The Gold Road Chapter – which includes the Scribing system – and Update 42 is now available to test on the PTS! You can read the latest patch notes here: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/656454/
When are the races getting any balance changes?
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LadyNalcarya✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I wish we could just choose racials regardless of the race. I really like argonian passives, but argonian chars are so creepy... I tried really hard to like them but I just cant. Uncanny valley effect is a ***.
Dro-m'Athra Destroyer | Divayth Fyr's Coadjutor | Voice of Reason
PC/EU1 -
Feanor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Nords should receive a buff. No doubt about it. Frost resistance and the damage mitigation are not exactly useful.Main characters: Feanor the Believer - AD Altmer mSorc - AR 46 - Flawless Conqueror (PC EU)Idril Arnanor - AD Altmer mSorc - CP 217 - Stormproof (PC NA)Other characters:Necrophilius Killgood - DC Imperial NecromancerFearscales - AD Argonian Templar - Stormproof (healer)Draco Imperialis - AD Imperial DK (tank)Cabed Naearamarth - AD Dunmer mDKValirion Willowthorne - AD Bosmer stamBladeTuruna - AD Altmer magBladeKheled Zaram - AD Redguard stamDKKibil Nala - AD Redguard stamSorc - StormproofYavanna Kémentárí - AD Breton magWardenAzog gro-Ghâsh - EP Orc stamWardenVidar Drakenblød - DC Nord mDKMarquis de Peyrac - DC Breton mSorc - StormproofRawlith Khaj'ra - AD Khajiit stamWardenTu'waccah - AD Redguard StamplarAll chars 50 @ CP 1700+. Playing and enjoying PvP with RdK mostly on PC EU.1 -
FearlessOne_2014✭✭✭✭✭
✭Joy_Division wrote: »Yamenstein wrote: »Joy_Division wrote: »Vance.Frost wrote: »We can hope.
I really hope not...it really messes with people who have already maxed characters with the race in mind. Unless they have race change tokens for everyone I hope they don't change them, would be very unfair to current players.
What is unfair to players would be to leave races as they are in it's current state. It's BiS for mag/stam DK (arguably), mag/stam Warden (arguably for stam, no discussion for mag), magblade (literally no brainer), magplar (same, you're shooting yourself in the leg if you don't run it).
That's 6 classes that have the BiS race choice an argonian for pvp. Please tell me again what's unfair? Argonian is the single most overpowered race to ever touch this game, not even redguard in it's prime was this broken (PvP wise).
Just take away the offstat regen from argonian already and make the healing bonus smaller.
Lets get one thing clear...I personally feel races are TOTALLY unbalanced. Totally. No argument. None. Right now there are like 4 races I would play and that's it.
Having said that...IT DOES NOT MATTER! Too many players have already put in a ton of hours into min/maxing their toons based on the races as they are now. Again how is it fair to those players that you suggest we suddenly change them? You made the choice to play whatever ace you are playing and you played the game, but you had a choice. You basically are telling everyone in the game to go screw themselves because you want a race makeover.
Again if they did a free race change token on every toon it wouldn't matter 1 bit, but that is not going to happen. Until they do that is is simply not a fair thing to do to players in the game.
There is no "fair". You want those people stuck playing a carp race like Nord to be at a mechanical disadvantage. Why do I have to buy a race change token?
There is "fair". If Nords get a buff then you get something, that's good for you. What if you had paid to make your character a Nord because of those passives and then they nerfed it? You going to go buy a token to change that now ?
It's not fair until Nords and other crap races get a buff. By your logic, ZoS should never adjust OP classes, abilities, or anything else.Joy_Division wrote: »Vance.Frost wrote: »We can hope.
I really hope not...it really messes with people who have already maxed characters with the race in mind. Unless they have race change tokens for everyone I hope they don't change them, would be very unfair to current players.
What is unfair to players would be to leave races as they are in it's current state. It's BiS for mag/stam DK (arguably), mag/stam Warden (arguably for stam, no discussion for mag), magblade (literally no brainer), magplar (same, you're shooting yourself in the leg if you don't run it).
That's 6 classes that have the BiS race choice an argonian for pvp. Please tell me again what's unfair? Argonian is the single most overpowered race to ever touch this game, not even redguard in it's prime was this broken (PvP wise).
Just take away the offstat regen from argonian already and make the healing bonus smaller.
Lets get one thing clear...I personally feel races are TOTALLY unbalanced. Totally. No argument. None. Right now there are like 4 races I would play and that's it.
Having said that...IT DOES NOT MATTER! Too many players have already put in a ton of hours into min/maxing their toons based on the races as they are now. Again how is it fair to those players that you suggest we suddenly change them? You made the choice to play whatever ace you are playing and you played the game, but you had a choice. You basically are telling everyone in the game to go screw themselves because you want a race makeover.
Again if they did a free race change token on every toon it wouldn't matter 1 bit, but that is not going to happen. Until they do that is is simply not a fair thing to do to players in the game.
There is no "fair". You want those people stuck playing a carp race like Nord to be at a mechanical disadvantage. Why do I have to buy a race change token?
Because you CHOSE nord maybe? Wow what a concept...being stuck with your decision...
You could always blame your parents of course...
Yeah, I CHOSE to be a Nord way back in March 2014 when the race and game mechanics were completely different.
.Edited by FearlessOne_2014 on February 7, 2018 5:46PM0 -
FearlessOne_2014✭✭✭✭✭
✭SidewalkChalk5 wrote: »No. You are ignoring the fact that loads of people have respecced to superior races since race change was introduced. To negatively alter the product after-the-fact would show serious disrespect to paying customers. After choosing to charge ridiculous prices for race change, any substantial changes would be a deeply unethical business practice on ZOS' part.
I'm just going to throw in my two cents here. I choose Redguard back when racial passives was in a completely different state. After buying 4 racial tokens to change 4 of my characters to Redguard. ZO$ completely nerfed my race.
However you didn't see me cry one bit over these nerfs. Because i know that the game would be in a better health because of it. Because I'm not a self entitled prick who feels I'm the only one who matters.
Where was the bloody tears when Redguard got nerfed hard. Honestly almost everyone that plays Cyrodiil and can use their brains. Know that Argonian is way more broken now then Redguard ever was. Even in it's prime.
It's simple really if my Redguard a race that wasn't nearly as overtuned as Argonian is now, can get the nerf bat. Then Argonians should be no difference.
I support big nerfs to Argonians to put them on par with the other races. Why do Argonians get free tripots on top of pots, plus huge heal gains, on top of high health bonuses?
Either Argonian needs big nerfs to be brought down to the level of other races. Or the other races need huge buffs to be brought up to the level that Argonian is atm.
1 -
pelle412✭✭✭✭If I buy a brand new Dodge Viper with a V10 engine, I'm totally OK with Chrysler coming to replace that with a V6 engine whenever they want. Just sayin'.1 -
Subversus✭✭✭✭✭
✭I can't believe you people. You sound like total hypocrites. You don't want classes to be balanced (argonian nerfed, that is) because of PVE? FRICKIN PVE?
You've been doing the same frickin scripted fights since cp cap was at 561. Literally the same thing over and over again, and you want to risk PvP balance where EVERY SINGLE encounter is different, even against the same person BECAUSE YOU MIGHT LOSE 2K TOTAL DPS OR HPS?
Lmfao give me a damn break with "don't ruin PvE because of PvP". PvE is a *** joke in this game, don't claim like removing argonian off pool regen or max hp would hurt you a single bit.
Please gtfo if you're a casual, race has no effect on you.5 -
Grimm13✭✭✭✭✭
✭I would rather see Race as a cosmetic choice, then you select from a packaged group which bonuses you want to apply to your character. Makes it a totally balance choice for all players this way.
Yes, all players would be given a required re-roll. It;s been done in the past with a major change.
Play as you want, would be more true.4 -
Subversus✭✭✭✭✭
✭I would rather see Race as a cosmetic choice, then you select from a packaged group which bonuses you want to apply to your character. Makes it a totally balance choice for all players this way.
Yes, all players would be given a required re-roll. It;s been done in the past with a major change.
Play as you want, would be more true.
Yes yes yes yes yes yes this a million times!!!!
I'm mostly salty because I'm forced to play an ugly ass lizard when I'd much rather play a majestic high elf or a blonde breton... Imagine what it's like to be forced into playing ugly races when all your characters are females....2 -
Kwik1✭✭✭✭
There really wasn't much different from Nords now and Nords then. They are still decent and have never been top tier for races. Don't act like they are suddenly bad or that they were the best when you chose it, because they weren't. From the beginning they were OK and thats it, just like now they are still OK.Joy_Division wrote: »Yamenstein wrote: »Joy_Division wrote: »Vance.Frost wrote: »We can hope.
I really hope not...it really messes with people who have already maxed characters with the race in mind. Unless they have race change tokens for everyone I hope they don't change them, would be very unfair to current players.
What is unfair to players would be to leave races as they are in it's current state. It's BiS for mag/stam DK (arguably), mag/stam Warden (arguably for stam, no discussion for mag), magblade (literally no brainer), magplar (same, you're shooting yourself in the leg if you don't run it).
That's 6 classes that have the BiS race choice an argonian for pvp. Please tell me again what's unfair? Argonian is the single most overpowered race to ever touch this game, not even redguard in it's prime was this broken (PvP wise).
Just take away the offstat regen from argonian already and make the healing bonus smaller.
Lets get one thing clear...I personally feel races are TOTALLY unbalanced. Totally. No argument. None. Right now there are like 4 races I would play and that's it.
Having said that...IT DOES NOT MATTER! Too many players have already put in a ton of hours into min/maxing their toons based on the races as they are now. Again how is it fair to those players that you suggest we suddenly change them? You made the choice to play whatever ace you are playing and you played the game, but you had a choice. You basically are telling everyone in the game to go screw themselves because you want a race makeover.
Again if they did a free race change token on every toon it wouldn't matter 1 bit, but that is not going to happen. Until they do that is is simply not a fair thing to do to players in the game.
There is no "fair". You want those people stuck playing a carp race like Nord to be at a mechanical disadvantage. Why do I have to buy a race change token?
There is "fair". If Nords get a buff then you get something, that's good for you. What if you had paid to make your character a Nord because of those passives and then they nerfed it? You going to go buy a token to change that now ?
It's not fair until Nords and other crap races get a buff. By your logic, ZoS should never adjust OP classes, abilities, or anything else.Joy_Division wrote: »Vance.Frost wrote: »We can hope.
I really hope not...it really messes with people who have already maxed characters with the race in mind. Unless they have race change tokens for everyone I hope they don't change them, would be very unfair to current players.
What is unfair to players would be to leave races as they are in it's current state. It's BiS for mag/stam DK (arguably), mag/stam Warden (arguably for stam, no discussion for mag), magblade (literally no brainer), magplar (same, you're shooting yourself in the leg if you don't run it).
That's 6 classes that have the BiS race choice an argonian for pvp. Please tell me again what's unfair? Argonian is the single most overpowered race to ever touch this game, not even redguard in it's prime was this broken (PvP wise).
Just take away the offstat regen from argonian already and make the healing bonus smaller.
Lets get one thing clear...I personally feel races are TOTALLY unbalanced. Totally. No argument. None. Right now there are like 4 races I would play and that's it.
Having said that...IT DOES NOT MATTER! Too many players have already put in a ton of hours into min/maxing their toons based on the races as they are now. Again how is it fair to those players that you suggest we suddenly change them? You made the choice to play whatever ace you are playing and you played the game, but you had a choice. You basically are telling everyone in the game to go screw themselves because you want a race makeover.
Again if they did a free race change token on every toon it wouldn't matter 1 bit, but that is not going to happen. Until they do that is is simply not a fair thing to do to players in the game.
There is no "fair". You want those people stuck playing a carp race like Nord to be at a mechanical disadvantage. Why do I have to buy a race change token?
Because you CHOSE nord maybe? Wow what a concept...being stuck with your decision...
You could always blame your parents of course...
Yeah, I CHOSE to be a Nord way back in March 2014 when the race and game mechanics were completely different.0 -
Kwik1✭✭✭✭I can't believe you people. You sound like total hypocrites. You don't want classes to be balanced (argonian nerfed, that is) because of PVE? FRICKIN PVE?
You've been doing the same frickin scripted fights since cp cap was at 561. Literally the same thing over and over again, and you want to risk PvP balance where EVERY SINGLE encounter is different, even against the same person BECAUSE YOU MIGHT LOSE 2K TOTAL DPS OR HPS?
Lmfao give me a damn break with "don't ruin PvE because of PvP". PvE is a *** joke in this game, don't claim like removing argonian off pool regen or max hp would hurt you a single bit.
Please gtfo if you're a casual, race has no effect on you.
This is a PvE focused game...if you want a PvP focused game then move on
Until then this game will always be a PvE game so PvE is where the focus SHOULD be. I could care less about PvP personally. Move on to Camelot Unchained and then cry about PvP being unbalanced all you want, until then this game will remain PvE focused and the balances should be PvE based (even though at times they aren't) 0 -
xaraan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭The races don't need as much balancing as some think.
1. Nord needs love. That's about it.
2. Argonians, not as OP as people think. -- their bonuses are mostly support related, nerfing them only removes them from being good at anything as they aren't the go-to dps race for anything as it is. -- They are also the only race that requires an external consumable to get anything from their best passive -- and finally, that boost isn't even as useful as most make it out to be as it ends up equivalent to over-healing (as in, you don't get any benefit from it, so you are a tank and drink a tri pot and get a good chunk extra back too with that passive - you probably only needed it for one stat and you get no benefit from the rest). Seeing the "strong" benefit to the potion passive is very situational, where as, every other races "strong" benefit is constant (unless you built an opposing race/class build like an Altmer Stamina character or something of course.
All in all, that race is suffering from youtubing, where a couple build vids come out that suggest them as the best and the rest mimic it b/c they don't want to look like they don't know what they are talking about and then all the players that watch those vids do the same and say the same and it goes on and on throughout the game world. And tbh, people put too much into the guys that make those vids. Any good player in the game can give you build advice that's as good or better and anybody, of any skill level can make videos. Sometimes we need to take a step back.
And playing breton is very much a great choice for healer, especially when resources like magicka regen and cost reduction can be more valuable than healing out/in with all the overhealing in the game and having some spell resistance from breton can be very handy in trials. And if you want to run a build that might also do some good damage and still get good benefits from magicka passives, Altmer is also a good choice (as raising your magicka/spell damage also increases healing done).
Really, this thread should just be "buff Nords" because they need some love. But even then, they aren't horrible, just a few tweaks needed. They aren't the go-to race for anything. Heck, they aren't even in the mix to be a decent race for anything except maybe you could argue tank.
You could do something small for them in the support side if you wanted to push them more than way, like adding a 1/2/3% bonus to constitution passive in heavy armor. That would give them a little push in the support side and unless you rework the whole race, not much else should change. You can, as is, make a good dps character with a Nord that benefits from good survive-ability vs other races with max stam, max health, damage mit, cold resist (now more useful with wardens in game) and the drink bonus time isn't a horrible benefit to have either. They really just need something little to put them in the mix.-- @xaraan --
nightblade: Xaraan • templar: Xaraan-dar • dragon-knight: Xaraanosaurus • necromancer: Xaraan-qa • warden: Xaraanodon • sorcerer: Xaraan-ra
AD • NA • PC1 -
Joy_Division✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
There really wasn't much different from Nords now and Nords then. They are still decent and have never been top tier for races. Don't act like they are suddenly bad or that they were the best when you chose it, because they weren't. From the beginning they were OK and thats it, just like now they are still OK.Joy_Division wrote: »Yamenstein wrote: »Joy_Division wrote: »Vance.Frost wrote: »We can hope.
I really hope not...it really messes with people who have already maxed characters with the race in mind. Unless they have race change tokens for everyone I hope they don't change them, would be very unfair to current players.
What is unfair to players would be to leave races as they are in it's current state. It's BiS for mag/stam DK (arguably), mag/stam Warden (arguably for stam, no discussion for mag), magblade (literally no brainer), magplar (same, you're shooting yourself in the leg if you don't run it).
That's 6 classes that have the BiS race choice an argonian for pvp. Please tell me again what's unfair? Argonian is the single most overpowered race to ever touch this game, not even redguard in it's prime was this broken (PvP wise).
Just take away the offstat regen from argonian already and make the healing bonus smaller.
Lets get one thing clear...I personally feel races are TOTALLY unbalanced. Totally. No argument. None. Right now there are like 4 races I would play and that's it.
Having said that...IT DOES NOT MATTER! Too many players have already put in a ton of hours into min/maxing their toons based on the races as they are now. Again how is it fair to those players that you suggest we suddenly change them? You made the choice to play whatever ace you are playing and you played the game, but you had a choice. You basically are telling everyone in the game to go screw themselves because you want a race makeover.
Again if they did a free race change token on every toon it wouldn't matter 1 bit, but that is not going to happen. Until they do that is is simply not a fair thing to do to players in the game.
There is no "fair". You want those people stuck playing a carp race like Nord to be at a mechanical disadvantage. Why do I have to buy a race change token?
There is "fair". If Nords get a buff then you get something, that's good for you. What if you had paid to make your character a Nord because of those passives and then they nerfed it? You going to go buy a token to change that now ?
It's not fair until Nords and other crap races get a buff. By your logic, ZoS should never adjust OP classes, abilities, or anything else.Joy_Division wrote: »Vance.Frost wrote: »We can hope.
I really hope not...it really messes with people who have already maxed characters with the race in mind. Unless they have race change tokens for everyone I hope they don't change them, would be very unfair to current players.
What is unfair to players would be to leave races as they are in it's current state. It's BiS for mag/stam DK (arguably), mag/stam Warden (arguably for stam, no discussion for mag), magblade (literally no brainer), magplar (same, you're shooting yourself in the leg if you don't run it).
That's 6 classes that have the BiS race choice an argonian for pvp. Please tell me again what's unfair? Argonian is the single most overpowered race to ever touch this game, not even redguard in it's prime was this broken (PvP wise).
Just take away the offstat regen from argonian already and make the healing bonus smaller.
Lets get one thing clear...I personally feel races are TOTALLY unbalanced. Totally. No argument. None. Right now there are like 4 races I would play and that's it.
Having said that...IT DOES NOT MATTER! Too many players have already put in a ton of hours into min/maxing their toons based on the races as they are now. Again how is it fair to those players that you suggest we suddenly change them? You made the choice to play whatever ace you are playing and you played the game, but you had a choice. You basically are telling everyone in the game to go screw themselves because you want a race makeover.
Again if they did a free race change token on every toon it wouldn't matter 1 bit, but that is not going to happen. Until they do that is is simply not a fair thing to do to players in the game.
There is no "fair". You want those people stuck playing a carp race like Nord to be at a mechanical disadvantage. Why do I have to buy a race change token?
Because you CHOSE nord maybe? Wow what a concept...being stuck with your decision...
You could always blame your parents of course...
Yeah, I CHOSE to be a Nord way back in March 2014 when the race and game mechanics were completely different.
Not all of us were familiar at Launch with how ZoSs tooltips are not to be trusted and are as fortunate as those who got to make their perfect builds years after the fact..
Just because you have an OP race + build does not mean that ZoS should stop balancing the games's classes, abilities, ultimates, passives, and races.Edited by Joy_Division on February 7, 2018 9:11PM3 -
Twohothardware✭✭✭✭✭
✭Nord, Imperial, Khajiit, and Breton all four need at least minor buffs because there has become too much separation between them and races like Redguard and Argonian after all the massive changes last year regarding sustain. Sustain didn't used to be an issue so you could play on any race and the only noticeable difference was in damage increasing passives but that's no longer the case. That's why Argonian is overperforming in PvP even though the race has no real damage increasing passive. Sustain is king and the races need to be adjusted because of that.2 -
FearlessOne_2014✭✭✭✭✭
✭SidewalkChalk5 wrote: »No. You are ignoring the fact that loads of people have respecced to superior races since race change was introduced. To negatively alter the product after-the-fact would show serious disrespect to paying customers. After choosing to charge ridiculous prices for race change, any substantial changes would be a deeply unethical business practice on ZOS' part.
I'm just going to throw in my two cents here. I choose Redguard back when racial passives was in a completely different state. After buying 4 racial tokens to change 4 of my characters to Redguard. ZO$ completely nerfed my race.
However you didn't see me cry one bit over these nerfs. Because i know that the game would be in a better health because of it. Because I'm not a self entitled prick who feels I'm the only one who matters.
Where was the bloody tears when Redguard got nerfed hard. Honestly almost everyone that plays Cyrodiil and can use their brains. Know that Argonian is way more broken now then Redguard ever was. Even in it's prime.
It's simple really if my Redguard a race that wasn't nearly as overtuned as Argonian is now, can get the nerf bat. Then Argonians should be no difference.
I support big nerfs to Argonians to put them on par with the other races. Why do Argonians get free tripots on top of pots, plus huge heal gains, on top of high health bonuses?
Either Argonian needs big nerfs to be brought down to the level of other races. Or the other races need huge buffs to be brought up to the level that Argonian is atm.Joy_Division wrote: »
There really wasn't much different from Nords now and Nords then. They are still decent and have never been top tier for races. Don't act like they are suddenly bad or that they were the best when you chose it, because they weren't. From the beginning they were OK and thats it, just like now they are still OK.Joy_Division wrote: »Yamenstein wrote: »Joy_Division wrote: »Vance.Frost wrote: »We can hope.
I really hope not...it really messes with people who have already maxed characters with the race in mind. Unless they have race change tokens for everyone I hope they don't change them, would be very unfair to current players.
What is unfair to players would be to leave races as they are in it's current state. It's BiS for mag/stam DK (arguably), mag/stam Warden (arguably for stam, no discussion for mag), magblade (literally no brainer), magplar (same, you're shooting yourself in the leg if you don't run it).
That's 6 classes that have the BiS race choice an argonian for pvp. Please tell me again what's unfair? Argonian is the single most overpowered race to ever touch this game, not even redguard in it's prime was this broken (PvP wise).
Just take away the offstat regen from argonian already and make the healing bonus smaller.
Lets get one thing clear...I personally feel races are TOTALLY unbalanced. Totally. No argument. None. Right now there are like 4 races I would play and that's it.
Having said that...IT DOES NOT MATTER! Too many players have already put in a ton of hours into min/maxing their toons based on the races as they are now. Again how is it fair to those players that you suggest we suddenly change them? You made the choice to play whatever ace you are playing and you played the game, but you had a choice. You basically are telling everyone in the game to go screw themselves because you want a race makeover.
Again if they did a free race change token on every toon it wouldn't matter 1 bit, but that is not going to happen. Until they do that is is simply not a fair thing to do to players in the game.
There is no "fair". You want those people stuck playing a carp race like Nord to be at a mechanical disadvantage. Why do I have to buy a race change token?
There is "fair". If Nords get a buff then you get something, that's good for you. What if you had paid to make your character a Nord because of those passives and then they nerfed it? You going to go buy a token to change that now ?
It's not fair until Nords and other crap races get a buff. By your logic, ZoS should never adjust OP classes, abilities, or anything else.Joy_Division wrote: »Vance.Frost wrote: »We can hope.
I really hope not...it really messes with people who have already maxed characters with the race in mind. Unless they have race change tokens for everyone I hope they don't change them, would be very unfair to current players.
What is unfair to players would be to leave races as they are in it's current state. It's BiS for mag/stam DK (arguably), mag/stam Warden (arguably for stam, no discussion for mag), magblade (literally no brainer), magplar (same, you're shooting yourself in the leg if you don't run it).
That's 6 classes that have the BiS race choice an argonian for pvp. Please tell me again what's unfair? Argonian is the single most overpowered race to ever touch this game, not even redguard in it's prime was this broken (PvP wise).
Just take away the offstat regen from argonian already and make the healing bonus smaller.
Lets get one thing clear...I personally feel races are TOTALLY unbalanced. Totally. No argument. None. Right now there are like 4 races I would play and that's it.
Having said that...IT DOES NOT MATTER! Too many players have already put in a ton of hours into min/maxing their toons based on the races as they are now. Again how is it fair to those players that you suggest we suddenly change them? You made the choice to play whatever ace you are playing and you played the game, but you had a choice. You basically are telling everyone in the game to go screw themselves because you want a race makeover.
Again if they did a free race change token on every toon it wouldn't matter 1 bit, but that is not going to happen. Until they do that is is simply not a fair thing to do to players in the game.
There is no "fair". You want those people stuck playing a carp race like Nord to be at a mechanical disadvantage. Why do I have to buy a race change token?
Because you CHOSE nord maybe? Wow what a concept...being stuck with your decision...
You could always blame your parents of course...
Yeah, I CHOSE to be a Nord way back in March 2014 when the race and game mechanics were completely different.
Not all of us were familiar at Launch with how ZoSs tooltips are not to be trusted and are as fortunate as those who got to make their perfect builds years after the fact..
Just because you have an OP race + build does not mean that ZoS should stop balancing the games's classes, abilities, ultimates, passives, and races.
You my fellow gamer gets a awesome for this post!0 -
Silver_Strider✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Oh, how the times have changed. Argonians were, for such a long time, worthless. At launch, Argonian had a brief period of relevance with NB because potions were OP back in the day and Argonian NBs got a hefty 45% (or was it 55%) increase in potion effectiveness. 1.6 nerfed Argonians to the hands down worst race in the entire game by changing potions as well as the effects of NB and Argonian potion passives. We got some slight buffs to our health stat periodically but nothing else really for a long time. Thieves Guild uped the potion restore from potion passive from 8% to 12% but again, nothing relevant to our DPS and we just became slightly better tanks. One Tamriel comes around and changed the potion passive again to flat values, increased our max magic by 3% and made Argonians the best healers by changing our 9% healing received, into 5/5% split between Healing Done and Healing Received. It was at that time, people felt Argonians were, mostly fine, despite their damage still being subpar. Then Morrowind came and made everyone else suffer. The high damage of the other races were struck down by being unable to sustain worth a damn, while Argonians just continue chugging potions like Skooma Addicts and being OP because we can still do close to our Pre-Morrowind damage and the collective masses loses their s***.
Oh, how the times have changed.
Regardless, since I've been an Argonian since I started playing, despite all the ridicule they received over the years and have been constantly fighting for what we have now, I'll be damned if I see them nerfed to harshly so I'll just list a few suggestions to bring other races up and see how things go from there.
Nord
Stalwart - Increase Max Stamina by 3/6/9% and Health Recovery by 6/13/20%
Rugged - Increase Damage Resist by 2/4/6% and Restore 400 stamina whenever you take damage. This effect can occur once every 3 seconds.Lets Nord keep their damage resistance while also letting them restore stamina every few seconds on getting hit. Makes them pretty powerful Tanks now, while giving them a bit more damage in the stamina department
Breton
Magicka Mastery - Reduce the cost of spells by 2/3/4% and Increase Magic Regen by 1/3/5%Ever so small buff to the Reduce Cost effect with an added Magic Regen buff to make it a more sustainable Magic Race over Altmer
Khajiit
Nimble - Increase Max Health by 2/4/6% and Increase Stamina Regen by 4/8/12%
Stealthy - Reduces your detection radius in Stealth by 1/2/3m, Increases damage done while in Stealth by 2/4/6% and Increase Max Stamina by 1/2/3%
Carnage - Increase Weapon and Spell Critial by 2/5/8%. Khajiit loses its Health regen passive in place of a 6% health buff as well as 3% more Stamina. Legit just tacked on the spell crit so that people would stop complaining about Magic Khajiit under representation.
Bosmer
Stealthy - Reduces your detection radius in Stealth by 1/2/3m, Increases damage done while in Stealth by 2/4/6% and Increase Max Stamina by 1/2/3%Same as Khajiit. More Max Stamina.
On Stealthy nerf for Khajiit and BosmerStealthy is not a healthy passive in this game, at all. It shoehorns both Khajiit and Bosmer into being nothing but gank NB builds in PvP, limiting their overall options in both PvP and PvE as they underperform in all other classes. To grant a level of flexibility in other classes, while still allowing for the ganker route to be viable, Stealthy REQUIRED this nerf.
Imperial
Red Diamond - Your light/heavy attacks restore 500 Max Health and 400 Max Stamina + Max Magicka. This effect can occur once every 4 seconds.No Chance %. Just a pure, flat Tri-stat restore that occurs on any weaved attacks every 4 seconds.
Orc
Brawny - Increase Max Health and Stamina by 3/5/8%I wanted to update Orcs so that it won't be completely outclassed by Khajiit and a minor Stamina and Health buff might be enough to keep them on the map as a decent Stamina race
Argonian
Resourceful - Increase your Max Magic by 2/4/6%, whenever you drink a potion you restore 1200/2400/3600 Health/Magic/Stamina
Quick to Mend - Increase your Healing done and Received by 1/2/3%I HATE YOU ALL, making me nerf Argonians at all after YEARS of inferiority and I know if I don't, someone is going to lose their minds but if I'm going to have to suggest nerfs I'm going to get something out of it, so I'm going to get my 6% max magic if I'm losing resources from Resourceful as well as some of the healing bonuses from Quick to Mend.
There. If ANYONE has a an issue with a single thing suggested, I would like to hear it. These are just my opinion on things, some changes I'd like (or dislike) to see to help balance the spectrum on races and keep them on more of an even footing in all aspects of the game. Even now, I'm reconsidering some of these changes as they might tip the scales a little TOO much in one direction but I digress.Edited by Silver_Strider on February 8, 2018 5:45AMArgonian forever5 -
f047ys3v3n✭✭✭✭✭
✭Breton is DC's magica race..... LOL, WTF are you supposed to do with that. No heal buff, no dps buff, a sustain buff weaker than Altmer, and a strange spell resistance half tank buff. The girls are cute. So I guess it's a big buff to ERP.
Gotts to generate more money from imp edition upgrades and race changes.
Yea, races are still crazy unbalanced.
1) They should be better balanced
2) Racial passives should be much weaker because they matter way to much.I am mostly pleased with the current state of ESO. Please do continue to ban cheaters though and you guys have to find out who is duping gold and how because the economy is currently non-functional.1 -
Azurya✭✭✭✭✭
✭Vance.Frost wrote: »I play on xbox but i like to read the pts notes. I feel like a few races need to be changed. Nords need some love while Argonians need a little bit of a tuning. Argonians are the most viable as tank and healer roles in both PvE and PvP because of their sustainability and healing bonus. They push Bretons and Altmer from the healing spots. Nord is only ever seen in PvE and Argonians make that even lower then before.Nords are probably the worst race in the game having the worst passives that make tanking PvE the only viable role. I can't be the only one who thinks so.
ah you feel... what exactly?
3 long years nobody played argonians
and let me tell you, you can play a nord anytime and it will just have 2% less then the best for the job class
the racial passives are a must for the top players, not for you and me
and you can change your race anyway, if you think you need other stats
so no need for wrecking this0 -
LadyNalcarya✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭2. Argonians, not as OP as people think. -- their bonuses are mostly support related, nerfing them only removes them from being good at anything as they aren't the go-to dps race for anything as it is. -- They are also the only race that requires an external consumable to get anything from their best passive -- and finally, that boost isn't even as useful as most make it out to be as it ends up equivalent to over-healing (as in, you don't get any benefit from it, so you are a tank and drink a tri pot and get a good chunk extra back too with that passive - you probably only needed it for one stat and you get no benefit from the rest). Seeing the "strong" benefit to the potion passive is very situational, where as, every other races "strong" benefit is constant (unless you built an opposing race/class build like an Altmer Stamina character or something of course.
Argonians will still be good. Take a look at other tanking races - imperials and nords arent that good. They also have a unique ability to restore stamina while blocking, which is important for tanks.
And they DO have a constant buff. 9% hp, 3% magicka and 5% healing done and recieved.
I agree that they shouldnt be nerfed into oblivion, but atm theyre strong to the point where people take them for any role in pvp. No other race is like this.
P.S. This isnt the only consumable-bsed racial. There are "extra drink/food" duration racials, too. And everyone in pvp and vet content uses a lot of potions, especially after Morrowind nerfs.
Dro-m'Athra Destroyer | Divayth Fyr's Coadjutor | Voice of Reason
PC/EU0 -
Grimm13✭✭✭✭✭
✭I would rather see Race as a cosmetic choice, then you select from a packaged group which bonuses you want to apply to your character. Makes it a totally balance choice for all players this way.
Yes, all players would be given a required re-roll. It;s been done in the past with a major change.
Play as you want, would be more true.
What I had not pointed out was how this could be marketed. Pretty much as it is now.
You would access to your faction Specialization Packages.
The Any Race option still opens up both the Race and the Specialization Packages to be cross faction.
Imperial Edition would add the Race and the Specialization Package to the choices.
New Race and Specialization Packages could be developed and offered in same way as the Imp Ed.
The option to change Race would only change the appearance.
A separate Specialization change token could be marketed. This is the carrot to add to get ZOS to do this split. Money drives change.
Since the bonuses are no longer strictly Racial, have to change the name such as Specialization Package. This describes exactly what it does, how your character is focusing into a Specialization.0 -
djyrb✭✭✭I agree with @Silver_Strider that the sweeping game changes that happen about once a year are a big reason that races become so unbalanced, as opposed to changes to the racial passive themselves. For example, prior to CP, Imperials were the best all around flex-race due to softcaps, which is what I think the original intent of the race was meant to be. After CP, they were pushing into more of a tanking / Stam DPS role. Now, they are not the first choice for these roles, and not even on the radar for a Magicka build - again due to the massive overhauls ESO endures every year or so.
Argonians were at the bottom for a long time, especially once the niche potion NB build was nuked. They then got to a nice place where they were a solid choice for healing, through the racial passive updates prior to Morrowind. After Morrowind though, they ascended to the top for support roles solely due to an existing racial passive that counteracted the sustain nerfs.
Don't get me wrong, I like Argonians and their lore, but it's getting old seeing EVERY tank or healer is a pale, scaleless lizard.0 -
SickDuck✭✭✭✭✭Race balance was fixed long time ago. It was also renamed to Race Change Token.Holdviola - Khira'de Regalo - Lélekvadász - Used To Be An Adventurer - Zetor - Does-Not-Give-A-Duck - Lord Sugar - Tenar Arha - Da'rinka - Violent Moon - Extreme Runner0 -
Derra✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Vance.Frost wrote: »We can hope.
I really hope not...it really messes with people who have already maxed characters with the race in mind. Unless they have race change tokens for everyone I hope they don't change them, would be very unfair to current players.
What is unfair to players would be to leave races as they are in it's current state. It's BiS for mag/stam DK (arguably), mag/stam Warden (arguably for stam, no discussion for mag), magblade (literally no brainer), magplar (same, you're shooting yourself in the leg if you don't run it).
That's 6 classes that have the BiS race choice an argonian for pvp. Please tell me again what's unfair? Argonian is the single most overpowered race to ever touch this game, not even redguard in it's prime was this broken (PvP wise).
Just take away the offstat regen from argonian already and make the healing bonus smaller.
Redguard in their prime (3% maxstam every 3s - or roughly 1100 stamina every 3s infight or 22k stam/min + 9% rec + maxstat) were quite a bit better than the 6100 mainstat + offstats argonians are getting per minute.
Argonians are strong yeah - but comparing them to unnerfed redguard is a little far fetched. That was still a completely different level.<Noricum>
I live. I die. I live again.
Derra - DC - Sorc - AvA 50
Derrah - EP - Sorc - AvA 502 -
xaraan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭LadyNalcarya wrote: »2. Argonians, not as OP as people think. -- their bonuses are mostly support related, nerfing them only removes them from being good at anything as they aren't the go-to dps race for anything as it is. -- They are also the only race that requires an external consumable to get anything from their best passive -- and finally, that boost isn't even as useful as most make it out to be as it ends up equivalent to over-healing (as in, you don't get any benefit from it, so you are a tank and drink a tri pot and get a good chunk extra back too with that passive - you probably only needed it for one stat and you get no benefit from the rest). Seeing the "strong" benefit to the potion passive is very situational, where as, every other races "strong" benefit is constant (unless you built an opposing race/class build like an Altmer Stamina character or something of course.
Argonians will still be good. Take a look at other tanking races - imperials and nords arent that good. They also have a unique ability to restore stamina while blocking, which is important for tanks.
And they DO have a constant buff. 9% hp, 3% magicka and 5% healing done and recieved.
I agree that they shouldnt be nerfed into oblivion, but atm theyre strong to the point where people take them for any role in pvp. No other race is like this.
P.S. This isnt the only consumable-bsed racial. There are "extra drink/food" duration racials, too. And everyone in pvp and vet content uses a lot of potions, especially after Morrowind nerfs.
OK, first you skip the fact I said the races 'strong' passive, as most races have a go-to reason a player chooses them when worrying about passives, not the only passive that relies on consumables.
Again, I didn't say they didn't have a constant buff, just that the go-to buff that makes people choose them is based on a consumable.
And, every race can restore stam while blocking with a consumable. Argonian just restores a bit more (and only if they use the consumable, they don't get that ability full time and by it's nature is on a cool down). And it suffers from the same thing that happens when people talk about healing - "I healed your for 50K!!!! - uh, I only have 18K health, who cares about the other 32K?" Same with potions, you don't get all three benefits at once every time you drink a potion b/c you aren't completely empty on all three resources at once.
Mostly your entire argument is based on a bunch of stuff that I didn't say and moving the goal posts. I've had this same argument with many friends when they go on about how OP Argonians are, then they make up a new character for pvp or pve and lo-and-behold - not an argonian lol. The only thing that makes them appealing in pvp is that you get a little stam back even if you drink a potion that gives you magicka and other buffs, and that's about it because stam is always good to have in pvp. Even then, I've seen those same min-maxers make up bosmers and altmers and everything else that has either good regen or good damage buffs.
In the end, that is the only passive they really get that sets them apart from other races, nerf that to the point where people don't complain about it and then what? why play the race at all? Others get more max health, and max magicka and regen is just as or more valuable than increased healing (esp with the overhealing in the game and the fact that increasing spell damage increases healing). So really giving them the healing buff and small magicka increase is a way to make them stronger for healing, but not all magic, where giving a race 10% more magic will be all around better for both damage and heals. Even players that make build vids that are saying Argonian is best aren't swapping their race or making one up, so it's not that OP. Where as when Redguard was pre-nerf, I saw tons of DPS swapping race to that. And currently, with the dent to stam regen going on, I've seen several tanks talk about Imperial next patch and when you see many talking about having to regen stam by letting stuff hit you without block up (obviously blocking power shots), then damage reduction from something like Nord becomes more valuable.
Nobody picks Argonian because they get strong damage buffs, and people that pick damage buff races in place of races with good resource bonuses are usually just bitter that there is another choice just as good, but for a different reason, out there because most players want everything in this game. Frankly, that's how it should be. Someone should look at say, getting resources means more to me than damage for my playstyle, so this race works for me - the next guy says the opposite and goes with a race that gives more damage/resource pool buffs. Want to nerf their potion passive, fine, buff something else like their max magicka. But people will always complain about it, even if it's lowered a little because they don't know any better. In the end, if it was OP that's what everyone that cared about power would be playing and it's not. Where in the past, we did see those players swapping their race to imperial or redguard or the like during those time periods.-- @xaraan --
nightblade: Xaraan • templar: Xaraan-dar • dragon-knight: Xaraanosaurus • necromancer: Xaraan-qa • warden: Xaraanodon • sorcerer: Xaraan-ra
AD • NA • PC0 -
Ragnaroek93✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭I'm mostly salty because I'm forced to play an ugly ass lizard when I'd much rather play a majestic high elf or a blonde breton... Imagine what it's like to be forced into playing ugly races when all your characters are females....
I used to think that PvP was a tragedy, but now I realize, it's a comedy.0 -
Finedaible✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭In most threads I've been reading regarding Race balance, the most recurring races people are asking for buffs are Imperial, Bosmer, Nord, and Khajiit. I can agree with all those, except Imperial (since I don't have access to it), but i think Khajiit are the race in most need of a buff at this time, and here is a list of why i think so:
Khajiit have been hit the hardest by SUSTAIN NERFS that came with Morrowind update.
They have NO STAT BONUSES while other races have higher stat pools, and some even have recovery on top of bonuses.
They had spell critical removed from the Carnage passive, which I think removed some build variety/flexibility.
The THIEF and SHADOW Mundus stones were nerfed on top of the changes above, and these two stones no longer perform better than Warrior or Apprentice as a result.
Health Recovery is a laughable passive in PvE.0 -
Ragnarock41✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭I wouldn't mind a small buff to orcs.
Maybe %1-2 more stats, or something like %10 extra resource gained from heavy attacks. Would help their non-existant sustain.Edited by Ragnarock41 on February 8, 2018 7:54PM0 -
xaraan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I'm mostly salty because I'm forced to play an ugly ass lizard when I'd much rather play a majestic high elf or a blonde breton... Imagine what it's like to be forced into playing ugly races when all your characters are females....
If you are just trolling, then I give you a lol, because I did laugh. But if you are serious, then you are wrong and need help with the game.
What role are you playing? Tank, sure Argonian over the other two b/c the max health is going to help more than the other stuff they get. But damage? no way would you pick argonian. Healer? Breton - with overhealing in the game and resource management so rough, give me constant max magicka and magicka cost reduction (although I do think they should buff breton cost reduction by like 1% or so). I mean, do people not realize that increasing your max magicka does increase your healing done (and also increases damage). Not saying Argonian is not a good choice too, but if you are picking them over the other two races for healing when you don't want to play an argonian, you made a mistake and should quit listening to meta-parrots and play what you want (especially when want you want to play is arguably as good).
Edited by xaraan on February 8, 2018 7:56PM-- @xaraan --
nightblade: Xaraan • templar: Xaraan-dar • dragon-knight: Xaraanosaurus • necromancer: Xaraan-qa • warden: Xaraanodon • sorcerer: Xaraan-ra
AD • NA • PC0 -
FearlessOne_2014✭✭✭✭✭
✭Race balance was fixed long time ago. It was also renamed to Race Change Token.
So our options are either...
A.) P2W to change to a extremely visual appalling race, to be competitive because, this race is clearly beyond overtuned?
B.) Reroll to the visual appalling race, to be competitive. (What about those of us who already have 14 max level and mount trained characters?)
C.) Kowtow to your Argonian masters and get wrecked, by lower skilled players being carried by their race?
D.) My personal favorite option to be honest.... Just don't bother with the highly unbalanced crappy version of P2W PvP you are getting stuffed into your face. If it was at least a somewhat visual pleasing race, I would be able to somewhat get behind that. However it's the most ugly race in the game with Orc as a close 2nd.
E.) Quit game go play a real competitive skill-based and fun game if you are only interested in PvP. (The MMO genre today is widely known. To be one of the worst genres to play, if all you want is to PvP.)
Did I leave one out? Oh right I did.....
G.) Just stop the pointless complaining that is not going to be heard. Because it would go against the current market strategy behind the race change tokens. Just do what I do as cases like these just continuously flip flop back and forth in that name of profit. Sit down and relax and just don't give one flying iota of a care, about winning or losing in PvP in a highly unbalanced, P2W genre. Life becomes so much better this way.
Why lose sleep and get sick over something that's out of your control? Are you just that much of a loser IRL and in gaming. That you can't stomach a virtual loss, in a non competitive non skill-based P2W genre no less?0 -
Eiagra✭✭✭✭✭I think the problem people are experiencing with the "Resourceful" passive is that it is universally applicable, and extremely potent. Sure, it's got a cooldown of 45 seconds, but how does it compare with other races' bonuses?
20% Health Recovery for orcs isn't so useful if you're not playing a tank. My main character (an orc magicka templar) gets maybe an extra 75 health every 2 seconds from it -- a net bonus of ~1687 health. That's about a third of what Resourceful grants, and it doesn't give any Magicka or Stamina. My tank (orc dragonknight) gets ~254 every 2 seconds, so a net bonus of ~5719 health in the same 45 seconds, but again no other resources are granted.
I get that there is a cost associated with Resourceful -- you have to consume a potion, so it's not constantly active unlike other races' resource bonuses. But you could literally drink trash and get a potent boost -- and most players are going to be using custom-tailored crafted potions. With, I imagine, end-game types having the crafting resources (or gold) to keep high uptime on spell/weapon damage potions and still get healing/resources.
The thing is, I don't want to see a nerf for Argonians. It's nice that there is something potent they can utilize for that specific scenario, and while power creep is a difficult juggling act to deal with, it leaves a sour taste behind when something is taken away. What I would like to see is to have passives assessed for all races so that everyone has one passive that grants some kind of universal bonus, regardless of whether you are Tank, DPS, or Healer... or whether you are Stamina or Magicka based.
That's going to be an exceptionally challenging logistical scenario, though...
And while we're at it, maybe have it so flavor passives are useful at endgame for all races. "Craftsman" (orc) is utterly useless to a maxed out craftsman... Even an Imperial's 1% gold gain at least does -something- at all times. :P██████ █████████ ███████ In verity.0
