doesn't make you happy or make you win. If anything you're doomed to lose as making friends is near impossible in RL since you're treated in a superior manner and not as an equal. .../...
Don't hate on those that have more than you, they're people too. Also don't hate the game for catering to those with money to help pay for the daily operations and salaries that makes it possible to have ESO.../...
Money can't buy everything or take your problems away.
Morgha_Kul wrote: »anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »Morgha_Kul wrote: »As I've said before, would you rather sell one item at $1000 or ten items at $100?
I've answered that one at least 10 times, so I won't do it again. Suffice to say that you only need to read a basic book about economics to realize that your reasoning works only if the price/demand elasticity of the product is 1. In other words, nothing tells you that a 10x lower price gives you a 10x higher sales volume.
ZOS has data to back up their own pricing decisions - which you don't. All you're doing is disguising your own frustration as a buyer as an "advice" for ZOS, which probably knows MUCH BETTER than you what's good for them and what's not.
Furthermore, you're (general you for people in this thread, maybe not you specifically) are making a moral judgement of it. STOP ! This isn't about anything vital like food & shelter, this is about a video game, and anyone not having it is not going to die, they're only going to be frustrated like children who cannot accept that they acn't have everything they want, right here and right now.
ZOS is REALLY fair when it comes to the crown store : nothing in there is mandatory to play and enjoy the game to the fullest, and the base game is practically free to play these days. So please stop the entitled whining.
Almost 40 years of sales experience tells me all I need to know about the economics of it. The numbers I used were for illustration (which I thought was obvious), and were not themselves the point. AGAIN, it's a point you seem to have missed. It's about the CUSTOMERS. If you have ticked off customers, they will spread their displeasure, to the detriment of your business. On the other hand, having happy customers will allow the business to grow.
The point is to make the pricing such that you maximize your happy customers and minimize your unhappy customers while still making a profit. My ADVICE is to do what will promote the growth and longevity of the company and the game. My (and so many others') frustration is evidence that their policy is NOT doing that.
There is actually a kind of moral dimension to this too, in that GREED is often regarded as a moral issue. Again, they're charging $15 for a Mars bar. That's not normal, and that level of greed is so drastic that it becomes a moral/ethical concern. In essence, if they're prepared to do THIS, how much further will they be willing to go? Where does the gouging end?
Fair is a matter of some opinion. Is it fair to charge $15 for a Mars bar? Is it fair to put so much of the most desirable content of a game we're already paying for behind outlandishly huge price walls, excluding much of the playerbase? You may think so. You're that one happy customer. There are nine unhappy customers who are going to undermine the business. THEY should be a concern.
Don't characterize any argument posed here as "whining." Infantilization is invalid argument. We have valid concerns, both for our own interests (of course), but also for the future of the game. Make note of this: WE WANT THE GAME TO DO WELL. We like it here. We grow concerned when they do things that will potentially harm the game's longevity, and we will complain when they do so.
Morgha_Kul wrote: »So... I went over to Star Wars: The Old Republic Online, and looked to see how much it would cost for an outfit slot for a single character. It's 120 cartel coins.
Now, 250 cartel coins costs $2.99. That means a 120 cartel coins would cost around $1.50 (actually slightly less).
It is 1500 crowns for an outfit slot for a single character here at ESO. For me to get 1500 crowns costs $18.99.
So, in one game it's $1.50. Here, it's $18.99. That's rather a staggering difference for exactly the same service. To make it match up in value, they would need to make them around 150-200 crowns for a single character outfit slot. THAT I would be willing to pay. I'll never EVER pay that ridiculous price, more than 1200% higher than other games.
(that would be like paying about $15 for a Mars bar)
My fundamental issue with ESO is that as entertainment, it cost more than real life if you are player who is into collecting, achievements or role play.
My fundamental issue with ESO is that as entertainment, it cost more than real life if you are player who is into collecting, achievements or role play.
Yup.
All too often we see folks excusing industry practices when it comes to how they are monetizing their games, especially when those microtransactions are "just cosmetic." This overlooks and dismisses the importance aesthetics have to certain types of gamers and that their proclivities are being deliberately exploited so the company can make heaps of money. This game is unbelievably expensive if you place a big importance of aesthetics for roleplaying or simply for collecting. It's way beyond being about "well, companies need to make money" and very much into the "companies want all the money ever and will exploit their customers as much as they can get away with to do so" territory. Consumer protections are drafted and put into law because of precisely these sorts of things, and the days for which video game producers can get away with these rackets are numbered.
My fundamental issue with ESO is that as entertainment, it cost more than real life if you are player who is into collecting, achievements or role play.
Yup.
All too often we see folks excusing industry practices when it comes to how they are monetizing their games, especially when those microtransactions are "just cosmetic." This overlooks and dismisses the importance aesthetics have to certain types of gamers and that their proclivities are being deliberately exploited so the company can make heaps of money. This game is unbelievably expensive if you place a big importance of aesthetics for roleplaying or simply for collecting. It's way beyond being about "well, companies need to make money" and very much into the "companies want all the money ever and will exploit their customers as much as they can get away with to do so" territory. Consumer protections are drafted and put into law because of precisely these sorts of things, and the days for which video game producers can get away with these rackets are numbered.
^ 100%
A player who is into homes, mounts, and outfits (role playing...or just likes to collect) could easily instead purchase a mild hi fidelity audio set up that will last decades. A single crown exclusive house with 2 motifs and a couple of outfit slots will get your started on a stellar set of cookware that again, will last for decades. I have spent more in this game then I did for my custom leather sofa that is 5 years old now and looks brand new. In game related terms the price of a house in eso which functionally has very little use could get you 3-4 GOOD game titles at retail prices. Go indi and you could pick up 6-8 games.
And don't even get me started on the customer abuse. There is not another industry in the world that can take advantage of customers like video game companies are now. Its really sad because developers are asked now to make games where fun takes the back seat. The good news is people are waking up, its not hard to see it. Just look at your bank account draining to have "fun" in this game and its obvious what is going on.
Morgha_Kul wrote: »So... I went over to Star Wars: The Old Republic Online, and looked to see how much it would cost for an outfit slot for a single character. It's 120 cartel coins.
Now, 250 cartel coins costs $2.99. That means a 120 cartel coins would cost around $1.50 (actually slightly less).
It is 1500 crowns for an outfit slot for a single character here at ESO. For me to get 1500 crowns costs $18.99.
So, in one game it's $1.50. Here, it's $18.99. That's rather a staggering difference for exactly the same service. To make it match up in value, they would need to make them around 150-200 crowns for a single character outfit slot. THAT I would be willing to pay. I'll never EVER pay that ridiculous price, more than 1200% higher than other games.
(that would be like paying about $15 for a Mars bar)
ESO is to the very day a pay-to-play game, not a "practically free to play" game. It has free guest events, it has discounts but nothing changed in the core design or the way ESO is marketed as a pay-to-play game.anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »the base game is practically free to play these days.
ESO is to the very day a pay-to-play game, not a "practically free to play" game. It has free guest events, it has discounts but nothing changed in the core design or the way ESO is marketed as a pay-to-play game.anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »the base game is practically free to play these days.
All the stuff ESO throws on top with their crown store, ESO+, DLCs and chapters including the pricing they set just shows that the company behind the game tries to make the most profit out of the game as possible. It mixes up all the various forms of monetization in the market and brings them together in one game. It's up to them to do it, it's up to us to agree with it or not and to make our own decisions upon that.
If we consider this practice fair or not is on us. You may consider it fair, others may see it differently for their own respectable reasons.
My fundamental issue with ESO is that as entertainment, it cost more than real life if you are player who is into collecting, achievements or role play.
Yup.
All too often we see folks excusing industry practices when it comes to how they are monetizing their games, especially when those microtransactions are "just cosmetic." This overlooks and dismisses the importance aesthetics have to certain types of gamers and that their proclivities are being deliberately exploited so the company can make heaps of money. This game is unbelievably expensive if you place a big importance of aesthetics for roleplaying or simply for collecting. It's way beyond being about "well, companies need to make money" and very much into the "companies want all the money ever and will exploit their customers as much as they can get away with to do so" territory. Consumer protections are drafted and put into law because of precisely these sorts of things, and the days for which video game producers can get away with these rackets are numbered.
^ 100%
A player who is into homes, mounts, and outfits (role playing...or just likes to collect) could easily instead purchase a mild hi fidelity audio set up that will last decades. A single crown exclusive house with 2 motifs and a couple of outfit slots will get your started on a stellar set of cookware that again, will last for decades. I have spent more in this game then I did for my custom leather sofa that is 5 years old now and looks brand new. In game related terms the price of a house in eso which functionally has very little use could get you 3-4 GOOD game titles at retail prices. Go indi and you could pick up 6-8 games.
And don't even get me started on the customer abuse. There is not another industry in the world that can take advantage of customers like video game companies are now. Its really sad because developers are asked now to make games where fun takes the back seat. The good news is people are waking up, its not hard to see it. Just look at your bank account draining to have "fun" in this game and its obvious what is going on.
The wool has certainly been pulled off of my eyes. I owe someone on this board for that - and the content creator they linked to that has produced many videos going into the predatory marketing of video games over the last console generation or so.
My fundamental issue with ESO is that as entertainment, it cost more than real life if you are player who is into collecting, achievements or role play.
Yup.
All too often we see folks excusing industry practices when it comes to how they are monetizing their games, especially when those microtransactions are "just cosmetic." This overlooks and dismisses the importance aesthetics have to certain types of gamers and that their proclivities are being deliberately exploited so the company can make heaps of money. This game is unbelievably expensive if you place a big importance of aesthetics for roleplaying or simply for collecting. It's way beyond being about "well, companies need to make money" and very much into the "companies want all the money ever and will exploit their customers as much as they can get away with to do so" territory. Consumer protections are drafted and put into law because of precisely these sorts of things, and the days for which video game producers can get away with these rackets are numbered.
^ 100%
A player who is into homes, mounts, and outfits (role playing...or just likes to collect) could easily instead purchase a mild hi fidelity audio set up that will last decades. A single crown exclusive house with 2 motifs and a couple of outfit slots will get your started on a stellar set of cookware that again, will last for decades. I have spent more in this game then I did for my custom leather sofa that is 5 years old now and looks brand new. In game related terms the price of a house in eso which functionally has very little use could get you 3-4 GOOD game titles at retail prices. Go indi and you could pick up 6-8 games.
And don't even get me started on the customer abuse. There is not another industry in the world that can take advantage of customers like video game companies are now. Its really sad because developers are asked now to make games where fun takes the back seat. The good news is people are waking up, its not hard to see it. Just look at your bank account draining to have "fun" in this game and its obvious what is going on.
The wool has certainly been pulled off of my eyes. I owe someone on this board for that - and the content creator they linked to that has produced many videos going into the predatory marketing of video games over the last console generation or so.
@Starlock - Do you feel comfortable sharing that link?
OrdoHermetica wrote: »They're most likely referring to Jim Sterling. Jim's very much an acquired taste, but he does good work, and he's relentless. He's been digging into this for years now (so hard to link to a single video), and shows no sign of slowing down. I highly recommend you give his stuff a look, and if he rubs you the wrong way at first, I'd encourage you to stick with him for a bit. His style grows on you, or at least it did with me.
https://www.youtube.com/user/JimSterling
OrdoHermetica wrote: »They're most likely referring to Jim Sterling. Jim's very much an acquired taste, but he does good work, and he's relentless. He's been digging into this for years now (so hard to link to a single video), and shows no sign of slowing down. I highly recommend you give his stuff a look, and if he rubs you the wrong way at first, I'd encourage you to stick with him for a bit. His style grows on you, or at least it did with me.
https://www.youtube.com/user/JimSterling
This is great! Thank you.
OrdoHermetica wrote: »They're most likely referring to Jim Sterling. Jim's very much an acquired taste, but he does good work, and he's relentless. He's been digging into this for years now (so hard to link to a single video), and shows no sign of slowing down. I highly recommend you give his stuff a look, and if he rubs you the wrong way at first, I'd encourage you to stick with him for a bit. His style grows on you, or at least it did with me.
https://www.youtube.com/user/JimSterling
This is great! Thank you.
Yes, that’s one of them. There are several others who comment on the general issue as well, though.
Sandnessen wrote: »Regarding the OP.. I might not get it, but why would people need/want 8 more outfit slots on their characters?
Many MANY people have given direct (as direct as you can get when comparing similar products in similar games) evidence on why they believe these items are overpriced and not just "wahhh, I don't want to pay".
Morgha_Kul wrote: »The point is to make the pricing such that you maximize your happy customers and minimize your unhappy customers while still making a profit. My ADVICE is to do what will promote the growth and longevity of the company and the game. My (and so many others') frustration is evidence that their policy is NOT doing that.
Morgha_Kul wrote: »Again, they're charging $15 for a Mars bar. That's not normal, and that level of greed is so drastic that it becomes a moral/ethical concern.
Morgha_Kul wrote: »There is so much stuff going on in the world that it helps no one to shut down conversations about any issue whether it is considered big or small by the listeners and speakers.
It definitely can get expensive but every game has their gold sinks, and to be honest once you hit a point in this game there are not alot of them and gold becomes just a thing.TigressCreed wrote: »The idea behind the outfit system at its core was amazing I love being able to wear heavy armour but appear to be wearing light, etc. BUT once again money hunger ruined it with outrageous prices for outfit styles and it’s pretty ridiculous it costs up to 6k gold to choose a staff style...I often pay 15-20k gold to rearrange my outfit.