new 15 day and 7 day research scrolls

Iluvrien

Niobium wrote: »

Aisle9 wrote: »

Niobium wrote: »

What I read was that people want to protect the profit they make from selling items bought with writ vouchers.

Yep, those pesky kids, that worked for a year to get where they are... totally not deserved, they should be punished!

... right ?

The scrolls won't take anything away from the people with 9 traits.. it's not like every time someone uses one a 9 trait crafter suddenly becomes an 8 trait crafter. There's zero punishment. 9 trait crafters are still 9 trait crafters. Unless, of course, you mean, they're scooping up the more difficult writs and flipping them for profit at the merchant - in which case, thank you for proving my point.

Also reasonably sure anyone who wants to do this has had plenty of time to do so.

I'm 9 traits on multiple characters - I don't care if people want to throw their money at ZOS. In fact, I hope they do. More money to ZOS so the servers keep running.

Don't need 9 traits to do writs - there's plenty of writs out there that require next to nothing.

Iluvrien wrote: »

Niobium wrote: »

What I read was that people want to protect the profit they make from selling items bought with writ vouchers.

How you read it says more about you than them.

For your consideration:

jssriot wrote: »

That's not the benefit of being a 9 trait crafter. Right now, it's being able to do more master writs, and more importantly, some that reward a very large amount of vouchers. that alone isn't p2w but doing more writs means getting more vouchers which means being able to sell items from the master writ vendor are a very nice profit.

Wreuntzylla wrote: »

Vouchers are very profitable. Furniture recipes, a number of gold recipes, target dummies, attunement stations, the 1 day research accelerator.

Now people can buy their way to something I worked towards over the life of the game, with the end result being the ruination of any voucher related market that exists....

These two were just the ones honest enough to say it.

Conclusion based on lack of evidence. You are drawing a parallel between two people who made a statement to an entire population that you assume is being dishonest. I'm not even going to dive into the fact that only one of these two people confirms that they are a 9-trait crafter in the statements that you have quoted.

I am a 9 trait crafter. My interest in not introducing the scrolls has nothing to do with selling writ vouchers (I have never sold one. Not once). You now have one statement in each direction from a confirmed 9-trait crafter.

... for your consideration.

Carbonised

These research scrolls are a continuing undermining of the real crafting system, and a huge disrespect to anyone who actually have done the time and effort to get the traits done.

Call if what you will, but good gameplay it is most certainly not.

After we saw the first ones, I'm not surprised to see them keep going doen this direction. Wait a couple updates and you will be able to buy your 9 trait research outright. They are already selling all the rare and expensive motifs in crown store and crown crates.

Either spend a godawful lot of time and gold to get all traits and all motifs - or get your credit card and get it all done in a minute.

At this rate I would rather see them sell Maelstrom weapons and Asylum weapons and Monster sets for crowns in the store, than keep hollowing out the crafting system and achievements at an ever increasing rate.

danno8

Should have tied it in with doing writs, so it was an in-game bonus.

Plus it makes sense from a logical perspective, do a writ and you gain more experience in your craft. Something like a 24 hour reduction in research times per day / per writ / per profession.

Lame that you can just buy it now, but that seems to be the way of things these days. I just came back from playing LotRO for the last 2 months and could not believe the items they have in store for maxing out your character. Anything you want, 1-115, get all class points, all Virtues, everything. Terrible.

frausty

Ohtimbar wrote: »

Meh, I have several master crafters and it wasn't worth the massive time investment. Crafted sets were eclipsed by dropped sets ages ago. If I were starting the game today I wouldn't even bother, much less spend real money on it. If people want to set their own money on fire, more power to them.

What time investment? Going to a crafting station every few days to click a research tree is hardly an investment as you would most likely be in a location to do this for writs, daily quests or banking etc.

I don't see the issue personally. If people want to pay so be it as it won't affect my enjoyment of the game or anyone elses.

magictucktuck

Carbonised wrote: »

These research scrolls are a continuing undermining of the real crafting system, and a huge disrespect to anyone who actually have done the time and effort to get the traits done.

Call if what you will, but good gameplay it is most certainly not.

After we saw the first ones, I'm not surprised to see them keep going doen this direction. Wait a couple updates and you will be able to buy your 9 trait research outright. They are already selling all the rare and expensive motifs in crown store and crown crates.

Either spend a godawful lot of time and gold to get all traits and all motifs - or get your credit card and get it all done in a minute.

At this rate I would rather see them sell Maelstrom weapons and Asylum weapons and Monster sets for crowns in the store, than keep hollowing out the crafting system and achievements at an ever increasing rate.

There is a HUGE difference in selling gear, like VMA and AS weapons since VMA most people wont get because they lack the skill to get it. where as EVERYONE no matter what skill can get crafting traits at anytime. there is no skill no requirement no no nothing, just press a button and wait so and so time.


EDIT: I mean i see where crafters are coming from but i guess i just don't agree. lowbie and new players will still need stuff crafted. most people that will use it just want to make their own gear, most players don't care about " breaking the economy" and making money. they just don't want to rely on other people for their stuff.

Carbonised

magictucktuck wrote: »

there is no skill no requirement no no nothing, just press a button and wait so and so time.

Im sorry, how many master anglers did you have again? How many 9 trait crafters are there in this game? Yeah, that's what I thought.

magictucktuck

a TON of 9 trait crafters lol and there is a HUGE difference between master angler and 9 traits. you don't need to actively do anything to get traits. where as fishing you need to devote hundreds of hours to actually standing there participating in something

you cant go anywhere without finding a 9 trait crafter

so your sarcastic comment seems pretty useless :P

@Carbonised

xbobx

the original time to research is way too long, so instead of fixing the stupid time sink, they monetized it. So, i am against it because they patched an issue with a money option.

they are getting greedier and greedier. Watch these things being stupid expensive. They better not be over 500 crowns. Of course they will probably charge 3k, because they obviously are not business savvy enough to know what they need to do to attract new players.

magictucktuck

xbobx wrote: »

the original time to research is way too long, so instead of fixing the stupid time sink, they monetized it. So, i am against it because they patched an issue with a money option.

they are getting greedier and greedier. Watch these things being stupid expensive. They better not be over 500 crowns. Of course they will probably charge 3k, because they obviously are not business savvy enough to know what they need to do to attract new players.

I can agree with this. they should have lowered the MAX time to like 10 days, so everything before 9 would be 1 day 2 day 3 day and so on. But they are a business so i cant blame them to much. but in a world where no one needs money it should have been lowered

SJD_Phoenix

The level of butt hurt on this thread is insane.

It took me nearly 2 years to get 9 traits in all items because I didn’t pay attention to my timers. Does it bother me that someone else can get that by paying for it? God no.

Wether it’s against the EULA or not people buy levelled toons and accounts, and more importantly gold which enables them to buy skin runs and vMA runs.

This community is just full of people waiting to complain.

magictucktuck

SJD_Phoenix wrote: »

The level of butt hurt on this thread is insane.

It took me nearly 2 years to get 9 traits in all items because I didn’t pay attention to my timers. Does it bother me that someone else can get that by paying for it? God no.

Wether it’s against the EULA or not people buy levelled toons and accounts, and more importantly gold which enables them to buy skin runs and vMA runs.

This community is just full of people waiting to complain.

agreed, i don't understand

xbobx

magictucktuck wrote: »

xbobx wrote: »

the original time to research is way too long, so instead of fixing the stupid time sink, they monetized it. So, i am against it because they patched an issue with a money option.

they are getting greedier and greedier. Watch these things being stupid expensive. They better not be over 500 crowns. Of course they will probably charge 3k, because they obviously are not business savvy enough to know what they need to do to attract new players.

I can agree with this. they should have lowered the MAX time to like 10 days, so everything before 9 would be 1 day 2 day 3 day and so on. But they are a business so i cant blame them to much. but in a world where no one needs money it should have been lowered

the issue is, it will in the end affect their financially because for the most part, casual players can really increase your revenue but when they see unnecessary time sinks like this, it turns them away.

magictucktuck

xbobx wrote: »

magictucktuck wrote: »

xbobx wrote: »

the original time to research is way too long, so instead of fixing the stupid time sink, they monetized it. So, i am against it because they patched an issue with a money option.

they are getting greedier and greedier. Watch these things being stupid expensive. They better not be over 500 crowns. Of course they will probably charge 3k, because they obviously are not business savvy enough to know what they need to do to attract new players.

I can agree with this. they should have lowered the MAX time to like 10 days, so everything before 9 would be 1 day 2 day 3 day and so on. But they are a business so i cant blame them to much. but in a world where no one needs money it should have been lowered

the issue is, it will in the end affect their financially because for the most part, casual players can really increase your revenue but when they see unnecessary time sinks like this, it turns them away.

well i might agree with that but there is a ton of other ways to get gear, not to mention this is not BIS gear anyways im guessing casuals could care less about the time sink for crafting, they just want to pvp or or dungeons they don't care about crafting. which in any game is usually a time sink so they probably expect that

helediron

The "master crafter" era is over in ESO. I think nine traits is now more like ordinary feat now, and i don't mind ZOS monetizing it. Just like trials and dungeons turned to normal, crafting turns casual too. It's better to think ESO now as a slightly scary Sims Medieval.

For crafters nine traits were "won" already two years ago. A year ago many regular but skilled players, to whom i regularly made nirn pieces for research, were celebrating learning their last nine traits. By now casuals get it too with LOTS of skipping researches.

Hah, lately i made many copies of nirn weapons to players who studied it in six hours by an alt and then transmuted their weapons.

Aeslief

idk wrote: »

agegarton wrote: »

No complaints from me, although I’d like the same to be available to buy/trade through the Master Writ Vendor. Assuming that’s the case, all good.

1 million vouchers. No, no. 1 billion vouchers.

deepseamk20b14_ESO

I got 9/9 traits on everything the hard way and I’m okay with this. Crafting in this game is different than other games, or at least it has a difference significance. I can understand something like in Aion where to be a master crafter and be able to sell an insanely powerful weapon where the amount of gold working up to making it not to mention chance of failure increased its worth, meant more....I forgot where I was going with this...but I’m glad ESO crafting isn’t so grindy comparatively speaking and that’s it’s attainable by anyone who puts forth at least a little effort. Scrolls are cool because most people would rather enjoy the content than be waiting days to weeks on end to be able to make something that in the end, doesn’t even have much resale value and is usually for personal use.

Karmanorway

I like it, have played for 2 years but been sloppy with the researching so im on 27 day researches per piece now lol

Dracofyre

that would mess up auction big time too.

many of us are on limited budget, and limited time to play each week, most had tried to find trait 9 motifs and cant afford.
few weeks ago, i checked for price and only had 20k gold and one of motif on auction cost 35k, and took me few days, and sellers somehow upped the prices to 70k, and i said damn, and went back to stealing strongboxes, loot the chests so i had enough to spend, and to my surprised, same items just mark up to 200k and i am nowhere near or able to craft master writ tasks i get.

now i have stacks of undoable writs that need lot of motifs that are overpriced. i tried cheap way to look and they are already cleared by earlier treasure hunters. frustrating!

trait researching with 1 day voucher just help a bit so that i can break down for materials once research are cleared.

i am not happy with devs making motifs too hard to find, they give us 2 choices, give in and go broke or quit playing when it is no longer fun to play and get sick of gold grinding, i refuse to "support" bot guilds or 3rd party sellers.

bots already destroy economy and controls with high prices and they locked down on lootable chests with "spawn alert' program when chests is ready to loot. we dont see that on minion, mostly made for themselves. that is cheating.

Iluvrien

So many of the posts for this change seem to boil down to:

"I'm not bothered by this happening because ZOS has already totally devalued crafting and this just continues the trend."

This is absolutely not what crafting was advertised to be in this game. The reason that those early intentions have fallen by the wayside is because the playerbase have allowed it.

Here are some of the things that I think the playerbase should have sent a strong message to ZOS about... and didn't:

• Removing the level bonus on crafted sets.
• Artificially extending the grind for the glass motif so that it would sell in the crown store.
• Putting crown store only motifs into the game.
• Research scrolls being introduced.
• Transmutation crystals from combat activities only.
• Transmuted items are bound so there is no post crafting resale market
• Motifs are made account-wide for the outfit system.

I don't think ZOS carries all of the blame ZOS for these changes (most of it though). They are a company, they will make money anywhere we let them. What is a stated commitment to making crafting meaningful in this game compared to the almighty dollar?

I also blame the playerbase. People allowed them to do this by not opposing it... and now seem to be patting them on the back (giving them more money) for having done it.

Colecovision

Is this still going? I have 3 traits on 3 weapons left and then I'm done. I only had plus for 67 days the whole way and I don't feel cheated in the least. The only thing that was disappointing was gimping my character in terms of skill point in an attempt to try and make my own armor as I leveled up. The skill point sink really needs to change. A new player who uses the research scrolls will be sorely disappointed when it comes skill point time. Putting that aside, research is all about getting 4 pieces of clothing, 1 wood weapon and a one handed weapon to 6 traits. With no scrolls and no eso plus, it's still not a big deal. After you have that researched, the rest is just for writs and giggles. I can't figure out any use for research beyond that.

As a rule, we shouldn't complain about eso+ advantages that are enhanced with crowns unless we complain about both. Also, we shouldn't complain about eso+ advantages because it probably keeps the game alive. I have no evidence whatsoever for that last claim, but I'm sticking to it.

Juju_beans

xbobx wrote: »

the original time to research is way too long, so instead of fixing the stupid time sink, they monetized it. So, i am against it because they patched an issue with a money option.

they are getting greedier and greedier. Watch these things being stupid expensive. They better not be over 500 crowns. Of course they will probably charge 3k, because they obviously are not business savvy enough to know what they need to do to attract new players.

This game is free to play once you buy. ESO+ is optional. They have to make money somehow.

Vimora

P2w is when you can't progress to a certain level of power without paying real money. When you can, it just takes longer, it's called "pay for convenience".

It's worth noting that p4c can become just as despicable as p2w, when taken to a certain extreme. See BDO for example. ESO, on the other hand, remains the tamest MMO on the market even with this change.

Elsonso

Iluvrien wrote: »

This is absolutely not what crafting was advertised to be in this game. The reason that those early intentions have fallen by the wayside is because the playerbase have allowed it.

This is not why.

Colecovision

lordrichter wrote: »

Iluvrien wrote: »

This is absolutely not what crafting was advertised to be in this game. The reason that those early intentions have fallen by the wayside is because the playerbase have allowed it.

This is not why.

I wasn’t here back then. The crafting system really surprised and disappointed me the more I got into it. So, what did happen? Or is my subjective opinion simply not shared by most. It certainly wouldn’t be a first time for that.

DoctorESO

.

DoctorESO

.

Iluvrien

lordrichter wrote: »

Iluvrien wrote: »

This is absolutely not what crafting was advertised to be in this game. The reason that those early intentions have fallen by the wayside is because the playerbase have allowed it.

This is not why.

You don't think so? I would be interested to hear your view.

Agalloch

This is Pay To Win and disrespect for the people who invested money and time to research...

LadyAstrum

Maybe not pay-to-win but pay-to-cheat? Not cheat in a bad way, but it will obviously help people who are pressed for time. I wouldn't waste crowns on them personally, but I can see why others would.

xbobx

Juju_beans wrote: »

xbobx wrote: »

the original time to research is way too long, so instead of fixing the stupid time sink, they monetized it. So, i am against it because they patched an issue with a money option.

they are getting greedier and greedier. Watch these things being stupid expensive. They better not be over 500 crowns. Of course they will probably charge 3k, because they obviously are not business savvy enough to know what they need to do to attract new players.

This game is free to play once you buy. ESO+ is optional. They have to make money somehow.



there is nothing wrong with making money, they have many ways to do it but there is a point where their prices are a bit on the insane side and they feel they can get away with it by artificially creating time sinks to try and push people into buying them, but all they do is push casuals out.