The Gold Road Chapter – which includes the Scribing system – and Update 42 is now available to test on the PTS! You can read the latest patch notes here: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/656454/
Maintenance for the week of April 29:
• PC/Mac: No maintenance – April 29
• PC/Mac: No maintenance – April 29
new 15 day and 7 day research scrolls
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Elsonso✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭lordrichter wrote: »
You don't think so? I would be interested to hear your view.
Your comment, which I quoted, makes us victims and assigns blame to us.
We are not victims. This has not been something that we have "allowed". If we have any role in this at all, it is as a willing instigator or as inspiration, not as a victim.
Decisions like these are made by Producers and Directors. They do not ask our permission and we have no veto power. We cannot "disallow" it any more than we can "allow" it.
When I complain that Crafting has been eroded over time, and that ZOS has not done enough to reinforce it, what I mean is that they don't seem dedicated to upholding crafting as an important and integral part of an MMO game. Decisions that they make about it do not look like the decisions that someone would make to solidify the role of crafting in the game. Instead, they look like the decisions that someone would make to move crafting into more of a secondary support role. The word I usually use is "personal", and they are doing this by narrowing the social aspect. They make it so that people are less dependent upon others for obtaining resources, getting motifs, and learning traits. This streamlines adoption by removing complexity, and that is likely the goal, but it comes with a need to also reduce the importance, so that the system does not become OP.
Yes, this is probably due to players, but it is not something that we "allow". It is something that we are doing, or possibly not doing, with crafting. We are not to blame if crafting is too difficult for some people, of if some people struggle with advancement in crafting, or if some people cannot do what they want with crafting, or if crafting is a burden. That is all on ZOS, as is how they respond to it.
This is just the "game design" part of it. This does not even touch the "budgetary influences" on what they do and the decisions that they make.2 -
Apache_Kid✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Who could possibly care?
With all the out-standing issues and bugs in this game whether or not someone wants to spend copious amounts of money to become a 9-trait crafter more quickly than I did is like so far down on my list it's not even funny.
This mentality of "I sat through this stupid and arduous process so everyone else must as well!" is not a good one to have.
The research in this game is out of control. It took me like a full year to get all the traits researched and i even used a few one day scrolls bought via writ vouchers here and there. It doesn't matter that all you have to do is hit one button and wait, 27 days to complete a task like this in a game is just out of control.
Someone else becoming a master crafter doesn't affect you or other players in any way and I don't think that this will even be much of an issue anyways because you can bet that these scrolls will be expensive.
Focus on what really matters like the fact that they haven't fixed bugs and improved performance in a timely matter but never fail to keep the crown-store full of expensive goodies.Edited by Apache_Kid on February 2, 2018 3:36PM2 -
Jade1986✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Its this kind of thing that makes me wonder if I really should resub. Instead of focusing on fixing cyro, loading screens outside of cyro, fixing items CURRENTLY IN THE CROWN STORE that are broken, fixing long standing glitches, fixing armor that has been mssed since forever, fixing the GOD AWFUL servers, they add more lazy day stuff to the store that smurfs on people who put the time in. Im all for QOL improvements, but make them in game.2 -
magictucktuck✭✭✭✭✭
I see what your saying here but if a people had it their way they wouldn't charge for anything and they would have no money. that's why company's charge for things and stick to their guns because if they don't people run all over them and they don't last very long. I work in aviation and you would think people with their own planes and tons of money would be "good" people but they try to cheat and scam and lie to get the cheapest price possible and we call them out all the time. they will do anything to return something THEY broke and blame the company when its blatantly their fault. ZOS takes so much crap for stuff that is just not in their control. i wouldn't mind taking your 5 bucks to save a day either.
lol now I'm just taking out my frustration of customer i have.. i think I'm off topic..Edited by magictucktuck on February 2, 2018 3:01PM0 -
Jitterbug✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Having to research for a year keeps people logging in. Might be worth more than cash shop instant money.0 -
Iluvrien✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭lordrichter wrote: »lordrichter wrote: »
You don't think so? I would be interested to hear your view.
Your comment, which I quoted, makes us victims and assigns blame to us.
We are not victims. This has not been something that we have "allowed". If we have any role in this at all, it is as a willing instigator or as inspiration, not as a victim.
Decisions like these are made by Producers and Directors. They do not ask our permission and we have no veto power. We cannot "disallow" it any more than we can "allow" it.
Yes, we can. We can, by our response to the trend, make a choice by the Producers & Directors costly. Either in terms of direct financial impact (loss of subs or crown store sales) or in terms of PR (forum, reddit or social media outcry). Recent controversies have caused companies to reconsider their approach to certain monetisation schemes. Albeit temporarily in some cases.
This is a thing that the playerbase of ESO was perfectly capable of attempting. By not doing so we certainly have "allowed" it to continue, "opposing" it is the last thing that seems to have happened.lordrichter wrote: »When I complain that Crafting has been eroded over time, and that ZOS has not done enough to reinforce it, what I mean is that they don't seem dedicated to upholding crafting as an important and integral part of an MMO game. Decisions that they make about it do not look like the decisions that someone would make to solidify the role of crafting in the game. Instead, they look like the decisions that someone would make to move crafting into more of a secondary support role. The word I usually use is "personal", and they are doing this by narrowing the social aspect. They make it so that people are less dependent upon others for obtaining resources, getting motifs, and learning traits. This streamlines adoption by removing complexity, and that is likely the goal, but it comes with a need to also reduce the importance, so that the system does not become OP.
This I agree with. ZOS has set out to make everyone a crafter, rather than giving crafting itself meaning.lordrichter wrote: »Yes, this is probably due to players, but it is not something that we "allow". It is something that we are doing, or possibly not doing, with crafting. We are not to blame if crafting is too difficult for some people, of if some people struggle with advancement in crafting, or if some people cannot do what they want with crafting, or if crafting is a burden. That is all on ZOS, as is how they respond to it.
This is just the "game design" part of it. This does not even touch the "budgetary influences" on what they do and the decisions that they make.
If it is due to players, then players aren't the victims and we should wear some of the blame. If the response to the initial introduction of crown research scrolls had universally been "Nobody will buy these, give use a more involved research system instead", do you really think that we would be getting an upgrade on those scrolls now?Edited by Iluvrien on February 2, 2018 3:09PM0 -
Jade1986✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭magictucktuck wrote: »
I see what your saying here but if a people had it their way they wouldn't charge for anything and they would have no money. that's why company's charge for things and stick to their guns because if they don't people run all over them and they don't last very long. I work in aviation and you would think people with their own planes and tons of money would be "good" people but they try to cheat and scam and lie to get the cheapest price possible and we call them out all the time. they will do anything to return something THEY broke and blame the company when its blatantly their fault. ZOS takes so much crap for stuff that is just not in their control. i wouldn't mind taking your 5 bucks to save a day either.
lol now I'm just taking out my frustration of customer i have.. i think I'm off topic..
Charging a sub? Totally cool, adding 100% cosmetics to the store, also cool, charging for a large dlc when they said they would not do that, questionable, crown crates, disgusting predatory practice, crown store motifs where you HAVE to buy mimic stones to make the armor, downright intolerable, and now this? I can understand some stuff, but this is getting to the point where they are milking it.2 -
Bax✭✭✭I never liked wait to get gameplay. It is usually very poor design to extend game time. I don't really have any objection against those scrolls, I have objections against whole system oriented on waiting and decreasing time using cash without any actual gameplay other than "push the button to wait".Edited by Bax on February 2, 2018 3:27PM0 -
Kiralyn2000✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Its this kind of thing that makes me wonder if I really should resub. Instead of focusing on fixing cyro, loading screens outside of cyro, fixing items CURRENTLY IN THE CROWN STORE that are broken, fixing long standing glitches, fixing armor that has been mssed since forever, fixing the GOD AWFUL servers, they add more lazy day stuff to the store that smurfs on people who put the time in. Im all for QOL improvements, but make them in game.
I'm pretty sure that making the new scrolls likely took one programmer less than an hour. Probably much less. I doubt that the effort of making those scrolls took away from any efforts to do other things.
(that said - yeah, those "efforts to do other things" could use a bit more work)0 -
magictucktuck✭✭✭✭✭magictucktuck wrote: »
I see what your saying here but if a people had it their way they wouldn't charge for anything and they would have no money. that's why company's charge for things and stick to their guns because if they don't people run all over them and they don't last very long. I work in aviation and you would think people with their own planes and tons of money would be "good" people but they try to cheat and scam and lie to get the cheapest price possible and we call them out all the time. they will do anything to return something THEY broke and blame the company when its blatantly their fault. ZOS takes so much crap for stuff that is just not in their control. i wouldn't mind taking your 5 bucks to save a day either.
lol now I'm just taking out my frustration of customer i have.. i think I'm off topic..
Charging a sub? Totally cool, adding 100% cosmetics to the store, also cool, charging for a large dlc when they said they would not do that, questionable, crown crates, disgusting predatory practice, crown store motifs where you HAVE to buy mimic stones to make the armor, downright intolerable, and now this? I can understand some stuff, but this is getting to the point where they are milking it.
You know have to buy NOTHING right? complaining about new products and more choices seems weird?
well i do understand the expansion thing that is questionable i agree0 -
Jade1986✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭magictucktuck wrote: »magictucktuck wrote: »
I see what your saying here but if a people had it their way they wouldn't charge for anything and they would have no money. that's why company's charge for things and stick to their guns because if they don't people run all over them and they don't last very long. I work in aviation and you would think people with their own planes and tons of money would be "good" people but they try to cheat and scam and lie to get the cheapest price possible and we call them out all the time. they will do anything to return something THEY broke and blame the company when its blatantly their fault. ZOS takes so much crap for stuff that is just not in their control. i wouldn't mind taking your 5 bucks to save a day either.
lol now I'm just taking out my frustration of customer i have.. i think I'm off topic..
Charging a sub? Totally cool, adding 100% cosmetics to the store, also cool, charging for a large dlc when they said they would not do that, questionable, crown crates, disgusting predatory practice, crown store motifs where you HAVE to buy mimic stones to make the armor, downright intolerable, and now this? I can understand some stuff, but this is getting to the point where they are milking it.
You know have to buy NOTHING right? complaining about new products and more choices seems weird?
well i do understand the expansion thing that is questionable i agree
Of course I dont have to, that isnt the point. The point is now instead of spending the time crafting people just throw some money out and are able to craft all the most powerful craftable gear with the best traits in no time. Thats the problem. Especially when they said they wouldnt sell these things a while back, yet they have pretty much back tracked on everything.
And with crown crates, you have less choices actually. Instead of being able to direct purchase all those things in them, you have to blow tons of cash HOPING you get them. Which I did a whole once, and will never do again.Edited by Jade1986 on February 2, 2018 5:41PM1 -
SugaComa✭✭✭✭✭Just to point out the op never said buy them with real money he just said how about the ability to have them in game
They could drop like writs or be special deliveries from your minions but be bound to you to help with research
They're more options than simply adding them to crown store so you can stop screaming pay to win0 -
Colecovision✭✭✭✭✭
✭The point is now instead of spending the time crafting people just throw some money out and are able to craft all the most powerful craftable gear with the best traits in no time. Thats the problem.
No. They need a crap ton of skill points to make cp 160 gear and it will have to be 3 times over if they want Hundings weapons, medium and bow. But that doesn't even mater because there is no use for a 15 day scroll in this game other than writs. Trait 6 is 8 days of research. Of course it's less if you purchase eso plus.
If someone wants to be mad at ZoS, it should be that they are selling 15 day research scrolls with an implication that the player will be helped by this. They won't. They really won't.
Edit: wrote 14 day instead of 15.Edited by Colecovision on February 2, 2018 6:54PM1 -
firedrgn✭✭✭✭✭I think you all are missing the point seems to me they are thinking ahead and we are going to get something in the next chapter tied to crafting. I think it will make sense when we get a look at the next chapter. I see iy as a good sign.1
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magictucktuck✭✭✭✭✭I think you all are missing the point seems to me they are thinking ahead and we are going to get something in the next chapter tied to crafting. I think it will make sense when we get a look at the next chapter. I see iy as a good sign.
VERY GOOD POINT!
I think you could be on to something, everyone thinks spell CRAFTING is coming. maybe certain effects locked by traits, or each trait makes a a diff effect.
EDIT: and locking new players behind a 6 month wait of nothing would be awfulEdited by magictucktuck on February 2, 2018 8:21PM2 -
Kingslayer513✭✭✭✭✭
✭I agree with OP. My main has been a maxed out master crafter for a very long time now. Crafting used to be more worth-while for making money, but there are so many master crafters now that I have a hard time selling sets for any decent amount. What I really care about is finishing research on all my alts so that I can do the daily writs on every character.
Research on alts is such a long and boring endeavor. By the end you're literally just logging on that toon at least once a month to start the next research. There's no skill, barely any commitment, just long waiting. These scrolls aren't P2W, it's just cutting out some of the zero-effort waiting in this game. I would much rather see additions to the crafting system that require more skill and less time than simply requiring every character to wait for months under the guise that this took "skill and effort" to accomplish.
On a side note, I really wish ZOS would make it so that maxing out a craft on one of my characters would reduce the research time for that same craft on the rest of my characters. For example, once you get the achievement for maxed out research in woodworking, you get an account-wide boost to research times for woodworking on all characters.0 -
Prof_Bawbag✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Been a 9 trait crafter for ages now and all I can say is good on ZoS for allowing others the option to bypass the inane time sink I had to endure.2 -
Ley✭✭✭✭✭
✭It's not exactly hard to find people willing to craft you just about anything for free, if you're willing to provide the mats. 9 trait crafters are a dime a dozen. People will call just about anything P2W.Leylith - MagSorc | Leyloth - StamPlar | Leynerd - MagPlar | Leylit - StamBlade | Ley Eviticus - StamDK | Leydor - MagDen | Leylum - StamSorc | Leylux - MagBlade0 -
Wreuntzylla✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭General comments to address what people have said in this thread that I find odd.
1. Crafters are getting the shaft.
Getting the shaft was the debacle that occurred with the introduction of nirnhoned.
they went a bit overboard when they setup the master writ system. Those of us that have been playing since the beginning and built crafting empires have done quite well. I think they did it in part to wash away their nirnhoned sins. Frankly, I think they have. The benefits since the master writ system released have been quite good.
2. People who have been invested heavily into the crafting system should be compensated.
I don't fully disagree. There should be some edge that isn't a barrier. The only thing that comes to mind right now is a lowering of the mindless time sinks, similarly to what they are doing with trait research.
Something like a higher achievement level that grants access to a passive that let's you accept multiple writ quests of the same type. The mindless back and forth of running master writs makes me want to poke my eyes out. Surveys also for that matter, although to a lesser extent.
3. Crafting will be worthless now.
I would probably run writs just for legendary tempers.
Which brings up a side point I should have made earlier. To make the most of the master writ system you need to be able to craft legendary items. To have enough legendary tempers coming in and still have enough to gold out your own gear takes more than just hitting 9/9. You need a bunch of toons with enough skill points, recipes, and so on. So, 9/9 isn't a complete bootstrap up to profitability.
4. Crafted Gear, especially 9/9, is bad.
I would partially agree. There are staple sets that have always been good (e.g., hundigs) and may always be good. However, they aren't 9/9 sets.
5. The end of the world is nigh.
Got me there.0 -
NewBlacksmurf✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭magictucktuck wrote: »magictucktuck wrote: »
I see what your saying here but if a people had it their way they wouldn't charge for anything and they would have no money. that's why company's charge for things and stick to their guns because if they don't people run all over them and they don't last very long. I work in aviation and you would think people with their own planes and tons of money would be "good" people but they try to cheat and scam and lie to get the cheapest price possible and we call them out all the time. they will do anything to return something THEY broke and blame the company when its blatantly their fault. ZOS takes so much crap for stuff that is just not in their control. i wouldn't mind taking your 5 bucks to save a day either.
lol now I'm just taking out my frustration of customer i have.. i think I'm off topic..
Charging a sub? Totally cool, adding 100% cosmetics to the store, also cool, charging for a large dlc when they said they would not do that, questionable, crown crates, disgusting predatory practice, crown store motifs where you HAVE to buy mimic stones to make the armor, downright intolerable, and now this? I can understand some stuff, but this is getting to the point where they are milking it.
You know have to buy NOTHING right? complaining about new products and more choices seems weird?
well i do understand the expansion thing that is questionable i agree
Of course I dont have to, that isnt the point. The point is now instead of spending the time crafting people just throw some money out and are able to craft all the most powerful craftable gear with the best traits in no time. Thats the problem. Especially when they said they wouldnt sell these things a while back, yet they have pretty much back tracked on everything.
And with crown crates, you have less choices actually. Instead of being able to direct purchase all those things in them, you have to blow tons of cash HOPING you get them. Which I did a whole once, and will never do again.
They did say they wouldn’t so to be specific people cited the mount speed training and asked....they said no to crafting specifically on ESO live. They said they would not sale cash items that have players advantage he’s over another. Selling trait unlock time reduction is technically not selling the trait item but gaaaah eso plus first and now this.
May as well sale a direct trait item too-PC (PTS)/Xbox One: NewBlacksmurf
~<{[50]}>~ looks better than *5010