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A Guide to Aggro

antimawkish
antimawkish
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It's all about who hit the mob last.

TL;DR
Excluding special mechanics, mob aggro table is based entirely on a combination of "who hit me first" and an astonishingly short attention span. The person who first taps the mob, either by hitting it as they pull or simply having a heal tick after it's been alerted to your presence, will get somewhere in the range of 7 seconds (+/-2) of aggro on that mob. At that point, if that person is still attacking without interruption, they will maintain that aggro until they are interrupted. If, however, that person does nothing after that first tap, the mob will swap to whoever has attacked them most recently at that point in time.

Background
First up, a quick definition: In this context, "Aggro" is basically who a hostile NPC or monster (a.k.a. mob or boss) wants to attack. If you have aggro, you're about to get smacked.

To find out just how hostiles decide who to attack in ESO, I took a tank and some dps buddies out to test just how the heck aggro mechanics work with your average dungeon boss. I've done a lot of tanking, including plenty without bothering to taunt, so I thought I had a decent grasp on aggro mechanics, but I was inspired by a post on the forums to see if I could find some hard values. I thought dps+shields+heals must have to exceed a certain % value of whoever pulled first before aggro changed. I was so wrong.

It's about recent activity, not total output. We tested facepulling, dps, healing+dps+shielding, burst vs consistent dps, proximity, and a few other variables you can preview in the "Methods" spoiler below. For information on where and how we did this, see "Testing Variables." The only thing we didn't do was taunt. We're open to additional ideas, but we felt like all of this testing led us to a very clear conclusion:

Aggro in Practice
To look at an extreme example, consider the final boss in vCoA1. We have a group of 3 sorcs. The first sorc, Anti, runs in and hits the boss with a single light attack, then just stands around doing nothing but absorbing damage. Our second sorc, Moo, spams his lightning weapon attack. Moo is wearing no gear, mind you, and his staff was picked up off a trash mob three pulls ago, so he's doing less than 2% of the dps at best. Our final sorc, Fish, gets straight to work and proceeds to deal direct damage to the tune of 98% of our dps. Now, we already know the boss is going to attack Anti for ~7 seconds, but who do you think he will go for next? The one absolutely and visibly demolishing him, or the naked dude who is basically tickling him?

Moo pulls aggro. Then Moo dies, because he's a good sport and took off all his gear for his shameful role in this test, and the boss proceeds to return fire on Fish, who is still demolishing him at this point. Fish already has taken a concerning chunk of this mob's health away while Anti has done exactly as much as you'd expect from an Anti (nothing but laugh at Moo's death). If Fish stops attacking at this point out of the sheer hopelessness of this group and Anti musters the care to cast any single damage or attack, you know what happens? You're absolutely right if you guessed this poor memory-less boss then switches to the person who has contributes 2 buttons clicks so far.


Testing Variables
Location: We did all of our testing in vFG1 and vCoA1. FG1 and CoA1 because there were plenty of bosses with minimal confounding mechanics and vet because it gave us enough hit points to achieve reasonable time and dps numbers. Special thanks go out to the first mini-boss in vFG1, who provided an especially convenient target since it is very easy to reset, thus allowing us to test dozens of strategies and duplicate curious findings. We mostly moved on to vCoA1 to replicate our findings on additional bosses and to test out additional factors on a ranged boss (the final boss).

Characters: We used sorcs for all testing. The availability of heals, shields, dots, dd, and hots that could be used independently of each other as well as the flexibility to be at range or next to a boss allowed us to test a comfortable variety of effects. For most effects, we used two characters. One was a tank+heal hybrid that is primarily magicka, the other was pure mag dps. For our final round of testing, we brought in an additional magsorc who did an outstanding job being an absolute crap dps who wore nothing but a random green lightning staff and spammed light attack (more on that in methods, though).

Addons: Our primary tool for getting times, dps, hps, and other values was Combat Metrics. Initially, we took screenshots when aggro swapped to capture values, but eventually we swapped to self-reporting as thresholds became clear and our goals shifted toward testing extremes.

Limitations: By no means did we get enough of a sample size to capture exact values on reset times and additional, more precise testing is needed to know exactly what the timer is on aggro reset.

Methods
Facepulling: No efffect. I removed all passives that would tick a heal, shield, or damage. My only buffs were food and items that stritctly affect my own stats. I then walked up to the mob and stood there (sort of -- it took me a couple attempts to not instinctively do tank stuff). The mob immediately peeled off me to the dps.

Initial Hit: Worth approximately 7 seconds of aggro. Our average observed time when the dps would pull off me was 7-8seconds, but I suspect some delays in effects would lower that value. I would tap the mob, then do nothing. The dps tried both immediately laying into the boss with high-damage attacks and waiting to the count of 5 before attacking. Either way, the boss switched to the DPS when the ~7seconds was up.

Blocking: Added no visible difference in duration of aggro held.

Bubble: Doubled duration of aggro held. I cast sorc bubble and made initial tap on the boss, with DPS attacking only after I had made initial contact as usual. Boss did not switch target to the DPS until after 15 seconds, with variable duration on repeat testing but always much longer than initial tap alone. I suspect the shield acts like a heal in that every time the boss took a chunk of it, the boss registered my tank as having done something, and he swapped only when there was a gap in his attacks long enough for DPS actions to tick prior to my bubble.

Healing: More testing is on the docket to determine effects or lackthereof on overhealing. Overhealing and the uneven nature of damage received makes me wary to make any strong conclusions on our results, but we did try a few rounds with healing. We do know direct heals, such as twilight matriarch's ability, are able to pull aggro outside of the ~7sec period. Mutagen was not enough to hold aggro. but this ability in particular was tricky since it combines both gaps in actual healing (vs overhealing) due to variable boss damage and the ability's ticks per time nature (I don't know it's casting rate offhand -- let's say once per second). Healing springs was easier to control casting rate (spam like you've got a master's resto and all stamina, baby, yeaaah) and the first tick does appear to count toward aggro, but it was not as effective as weapon spamming and I couldn't tease out whether additional ticks of it's heal count or the overhealing issue.

All-In: Unlimited aggro duation as long as no gap in activity. I ran in and weaved aoe (liquid lightining)+weapon attack (resto staff)+bubble (empowered ward)+healing springs without pause. The DPS laid into the boss, getting as high as 4x my total heal+dps+absorbed numbers without pulling aggro.

Weapon Attack Spam: Unlimited aggro duration as long as no gap in activity. With a sword n board, I ran up and spammed light attack and DPS only pulled aggro if the boss knocked me back or I had to pause to cast bubble. Without the range limitations on my resto staff, I was able to maintain aggro for the full duration of the fight simply by spamming heavy attack.

Proximity: No observed effect on aggro. We tried with single DPS standing close vs as distance and the only difference was how long it took the boss to actually reach them, not how long until it actually turned. We then tried on the ranged final boss in vCoA1, using the setup from the "Aggro in Practice" example in the main summary above (i.e., 3 characters, one weapon spamming, one DD, one initial tap only) with alternating patterns of who was standing in the boss' immediate reach vs who was at range. Regardless of where we positioned our characters, the boss always went for the weapon spammer.

Pets: Twilight Matriarch has an independent aggro table. I made initial tap, DPS started in after, then I began to spam flappy's heal after the initial time was up. If aggro swapped to DPS and they ceased action, a heal from pet turned aggro onto it.

So, folks, this is why healers get so much aggro -- their constant ticks of heals always have them sitting fresh on mobs memories. This is why I will let you die if you sprint ahead of my fast-pulling tank just to get the first light attack hit on a group of mobs (especially if you proceed to spread them out rather than group them up like my tank, but that's a separate topic). Aggro has nothing to do with output/input and everything to do with activity.

This is all helpful, perhaps even vindicating info, and highly entertaining to certain nerds among us just for testing's sake. That said, I thought I'd throw in some suggested ways to apply what we know of aggro into your gameplay:
  • Taunts are still super great since they allow you pause attacks long enough to, say, block/bash/move/switch targets...
  • Let the person who is supposed to have aggro make initial contact.
  • If you are pulling, lay down the biggest aoe you got, and lay it down a couple times if you have to spread over the mobs you want. Then just tell your dps to burn it all in 5sec or deal with aggro (or keep casting aoe effects, you soft-hearted pleb).
  • If you need to swap aggro without taunt, swap who is actively attacking it (keeping in mind that heals- and damage-over time effects will keep ticking for their duration).

Edit Log
1/25/2018: Fixed formatting, added pet, healing, and proximity test descriptions to Methods.
Edited by antimawkish on January 25, 2018 9:51PM
  • Acrolas
    Acrolas
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    Step 1: Templar
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  • Rainraven
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    Cool. Thanks for testing that.

    I thought it was about damage and heal strength. :#
  • Fischman
    Fischman
    Soul Shriven
    ayyy! This was hilariously fun testing. Thanks for including me xD
    Edited by Fischman on January 25, 2018 4:11PM
  • antimawkish
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    Sixty5 wrote: »
    aggro.jpg

    Interesting and well written post OP, pretty interesting in how those mechanics work.

    Would be interesting to know how things work if you have two ground AOEs from two different people, with no other damage output from either. Would the boss go for the last cast, or the last tick of damage?

    That's a great idea! I can have the other DPS drop his liquid lightning almost immediately after mine, then I think I'd need to rely on multiple tests to determine who is actually getting the last tick when the boss gets his recurring amnesia. Then we can see who gets aggro every time and compare it against the "initial tap" variable (i.e., does it matter who pulled first if it's past the first 7sec).
  • Sixty5
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    Sixty5 wrote: »
    aggro.jpg

    Interesting and well written post OP, pretty interesting in how those mechanics work.

    Would be interesting to know how things work if you have two ground AOEs from two different people, with no other damage output from either. Would the boss go for the last cast, or the last tick of damage?

    That's a great idea! I can have the other DPS drop his liquid lightning almost immediately after mine, then I think I'd need to rely on multiple tests to determine who is actually getting the last tick when the boss gets his recurring amnesia. Then we can see who gets aggro every time and compare it against the "initial tap" variable (i.e., does it matter who pulled first if it's past the first 7sec).

    Could also be worth testing skills with different tick rates, have one person use Liquid Lightning, and another use Volley, given that volley deals damage every 0.5 seconds and LL ticks every second, should make it easier to see if aggro is drawn by last tick or last cast.
    Lord and Savior of the Association of Serious S***posters.

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  • tommalmm
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    Hmm... Interesting. But what about cases when no one stops attacking and the boss still switches aggro? I'll have to test it again, but it definitely happens. Is it rather "whoever had the most recent damage/heal tick prior to aggro switch, gets the aggro until next switch". Unless that's what you meant and it's just me who didn't understand. If not, then it contradicts with my testing. (it's hard to "stop damage" when there is 100% uptime on aoe like caltrops and nearly 100% uptime on others... and the boss still switches aggro).
  • HatchetHaro
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    Awesome stuff OP. I love the thorough testing you have done.
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  • Morgul667
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    Thanks. Appreciate the post
  • Morgul667
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    Thanks. Appreciate the post
  • VaranisArano
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    As someone who mains a tank, this is very, very interesting. Thank you for testing this, OP and friends!

    It definitely lends credence to the tactics of "let the tank pull the mobs if you want the tank to hold the aggro" at least for the first seven seconds, and gives me a timeline for how to maintain that aggro over the mob instead of seeing adds head for the healer over time.
  • DMuehlhausen
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    Love it when the TL:DR is longer than the first part of the post...
  • antimawkish
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    Ymogn wrote: »
    At the end of the initial ~7 second aggro period, assuming the healer gets aggro next because nobody has hit the mob and rapid regeneration ticked most recently: Does the healer then have the mob for ~7 seconds, or if someone hits it does it switch? I guess the question could be better worded as, is the ~7 second aggro period a cycle that continues on as future ~7 second aggro periods, or is it only for the initial period, where afterwards the mob goes after whoever hit it most recently?

    We weren't able to nail down the exact time on the aggro reset after DPS pulled off me because the animation delays, but there did appear to be a delay before the boss swapped back to me. We took dots off the DPS bar and used only DD for a lot of the testing specifically to have more control over the timing of damage, though, and it looked like we got DPS active the second a boss swapped. At the same time, I would immediately star laying in with my spells and weapon once I saw aggro swap.

    So, it does appear there is a cyclic timer of some sort. I hypothesize it's something like 7sec->aggro check (i.e., who hits the boss first at this point->7sec->aggro check->repeat.

    tommalmm wrote: »
    Hmm... Interesting. But what about cases when no one stops attacking and the boss still switches aggro? I'll have to test it again, but it definitely happens. Is it rather "whoever had the most recent damage/heal tick prior to aggro switch, gets the aggro until next switch". Unless that's what you meant and it's just me who didn't understand. If not, then it contradicts with my testing. (it's hard to "stop damage" when there is 100% uptime on aoe like caltrops and nearly 100% uptime on others... and the boss still switches aggro).

    Yes! We did encounter this once or twice, but only in rotations where there was anything resembling a gap in my activity. So you're circling something like the same hypothesis above that I need to test more on.
    Edited by antimawkish on January 25, 2018 1:26PM
  • antimawkish
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    Love it when the TL:DR is longer than the first part of the post...

    I meant for it to be a separate section of just that paragraph and have the next section bolded so that was more visible, but I don't seem to be able to edit my original post right now :(

    Edit: It's fixed now!
    Edited by antimawkish on January 25, 2018 3:41PM
  • The_Brosteen
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    Are you sure theres no correlation between damage and aggro? Many times it seems to me that lowest dps will aggro unintentionally. This is usually the guy light attacking with his bow on the opposite side of the room, taking the boss out of any aoes. My theory became lower dps pulls aggro, unless you stop attacking for some duration, which is apparently 7 sec, then next lowest dps takes aggro.
  • antimawkish
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    Are you sure theres no correlation between damage and aggro? Many times it seems to me that lowest dps will aggro unintentionally. This is usually the guy light attacking with his bow on the opposite side of the room, taking the boss out of any aoes. My theory became lower dps pulls aggro, unless you stop attacking for some duration, which is apparently 7 sec, then next lowest dps takes aggro.

    I'm not sure of anything. That disclaimer aside, we couldn't find any correlation between damage and aggro. I was always the lowest output (dps+hps+shields) and could not maintain aggro by being crappy, only by being very actively crappy (or not crappy, whatever). If I can round up our extra dps tester again, though, I'll try to add in a test where we try to have the highest damage output being the weapon spammer and the lowest be doing the direct damage (i.e., swap their roles from the extreme example).
  • Sawzallz
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    Also dogs have like a 300 meter aggro radius,
  • BlanketFort
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    Thanks for this, the work is greatly appreciated :)
  • zassasaurus
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    Did you test it with the healer just healing to see if that pulls aggro (without them having to do damage)? Seems strange to me that you can cast heals on a non aggroed boss and it does t pull him, but then once the fight is going it can aggro him.
  • antimawkish
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    Did you test it with the healer just healing to see if that pulls aggro (without them having to do damage)? Seems strange to me that you can cast heals on a non aggroed boss and it does t pull him, but then once the fight is going it can aggro him.

    We did try with springs, twilight matriarch (pet) heal, and mutagen. I want to test more since we didn't get super clean results, but they generally seemed to work in the same style as dps and bubble. If your heal ticks before a boss is tagged, after the ~7sec, or during an aggro swap (e.g., dps has gained aggro after initial tap and pauses casting), you will get a face full of angry boss. What I couldn't tell is whether OVERhealing has any effect (i.e., heals that tick on a target already at 100% hit points) and as I type this I finally figured out how to test that, huzzah.
  • dreamfarer
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    Some other weird aggro artifacts I've seen that could be looked into:

    - For spawns, aggro seems to be randomly divided between the PC group to start with. I've shot mobs right in the face and had them run directly at one of my teammates who has done nothing at all to them. Shooting the mobs again will recapture their attention but there's some "initial aggro code" on multi-mob spawns that doesn't seem to be as simple as "whoever hit me first".

    - The tests above seem good about accounting for this, but a lot of players get confused by bosses turning on other party members out of the blue. It's extremely common for bosses to have special moves that completely ignore aggro and target someone other than the tank. No amount of taunting will prevent these, but I wonder if there is some method of predicting who gets targeted? One easy example of this is the 2nd spider boss in FG1.

    - Similarly there are some bosses who seem to be flat out immune to taunt - but maybe there's another method of getting and staying at the top of their aggro list? I'll have to see if I can remember one who just completely ignores the tank. Maybe the teleporter guy from Wayrest 1?


  • antimawkish
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    dreamfarer wrote: »
    Some other weird aggro artifacts I've seen that could be looked into:

    - For spawns, aggro seems to be randomly divided between the PC group to start with. I've shot mobs right in the face and had them run directly at one of my teammates who has done nothing at all to them. Shooting the mobs again will recapture their attention but there's some "initial aggro code" on multi-mob spawns that doesn't seem to be as simple as "whoever hit me first".

    - The tests above seem good about accounting for this, but a lot of players get confused by bosses turning on other party members out of the blue. It's extremely common for bosses to have special moves that completely ignore aggro and target someone other than the tank. No amount of taunting will prevent these, but I wonder if there is some method of predicting who gets targeted? One easy example of this is the 2nd spider boss in FG1.

    - Similarly there are some bosses who seem to be flat out immune to taunt - but maybe there's another method of getting and staying at the top of their aggro list? I'll have to see if I can remember one who just completely ignores the tank. Maybe the teleporter guy from Wayrest 1?


    Spawns: Concur, though I rarely observe this and suspect it may be due to gaps between when mobs become aware of us and when our hit reaches them vs somebody else has an effect (heal, buff, etc) goes off. I wasn't ready to start with large groups, though, since I wanted the control of single-boss situations, and I am relying on observations from hundreds of dungeon runs. Also, it definitely only seems to apply to an actual hit on the individual mob and not it's neighbor (so I tend to open with 2-3 aoes on wide-spread mobs before I get into my line-of-sight position to pile them).

    I also have no idea how mobs pick a target on a facepull. Let's say I walk into a pack of 10. Why do 2 peel off for that AFKer who isn't even in the same room? If no one does anything, do they split up evenly? Boy is it hard to do nothing with a pack of aoe mobs just begging to inflate your numbers.

    I'll definitely be looking into aoe pulls in the future.


    Special mechanics: That gorram spider in front of the cave on FG2 with its seemingly random aggro wipes drives me bonkers. It doesn't seem to be on a timer and-- I want to rant, oof. Ok, focusing. Regardless, I don't think it'd be easy to predict given how short the reset is on the aggro table/attention span and how many different effects are flying around unless you knew when the aggro reset was going to happen.

    For other bosses, there's just so much variation in mechanics. Direfrost Keep comes to mind and the infuriatingly untankable final boss. I honestly do not know how her attacks work. It doesn't seem to be round robin, with her just cycling through the party names, and I don't think (though I don't know, either) it's tied to activity. Now that we know it's not based on output, though, it's going to be a LOT easier to make observations on these special mechanics by selectively controlling activity.

    Edit: Another boss I'd love to figure out is the final boss in Arx. She definitely swaps target regardless of taunt and I know I can hold her attention MUCH more consistently on some of my tanks than others.
    Edited by antimawkish on January 25, 2018 10:03PM
  • dreamfarer
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    I think the FG1 Spider boss isn't an aggro wipe so much as a particular attack which is randomly chooses a target other than it's current one for.

    What I've seen is this behavior:
    - Spider is taunted on the tank, and taunt duration is fine
    - Spider leaps at another party member and tries to eat them (there is time on the "try to eat them animation")
    - Spider finishes trying to eat them and comes lumbering back to the tank, I think because it hasn't lost aggro, it's just ignoring for the duration of the "jump and eat" attack.

    The Arx boss though, it another story. That thing leaves and will not come back at all sometimes...hmm, which makes me wonder if it is a true aggro wipe or if there's something like an aggro-wipe on stepping into the electrified water. Or maybe the devs are just lazy and put in a AggroTarget.RNG(PartyMember) method to determine the behavior.
  • VaranisArano
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    Sllestrix is weird. Here's a post discussing her mechanic in detail: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/4382645/#Comment_4382645

    The gist seems to be that tehe game causes her to shed taunt by applying a phantom taunt to her, which the tank can then compound by re-taunting her causing her to get taunt immunity.
  • AcadianPaladin
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    Great info - thanks!
    PC NA (PvE)
  • essi2
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    Thanks for posting this.

    This also explains why it sometimes looks like Output is affecting aggro. Whoever is healing/damaging the most is also most likely hitting the mobs the most.


    And healing ticks counting as the mob being 'hit' is kinda f'ed up :P
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  • Marginis
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    Ymogn wrote: »
    At the end of the initial ~7 second aggro period, assuming the healer gets aggro next because nobody has hit the mob and rapid regeneration ticked most recently: Does the healer then have the mob for ~7 seconds, or if someone hits it does it switch? I guess the question could be better worded as, is the ~7 second aggro period a cycle that continues on as future ~7 second aggro periods, or is it only for the initial period, where afterwards the mob goes after whoever hit it most recently?

    We weren't able to nail down the exact time on the aggro reset after DPS pulled off me because the animation delays, but there did appear to be a delay before the boss swapped back to me. We took dots off the DPS bar and used only DD for a lot of the testing specifically to have more control over the timing of damage, though, and it looked like we got DPS active the second a boss swapped. At the same time, I would immediately star laying in with my spells and weapon once I saw aggro swap.

    So, it does appear there is a cyclic timer of some sort. I hypothesize it's something like 7sec->aggro check (i.e., who hits the boss first at this point->7sec->aggro check->repeat.

    tommalmm wrote: »
    Hmm... Interesting. But what about cases when no one stops attacking and the boss still switches aggro? I'll have to test it again, but it definitely happens. Is it rather "whoever had the most recent damage/heal tick prior to aggro switch, gets the aggro until next switch". Unless that's what you meant and it's just me who didn't understand. If not, then it contradicts with my testing. (it's hard to "stop damage" when there is 100% uptime on aoe like caltrops and nearly 100% uptime on others... and the boss still switches aggro).

    Yes! We did encounter this once or twice, but only in rotations where there was anything resembling a gap in my activity. So you're circling something like the same hypothesis above that I need to test more on.

    In response to the bolded part: that's what I'd be most interested in seeing tested. As a tank, assuming the healer is healing and DPSers are dpsing, could one go in, take first hit on everything with an aoe, and hold aggro so long as they spam that aoe?
    Edited by Marginis on January 30, 2018 2:07AM
    @Marginis on PC, Senpai Fluffy on Xbox, Founder of Magicka. Also known as Kha'jiri, The Night Mother, Ma'iq, Jane Shepard, Damia, Kintyra, Zoor Do Kest, You, and a few others.
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