A Little Poem For My Beloved MDK

NirnStorm

Hey guys,
Today while reading through the PTS patch notes, I've realized my mDK is very sick and quite possibly dying, so I wrote him a nice little poem to cheer him up.
I hope you'll like it.


Twinkle twinkle little star, MDK's been nerfed so far.
Drop your block and rest your whip,
More dodgable skills have joined your leap.
Twinkle twinkle little star, MDK's been nerfed too far.

Twinkle twinkle MDK, you've been nerfed some more today.
Missed your heal and dodged your flame,
Go play nightblade for fair game.
Twinkle twinkle MDK, god-so many nerfs per day.

ak_pvp

Oh no. An ability works like the rest of the abilities like it. Shooketh.

I will say that whip has a case, since it requires setup of two prior counterable abilities. But an increase to the general amount of whips is nice, so is the stun. Strikes should have been dodgable anyway. My only thoughts is to increase the range to 10m, because it gets clunky fast when against a mobile opponent, same with foss. Its annoying when some skills can work, but others are a greyed out "*** you."

danger241

Finally! My squishy vamp NB can live

NirnStorm

ak_pvp wrote: »

Oh no. An ability works like the rest of the abilities like it. Shooketh.

I will say that whip has a case, since it requires setup of two prior counterable abilities. But an increase to the general amount of whips is nice, so is the stun. Strikes should have been dodgable anyway. My only thoughts is to increase the range to 10m, because it gets clunky fast when against a mobile opponent, same with foss. Its annoying when some skills can work, but others are a greyed out "*** you."

Started reading your comment with a "Oh gosh, here comes the hate" mindset, but you make a valid point.
The main issue with Strike, which is the mDK's biggest heal, is how hard it is to land it on targets, and making it dodgeable will just make it worse. But your suggestion is right, if it has a better range, even though it is dodgeable, it would be far easier to utilize and will work better by far. Same goes for the range of fossilize.

techprince

Good

Quantum_V

Haha, this is great!!

Now can people stop getting triggered at jokes. He's not QQing, he's not complaining, he's just being satirical about it. If you feel the urge to complain about a joke poem I seriously suggest you take a deep breath (no pun intended) and chill out. Thank you for your comprehension. Much love to all.

NirnStorm

Quantum_V wrote: »

Haha, this is great!!

Now can people stop getting triggered at jokes. He's not QQing, he's not complaining, he's just being satirical about it. If you feel the urge to complain about a joke poem I seriously suggest you take a deep breath (no pun intended) and chill out. Thank you for your comprehension. Much love to all.

Ily Quantum and that pun was 100% intended, admit it.

Stamden

ak_pvp wrote: »

Oh no. An ability works like the rest of the abilities like it. Shooketh.

I will say that whip has a case, since it requires setup of two prior counterable abilities. But an increase to the general amount of whips is nice, so is the stun. Strikes should have been dodgable anyway. My only thoughts is to increase the range to 10m, because it gets clunky fast when against a mobile opponent, same with foss. Its annoying when some skills can work, but others are a greyed out "*** you."

They are nerfing an already underperforming class. If they want to make our abilities be "like the rest of the abilities like it" , then they need to make other changes to make DK's not in such a terrible position. Although really Flame Lash should remain undodgeable regardless due to the amount of setup it requires. There is no other ability in the game that is like it anyway, so you can't really make that argument.

Savos_Saren

ak_pvp wrote: »

Oh no. An ability works like the rest of the abilities like it. Shooketh.

I will say that whip has a case, since it requires setup of two prior counterable abilities. But an increase to the general amount of whips is nice, so is the stun. Strikes should have been dodgable anyway. My only thoughts is to increase the range to 10m, because it gets clunky fast when against a mobile opponent, same with foss. Its annoying when some skills can work, but others are a greyed out "*** you."

I love it when people point out stuff like this... and then if we ask for an execute or functional form of expedition- they’re quick to say “not everyone needs the same skills...”

KingExecration

I gave up after wrath nerf, I sensed the incoming storm and swapped. Loving magplar because it uses same sets as dk. I'll dust my dk off again next year at some point. Maybe lol.

pieratsos

Savos_Saren wrote: »

ak_pvp wrote: »

Oh no. An ability works like the rest of the abilities like it. Shooketh.

I will say that whip has a case, since it requires setup of two prior counterable abilities. But an increase to the general amount of whips is nice, so is the stun. Strikes should have been dodgable anyway. My only thoughts is to increase the range to 10m, because it gets clunky fast when against a mobile opponent, same with foss. Its annoying when some skills can work, but others are a greyed out "*** you."

I love it when people point out stuff like this... and then if we ask for an execute or functional form of expedition- they’re quick to say “not everyone needs the same skills...”

Just because all abilities of the same type need to function in the same way it doesnt mean that all classes should have the same abilities. The initial cast is dodgeable and blockable like every other single target instant cast non channel ability. The dot is undodgeable and unblockable just like every other dot. The same happened with other abilities too.

ak_pvp

Savos_Saren wrote: »

ak_pvp wrote: »

Oh no. An ability works like the rest of the abilities like it. Shooketh.

I will say that whip has a case, since it requires setup of two prior counterable abilities. But an increase to the general amount of whips is nice, so is the stun. Strikes should have been dodgable anyway. My only thoughts is to increase the range to 10m, because it gets clunky fast when against a mobile opponent, same with foss. Its annoying when some skills can work, but others are a greyed out "*** you."

I love it when people point out stuff like this... and then if we ask for an execute or functional form of expedition- they’re quick to say “not everyone needs the same skills...”

On executes, its a little weird. I have commented around about it.

It's like mnbs lack of a burst heal, or sorcs lack of a spammable. Both these have replacements, and so did executes on dk... Until this patch.

In ye olde days dks had the best dots, and then recently power whip acted like a defacto execute replacement. Dealing more damage than a normal spammable in pve, and about the same as an execute in pvp, whilst being undodgable.

However now I feel like an execute is more in order. Maybe something small tied to dots, hell they could go full out and donate a cheeky implosion, but eh.

Expedition would just not fit the class Imo, hell even chains is goofy. It's not meant to be fast, but shouldn't be in this state and needs something, block, nerfed, wings, nerfed, mobility, bad. So a unique non fast, but fitting with the theme of an unstoppable dragon would benare removal on wings. It'd also be a unique buff.

KhajiitHasSkooma

ZOS should take the morph of chains that pulls you to target and allow it to pull to enemy or ally. Only makes sense.

Kilandros

I don't have a problem with the initial hit on Burning Embers being dodgeable. I'm all for the majority of abilities acting consistently across the board.

I don't even have a problem with Power Lash being dodgeable had mDK received compensation elsewhere. Unfortunately, mDK has the worst burst and the worst sustain of any class. Dodgeable Power Lash means our non-Ultimate burst has taken a pretty significant hit. Every other magicka class has some form of non-ultimate burst--except mDK; Warden has Shalk, Templar has Power of the Light, Sorc has Curse/Frag, NB has Assassin's Will. All of those abilities either hit hard and most of them have a delay so as to ignore global cooldowns when they fire (Assassin's Will being the exception, but that hits really really hard. Power Lash damage does not come close to Assassin's Will, thus I distinguish between the two for purposes of true burst). Additionally, Sorc/NB/Templar have an execute to go with that burst.

mDK is the only magicka class without a non-ultimate burst ability, and one of two magicka classes without an execute (Technically mDK is the *only* magicka class without an execute since Warden's Bear does technically act as an execute).

What ZOS should have done was seize this opportunity to make mDK the true attrition class of ESO. That is, the lowest available burst, no execute, but hard-hitting DoTs and the best sustain. That would be balanced. Unfortunately, we have the lowest burst, no execute, and the worst sustain.

ak_pvp

KhajiitHasSkooma wrote: »

ZOS should take the morph of chains that pulls you to target and allow it to pull to enemy or ally. Only makes sense.

+ Seems interesting, though I doubt it'd happen cuz warden.

Kilandros wrote: »

I don't have a problem with the initial hit on Burning Embers being dodgeable. I'm all for the majority of abilities acting consistently across the board.

I don't even have a problem with Power Lash being dodgeable had mDK received compensation elsewhere. Unfortunately, mDK has the worst burst and the worst sustain of any class. Dodgeable Power Lash means our non-Ultimate burst has taken a pretty significant hit. Every other magicka class has some form of non-ultimate burst--except mDK; Warden has Shalk, Templar has Power of the Light, Sorc has Curse/Frag, NB has Assassin's Will. All of those abilities either hit hard and most of them have a delay so as to ignore global cooldowns when they fire (Assassin's Will being the exception, but that hits really really hard. Power Lash damage does not come close to Assassin's Will, thus I distinguish between the two for purposes of true burst). Additionally, Sorc/NB/Templar have an execute to go with that burst.

mDK is the only magicka class without a non-ultimate burst ability, and one of two magicka classes without an execute (Technically mDK is the *only* magicka class without an execute since Warden's Bear does technically act as an execute).

What ZOS should have done was seize this opportunity to make mDK the true attrition class of ESO. That is, the lowest available burst, no execute, but hard-hitting DoTs and the best sustain. That would be balanced. Unfortunately, we have the lowest burst, no execute, and the worst sustain.

Idk, I use FOO, embers, then go into foss/talons, deep breath, powerlash with some good success. Skoria has a decent chance of proc too. Foss is probably the better option for it since it gets med users more successfully, and is cheaper than talons, but if there is a group, some added pressure is cute.

I generally agree though. Dots used to be DKs forte, and usable instead of executes to melt people, then power lash, now nothing.

Kilandros

ak_pvp wrote: »

KhajiitHasSkooma wrote: »

ZOS should take the morph of chains that pulls you to target and allow it to pull to enemy or ally. Only makes sense.

+ Seems interesting, though I doubt it'd happen cuz warden.

Kilandros wrote: »

I don't have a problem with the initial hit on Burning Embers being dodgeable. I'm all for the majority of abilities acting consistently across the board.

I don't even have a problem with Power Lash being dodgeable had mDK received compensation elsewhere. Unfortunately, mDK has the worst burst and the worst sustain of any class. Dodgeable Power Lash means our non-Ultimate burst has taken a pretty significant hit. Every other magicka class has some form of non-ultimate burst--except mDK; Warden has Shalk, Templar has Power of the Light, Sorc has Curse/Frag, NB has Assassin's Will. All of those abilities either hit hard and most of them have a delay so as to ignore global cooldowns when they fire (Assassin's Will being the exception, but that hits really really hard. Power Lash damage does not come close to Assassin's Will, thus I distinguish between the two for purposes of true burst). Additionally, Sorc/NB/Templar have an execute to go with that burst.

mDK is the only magicka class without a non-ultimate burst ability, and one of two magicka classes without an execute (Technically mDK is the *only* magicka class without an execute since Warden's Bear does technically act as an execute).

What ZOS should have done was seize this opportunity to make mDK the true attrition class of ESO. That is, the lowest available burst, no execute, but hard-hitting DoTs and the best sustain. That would be balanced. Unfortunately, we have the lowest burst, no execute, and the worst sustain.

Idk, I use FOO, embers, then go into foss/talons, deep breath, powerlash with some good success. Skoria has a decent chance of proc too. Foss is probably the better option for it since it gets med users more successfully, and is cheaper than talons, but if there is a group, some added pressure is cute.

Obviously I didn't include burst from proc sets like Skoria for a reason. With Skoria any magicka class has solid burst.

Savos_Saren

So Wardens and Templars both have class abilities that purge our damage- which is supposed to heal us- AND their own purge heals them. NBs can now easily dodge our damage (via shuffle or mirage) and sorcs scoff at our attacks with their shields.

These DK nerfs are to make other classes appealing, right?

KingExecration

Savos_Saren wrote: »

So Wardens and Templars both have class abilities that purge our damage- which is supposed to heal us- AND their own purge heals them. NBs can now easily dodge our damage (via shuffle or mirage) and sorcs scoff at our attacks with their shields.

These DK nerfs are to make other classes appealing, right?

Very much more appealing, so much more appealing I made my first stam character.

Minalan

Too much drama here
Your dragon knight will be fine
Dodge roll specs were buffed

KhajiitHasSkooma

*** it. I'm rerolling my mDK to be healer. Already managed to heal vCoS HM on second pull with a cp200 player in group. Will probably do well in PVP too. Clearly, damage is not where they want the class to go. Or maybe change it to a debuff tank. Going to use a name change token too and go with "Duroktard".

Ocelot9x

I love how mag dks complain about everything every time.
Have you ever tried fighting a magdk on a medium character? Literally every skill was undodgeable lol now you have to time your skill like the rest of us.

Savos_Saren

Ocelot9x wrote: »

I love how mag dks complain about everything every time.
Have you ever tried fighting a magdk on a medium character? Literally every skill was undodgeable lol now you have to time your skill like the rest of us.

I love it when people say “...but...but duels...”

Oh yay! Instead of participating in AvA or PVE- DKs can just hang out at wayshrines in Grahtwood or Rawl’ka. Just spamming people with duel requests so that we can use our class.

And last I checked- medium armor builds can quick kill you before you can even react. At least you can see an mDK waddling up to the fight.

DDuke

Savos_Saren wrote: »

Ocelot9x wrote: »

I love how mag dks complain about everything every time.
Have you ever tried fighting a magdk on a medium character? Literally every skill was undodgeable lol now you have to time your skill like the rest of us.

I love it when people say “...but...but duels...”

Oh yay! Instead of participating in AvA or PVE- DKs can just hang out at wayshrines in Grahtwood or Rawl’ka. Just spamming people with duel requests so that we can use our class.

And last I checked- medium armor builds can quick kill you before you can even react. At least you can see an mDK waddling up to the fight.

With proper CP allocation & 7 impen, no medium build can ever kill you before you can react if you're above 19k health or have a shield up.

It's not mathematically possible.

KhajiitHasSkooma

Ocelot9x wrote: »

I love how mag dks complain about everything every time.
Have you ever tried fighting a magdk on a medium character? Literally every skill was undodgeable lol now you have to time your skill like the rest of us.

Yeah, stamplar eats magDKs because it can purge off all the negative effects, while applying crazy burst. Warden can burst so hard it was kind of ridiculous. NBs can apply dots and hide/kite the mDK. In all honesty, I hardly have issues against magDKs when playing a stam toon because magDKs lack mobility so badly. So keep the pressure up. They will run out of resources, you can go in and finish the kill. Or just have them land in one rearming trap and dawnbreaker and rip. I'll probably be playing a lot more on my stamplar/stamden after these changes go live.

Savos_Saren

DDuke wrote: »

Savos_Saren wrote: »

Ocelot9x wrote: »

I love how mag dks complain about everything every time.
Have you ever tried fighting a magdk on a medium character? Literally every skill was undodgeable lol now you have to time your skill like the rest of us.

I love it when people say “...but...but duels...”

Oh yay! Instead of participating in AvA or PVE- DKs can just hang out at wayshrines in Grahtwood or Rawl’ka. Just spamming people with duel requests so that we can use our class.

And last I checked- medium armor builds can quick kill you before you can even react. At least you can see an mDK waddling up to the fight.

With proper CP allocation & 7 impen, no medium build can ever kill you before you can react if you're above 19k health or have a shield up.

It's not mathematically possible.

From stealth: Ambush, Incap Strike, Fear, spam Surprise attack while opponent is unable to break free (bug), Killers Blade FTW.

It happens a lot in BGs.

IZZEFlameLash

Lol medium armor builds cannot kill a mDK with 7 impen and "proper" CP setup? Only in ideal world. In this world of debuffs, mDK will be turned into shreds by properly built medium builds. Stamblade, for example, applies major defile and disease damage, which with a bit of points into defile, effectively shuts down dragonblood which costs a lot. Or medium dot builds, they can shut mDK heals outside of ember down quickly with bleeding. Add quad health poison or resource poison on top of that? Watch mDK expend the magicka trying to heal without much effect. Mobility of them also make it hard for DK to land anything outside of usual fossilize combo. Even that has been limited with range nerf and bug where you just cannot fossilize even in proper setting because it is greyed out conveniently :^)

When I play stam build, I do not fear mDK, I fear other classes where mDK is the easiest to avoid the fights with. Even in heavy, mDK only prolongs death by few seconds anyways.

I'd be all for mDK skills being consistent with other skills IF current mDK status was consistent with others. If not, why are we nerfing already nerfed class. We wear 5 Heavy Nerfed Class set pieces in battle anyways.

Solohope

Savos_Saren wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Savos_Saren wrote: »

Ocelot9x wrote: »

I love how mag dks complain about everything every time.
Have you ever tried fighting a magdk on a medium character? Literally every skill was undodgeable lol now you have to time your skill like the rest of us.

I love it when people say “...but...but duels...”

Oh yay! Instead of participating in AvA or PVE- DKs can just hang out at wayshrines in Grahtwood or Rawl’ka. Just spamming people with duel requests so that we can use our class.

And last I checked- medium armor builds can quick kill you before you can even react. At least you can see an mDK waddling up to the fight.

With proper CP allocation & 7 impen, no medium build can ever kill you before you can react if you're above 19k health or have a shield up.

It's not mathematically possible.

From stealth: Ambush, Incap Strike, Fear, spam Surprise attack while opponent is unable to break free (bug), Killers Blade FTW.

It happens a lot in BGs.

I like how you added a bug to prove an argument. Like with bugs anything is possible. Also, how squishy and unreactive do you have to be that 3 abilities get you to and less than 25%?

Vapirko

I’m just gonna toss out a prediction: mag DKs will be fine. Perhaps many people will jump off the bandwagon but as always there will be people who stay and figure out how to play them well.

DDuke

Savos_Saren wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Savos_Saren wrote: »

Ocelot9x wrote: »

I love how mag dks complain about everything every time.
Have you ever tried fighting a magdk on a medium character? Literally every skill was undodgeable lol now you have to time your skill like the rest of us.

I love it when people say “...but...but duels...”

Oh yay! Instead of participating in AvA or PVE- DKs can just hang out at wayshrines in Grahtwood or Rawl’ka. Just spamming people with duel requests so that we can use our class.

And last I checked- medium armor builds can quick kill you before you can even react. At least you can see an mDK waddling up to the fight.

With proper CP allocation & 7 impen, no medium build can ever kill you before you can react if you're above 19k health or have a shield up.

It's not mathematically possible.

From stealth: Ambush, Incap Strike, Fear, spam Surprise attack while opponent is unable to break free (bug), Killers Blade FTW.

It happens a lot in BGs.

If that's a bug on Live, I haven't encountered it yet - I'm always able to CC Break Incap & get the CC Immunity.

I'll do some testing tomorrow.

IZZESparkling wrote: »

Lol medium armor builds cannot kill a mDK with 7 impen and "proper" CP setup? Only in ideal world. In this world of debuffs, mDK will be turned into shreds by properly built medium builds. Stamblade, for example, applies major defile and disease damage, which with a bit of points into defile, effectively shuts down dragonblood which costs a lot. Or medium dot builds, they can shut mDK heals outside of ember down quickly with bleeding. Add quad health poison or resource poison on top of that? Watch mDK expend the magicka trying to heal without much effect. Mobility of them also make it hard for DK to land anything outside of usual fossilize combo. Even that has been limited with range nerf and bug where you just cannot fossilize even in proper setting because it is greyed out conveniently :^)

When I play stam build, I do not fear mDK, I fear other classes where mDK is the easiest to avoid the fights with. Even in heavy, mDK only prolongs death by few seconds anyways.

I'd be all for mDK skills being consistent with other skills IF current mDK status was consistent with others. If not, why are we nerfing already nerfed class. We wear 5 Heavy Nerfed Class set pieces in battle anyways.

...and that's why I play a Healing Ward based build. My Healing Ward at 4,2k spell dmg & 36k magicka>any damage a stamblade (or any stam build) can throw at me.

Then Fossilize->FL->Leap->PL dead stam build.


Haven't seen a medium armor build live longer than 20 seconds & I've fought pretty much everyone relevant on PC EU.
They do a little better on PTS, but it's still very onesided and ends quickly in favour of mDK.


I reported that Fossilize bug btw: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/382162/fossilize-bugged#latest

Really annoying when it happens, but luckily doesn't happen that often.

Savos_Saren

DDuke wrote: »

Savos_Saren wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Savos_Saren wrote: »

Ocelot9x wrote: »

I love how mag dks complain about everything every time.
Have you ever tried fighting a magdk on a medium character? Literally every skill was undodgeable lol now you have to time your skill like the rest of us.

I love it when people say “...but...but duels...”

Oh yay! Instead of participating in AvA or PVE- DKs can just hang out at wayshrines in Grahtwood or Rawl’ka. Just spamming people with duel requests so that we can use our class.

And last I checked- medium armor builds can quick kill you before you can even react. At least you can see an mDK waddling up to the fight.

With proper CP allocation & 7 impen, no medium build can ever kill you before you can react if you're above 19k health or have a shield up.

It's not mathematically possible.

From stealth: Ambush, Incap Strike, Fear, spam Surprise attack while opponent is unable to break free (bug), Killers Blade FTW.

It happens a lot in BGs.

If that's a bug on Live, I haven't encountered it yet - I'm always able to CC Break Incap & get the CC Immunity.

I'll do some testing tomorrow.

IZZESparkling wrote: »

Lol medium armor builds cannot kill a mDK with 7 impen and "proper" CP setup? Only in ideal world. In this world of debuffs, mDK will be turned into shreds by properly built medium builds. Stamblade, for example, applies major defile and disease damage, which with a bit of points into defile, effectively shuts down dragonblood which costs a lot. Or medium dot builds, they can shut mDK heals outside of ember down quickly with bleeding. Add quad health poison or resource poison on top of that? Watch mDK expend the magicka trying to heal without much effect. Mobility of them also make it hard for DK to land anything outside of usual fossilize combo. Even that has been limited with range nerf and bug where you just cannot fossilize even in proper setting because it is greyed out conveniently :^)

When I play stam build, I do not fear mDK, I fear other classes where mDK is the easiest to avoid the fights with. Even in heavy, mDK only prolongs death by few seconds anyways.

I'd be all for mDK skills being consistent with other skills IF current mDK status was consistent with others. If not, why are we nerfing already nerfed class. We wear 5 Heavy Nerfed Class set pieces in battle anyways.

...and that's why I play a Healing Ward based build. My Healing Ward at 4,2k spell dmg & 36k magicka>any damage a stamblade (or any stam build) can throw at me.

Then Fossilize->FL->Leap->PL dead stam build.


Haven't seen a medium armor build live longer than 20 seconds & I've fought pretty much everyone relevant on PC EU.
They do a little better on PTS, but it's still very onesided and ends quickly in favour of mDK.


I reported that Fossilize bug btw: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/382162/fossilize-bugged#latest

Really annoying when it happens, but luckily doesn't happen that often.

Yeah, Fear has been broken for a long time. Here's just three posts within the last month:

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/4768005#Comment_4768005
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/4729343#Comment_4729343
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/4729343#Comment_4729343 (this one is about multiple CC breaks)

I think the main issue that DKs have with your build is that it doesn't have the team element of crowd control in it for AvA. I know that you've run in Cyrodiil with it- but it doesn't provide Choking Talons (which will be major with this next update), Cinder Storm, Deep Breath, or Standard. All of these skills are for group play.

Don't get me wrong- it is a great build. But it's more set up for dueling and fighting few opponents. Most Cyrodiil groups need those talons and the AOEs to help with XvX fights.

IZZEFlameLash

It is a good build but you also will be subject to well timed burst (which is always the case with the competent players of any classes and builds) and most of the time for me, lag and buggy cc break (300 pings and above) combined results in death. No time to shield myself. I think I also said that just as much as I get shredded, I shred medium builds as well. But the point is that medium armor builds are hardly helpless. I don't know about EU but in NA, they are hardly helpless against mDK.