1500 crowns per outfit slot (1 slot) just under $1200 for every slot

JusticeSouldier

it should be account-wide slot.
Or it should be Warning text at Good in crown Store that it's only for one character.
@ZOS_JessicaFolsom , @ZOS_GinaBruno WHERE IS THE INFORMATION THAT IT'S ONLY FOR ONE CHARACTER?

Elsonso

Morgha_Kul wrote: »

So... I went over to Star Wars: The Old Republic Online, and looked to see how much it would cost for an outfit slot for a single character. It's 120 cartel coins.

Now, 250 cartel coins costs $2.99. That means a 120 cartel coins would cost around $1.50 (actually slightly less).

It is 1500 crowns for an outfit slot for a single character here at ESO. For me to get 1500 crowns costs $18.99.

So, in one game it's $1.50. Here, it's $18.99. That's rather a staggering difference for exactly the same service. To make it match up in value, they would need to make them around 150-200 crowns for a single character outfit slot. THAT I would be willing to pay. I'll never EVER pay that ridiculous price, more than 1200% higher than other games.

(that would be like paying about $15 for a Mars bar)

Yup. Internally, someone is powerfully afraid of the outfit system being overused. They want it to be a feature of the game, so they can market it and sell us motifs, but they don't want us using it too much. That is the only reason that I can come up with for the pricing strategy. It has to cost as much as a custom costume specific to a single character, which is what it is. Thus, it is 1500 crowns per character.

To that, I just say "fine". I just want them to change the description so that it is clear what people are buying. It is obvious that they are opposed to that, and I am sure they have "reasons". I doubt any of them would make me change my mind. Some might make me laugh, though.

Michae

What bugs me with this is that when I delete a character I lose the 1500 crown outfit slot. For rpers that switch around characters from time to time this is unacceptable. How come you can buy a costume for 350 crowns and use it on all characters and yet someone thought that 1500 crown character specific slot is acceptable? That's just silly.

Morgul667

lordrichter wrote: »

Morgha_Kul wrote: »

So... I went over to Star Wars: The Old Republic Online, and looked to see how much it would cost for an outfit slot for a single character. It's 120 cartel coins.

Now, 250 cartel coins costs $2.99. That means a 120 cartel coins would cost around $1.50 (actually slightly less).

It is 1500 crowns for an outfit slot for a single character here at ESO. For me to get 1500 crowns costs $18.99.

So, in one game it's $1.50. Here, it's $18.99. That's rather a staggering difference for exactly the same service. To make it match up in value, they would need to make them around 150-200 crowns for a single character outfit slot. THAT I would be willing to pay. I'll never EVER pay that ridiculous price, more than 1200% higher than other games.

(that would be like paying about $15 for a Mars bar)

Yup. Internally, someone is powerfully afraid of the outfit system being overused. They want it to be a feature of the game, so they can market it and sell us motifs, but they don't want us using it too much. That is the only reason that I can come up with for the pricing strategy. It has to cost as much as a custom costume specific to a single character, which is what it is. Thus, it is 1500 crowns per character.

To that, I just say "fine". I just want them to change the description so that it is clear what people are buying. It is obvious that they are opposed to that, and I am sure they have "reasons". I doubt any of them would make me change my mind. Some might make me laugh, though.

I thought the same

They advertised millions of combos but maybe their server cannot take it

Starlock

Morgul667 wrote: »

lordrichter wrote: »

Morgha_Kul wrote: »

So... I went over to Star Wars: The Old Republic Online, and looked to see how much it would cost for an outfit slot for a single character. It's 120 cartel coins.

Now, 250 cartel coins costs $2.99. That means a 120 cartel coins would cost around $1.50 (actually slightly less).

It is 1500 crowns for an outfit slot for a single character here at ESO. For me to get 1500 crowns costs $18.99.

So, in one game it's $1.50. Here, it's $18.99. That's rather a staggering difference for exactly the same service. To make it match up in value, they would need to make them around 150-200 crowns for a single character outfit slot. THAT I would be willing to pay. I'll never EVER pay that ridiculous price, more than 1200% higher than other games.

(that would be like paying about $15 for a Mars bar)

Yup. Internally, someone is powerfully afraid of the outfit system being overused. They want it to be a feature of the game, so they can market it and sell us motifs, but they don't want us using it too much. That is the only reason that I can come up with for the pricing strategy. It has to cost as much as a custom costume specific to a single character, which is what it is. Thus, it is 1500 crowns per character.

To that, I just say "fine". I just want them to change the description so that it is clear what people are buying. It is obvious that they are opposed to that, and I am sure they have "reasons". I doubt any of them would make me change my mind. Some might make me laugh, though.

I thought the same

They advertised millions of combos but maybe their server cannot take it

If that was the issue they could have limited the maximum number of outfit slots to a smaller value than it is currently. Or they could spend money on more server space (and you can be certain they have PLENTY of money to do this).

No, the outfit system is yet another example of something that should have been an accessible quality of life feature that was instead transformed into a vehicle for predatory microtransactions. It doesn't get much more predatory than to falsely advertise the product being sold. There are plenty of other examples of scummy microtransactions in this game, but this one really takes the cake because it's blatantly false/misleading advertising on top of being incredibly overpriced like everything in their stupid cash shop is.

Nirntrotter

Honestly, if they made just one or two extra outfit slots (per character) free with ESO+ that would be such a compelling perk. (Next to the crafting bag of course.)

Elsonso

ethuiliel wrote: »

Honestly, if they made just one or two extra outfit slots (per character) free with ESO+ that would be such a compelling perk. (Next to the crafting bag of course.)

This would probably make ESO Plus too expensive for them and they would have to raise the price. Right now, they can sit back, put their feet up on the conference room table, and say "we give them Crowns each month for ESO Plus, they can use that for slots".

Starlock

lordrichter wrote: »

ethuiliel wrote: »

Honestly, if they made just one or two extra outfit slots (per character) free with ESO+ that would be such a compelling perk. (Next to the crafting bag of course.)

This would probably make ESO Plus too expensive for them and they would have to raise the price.

If by "too expensive for them" you mean "cut into their insane profit margins," then sure. There is little doubt that the overwhelming majority of their profits come from their cash shop racket, not subscriptions. Subscriptions still exist to keep people playing the game and to instill a sense of personal commitment. Continuing to play the game regularly keeps people exposed to the psychological manipulations that pressure players to use their cash shop. Like buying overpriced outfit slots, motifs, and... well... frankly anything in the cash shop. It's all overpriced.

Wayshuba

Morgha_Kul wrote: »

So... I went over to Star Wars: The Old Republic Online, and looked to see how much it would cost for an outfit slot for a single character. It's 120 cartel coins.

Now, 250 cartel coins costs $2.99. That means a 120 cartel coins would cost around $1.50 (actually slightly less).

It is 1500 crowns for an outfit slot for a single character here at ESO. For me to get 1500 crowns costs $18.99.

So, in one game it's $1.50. Here, it's $18.99. That's rather a staggering difference for exactly the same service. To make it match up in value, they would need to make them around 150-200 crowns for a single character outfit slot. THAT I would be willing to pay. I'll never EVER pay that ridiculous price, more than 1200% higher than other games.

(that would be like paying about $15 for a Mars bar)

A few things you missed with outfit slots in SWTOR that will make what ZoS is doing look even more ludicrous.

For 400 Cartel Coins, you can unlock a slot on EVERY character including new ones you create. So basically for about $3.50 FOR EVERY CHARACTER IN YOUR ACCOUNT.

Furthermore, you can also buy your slots with Credits (SWTORs in game gold). Last time I played it was 15,000 credits for one character slot and 40,000 credits for a slot across your whole account. Versus ESO gold, that is like 1500 gold for one slot and 4,000 gold across your account.

Lastly, SWTOR pricing is pretty standard to other MMOs like LOTRO, et al.

So, not only is the price that ZoS stuck on this so totally out there is isn't even funny (actually, it makes it look like whoever priced this didn't know what they were doing or that ZoS is trying to rip people off who don't know better), they also did not give any way of getting these with in game currency like every other MMO offers as well.

theplague4u

That's why I've spent close to $1500 in the last 3 weeks. Everything is quite expensive. It's like $100 for a nice house that's fully furnished. What am I going to do with an empty house? I can craft sleeping bags and cups.

Michae

theplague4u wrote: »

That's why I've spent close to $1500 in the last 3 weeks. Everything is quite expensive. It's like $100 for a nice house that's fully furnished. What am I going to do with an empty house? I can craft sleeping bags and cups.

1500$? Damn, son.

Morgha_Kul

$1500 is almost my entire monthly income. Think about that. They expect that I should be able to pay for a subscription AND lay out anything approaching that? Is video gaming only for the extremely well off?

Michae

I'll give you one better, 1500$ is more than 1,5 times my monthly income. And I'm earning quite well in my country.

Starlock

Morgha_Kul wrote: »

$1500 is almost my entire monthly income. Think about that. They expect that I should be able to pay for a subscription AND lay out anything approaching that? Is video gaming only for the extremely well off?

No, and that's part of the problem.

One of the major reasons I have serious bones to pick with publishers that allow predatory microtransactions are the very real social costs of doing so. People who do not have the disposable income to waste on overpriced cosmetics or gamble boxes can and do compromise their finances and lives with this stuff. Even if we aren't talking about the extreme cases of this, the fact that publishers deliberately design their games to manipulate people into wasteful nickel and dime spending is just disgusting. They don't care about the consumer. Or rather, they don't care about the consumer beyond sucking them dry for as much income as they can... regardless of how this might impact the consumer's personal lives and finances.

anitajoneb17_ESO

Starlock wrote: »

One of the major reasons I have serious bones to pick with publishers that allow predatory microtransactions are the very real social costs of doing so. People who do not have the disposable income to waste on overpriced cosmetics or gamble boxes can and do compromise their finances and lives with this stuff. Even if we aren't talking about the extreme cases of this, the fact that publishers deliberately design their games to manipulate people into wasteful nickel and dime spending is just disgusting. They don't care about the consumer. Or rather, they don't care about the consumer beyond sucking them dry for as much income as they can... regardless of how this might impact the consumer's personal lives and finances.

Come on now... people are entirely, solely and completey responsible for whatever money they take out of their wallets to buy something. It's not like it's a tax, nor that anyone is pointing a gun at them for doing so. If you can't afford to play videogames, then don't. Simple as that. And that doesn't even apply to ESO, because you can enjoy the game for pretty much NOTHING (10 USD purchase of the base game) and you don't need any of the crown store stuff at all. You get one outfit slot for free, that lets you enjoy the outfit system. You don't NEED any more slots, you can buy more for convenience, but you don't have to.

It's not the company's job to take care of every single individual financial situation.

I really dislike people calling "misery" for fluff like that because it diminishes the voices of those who are truly in need of vital things like health care, food and shelter.

anitajoneb17_ESO

Morgha_Kul wrote: »

$1500 is almost my entire monthly income. Think about that. They expect that I should be able to pay for a subscription AND lay out anything approaching that? Is video gaming only for the extremely well off?

No, they don't expect anything. They OFFER it. That's different. Don't want it ? Can't afford it ? Think it's not worth the price ? Then don't buy it. You can still play the game and enjoy it. Fair game.

JusticeSouldier

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Starlock wrote: »

One of the major reasons I have serious bones to pick with publishers that allow predatory microtransactions are the very real social costs of doing so. People who do not have the disposable income to waste on overpriced cosmetics or gamble boxes can and do compromise their finances and lives with this stuff. Even if we aren't talking about the extreme cases of this, the fact that publishers deliberately design their games to manipulate people into wasteful nickel and dime spending is just disgusting. They don't care about the consumer. Or rather, they don't care about the consumer beyond sucking them dry for as much income as they can... regardless of how this might impact the consumer's personal lives and finances.

Come on now... people are entirely, solely and completey responsible for whatever money they take out of their wallets to buy something. It's not like it's a tax, nor that anyone is pointing a gun at them for doing so. If you can't afford to play videogames, then don't. Simple as that. And that doesn't even apply to ESO, because you can enjoy the game for pretty much NOTHING (10 USD purchase of the base game) and you don't need any of the crown store stuff at all. You get one outfit slot for free, that lets you enjoy the outfit system. You don't NEED any more slots, you can buy more for convenience, but you don't have to.

It's not the company's job to take care of every single individual financial situation.

I really dislike people calling "misery" for fluff like that because it diminishes the voices of those who are truly in need of vital things like health care, food and shelter.

Want to add that it's discusting thing when some business completly built at froud things (slot games, alcohol, cigarettes, drugs, lethal weapons etc) and they should turn back giant payments into society to compensate somehow damage they done with their activity.

But, at the same time, consumers have own responsibility for their lives and wallets.
Not matter they accept this or not.
it's a life - if u choose to jump down from the bridge - others can save your life risking own ones, but they don't have to do that, only if decided to help.

If to say about eso, i can't say that it's built on that.
But, crown crates system is a form of gambling.
And seems they invest into crown store developing more time and money that into game design, combat balance, bug fixes.

And, the way of how they sell "Additional outfit slot" is froud (i don't care about price - here any word in description that this slot is only for one character at account, it's like to sell boots like new ones, without mentioning that they are second hand).

Morgha_Kul

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Morgha_Kul wrote: »

$1500 is almost my entire monthly income. Think about that. They expect that I should be able to pay for a subscription AND lay out anything approaching that? Is video gaming only for the extremely well off?

No, they don't expect anything. They OFFER it. That's different. Don't want it ? Can't afford it ? Think it's not worth the price ? Then don't buy it. You can still play the game and enjoy it. Fair game.

You're missing the point. By making the costs so high, they are excluding a large portion of their customer base. That's costing them money, but also costing them goodwill.

As I've said before, would you rather sell one item at $1000 or ten items at $100? The income is the same, but in the latter case you have TEN happy customers instead of ONE (and nine unhappy customers). Word of mouth is POWERFUL, so when you have lots of happy customers, they will generate MORE revenue by spreading the good word. However, when you have unhappy customers, the opposite will happen. They will discourage others from coming to the game, which hinders potential income.

Charging huge prices now only provides for NOW. Charging lower prices allows for growth and greater income in the long term.

anitajoneb17_ESO

Morgha_Kul wrote: »

As I've said before, would you rather sell one item at $1000 or ten items at $100?

I've answered that one at least 10 times, so I won't do it again. Suffice to say that you only need to read a basic book about economics to realize that your reasoning works only if the price/demand elasticity of the product is 1. In other words, nothing tells you that a 10x lower price gives you a 10x higher sales volume.
ZOS has data to back up their own pricing decisions - which you don't. All you're doing is disguising your own frustration as a buyer as an "advice" for ZOS, which probably knows MUCH BETTER than you what's good for them and what's not.

Furthermore, you're (general you for people in this thread, maybe not you specifically) are making a moral judgement of it. STOP ! This isn't about anything vital like food & shelter, this is about a video game, and anyone not having it is not going to die, they're only going to be frustrated like children who cannot accept that they acn't have everything they want, right here and right now.

ZOS is REALLY fair when it comes to the crown store : nothing in there is mandatory to play and enjoy the game to the fullest, and the base game is practically free to play these days. So please stop the entitled whining.

Starlock

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Starlock wrote: »

One of the major reasons I have serious bones to pick with publishers that allow predatory microtransactions are the very real social costs of doing so. People who do not have the disposable income to waste on overpriced cosmetics or gamble boxes can and do compromise their finances and lives with this stuff. Even if we aren't talking about the extreme cases of this, the fact that publishers deliberately design their games to manipulate people into wasteful nickel and dime spending is just disgusting. They don't care about the consumer. Or rather, they don't care about the consumer beyond sucking them dry for as much income as they can... regardless of how this might impact the consumer's personal lives and finances.

Come on now... people are entirely, solely and completey responsible for whatever money they take out of their wallets to buy something.

Sorry, but this is simply not the case.

Most of human behavior boils down to responses to the environment. If you manipulate the environment in certain ways, you can absolutely increase the probability of particular types of behavior. It's why influencers like the multi-billion dollar advertising industry (among other forms of influencing) even exist. Influencers exist because they work. And the best influencers have a deep understanding of human psychology - in particular the cognitive shorthands all of us use to shortcut day-to-day decision making - to manipulate people to do what they want them to do. If you do not think this is real, I strongly encourage you to look into it.

I understand wanting to follow the "I'm self sufficient and totally responsible for everything I do" ideology, but that simply is not the reality of things. Human behavior is not difficult to manipulate. It is done constantly. And video game corporations have - for around the past decade now - deliberately designed games in ways that prey on human psychology to manipulate consumers into microtransaction purchases. This is simply a fact and it is easy to point at examples once you learn more about it and know what you are looking at.

Note that not all microtransactions in video games are predatory or coercive in nature. However, whoever is in charge in $enimax has really stepped up their game in this department over the past few years. And not in a good way.

anitajoneb17_ESO

@Starlock :

Go undertake action against manipulative advertisements strategies (that is, all kinds of advertising) : I'll support you with no limits.
Go demonstrate and get active against all those systems that want us to consume more, pollute more, destroy more, produce more : I'll support you with no limits.

But a video game ?
Choose the right fight, (wo)man...

And by the way... if you really want to fight against the practices of the video game industry, the first step is (perhaps) not to play their games at all. I am not saying you shouldn't play, I'm just hinting at the FACT that, by complaining about them but still playing their game, you comfort them in the very strategy you mean to fight against, here.
There are some things you can't live without (depending on where you live), like food, shelter, health care, clothes, education, washing powder, etc... so you must fight them while still buying from them. But that's not the case for video games.
Players are manipulated for the most part, but they are willingly manipulated and very much responsible for that.
I've been playing ESO for FIVE YEARS and haven't yet spend a dime on it that wasn't willfully spent. And that isn't much, since I've only TWICE bought crowns beyond my ESO+ allowance. And believe me, I'm not more resistant to manipulation than anyone else out there.

heaven13

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Morgha_Kul wrote: »

As I've said before, would you rather sell one item at $1000 or ten items at $100?

I've answered that one at least 10 times, so I won't do it again. Suffice to say that you only need to read a basic book about economics to realize that your reasoning works only if the price/demand elasticity of the product is 1. In other words, nothing tells you that a 10x lower price gives you a 10x higher sales volume.
ZOS has data to back up their own pricing decisions - which you don't. All you're doing is disguising your own frustration as a buyer as an "advice" for ZOS, which probably knows MUCH BETTER than you what's good for them and what's not.

Furthermore, you're (general you for people in this thread, maybe not you specifically) are making a moral judgement of it. STOP ! This isn't about anything vital like food & shelter, this is about a video game, and anyone not having it is not going to die, they're only going to be frustrated like children who cannot accept that they acn't have everything they want, right here and right now.

ZOS is REALLY fair when it comes to the crown store : nothing in there is mandatory to play and enjoy the game to the fullest, and the base game is practically free to play these days. So please stop the entitled whining.

It's a bit hypocritical to pass your own moral judgment on others because they're focusing on video games instead of important issues like food and shelter, pollution, etc. This is a hobby that we all enjoy; we wouldn't be here otherwise. We should be able to voice our opinion on crown store pricing, content available, etc. If you enjoy it, great. If you're fine with these prices, fantastic! But stop coming in this thread and continuing to try to make people feel guilty about wanting more reasonable prices on crown store items because they should care about real world issues instead. One has no bearing on the other and is irrelevant to the topic at hand.

anitajoneb17_ESO

heaven13 wrote: »

But stop coming in this thread and continuing to try to make people feel guilty about wanting more reasonable prices on crown store items because they should care about real world issues instead.

The problem is not me making them feel guilty, it's those people who make it sound like a general "social equity" issue.
Vital things need to be available for everyone. Video games are not a vital thing. Period.
Even if you don't relate it to "real life", it's not a vital issue. You can play ESO without all this stuff, and you know it. ZOS is being fair and you're still not happy in spite of them being fair.
After all, they *could* make their game P2W and make MUCH MORE money out of it. Yet they don't.

Besides, liking the game doesn't make you entitled to get extra stuff cheap.

Beardimus

How has this thread run on so long with so many comments!

Crazy!

Keep fighting the fight people, i don't have a view on this one !

Starlock

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

@Starlock :

Go undertake action against manipulative advertisements strategies (that is, all kinds of advertising) : I'll support you with no limits.
Go demonstrate and get active against all those systems that want us to consume more, pollute more, destroy more, produce more : I'll support you with no limits.

On what basis do you assume that I don't already do these things? Furthermore, why would it even be relevant if I do or do not do these things? Would that in any way diminish the point (or the value of) speaking out against predatory industry practices?

I don't think so. Especially when the industry is counting on these sorts of things becoming so normalized that people don't question them. It makes it easier for the industry to fleece people for their cash.

anitajoneb17_ESO

Starlock wrote: »

On what basis do you assume that I don't already do these things?

On the basis that you're doing it FOR A VIDEO GAME.
If you'd actually get involved in fighting for "serious real life" causes you wouldn't dare putting a video game on equal grounds with them.

It doesn't diminish nor empower your opinion whether you do these things or not. Whether you do it or not, I still think it is BS to call big names like "equity", needs", "human rights" or whatever big, meaningful causes in RL, because it's simply absurd, entitled and obscene when applied to a video game. And it's isulting to the people really fighting for those causes.

Someone in this thread asked whether video games are just for a rich "elite" and if that was right. Don't you realize how obscene this is ? If you have electricity, a permanent internet connection, a gaming PC or a console, and free time on your hands, then you belong to the 10% of extremely rich people on this earth. Yet you complain about an optional cosmetic item in your video game being too expensive for you and this being socially unfair...? Come on.

Starlock

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Starlock wrote: »

On what basis do you assume that I don't already do these things?

On the basis that you're doing it FOR A VIDEO GAME.
If you'd actually get involved in fighting for "serious real life" causes you wouldn't dare putting a video game on equal grounds with them.

Care to quote where I said that predatory microtransactions in video games are on "equal ground" with what you consider to be "serious real life" causes?

Dear lords. Can we knock it off with the strawperson nonsense, please?

anitajoneb17_ESO

Starlock wrote: »

Care to quote where I said that predatory microtransactions in video games are on "equal ground" with what you consider to be "serious real life" causes?

here :

Starlock wrote: »

One of the major reasons I have serious bones to pick with publishers that allow predatory microtransactions are the very real social costs of doing so. People who do not have the disposable income to waste on overpriced cosmetics or gamble boxes can and do compromise their finances and lives with this stuff. Even if we aren't talking about the extreme cases of this, the fact that publishers deliberately design their games to manipulate people into wasteful nickel and dime spending is just disgusting. They don't care about the consumer. Or rather, they don't care about the consumer beyond sucking them dry for as much income as they can... regardless of how this might impact the consumer's personal lives and finances.

and here :

Starlock wrote: »

Most of human behavior boils down to responses to the environment. If you manipulate the environment in certain ways, you can absolutely increase the probability of particular types of behavior. It's why influencers like the multi-billion dollar advertising industry (among other forms of influencing) even exist. Influencers exist because they work. And the best influencers have a deep understanding of human psychology - in particular the cognitive shorthands all of us use to shortcut day-to-day decision making - to manipulate people to do what they want them to do. If you do not think this is real, I strongly encourage you to look into it.

I understand wanting to follow the "I'm self sufficient and totally responsible for everything I do" ideology, but that simply is not the reality of things. Human behavior is not difficult to manipulate. It is done constantly. And video game corporations have - for around the past decade now - deliberately designed games in ways that prey on human psychology to manipulate consumers into microtransaction purchases. This is simply a fact and it is easy to point at examples once you learn more about it and know what you are looking at.

Starlock

*sigh*

You are reading words. I don't think you are understanding what they mean, sir. I'm done. Sorry. I don't have the patience for this. Pointing out there are real social costs for those who spend too much on video game microtransactions in no way is implying it is on equal ground with whatever "serious issues" are your pet causes. Nor does talking about some really basic behavioral psychology and marketing 101.

anitajoneb17_ESO

Starlock wrote: »

*sigh*

You are reading words. I don't think you are understanding what they mean, sir. I'm done. Sorry. I don't have the patience for this.

Fine. Have a good night. (I'm a "she", btw).