[PvP] mDK changes in 3.3.2

DDuke

Quantum_V wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Kilandros wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Kilandros wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Kilandros wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Quantum_V wrote: »

Hey guys,

So just 2 quick disclaimers before I get to the point; if you're going to come to this thread to simply say 'mDKs need to stop QQing' or anything that revolves around that idea, simply don't bother and don't waste your time. You aren't helping anyone and just wasting your own time. With that said, if you've got constructive critism or ideas that diverge or converge from mine, I'd be thankful if you could present us with it. Secondly, yes, I have tested the changes in PTS. So with that out of the way.

There were 2 main changes addressing mDKs this PTS:

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Dragonknight

• Ardent Flame
  • Flame Lash (Lava Whip morph): The Power Lash attack from this morph now has a 3 second cooldown.

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Dragonknight

• Ardent Flame
  • Flame Lash (Lava Whip morph): Fixed an issue where the Power Lash attack from this morph could not be dodged.

As far as the former point goes:

From PTS testing, implementing this 3s cooldown didn't have a considerable effect on 1v1 scenarios, as the time it takes to normally proc powerlash is somewhere around that 3s mark. However, this presents mDKs with a new issue, which is proccing Flame Lash on openworld opponents. Switching targets mid fight is an important aspect of PvP and not being able to set target B offbalance when needed might prove to be a real obstacle to mDKs overall performance in Open World scenarios. With that said, I think an intuitive solution would be that the 3s cooldown to proc flame lash should be applied on specific targets instead of appling it directly to the casted skill.

As the latter point goes:

So this is where the real issue begins, at least in my opinion. Magicka DKs have one of the most mechanically, well-thought, interesting general playstyles. Where everything synchronized and revolved around the ability of the class to hold it's ground - and even with a lack of mobility - had the tools to be effective through CCs and overall control on the battlefield. Powerlash has been undodgeable for that past 2 years if I recal correctly, and it fit mDKs fluidity and playstyle like a tailored suit.

With that idea in mind, rooting instinctively provokes a rolldodge reaction, and due to how the timing on powerlash procced, it'd hit players that mindlessly rolldodges away from the mDKs grasp - requiring thought process behind fighting a DK and making the game more interestingly rich. Best part of it, is that this mechanic had counterplay and is commonly applied by patient players; which is normally blocking while rooted and roll dodging after successfully blocking the incoming powerlash. This sole mechanic enriched the game making your decisions reflect on the final outcome of the fight and made powerlash resonate with the general playstyle of the class.

Now, as far as PTS testing went: I've dueled a ton. Powerlash simply misses ALL THE TIME, worst part is that if powerlash misses, the skill is put on a 3s cooldown. As a consequence, the main form of DPS is rendered useless against a lot of player. Either way, I tried being optimisitc about that, thinking to myself 'well, I can just hold the powerlash just like mag blades hold to their assassins will, and let it go after the person is done with the dodge'. Oh, was I wrong... When my opponents were rolldodging they commonly rolldodged away from the range of the powerlash and combining that with dks low mobility, the powerlash was wasted. Either way, comparing assassins' will to powerlash is not a fair comparison: powerlash doesn't hit half as hard as an assassins will, powerlash is supposed to offer a sustained form of damage and healing and not a huge burst attack anyways so both skills are used diffrently...

All of this combined ruined the fluidity and the admiration I had for mDKs mechanics. You rooting people (basically telling them to rolldodge) just to have a proc that comes from that very same root dodged. The combination of the root and the undodgeable proc that came after that enriched mDKs playstyle, made it fit, made it fluid. Please understand I'm not here asking for mDKs buffs, I said it before and I'll say it again, mDKs are an exceptional class. We just aren't in a position where we can take nerfs like this. ZOS, please think about the undodgeable lash more thoroughly, there are better solutions for the offbalance change and I bet that skilled and proficient mDKs will open a whole new fan of options to refine this class in this (and other threads).

Thank you for taking your time to read this whoever made it this far. I'm interested in knowing what most of you think.

Kind regards,

Quantum

Couple of questions:

1. Were you perhaps dueling a medium armor dodge roll build? Information about the opponent would be nice, because most people can't afford to dodge roll all (if any) of your Power Lashes.
2. Did you try Empowering Chains when they dodge roll away from you? You say mDKs have "low mobility", but this couldn't be further from the truth. Using Empowering Chains would not only let you close that gap (and deal undodgeable damage) after/during their dodge roll (and get Major Expedition to offset any possible snares on you), but it would also empower the Power Lash.
3. Are you using just root, or stun+root (i.e. Fossilize)?


Also, you say people previously had a "counter" to undodgeable Power Lash, i.e. blocking while rooted.

Medium armor dodge roll builds however cannot afford that, as they not only block very little damage compared to S&B block/mitigation oriented builds, but also run out of stamina doing so.
This is why dodge roll builds are free AP and don't live more than 10-20 seconds against any decent mDK on Live currently.


I do hope they buff the other Whip morph for PvE purposes, but Flame Lash is perfectly fine now.

Can we cool it with the hyperbole? I challenge you to fight a talented medium armor Stamplar on your mDK, for example. It's anything but "free AP." I absolutely chew through mDKs with my bleed-based medium Stamplar in Cyrodiil.

Now if you want to go back to asking for buffs to Medium I would be all for that conversation. But acting like somehow the only issue with Medium armor are Magicka DKs? Please.

Sure, I'm on PTS right now. Feel free to bring your dodge roll builds

You can whisper @DDuke when you're in game.

Oh are we to the point of calling each other out to duel then? And here I was worried that this thread would get derailed by childishness.

Well, you were accusing me of hyperboles - I haven't seen any dodge roll build live more than 20 seconds against my mDK and that's the truth. Medium armor builds don't even live past the first Fossilize without Troll King, which is what lets them live closer to 20 seconds.

If you don't think calling medium armor builds "free AP" isn't hyperbole, then the issue is with how you define hyperbole. Let's keep it civil as Quantum asked and keep the hyperbole to a minimum.

As I said, I agree that medium armor needs help. In fact, I've always agreed with you that medium needs help. But the issue with Medium armor isn't Magicka DKs. And there are, as I said, medium bleed-based builds that can absolutely wreck mDKs who rely on block.

You don't think undodgeable Power Lash is part of the medium armor issue?

This change makes it easier for the dodge roll builds. I won't ever see that as a bad thing, especially when mag DKs are simultaneously buffed against pretty much every other build in the game.


Imagine if Power Lash remained undodgeable. You'd now be able to hit dodge roll builds with two undodgeable Power Lashes (instead of one, which usually kills them anyway) for every Fossilize you cast. It'd be even more broken.


Also, why hasn't anyone mentioned that Flame Lash heal is now twice as strong? Tooltip states it heals over 4 seconds (rather than two) - that's a massive buff.


Stop complaining fellow magicka DKs and look at the big picture.

From PTS testing, and I've been testing it for hours now. I haven't gotten A SINGLE double lash proc. Not sure if it's glitched or what, but as the first one is always missing, the second one that's supposed to come up never does.

I'm proccing them without a problem on target dummy atm.

Keep in mind that the Off Balance has 5s duration, you need to animation cancel everything perfectly & you can fit in 2 additional skills inbetween the first & 2nd Power Lashes.

Tarrocan

ok guys i tested my mDK too and i tell u THATS RLY TERRIBLE AND SAD . World Bosses for me, it takes 3 times longer, i also miss 4 or 5 Powerlash´s and have maybe around 10 in the whole fight (LOL) and for me, my sustain is on the ground and need to do alot ridiculous Heavy attacks. How helpless.

I love to play my mdk with lightning staff coz i rly love this gameplay more as ALL OTHER Classes. After patch i dont know maybe i start mDK with flamestaff? NOT RLY
The battles will take a long time and all these heavy attacks suck in my eyes.and damit i Still hate this morrowind patches and now this
ZOS when i start my mNB again when do u think nerf this class to the ground? so i can manage my time for it

thanks alot

ManDraKE

I can't argue with you about the mDK, you know the class a million times better than i do, but i can bring my perspective from playing almost exclusively stamina medium-armor builds (the most affected playstyle when it comes to doggeable/undoggeable stuff)

Quantum_V wrote: »

With that said, I think an intuitive solution would be that the 3s cooldown to proc flame lash should be applied on specific targets instead of appling it directly to the casted skill.

I don't know if that is possible, usually the game applies a buff/debuff on you or the target. If you put the debuff on the target, the cooldown will make the target immune to flame lash procs of all mDKs that are targeting him, that would be a disaster ofc, so they chose to put the debuff on you (creating the issue that you described). One case i can remember of a buff/debuff being on a target and only affecting you is the master's bow effect, but that is kinda of a "invisible" buff, you won't see it in buff trackers and that can be annoying.

About the undodgeable stuff. Your argument makes sense, but from the perspective of a medium armor player, all the dmg of a mDK is undoggeable (and that's why mDK are so hard to fight with a medium armor build, unless there is a big skill or build gap, the mDK will always win). I think the power lash should remain dodgeable, but the cooldown should only be applied if you hit the target, so if the target dodges your power lash you should be able to get another proc instantly as long as you keep the offbalance on him. If he keeps dodging and dodging, you will able to punish him very easy by draining his stamina, and that's open a more skill-based gameplay that just always punishing the medium armor build with the undodgeable flame lash.

Quantum_V

ManDraKE wrote: »

I can't argue with you about the mDK, you know the class a million times better than i do, but i can bring my perspective from playing almost exclusively stamina medium-armor builds (the most affected playstyle when it comes to doggeable/undoggeable stuff)

Quantum_V wrote: »

With that said, I think an intuitive solution would be that the 3s cooldown to proc flame lash should be applied on specific targets instead of appling it directly to the casted skill.

I don't know if that is possible, usually the game applies a buff/debuff on you or the target. If you put the debuff on the target, the cooldown will make the target immune to flame lash procs of all mDKs that are targeting him, that would be a disaster ofc, so they chose to put the debuff on you (creating the issue that you described). One case i can remember of a buff/debuff being on a target and only affecting you is the master's bow effect, but that is kinda of a "invisible" buff, you won't see it in buff trackers and that can be annoying.

About the undodgeable stuff. Your argument makes sense, but from the perspective of a medium armor player, everything on the mDK bar is undodgeable (and that's why mDK are so hard to fight with a medium armor build, unless there is a big skill or build gap, the mDK will always win). I think the power lash should remain dodgeable, but the cooldown should only be applied if you hit the target, so if the target dodges your power lash you should be able to get another proc instantly (if he keeps dodging and dodging, you will able to punish him very easy by draining his stamina, and that's open a more skill-based gameplay that just always punishing the medium armor build with the undodgeable flame lash).

This is an interesting solution. If powerlash is not consumed when you miss it, then atleast you'll get a chance to do something eventually.

I still hold strong when I think powerlash should be undodgeable as again, the rooting (aka telling people to roll dodge) to proc a skill that is dodgeable doesn't make logical sense to me.

Quantum_V

DDuke wrote: »

I'm proccing them without a problem on target dummy atm.

Kilandros

DDuke wrote: »

Vesper_BR wrote: »

Can someone post one screen of the power lash tooltip from this pts? So we can see what's going on about the healing... If it is 4s and the heals remains the same... We HAD A HUUUGE HIDDEN NERF!

Lord_Eomer

Vosital wrote: »

Why are dumb birds undodgeable, but whips aren't? It makes no sense. Whip should obviously be undodgeable.

Vosital wrote: »

Why are dumb birds undodgeable, but whips aren't? It makes no sense. Whip should obviously be undodgeable.

Being dodgeable does not make sense without power lash cooldown,

Most likely you are already snare / stun or root while fighting MDK!

MDK burst need to reduce and ZOS is on a right track!

Quantum_V

I'd like to add: this issue goes a lot deeper than fighting stamblades.

Powerlash will be virtually useless against the huge majority of Cyrodiil. The skill can't be rendered useless because it somewhat counters stamblades in medium armor. That simply makes no sense what so ever..

Ragnaroek93

Quantum_V wrote: »

Rickter wrote: »

Quantum_V wrote: »

it'd hit players that mindlessly rolldodges away from the mDKs grasp - requiring thought process behind fighting a DK and making the game more interestingly rich.

I have to disagree with this statement, as a medium armor wearer, taking 5-6.7k whip dmg while dk passive snared, and having talons and fossilize stacked on me, what options could i consider besides "mindlessly roll dodging away"? stand my ground and shield up with my 9k mag? heal through the pain? no. mdks are given a lot of tools to effectively lock down and against anyone not in heavy or spamming shields, you'll get shredded to pieces.

how would they have gotten around the power lash changes? lets think about this for a second: the problem was that power lash was not consuming unbalanced - this was for PvE. Obviously it proved OP for PvP - so if it consumed unbalanced it would wreck PvE. the cool down was the only other option.
as far as whip being dodgeable - i could go either way but i can say as a med armor build, it would be nice to not get 5.3k whips that i cant dodge. but the same can be said about cliff racer. . .
well the other option was to change its properties entirely. . . couple of things come to mind - get rid of its conditions dependecy and just make it the magicka morph and make the other whip morph the stamina version? heh

5.3-6.7k flame lashes is excessive any way you cut it. and no its not a vamp thing (the actual increase in dmg is nominal at best) or a CP allocation thing, its a flame lash thing
case in point: I reached out to a fellow stam dk that placed in the most recent Legend tournament on how he dealt with the magdks he fought and he confirmed he takes 5k whips and hes not a vamp. its a lot of dmg for anyone not spamming shields or in heavy. Granted, it came down to L2P for me, but at the same time not everyone is at a high skill level in this game (arguably one of its problems)
maybe give it diminishing returns in dmg?
that way youre guaranteed the big dmg first couple whips but spamming it hurts in the long run?
and have this apply to like, cliff racer lul

I hope i didnt come off too aggressive, I am not trying to be, just speaking from my perspective with my specific build.

Hey, Rickter. Thanks for your input. Don't worry, you didn't come out as aggressive at all. I completely understand mDK v stamblade in medium is a very tough match up.

That's the intersting part, if you t in talons for half a second and block the whip you'll have a better time. Some stamblades I've seen do that and they even the odds a lot more. But even if it didn't, from pts testing, there were duels where I landed
2 whips at most as roots provoke dodging which is counter inuitive, cause you want root to make your attacks hit. :P

But it's not a hard matchup for stamblades itself. It's an impossible matchup for basically a medium armor build (who uses a bow actually but I doubt that a sword and board build would do much better). Lets just face the facts:
- Burning Embers: Undodgeable
- Skoria: Undodgeable
- Leap: Undodgeable
- Power Lash: Undodgeable (until now)
- Fossilize: Undodgeable
- Gapcloser: Undodgeable

Options on how to play against mag Dk:
- I can't outheal the dots
- I can't dodge their damage
- I can't counterburst because they can pull off their whole combo while holding block
- I can't kite if they use a gapcloser (which they should do in my opinion)

Do you really think that this is how good game design and/or balance should look like or do you just think what the *** (I even see magicka Dks who haven't lost one single fight to a med armor stamblade for months and still demand a Cloak nerf because it surpresses their dots)? Just because you choose to not run a gapcloser and therefore get kited doesn't mean that no magicka Dk does the same. Please just stop bringing up this "no mobility" and "stand your ground" because it's 1. not true, mag Dk has one of the strongest gapclosers in the game and 2. "stand your ground" is no argument for hardcountering a roll based build.
What would you think if we make Dawnbreaker, Executes, Wrecking Blow and Assassins Will go through block?

Kilandros wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Quantum_V wrote: »

Hey guys,

So just 2 quick disclaimers before I get to the point; if you're going to come to this thread to simply say 'mDKs need to stop QQing' or anything that revolves around that idea, simply don't bother and don't waste your time. You aren't helping anyone and just wasting your own time. With that said, if you've got constructive critism or ideas that diverge or converge from mine, I'd be thankful if you could present us with it. Secondly, yes, I have tested the changes in PTS. So with that out of the way.

There were 2 main changes addressing mDKs this PTS:

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Dragonknight

• Ardent Flame
  • Flame Lash (Lava Whip morph): The Power Lash attack from this morph now has a 3 second cooldown.

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Dragonknight

• Ardent Flame
  • Flame Lash (Lava Whip morph): Fixed an issue where the Power Lash attack from this morph could not be dodged.

As far as the former point goes:

From PTS testing, implementing this 3s cooldown didn't have a considerable effect on 1v1 scenarios, as the time it takes to normally proc powerlash is somewhere around that 3s mark. However, this presents mDKs with a new issue, which is proccing Flame Lash on openworld opponents. Switching targets mid fight is an important aspect of PvP and not being able to set target B offbalance when needed might prove to be a real obstacle to mDKs overall performance in Open World scenarios. With that said, I think an intuitive solution would be that the 3s cooldown to proc flame lash should be applied on specific targets instead of appling it directly to the casted skill.

As the latter point goes:

So this is where the real issue begins, at least in my opinion. Magicka DKs have one of the most mechanically, well-thought, interesting general playstyles. Where everything synchronized and revolved around the ability of the class to hold it's ground - and even with a lack of mobility - had the tools to be effective through CCs and overall control on the battlefield. Powerlash has been undodgeable for that past 2 years if I recal correctly, and it fit mDKs fluidity and playstyle like a tailored suit.

With that idea in mind, rooting instinctively provokes a rolldodge reaction, and due to how the timing on powerlash procced, it'd hit players that mindlessly rolldodges away from the mDKs grasp - requiring thought process behind fighting a DK and making the game more interestingly rich. Best part of it, is that this mechanic had counterplay and is commonly applied by patient players; which is normally blocking while rooted and roll dodging after successfully blocking the incoming powerlash. This sole mechanic enriched the game making your decisions reflect on the final outcome of the fight and made powerlash resonate with the general playstyle of the class.

Now, as far as PTS testing went: I've dueled a ton. Powerlash simply misses ALL THE TIME, worst part is that if powerlash misses, the skill is put on a 3s cooldown. As a consequence, the main form of DPS is rendered useless against a lot of player. Either way, I tried being optimisitc about that, thinking to myself 'well, I can just hold the powerlash just like mag blades hold to their assassins will, and let it go after the person is done with the dodge'. Oh, was I wrong... When my opponents were rolldodging they commonly rolldodged away from the range of the powerlash and combining that with dks low mobility, the powerlash was wasted. Either way, comparing assassins' will to powerlash is not a fair comparison: powerlash doesn't hit half as hard as an assassins will, powerlash is supposed to offer a sustained form of damage and healing and not a huge burst attack anyways so both skills are used diffrently...

All of this combined ruined the fluidity and the admiration I had for mDKs mechanics. You rooting people (basically telling them to rolldodge) just to have a proc that comes from that very same root dodged. The combination of the root and the undodgeable proc that came after that enriched mDKs playstyle, made it fit, made it fluid. Please understand I'm not here asking for mDKs buffs, I said it before and I'll say it again, mDKs are an exceptional class. We just aren't in a position where we can take nerfs like this. ZOS, please think about the undodgeable lash more thoroughly, there are better solutions for the offbalance change and I bet that skilled and proficient mDKs will open a whole new fan of options to refine this class in this (and other threads).

Thank you for taking your time to read this whoever made it this far. I'm interested in knowing what most of you think.

Kind regards,

Quantum

Couple of questions:

1. Were you perhaps dueling a medium armor dodge roll build? Information about the opponent would be nice, because most people can't afford to dodge roll all (if any) of your Power Lashes.
2. Did you try Empowering Chains when they dodge roll away from you? You say mDKs have "low mobility", but this couldn't be further from the truth. Using Empowering Chains would not only let you close that gap (and deal undodgeable damage) after/during their dodge roll (and get Major Expedition to offset any possible snares on you), but it would also empower the Power Lash.
3. Are you using just root, or stun+root (i.e. Fossilize)?


Also, you say people previously had a "counter" to undodgeable Power Lash, i.e. blocking while rooted.

Medium armor dodge roll builds however cannot afford that, as they not only block very little damage compared to S&B block/mitigation oriented builds, but also run out of stamina doing so.
This is why dodge roll builds are free AP and don't live more than 10-20 seconds against any decent mDK on Live currently.


I do hope they buff the other Whip morph for PvE purposes, but Flame Lash is perfectly fine now.

Can we cool it with the hyperbole? I challenge you to fight a talented medium armor Stamplar on your mDK, for example. It's anything but "free AP." I absolutely chew through mDKs with my bleed-based medium Stamplar in Cyrodiil.

Now if you want to go back to asking for buffs to Medium I would be all for that conversation. But acting like somehow the only issue with Medium armor are Magicka DKs? Please.

How fair is it to compare medium armor in general to a duel build with bleeds (which are basically overperforming as well in my opinion)? That's like taking petsorc as benchmark for sorc balance. But even then I would give my coin to the mag Dk I think.

Seriously, start coming up with actual arguments instead of "I want to play my stand your ground playstyle and therefore I will win while you lose" and start seeing the other side of the medal. I don't know anybody who doesn't play mag Dk and rates it as fun to play against this class.

KhajiitHasSkooma

Why can't ZOS give a length of time for when you can use Power Lash? I think its better than a cool down for both PVE and PVP. Don't know the length of time, probably something like 6 seconds, where you can Power Lash away on an off-balanced enemy. You could fit it in PVE rotation. It would offer PVP counterplay so players would know to keep the *** away.

Also, there are a ton of undodgeable skills in this game. Wardens' spammable skill can't be dodged. So why in the world would a situational skill on a morph be dodgeable? You all learned to avoid birds by line of sighting. You can learn to deal with Power Lash.

Own

Quantum_V wrote: »

Hey guys,

So just 2 quick disclaimers before I get to the point; if you're going to come to this thread to simply say 'mDKs need to stop QQing' or anything that revolves around that idea, simply don't bother and don't waste your time. You aren't helping anyone and just wasting your own time. With that said, if you've got constructive critism or ideas that diverge or converge from mine, I'd be thankful if you could present us with it. Secondly, yes, I have tested the changes in PTS. So with that out of the way.

There were 2 main changes addressing mDKs this PTS:

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Dragonknight

• Ardent Flame
  • Flame Lash (Lava Whip morph): The Power Lash attack from this morph now has a 3 second cooldown.

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Dragonknight

• Ardent Flame
  • Flame Lash (Lava Whip morph): Fixed an issue where the Power Lash attack from this morph could not be dodged.

As far as the former point goes:

From PTS testing, implementing this 3s cooldown didn't have a considerable effect on 1v1 scenarios, as the time it takes to normally proc powerlash is somewhere around that 3s mark. However, this presents mDKs with a new issue, which is proccing Flame Lash on openworld opponents. Switching targets mid fight is an important aspect of PvP and not being able to set target B offbalance when needed might prove to be a real obstacle to mDKs overall performance in Open World scenarios. With that said, I think an intuitive solution would be that the 3s cooldown to proc flame lash should be applied on specific targets instead of appling it directly to the casted skill.

As the latter point goes:

So this is where the real issue begins, at least in my opinion. Magicka DKs have one of the most mechanically, well-thought, interesting general playstyles. Where everything synchronized and revolved around the ability of the class to hold it's ground - and even with a lack of mobility - had the tools to be effective through CCs and overall control on the battlefield. Powerlash has been undodgeable for that past 2 years if I recal correctly, and it fit mDKs fluidity and playstyle like a tailored suit.

With that idea in mind, rooting instinctively provokes a rolldodge reaction, and due to how the timing on powerlash procced, it'd hit players that mindlessly rolldodges away from the mDKs grasp - requiring thought process behind fighting a DK and making the game more interestingly rich. Best part of it, is that this mechanic had counterplay and is commonly applied by patient players; which is normally blocking while rooted and roll dodging after successfully blocking the incoming powerlash. This sole mechanic enriched the game making your decisions reflect on the final outcome of the fight and made powerlash resonate with the general playstyle of the class.

Now, as far as PTS testing went: I've dueled a ton. Powerlash simply misses ALL THE TIME, worst part is that if powerlash misses, the skill is put on a 3s cooldown. As a consequence, the main form of DPS is rendered useless against a lot of player. Either way, I tried being optimisitc about that, thinking to myself 'well, I can just hold the powerlash just like mag blades hold to their assassins will, and let it go after the person is done with the dodge'. Oh, was I wrong... When my opponents were rolldodging they commonly rolldodged away from the range of the powerlash and combining that with dks low mobility, the powerlash was wasted. Either way, comparing assassins' will to powerlash is not a fair comparison: powerlash doesn't hit half as hard as an assassins will, powerlash is supposed to offer a sustained form of damage and healing and not a huge burst attack anyways so both skills are used diffrently...

All of this combined ruined the fluidity and the admiration I had for mDKs mechanics. You rooting people (basically telling them to rolldodge) just to have a proc that comes from that very same root dodged. The combination of the root and the undodgeable proc that came after that enriched mDKs playstyle, made it fit, made it fluid. Please understand I'm not here asking for mDKs buffs, I said it before and I'll say it again, mDKs are an exceptional class. We just aren't in a position where we can take nerfs like this. ZOS, please think about the undodgeable lash more thoroughly, there are better solutions for the offbalance change and I bet that skilled and proficient mDKs will open a whole new fan of options to refine this class in this (and other threads).

Thank you for taking your time to read this whoever made it this far. I'm interested in knowing what most of you think.

Kind regards,

Quantum

I was going to ask you everything you posted, glad I saw this!

EDIT: I always thought power lash was supposed to be undodgable. I also thought it was in patch notes a long time ago. Oh well

Apoxsee

@Quantum_V , maybe the solution is to reduce the range somewhere between 5-7m and keep it undodgeable.. this would allow for a dodge to potential get you out of harms way but not all the time. This thought if for pvp and not sure how that decreased range would effect pve uses.

Quantum_V

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

Seriously, start coming up with actual arguments instead of "I want to play my stand your ground playstyle and therefore I will win while you lose" and start seeing the other side of the medal. I don't know anybody who doesn't play mag Dk and rates it as fun to play against this class.

Change that for:

I'd like to play mDK, which has a unique playstyle where their skills resonate with each other while still having counter play.

As I said, stamblades have a hard encounter against mDKs. But in all honesty, if you can't outheal or OUTPLAY (and this is the important term) any mDK by keeping your distance, bursting when necessary, using your own dots, your access to defile and one of the most powerful ults in the game I am terribly sorry... but that's an L2P issue (not saying its your case)

We can't nerf classes simply because people don't take their time to learn how to fight against it.

I'm sorry if I sounded rude or agressive, that's not my objective here. I just can't put it better...

Quantum_V

Apoxsee wrote: »

@Quantum_V , maybe the solution is to reduce the range somewhere between 5-7m and keep it undodgeable.. this would allow for a dodge to potential get you out of harms way but not all the time. This thought if for pvp and not sure how that decreased range would effect pve uses.

This is actually a very intersting solution. you can roll dodge and powerlash wont miss unless you actually rolldodged or moved far enough so that Powerlash doesn't have enough range.

DDuke

Quantum_V wrote: »

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

Seriously, start coming up with actual arguments instead of "I want to play my stand your ground playstyle and therefore I will win while you lose" and start seeing the other side of the medal. I don't know anybody who doesn't play mag Dk and rates it as fun to play against this class.

Change that for:

I'd like to play mDK, which has a unique playstyle where their skills resonate with each other while still having counter play.

As I said, stamblades have a hard encounter against mDKs. But in all honesty, if you can't outheal or OUTPLAY (and this is the important term) any mDK by keeping your distance, bursting when necessary, using your own dots, your access to defile and one of the most powerful ults in the game I am terribly sorry... but that's an L2P issue (not saying its your case)

We can't nerf classes simply because people don't take their time to learn how to fight against it.

I'm sorry if I sounded rude or agressive, that's not my objective here. I just can't put it better...

"L2P issue"

How are you going to outheal 15k tooltip power lashes, undodgeable embers, 20k tooltip leaps, FoB projectiles, Skoria procs?

How are you going to keep your distance when a mag DK has Empowering Chains slotted?

How are you ever going to burst them when they have just enough health & mitigation to survive your predictable burst with a calculated maximum of 19k dmg on proper CPs/mitigation?

What is your Defile going to do against Healing Ward that's stronger than your Rev Slice/Killer's Blade?

The only way to beat an actual good mDK is with S&B Clown King dueling build, and any stam build can do that. In fact, those builds will now be weaker against mDK thanks to the Power Lash changes, as they don't dodge - they block. That is a good thing.


If there's anyone with L2P issues it's you, complaining when mDKs are getting buffed against most builds in the game.

NyassaV

I can somewhat agree with this. But if powerlash is undodgable soul harvest should be too... plzzzzzz

Ragnaroek93

Quantum_V wrote: »

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

Seriously, start coming up with actual arguments instead of "I want to play my stand your ground playstyle and therefore I will win while you lose" and start seeing the other side of the medal. I don't know anybody who doesn't play mag Dk and rates it as fun to play against this class.

Change that for:

I'd like to play mDK, which has a unique playstyle where their skills resonate with each other while still having counter play.

As I said, stamblades have a hard encounter against mDKs. But in all honesty, if you can't outheal or OUTPLAY (and this is the important term) any mDK by keeping your distance, bursting when necessary, using your own dots, your access to defile and one of the most powerful ults in the game I am terribly sorry... but that's an L2P issue (not saying its your case)

We can't nerf classes simply because people don't take their time to learn how to fight against it.

I'm sorry if I sounded rude or agressive, that's not my objective here. I just can't put it better...

Refuses to play with a gapcloser and tells others to L2P. And here we go again. It's *** game design if you have a class which is rolls over other classes just because some people want to play their "stay your ground" (I prefer calling it "blockcast your opponent to death") playstyle. Try to play a medium armor build (for exmaple stamdk or stamsorc with a bow and you will realise how strong mag Dk actually is).

So we went from a "constructive thread" down to: If you can't handle mag Dks you need to l2p. Yeah sure. If you can't handle a petsorc you need to l2p as well. Kappa.

Quantum_V

sec, I messed up the formating in this post

DDuke

Quantum_V wrote: »

sec, I messed up the formating in this post

Don't bother, already saw what was in it.


I have actually put some thought to my mDK build, that is why it has precisely the amount of health, mitigation (mitigates 29.896% of direct dmg & 48% of crit dmg) to survive any burst, it has good sustain thanks to Mara resto bar & Elemental Drain and it has good damage because I've actually built for it (simultaneously buffing up my Healing Wards to outheal/shield executes).

I can easily get 15k tooltip Power Lashes and survive anything that comes at me.

I suggest you do some theorycrafting if you feel magicka DK is that weak, I've never ever come even close to losing to a medium armor dodge roll build (well, in a 1v1 fight) and I've never seen one live more than 20 seconds.

Maybe your build isn't capable of the same, but I know what mine does and I know how it ruins the gameplay experience for dodge roll builds out there.

So having it be slightly weaker against those builds (but stronger vs S&B/dmg shield builds) is good for the game.

Quantum_V

DDuke wrote: »

Quantum_V wrote: »

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

Seriously, start coming up with actual arguments instead of "I want to play my stand your ground playstyle and therefore I will win while you lose" and start seeing the other side of the medal. I don't know anybody who doesn't play mag Dk and rates it as fun to play against this class.

Change that for:

I'd like to play mDK, which has a unique playstyle where their skills resonate with each other while still having counter play.

As I said, stamblades have a hard encounter against mDKs. But in all honesty, if you can't outheal or OUTPLAY (and this is the important term) any mDK by keeping your distance, bursting when necessary, using your own dots, your access to defile and one of the most powerful ults in the game I am terribly sorry... but that's an L2P issue (not saying its your case)

We can't nerf classes simply because people don't take their time to learn how to fight against it.

I'm sorry if I sounded rude or agressive, that's not my objective here. I just can't put it better...

"L2P issue"

How are you going to outheal 15k tooltip power lashes, undodgeable embers, 20k tooltip leaps, FoB projectiles, Skoria procs?

How are you going to keep your distance when a mag DK has Empowering Chains slotted?

How are you ever going to burst them when they have just enough health & mitigation to survive your predictable burst with a calculated maximum of 19k dmg on proper CPs/mitigation?

What is your Defile going to do against Healing Ward that's stronger than your Rev Slice/Killer's Blade?

The only way to beat an actual good mDK is with S&B Clown King dueling build, and any stam build can do that. In fact, those builds will now be weaker against mDK thanks to the Power Lash changes, as they don't dodge - they block. That is a good thing.


If there's anyone with L2P issues it's you, complaining when mDKs are getting buffed against most builds in the game.

At this point you're just commiting fallacies in your argumentation, Duke. I'm beginning to question your overall familiarity with mDKs...

DDuke wrote: »

How are you going to outheal 15k tooltip power lashes, undodgeable embers, 20k tooltip leaps, FoB projectiles, Skoria procs?

If you've got 15k whip tooltip you're most likely 1 shot material. Any decent stamblade will be able to kill you with a fear/incap combo. Moreover, with that high damage build, you should be able to relaibly kill medium armor targets, you're a glass cannon.

DDuke wrote: »

How are you going to keep your distance when a mag DK has Empowering Chains slotted?

Chains is a super glitchy skill when it comes to z-axis casting. I tried it too. Apart from that, it's almost impossible to be able to slot chains and have an mDK build that capable of competing in something apart from pug stomping, as DKs need other very important utility skills to perform properly.

DDuke wrote: »

What is your Defile going to do against Healing Ward that's stronger than your Rev Slice/Killer's Blade?

If you're using healing ward I can deduce you're running a decently squishy DK if you don't have shields up. Wait for the cooldown, come in, fear, incap and it's most likely over.

DDuke wrote: »

If there's anyone with L2P issues it's you, complaining when mDKs are getting buffed against most builds in the game.

This is a delusional claim. Making your main form of DPS, which is only granted after telling your opponent to rolldodge a dodgeable skill us by no means a buff.

Have you been on PTS? If you have, you'll most likely agree with me that slotting whip on your bar is basically useless, as it's really, really, really rare to ever hit an opponent with it.

Quantum_V

DDuke wrote: »

Quantum_V wrote: »

sec, I messed up the formating in this post

Don't bother, already saw what was in it.


I have actually put some thought to my mDK build, that is why it has precisely the amount of health, mitigation (mitigates 29.896% of direct dmg & 48% of crit dmg) to survive any burst, it has good sustain thanks to Mara resto bar & Elemental Drain and it has good damage because I've actually built for it (simultaneously buffing up my Healing Wards to outheal/shield executes).

I can easily get 15k tooltip Power Lashes and survive anything that comes at me.

I suggest you do some theorycrafting if you feel magicka DK is that weak, I've never ever come even close to losing to a medium armor dodge roll build (well, in a 1v1 fight) and I've never seen one live more than 20 seconds.

Maybe your build isn't capable of the same, but I know what mine does and I know how it ruins the gameplay experience for dodge roll builds out there.

So having it be slightly weaker against those builds (but stronger vs S&B/dmg shield builds) is good for the game.

I never said mDK is weak, on the contrary. Please pay more attention.

What's your in game @ name, Duke?

Kilandros

Hollery wrote: »

I can somewhat agree with this. But if powerlash is undodgable soul harvest should be too... plzzzzzz

Not to encourage derailing this thread with NB stuff, but yes Soul Harvest should be undodgeable since it is currently well balanced on Live.

Quantum_V

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

Quantum_V wrote: »

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

Seriously, start coming up with actual arguments instead of "I want to play my stand your ground playstyle and therefore I will win while you lose" and start seeing the other side of the medal. I don't know anybody who doesn't play mag Dk and rates it as fun to play against this class.

Change that for:

I'd like to play mDK, which has a unique playstyle where their skills resonate with each other while still having counter play.

As I said, stamblades have a hard encounter against mDKs. But in all honesty, if you can't outheal or OUTPLAY (and this is the important term) any mDK by keeping your distance, bursting when necessary, using your own dots, your access to defile and one of the most powerful ults in the game I am terribly sorry... but that's an L2P issue (not saying its your case)

We can't nerf classes simply because people don't take their time to learn how to fight against it.

I'm sorry if I sounded rude or agressive, that's not my objective here. I just can't put it better...

Refuses to play with a gapcloser and tells others to L2P. And here we go again. It's *** game design if you have a class which is rolls over other classes just because some people want to play their "stay your ground" (I prefer calling it "blockcast your opponent to death") playstyle. Try to play a medium armor build (for exmaple stamdk or stamsorc with a bow and you will realise how strong mag Dk actually is).

So we went from a "constructive thread" down to: If you can't handle mag Dks you need to l2p. Yeah sure. If you can't handle a petsorc you need to l2p as well. Kappa.

Listen.

As I said before, 1v1 encounters are not balanced, were never balanced and will never be balanced. But claiming that a stamblade can't beat an mDK is delusional, and sadly, yes, it most likely boils down to a skill issue. Not know how to mechanically play against determined classes and it's mechanics is a skill issue by itself.

Just with petsorcs, petsorcs is a tough match for most classes, but trust me - if you know the mechanics of fighting a petsorc you'll be able to win some encounters.

Kilandros

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

Quantum_V wrote: »

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

Seriously, start coming up with actual arguments instead of "I want to play my stand your ground playstyle and therefore I will win while you lose" and start seeing the other side of the medal. I don't know anybody who doesn't play mag Dk and rates it as fun to play against this class.

Change that for:

I'd like to play mDK, which has a unique playstyle where their skills resonate with each other while still having counter play.

As I said, stamblades have a hard encounter against mDKs. But in all honesty, if you can't outheal or OUTPLAY (and this is the important term) any mDK by keeping your distance, bursting when necessary, using your own dots, your access to defile and one of the most powerful ults in the game I am terribly sorry... but that's an L2P issue (not saying its your case)

We can't nerf classes simply because people don't take their time to learn how to fight against it.

I'm sorry if I sounded rude or agressive, that's not my objective here. I just can't put it better...

Refuses to play with a gapcloser and tells others to L2P. And here we go again. It's *** game design if you have a class which is rolls over other classes just because some people want to play their "stay your ground" (I prefer calling it "blockcast your opponent to death") playstyle. Try to play a medium armor build (for exmaple stamdk or stamsorc with a bow and you will realise how strong mag Dk actually is).

So we went from a "constructive thread" down to: If you can't handle mag Dks you need to l2p. Yeah sure. If you can't handle a petsorc you need to l2p as well. Kappa.

It's also your fault for choosing to play a squishy medium stamblade armor build. You don't get to have the highest burst in the game AND also being able to stand toe-to-toe with a tanky built DK. Get real. If you want to run a build capable of bursting someone down from 30k to 0 health before that person even knows you're in their vicinity then you also have to live with the consequences of being a full glass canon Stamblade. But you don't get to have insane damage with the same survivability of a S&B Magicka DK.

There are plenty of people running heavy armor Stamblades with high but not extreme burst who are still tanky as hell. The compromise of running a glass canon build is you're squishy. Don't blame DK mechanics because your squishy build dies when it fails to properly execute its burst.

Quantum_V

Kilandros wrote: »

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

Quantum_V wrote: »

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

Seriously, start coming up with actual arguments instead of "I want to play my stand your ground playstyle and therefore I will win while you lose" and start seeing the other side of the medal. I don't know anybody who doesn't play mag Dk and rates it as fun to play against this class.

Change that for:

I'd like to play mDK, which has a unique playstyle where their skills resonate with each other while still having counter play.

As I said, stamblades have a hard encounter against mDKs. But in all honesty, if you can't outheal or OUTPLAY (and this is the important term) any mDK by keeping your distance, bursting when necessary, using your own dots, your access to defile and one of the most powerful ults in the game I am terribly sorry... but that's an L2P issue (not saying its your case)

We can't nerf classes simply because people don't take their time to learn how to fight against it.

I'm sorry if I sounded rude or agressive, that's not my objective here. I just can't put it better...

Refuses to play with a gapcloser and tells others to L2P. And here we go again. It's *** game design if you have a class which is rolls over other classes just because some people want to play their "stay your ground" (I prefer calling it "blockcast your opponent to death") playstyle. Try to play a medium armor build (for exmaple stamdk or stamsorc with a bow and you will realise how strong mag Dk actually is).

So we went from a "constructive thread" down to: If you can't handle mag Dks you need to l2p. Yeah sure. If you can't handle a petsorc you need to l2p as well. Kappa.

It's also your fault for choosing to play a squishy medium stamblade armor build. You don't get to have the highest burst in the game AND also being able to stand toe-to-toe with a tanky built DK. Get real. If you want to run a build capable of bursting someone down from 30k to 0 health before that person even knows you're in their vicinity then you also have to live with the consequences of being a full glass canon Stamblade. But you don't get to have insane damage with the same survivability of a S&B Magicka DK.

There are plenty of people running heavy armor Stamblades with high but not extreme burst who are still tanky as hell. The compromise of running a glass canon build is you're squishy. Don't blame DK mechanics because your squishy build dies when it fails to properly execute its burst.

Exactly.

SASQUATCH0

DDuke wrote: »

Quantum_V wrote: »

sec, I messed up the formating in this post

Don't bother, already saw what was in it.


I have actually put some thought to my mDK build, that is why it has precisely the amount of health, mitigation (mitigates 29.896% of direct dmg & 48% of crit dmg) to survive any burst, it has good sustain thanks to Mara resto bar & Elemental Drain and it has good damage because I've actually built for it (simultaneously buffing up my Healing Wards to outheal/shield executes).

I can easily get 15k tooltip Power Lashes and survive anything that comes at me.

I suggest you do some theorycrafting if you feel magicka DK is that weak, I've never ever come even close to losing to a medium armor dodge roll build (well, in a 1v1 fight) and I've never seen one live more than 20 seconds.

Maybe your build isn't capable of the same, but I know what mine does and I know how it ruins the gameplay experience for dodge roll builds out there.

So having it be slightly weaker against those builds (but stronger vs S&B/dmg shield builds) is good for the game.

I can vouch for your build! I’ve been having a blast with it. Refreshing not having to using double s&b. And empowering chains is hella fun to use

DDuke

Quantum_V wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

How are you going to outheal 15k tooltip power lashes, undodgeable embers, 20k tooltip leaps, FoB projectiles, Skoria procs?

If you've got 15k whip tooltip you're most likely 1 shot material. Any decent stamblade will be able to kill you with a fear/incap combo. Moreover, with that high damage build, you should be able to relaibly kill medium armor targets, you're a glass cannon.

You can't simultaneously be "1 shot material" and "be able to reliably kill medium armor targets". It's one or the other (you don't kill anything while dead).

I have my build here: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/387047/video-decimus-magicka-dragonknight-pvp

You tell me if I'm "getting one shot".

Quantum_V wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

How are you going to keep your distance when a mag DK has Empowering Chains slotted?

Chains is a super glitchy skill when it comes to z-axis casting. I tried it too. Apart from that, it's almost impossible to be able to slot chains and have an mDK build that capable of competing in something apart from pug stomping, as DKs need other very important utility skills to perform properly.

Never had a problem with Chains. If you don't slot them, you don't get to complain about medium armor builds. That skill is a must have for any serious magicka DK interested in 1v1 or 1vX.

Quantum_V wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

What is your Defile going to do against Healing Ward that's stronger than your Rev Slice/Killer's Blade?

If you're using healing ward I can deduce you're running a decently squishy DK if you don't have shields up. Wait for the cooldown, come in, fear, incap and it's most likely over.

That is the worst stamblade combo you could've come up with.

All you get in terms of damage is one Incap (capped at 8371 damage against me even for the highest dmg gankblade), what you should be looking at is using the Incap as CC & comboing it with Relentless (which is capped at 19 473 dmg even for the highest dmg gankblade).

I've calculated everything & built my character to withstand everything.

Quantum_V wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

If there's anyone with L2P issues it's you, complaining when mDKs are getting buffed against most builds in the game.

This is a delusional claim. Making your main form of DPS, which is only granted after telling your opponent to rolldodge a dodgeable skill us by no means a buff.

Have you been on PTS? If you have, you'll most likely agree with me that slotting whip on your bar is basically useless, as it's really, really, really rare to ever hit an opponent with it.

Yes, I have.

Currently dueling a heavy armor DW/2H stamblade & being very grateful for that extra Power Lash heal up time, it is working just as I thought it would.

My in game @ is DDuke as well.

Quantum_V

DDuke wrote: »

Quantum_V wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

How are you going to outheal 15k tooltip power lashes, undodgeable embers, 20k tooltip leaps, FoB projectiles, Skoria procs?

If you've got 15k whip tooltip you're most likely 1 shot material. Any decent stamblade will be able to kill you with a fear/incap combo. Moreover, with that high damage build, you should be able to relaibly kill medium armor targets, you're a glass cannon.

You can't simultaneously be "1 shot material" and "be able to reliably kill medium armor targets". It's one or the other (you don't kill anything while dead).

I have my build here: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/387047/video-decimus-magicka-dragonknight-pvp

You tell me if I'm "getting one shot".

Quantum_V wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

How are you going to keep your distance when a mag DK has Empowering Chains slotted?

Chains is a super glitchy skill when it comes to z-axis casting. I tried it too. Apart from that, it's almost impossible to be able to slot chains and have an mDK build that capable of competing in something apart from pug stomping, as DKs need other very important utility skills to perform properly.

Never had a problem with Chains. If you don't slot them, you don't get to complain about medium armor builds. That skill is a must have for any serious magicka DK interested in 1v1 or 1vX.

Quantum_V wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

What is your Defile going to do against Healing Ward that's stronger than your Rev Slice/Killer's Blade?

If you're using healing ward I can deduce you're running a decently squishy DK if you don't have shields up. Wait for the cooldown, come in, fear, incap and it's most likely over.

That is the worst stamblade combo you could've come up with.

All you get in terms of damage is one Incap (capped at 8371 damage against me even for the highest dmg gankblade), what you should be looking at is using the Incap as CC & comboing it with Relentless (which is capped at 19 473 dmg even for the highest dmg gankblade).

I've calculated everything & built my character to withstand everything.

Quantum_V wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

If there's anyone with L2P issues it's you, complaining when mDKs are getting buffed against most builds in the game.

This is a delusional claim. Making your main form of DPS, which is only granted after telling your opponent to rolldodge a dodgeable skill us by no means a buff.

Have you been on PTS? If you have, you'll most likely agree with me that slotting whip on your bar is basically useless, as it's really, really, really rare to ever hit an opponent with it.

Yes, I have.

Currently dueling a heavy armor DW/2H stamblade & being very grateful for that extra Power Lash heal up time, it is working just as I thought it would.

My in game @ is DDuke as well.

Duke, when I say this I swear I mean no offense what so ever, I'm just trying to be transparent and blunt here. Your build is only useful for pug stomping.

As far as the nb combo goes, I was just making it short, ofc throw in some surprise attacks and consider the DoTs ticking aswell.
Can you come online?

Kilandros

DDuke wrote: »

Quantum_V wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

How are you going to outheal 15k tooltip power lashes, undodgeable embers, 20k tooltip leaps, FoB projectiles, Skoria procs?

If you've got 15k whip tooltip you're most likely 1 shot material. Any decent stamblade will be able to kill you with a fear/incap combo. Moreover, with that high damage build, you should be able to relaibly kill medium armor targets, you're a glass cannon.

You can't simultaneously be "1 shot material" and "be able to reliably kill medium armor targets". It's one or the other (you don't kill anything while dead).

I have my build here: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/387047/video-decimus-magicka-dragonknight-pvp

You tell me if I'm "getting one shot".

Quantum_V wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

How are you going to keep your distance when a mag DK has Empowering Chains slotted?

Chains is a super glitchy skill when it comes to z-axis casting. I tried it too. Apart from that, it's almost impossible to be able to slot chains and have an mDK build that capable of competing in something apart from pug stomping, as DKs need other very important utility skills to perform properly.

Never had a problem with Chains. If you don't slot them, you don't get to complain about medium armor builds. That skill is a must have for any serious magicka DK interested in 1v1 or 1vX.

Quantum_V wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

What is your Defile going to do against Healing Ward that's stronger than your Rev Slice/Killer's Blade?

If you're using healing ward I can deduce you're running a decently squishy DK if you don't have shields up. Wait for the cooldown, come in, fear, incap and it's most likely over.

That is the worst stamblade combo you could've come up with.

All you get in terms of damage is one Incap (capped at 8371 damage against me even for the highest dmg gankblade), what you should be looking at is using the Incap as CC & comboing it with Relentless (which is capped at 19 473 dmg even for the highest dmg gankblade).

I've calculated everything & built my character to withstand everything.

Quantum_V wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

If there's anyone with L2P issues it's you, complaining when mDKs are getting buffed against most builds in the game.

This is a delusional claim. Making your main form of DPS, which is only granted after telling your opponent to rolldodge a dodgeable skill us by no means a buff.

Have you been on PTS? If you have, you'll most likely agree with me that slotting whip on your bar is basically useless, as it's really, really, really rare to ever hit an opponent with it.

Yes, I have.

Currently dueling a heavy armor DW/2H stamblade & being very grateful for that extra Power Lash heal up time, it is working just as I thought it would.

My in game @ is DDuke as well.

That's an interesting build. What makes you prefer Mara over a more traditional sustain set like, say, Amber Plasm or even Lich if you wanted a back-bar proc set?

DDuke

Quantum_V wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Quantum_V wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

How are you going to outheal 15k tooltip power lashes, undodgeable embers, 20k tooltip leaps, FoB projectiles, Skoria procs?

If you've got 15k whip tooltip you're most likely 1 shot material. Any decent stamblade will be able to kill you with a fear/incap combo. Moreover, with that high damage build, you should be able to relaibly kill medium armor targets, you're a glass cannon.

You can't simultaneously be "1 shot material" and "be able to reliably kill medium armor targets". It's one or the other (you don't kill anything while dead).

I have my build here: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/387047/video-decimus-magicka-dragonknight-pvp

You tell me if I'm "getting one shot".

Quantum_V wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

How are you going to keep your distance when a mag DK has Empowering Chains slotted?

Chains is a super glitchy skill when it comes to z-axis casting. I tried it too. Apart from that, it's almost impossible to be able to slot chains and have an mDK build that capable of competing in something apart from pug stomping, as DKs need other very important utility skills to perform properly.

Never had a problem with Chains. If you don't slot them, you don't get to complain about medium armor builds. That skill is a must have for any serious magicka DK interested in 1v1 or 1vX.

Quantum_V wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

What is your Defile going to do against Healing Ward that's stronger than your Rev Slice/Killer's Blade?

If you're using healing ward I can deduce you're running a decently squishy DK if you don't have shields up. Wait for the cooldown, come in, fear, incap and it's most likely over.

That is the worst stamblade combo you could've come up with.

All you get in terms of damage is one Incap (capped at 8371 damage against me even for the highest dmg gankblade), what you should be looking at is using the Incap as CC & comboing it with Relentless (which is capped at 19 473 dmg even for the highest dmg gankblade).

I've calculated everything & built my character to withstand everything.

Quantum_V wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

If there's anyone with L2P issues it's you, complaining when mDKs are getting buffed against most builds in the game.

This is a delusional claim. Making your main form of DPS, which is only granted after telling your opponent to rolldodge a dodgeable skill us by no means a buff.

Have you been on PTS? If you have, you'll most likely agree with me that slotting whip on your bar is basically useless, as it's really, really, really rare to ever hit an opponent with it.

Yes, I have.

Currently dueling a heavy armor DW/2H stamblade & being very grateful for that extra Power Lash heal up time, it is working just as I thought it would.

My in game @ is DDuke as well.

Duke, when I say this I swear I mean no offense what so ever, I'm just trying to be transparent and blunt here. Your build is only useful for pug stomping.

As far as the nb combo goes, I was just making it short, ofc throw in some surprise attacks and consider the DoTs ticking aswell.
Can you come online?

I am online, and you couldn't be more wrong about my build

I always start every build from 1v1 perspective. If I stand no chance at surviving a certain build or class in 1v1, I start over - pointless to play such a build when your 1vX can be ruined by just one wrong opponent amongst the pugs.

A dodge roll build cannot survive a mDK with gap closer slotted.