Outfitting should have no gold cost for subscribers

Baracuta

Recremen wrote: »

Baracuta wrote: »

Recremen wrote: »

Putting this here since the cash shop forum seems more for things that are actually in the game whereas this forum is for upcoming features.

Anyway, subscribers shouldn't be nickel and dimed to death by a per-use cost to use the outfitting stations. It fits the theme of some of our other benefits, such as not getting nickel and dimed to death by the dye stamps for costumes. It's aesthetic, it's convenient, it belongs in the ESO+ benefits.

Men-Do, nooooo...You were a beacon in the darkness, spreading the light of Jone and Jode :c
You were supposed to end the pressure to spend real money, not join it! To bring a free outfit system for everyone; not make it exclusive!
You were an idol, Men-Do. I loved you.

@Baracuta

I am still 100% behind not having a fee for everyone, don't get me wrong. Still, you have to come at this sort of problem from multiple angles and see what sticks. It's like that health concept of "harm reduction", even if you can't get them off the heroin completely you can reduce risk by getting them to take it less.

@Recremen
Oh.
I still love you

SGT_Wolfe101st

Silver_Strider wrote: »

Doesn't ESO+ have enough benefits as is?
I mean, seriously.
Unlimited crafting storage
Double Bank and housing space
Crowns every month
Dyable Outfits
Free access to non-chapter DLC

When does it stop being a bonus and start becoming an entitlement badge?

Did you say "Free", please explain how paying a fee equates to free. At the end of the day we get the craft bag and double inventory slots. The crowns and the access to DLC are on par with the cost. At this point those "Free" crowns and DLC's have cost me $360.00. I am happy to pay, I enjoy the game, but that is far from "Free".

Recremen

Silver_Strider wrote: »

Doesn't ESO+ have enough benefits as is?
I mean, seriously.
Unlimited crafting storage
Double Bank and housing space
Crowns every month
Dyable Outfits
Free access to non-chapter DLC

When does it stop being a bonus and start becoming an entitlement badge?

@Silver_Strider

It does not have enough benefits as I states in a previous comment, but that is a good question that needs to be asked. It was originally advertised as coming with cash-shop fiat currency every month, plus access to all 4 DLC a year. They skipped several DLC releases and now are permanently skipping one a year. Thus, ESO+ has actually been great devalued. They have since added some new systems, and that's swell, but they need to add new systems with equivalent value to a missing DLC and they need to do it for every year that they're on this new release schedule.

Is that eventually going to add up to a whole lot of exclusive benefits? You betcha, but that's what happens when you change your release schedule like that. Someone's going to walk away unhappy about something and I don't think they want that to be their paying customers.

Recremen

idk wrote: »

Gold costs aren't exactly nickle and dining us. Heck, there's hardly a good sink in the game. when I never has much gold it was because I was buying more than I really needed to from other players. Stop buying so much and watch your bank fill with gold.

@idk

There are tons of gold sinks in the game, most notably housing. Also I feel like you're fundamentally misunderstanding what gold is good for to most players. It's not there to be accumulated, it's there to be spent. You're telling me to stop spending money so I can start spending money on some new thing which shouldn't even cost money, as we've already invested in getting the motifs and this is basically just double-dipping. That's kiiiiiind of silly.

SGT_Wolfe101st

Recremen wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Gold costs aren't exactly nickle and dining us. Heck, there's hardly a good sink in the game. when I never has much gold it was because I was buying more than I really needed to from other players. Stop buying so much and watch your bank fill with gold.

@idk

There are tons of gold sinks in the game, most notably housing. Also I feel like you're fundamentally misunderstanding what gold is good for to most players. It's not there to be accumulated, it's there to be spent. You're telling me to stop spending money so I can start spending money on some new thing which shouldn't even cost money, as we've already invested in getting the motifs and this is basically just double-dipping. That's kiiiiiind of silly.

^^^^
Best comment of the year right here "...stop spending money so I can start spending money on some new thing..." This is always the line of reason, well if you want x just get the gold, its so easy to x gold in y time, i have z money... Well my desire is to buy furnishings and motif pages and whatever else I get gold for, making a new and absolutely useless sink is just BS and is specifically added to drive people to the Crown $tore to buy the "by-pass gold cost token".

Silver_Strider

SGT_Wolfe101st wrote: »

Silver_Strider wrote: »

Doesn't ESO+ have enough benefits as is?
I mean, seriously.
Unlimited crafting storage
Double Bank and housing space
Crowns every month
Dyable Outfits
Free access to non-chapter DLC

When does it stop being a bonus and start becoming an entitlement badge?

Did you say "Free", please explain how paying a fee equates to free. At the end of the day we get the craft bag and double inventory slots. The crowns and the access to DLC are on par with the cost. At this point those "Free" crowns and DLC's have cost me $360.00. I am happy to pay, I enjoy the game, but that is far from "Free".

So 1500 crown AND access to the DLC without using said crowns is on par with the ~2k crowns a non subscribe would have to buy to get the same DLC? What about the 6 FREE crown crates ZOS just gave out to ESO+ members not even a week ago?

Your definition of par is clearly different than mine.

SirMewser

The only reason why I don't sub is that I've already purchased DLCs starting from IC before they really improved ESO+...

I would gladly have those DLCs reimbursed for something else and then sub, it just seems like I am already on this path, so why stop? Can't go back.

Recremen

Silver_Strider wrote: »

SGT_Wolfe101st wrote: »

Silver_Strider wrote: »

Doesn't ESO+ have enough benefits as is?
I mean, seriously.
Unlimited crafting storage
Double Bank and housing space
Crowns every month
Dyable Outfits
Free access to non-chapter DLC

When does it stop being a bonus and start becoming an entitlement badge?

Did you say "Free", please explain how paying a fee equates to free. At the end of the day we get the craft bag and double inventory slots. The crowns and the access to DLC are on par with the cost. At this point those "Free" crowns and DLC's have cost me $360.00. I am happy to pay, I enjoy the game, but that is far from "Free".

So 1500 crown AND access to the DLC without using said crowns is on par with the ~2k crowns a non subscribe would have to buy to get the same DLC? What about the 6 FREE crown crates ZOS just gave out to ESO+ members not even a week ago?

Your definition of par is clearly different than mine.

Gambling boxes are not a service, they are a chance at getting a service. Twenty potions isn't worth a DLC.

Froil

Everyone should be able to make outfits for free. If they want to have some sort of payment thing, make it use one style mat while still requiring the knowledge of the motif and that specific piece.

Dyeing, but not changing the style, of any gear shouldn't cost gold either; just because I'm sick of fugly red weapons doesn't mean I should pay gold. I'm fine with the style of certain dropped sets, especially weapons, but not that awful red.

Ohtimbar

Meh, I'm happy either way. I'm at a point now where I have more gold than I know what to do with.

Silver_Strider

Recremen wrote: »

Silver_Strider wrote: »

SGT_Wolfe101st wrote: »

Silver_Strider wrote: »

Doesn't ESO+ have enough benefits as is?
I mean, seriously.
Unlimited crafting storage
Double Bank and housing space
Crowns every month
Dyable Outfits
Free access to non-chapter DLC

When does it stop being a bonus and start becoming an entitlement badge?

Did you say "Free", please explain how paying a fee equates to free. At the end of the day we get the craft bag and double inventory slots. The crowns and the access to DLC are on par with the cost. At this point those "Free" crowns and DLC's have cost me $360.00. I am happy to pay, I enjoy the game, but that is far from "Free".

So 1500 crown AND access to the DLC without using said crowns is on par with the ~2k crowns a non subscribe would have to buy to get the same DLC? What about the 6 FREE crown crates ZOS just gave out to ESO+ members not even a week ago?

Your definition of par is clearly different than mine.

Gambling boxes are not a service, they are a chance at getting a service. Twenty potions isn't worth a DLC.

Not arguing that. I'm arguing that there is a plethora of great bonuses to ESO+ as is that I feel constantly asking for more is entitlement.

Mettaricana

I can agree to this its not pay to win and its a a new reason to sub. I like it and that's rare because i dont like anything...

idk

Recremen wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Gold costs aren't exactly nickle and dining us. Heck, there's hardly a good sink in the game. when I never has much gold it was because I was buying more than I really needed to from other players. Stop buying so much and watch your bank fill with gold.

@idk

There are tons of gold sinks in the game, most notably housing. Also I feel like you're fundamentally misunderstanding what gold is good for to most players. It's not there to be accumulated, it's there to be spent. You're telling me to stop spending money so I can start spending money on some new thing which shouldn't even cost money, as we've already invested in getting the motifs and this is basically just double-dipping. That's kiiiiiind of silly.

Well, you found a new way to spend money.

Honestly, gold, well, in game currency, being the cost for setting such an appearance is how I have seen it in other games. It worked just fine.

At least on the PTS the cost is very small. First time with the first outfit the cost was free. After doing a second and third outfit, which had a small cost, 200 then I think it was 800 I went back to the first outfit and it was 800 gold.

Really small.

The question I have, since you are on PC, have you actually tested it out yourself to see the small cost or are you just complaining because there is cost at all?

WhiteCoatSyndrome

I would like to note as a non-subscriber, I have zero problem with free Outfit modification being an ESO+ perk.

idk wrote: »

The question I have, since you are on PC, have you actually tested it out yourself to see the small cost or are you just complaining because there is cost at all?

...

Please avail yourself of the many, many, many screenshots of different outfits @Recremen has created on PTS. And more here.

idk

WhiteCoatSyndrome wrote: »

I would like to note as a non-subscriber, I have zero problem with free Outfit modification being an ESO+ perk.

idk wrote: »

The question I have, since you are on PC, have you actually tested it out yourself to see the small cost or are you just complaining because there is cost at all?

...

Please avail yourself of the many, many, many screenshots of different outfits @Recremen has created on PTS. And more here.

Not really interested in your screen shots. I merely asked a simple question that was obviously not clear from your OP nor your responses to me.

I can only assume your SS you linked is showing the outfit system and the small gold costs associated with it.

WhiteCoatSyndrome

idk wrote: »

Not really interested in your screen shots. I merely asked a simple question that was obviously not clear from your OP nor your responses to me.

Recremen

idk wrote: »

Recremen wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Gold costs aren't exactly nickle and dining us. Heck, there's hardly a good sink in the game. when I never has much gold it was because I was buying more than I really needed to from other players. Stop buying so much and watch your bank fill with gold.

@idk

There are tons of gold sinks in the game, most notably housing. Also I feel like you're fundamentally misunderstanding what gold is good for to most players. It's not there to be accumulated, it's there to be spent. You're telling me to stop spending money so I can start spending money on some new thing which shouldn't even cost money, as we've already invested in getting the motifs and this is basically just double-dipping. That's kiiiiiind of silly.

Well, you found a new way to spend money.

Honestly, gold, well, in game currency, being the cost for setting such an appearance is how I have seen it in other games.

At least on the PTS the cost is very small. First time with the first outfit the cost was free. After doing a second and third outfit, which had a small cost, 200 then I think it was 800 I went back to the first outfit and it was 800 gold.

Really small.

The question I have, since you are on PC, have you actually tested it out yourself to see the small cost or are you just complaining because there is cost at all?

@idk

I tested it myself like a responsible person using the PTS, duh.

The cost is exorbitant. If you want to change your outfit regularly and really take advantage of all the style you've learned then you will easily run through your gold, even if you're an above-average player. Even something as simple as showing off a new motif can cost you tens of thousands. For instance, if you want to show off the Apostle motif to your friends who are thinking of getting it, you'd spend 75k gold on it, not including if you tried to dye it. That's 10k each for a full view of light, medium, and heavy armor, plus 3k for each kind of one-handed weapon and shield, and 6k for each two-handed weapon.

Thus, if you're looking to actually use the system to its fullest potential, changing your outfit frequently to all kinds of style combos, then you're going to rack up a hefty bill really damn quickly. Not that you haven't been racking up huge costs to begin with going out and collecting or buying all those motifs, of course. Really the system is remarkably held back by this foolish per-use expense. We've already put work into getting the motifs, is the extra per-use gold cost really going to make us feel like we earned it more? Or is it just a player-hostile inconvenience fee that holds the system's true potential back?

Recremen

WhiteCoatSyndrome wrote: »

I would like to note as a non-subscriber, I have zero problem with free Outfit modification being an ESO+ perk.

idk wrote: »

The question I have, since you are on PC, have you actually tested it out yourself to see the small cost or are you just complaining because there is cost at all?

...

Please avail yourself of the many, many, many screenshots of different outfits @Recremen has created on PTS. And more here.

@WhiteCoatSyndrome

I super appreciate the backup on that, thank you. I think actually searching through those threads for my posts (even though one of them is literally my own original post with all the images at the top) is too much work for our friend idk.

@idk
What our friend of the illustrious white garments was trying to point out is that yes, I've done plenty of testing on this and been extremely active with the feedback on the system. I've also been a diehard advocate for getting a system like this. Here is one of my more fleshed-out posts on the matter. As you can see, it touches on most of the features that ended up making it into the system, including material-tier access, weapon and shield inclusion, armor weight agnosticism, etc. I would even later go on to suggest in other posts and comments that it should be collections-based instead of the implementation shown in that post. Now I'm not saying I'm personally responsible for the inclusion of those features, but the fact that I nailed every single one except weapon dyeing should tell you that I at least have my finger on the pulse of the community.

Yet here we are, missing one of the most important aspects of such a dauntingly-well-engineered system : having all the costs be up front instead of racked up on a per-use basis. If you want me to dig up some of those comments I can easily, but you'd have to actually search for them on the page I link since the forum doesn't support direct comment linking, as far as I'm aware.

Edit : OH WAIT I actually can do direct comment linking. Here are two comments from 2017 where I talk about up-front cost being preferable, plus a mention of collections integration.

Anyway, here's some of the outfits I've made via PTS.











Hope that sheds some light on my dedication level!

idk

Recremen wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Recremen wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Gold costs aren't exactly nickle and dining us. Heck, there's hardly a good sink in the game. when I never has much gold it was because I was buying more than I really needed to from other players. Stop buying so much and watch your bank fill with gold.

@idk

There are tons of gold sinks in the game, most notably housing. Also I feel like you're fundamentally misunderstanding what gold is good for to most players. It's not there to be accumulated, it's there to be spent. You're telling me to stop spending money so I can start spending money on some new thing which shouldn't even cost money, as we've already invested in getting the motifs and this is basically just double-dipping. That's kiiiiiind of silly.

Well, you found a new way to spend money.

Honestly, gold, well, in game currency, being the cost for setting such an appearance is how I have seen it in other games.

At least on the PTS the cost is very small. First time with the first outfit the cost was free. After doing a second and third outfit, which had a small cost, 200 then I think it was 800 I went back to the first outfit and it was 800 gold.

Really small.

The question I have, since you are on PC, have you actually tested it out yourself to see the small cost or are you just complaining because there is cost at all?

@idk

I tested it myself like a responsible person using the PTS, duh.

The cost is exorbitant. If you want to change your outfit regularly and really take advantage of all the style you've learned then you will easily run through your gold, even if you're an above-average player. Even something as simple as showing off a new motif can cost you tens of thousands. For instance, if you want to show off the Apostle motif to your friends who are thinking of getting it, you'd spend 75k gold on it, not including if you tried to dye it. That's 10k each for a full view of light, medium, and heavy armor, plus 3k for each kind of one-handed weapon and shield, and 6k for each two-handed weapon.

Thus, if you're looking to actually use the system to its fullest potential, changing your outfit frequently to all kinds of style combos, then you're going to rack up a hefty bill really damn quickly. Not that you haven't been racking up huge costs to begin with going out and collecting or buying all those motifs, of course. Really the system is remarkably held back by this foolish per-use expense. We've already put work into getting the motifs, is the extra per-use gold cost really going to make us feel like we earned it more? Or is it just a player-hostile inconvenience fee that holds the system's true potential back?

It appears you misunderstand the design of the system.

There is only an initial cost to setup an outfit. Of course additional outfit slots need to be purchased. Once an outfit is setup it can be switched to as many times as one desires without incurring additional costs.

It is clearly, buy the deign of the system, not intended for swapping out what is in one outfit slot constantly, certainly not multiple times a day. Just to be clear, multiple outfits would be setup on multiple outfit slots to utilize the system as intended if someone wants various appearances.

So, yes, the system is remarkable, but one has to understand the basic design of the system to be able to utilize it appropriately. Knowing is half the battle.

opaj

Recremen wrote: »

The cost is exorbitant. If you want to change your outfit regularly and really take advantage of all the style you've learned then you will easily run through your gold, even if you're an above-average player. Even something as simple as showing off a new motif can cost you tens of thousands. For instance, if you want to show off the Apostle motif to your friends who are thinking of getting it, you'd spend 75k gold on it, not including if you tried to dye it. That's 10k each for a full view of light, medium, and heavy armor, plus 3k for each kind of one-handed weapon and shield, and 6k for each two-handed weapon.

Not trying to rain on your parade--I don't especially mind the fee, though of course I wouldn't be against seeing it removed--but why couldn't your friend in this hypothetical situation try out the motifs for themselves using the new preview function in the Collections UI?

I mean, I still see you having to spend hundreds of thousands on this system in order to create your many fabulous outfits, but this particular example doesn't strike me as persuasive.

Recremen

idk wrote: »

Recremen wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Recremen wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Gold costs aren't exactly nickle and dining us. Heck, there's hardly a good sink in the game. when I never has much gold it was because I was buying more than I really needed to from other players. Stop buying so much and watch your bank fill with gold.

@idk

There are tons of gold sinks in the game, most notably housing. Also I feel like you're fundamentally misunderstanding what gold is good for to most players. It's not there to be accumulated, it's there to be spent. You're telling me to stop spending money so I can start spending money on some new thing which shouldn't even cost money, as we've already invested in getting the motifs and this is basically just double-dipping. That's kiiiiiind of silly.

Well, you found a new way to spend money.

Honestly, gold, well, in game currency, being the cost for setting such an appearance is how I have seen it in other games.

At least on the PTS the cost is very small. First time with the first outfit the cost was free. After doing a second and third outfit, which had a small cost, 200 then I think it was 800 I went back to the first outfit and it was 800 gold.

Really small.

The question I have, since you are on PC, have you actually tested it out yourself to see the small cost or are you just complaining because there is cost at all?

@idk

I tested it myself like a responsible person using the PTS, duh.

The cost is exorbitant. If you want to change your outfit regularly and really take advantage of all the style you've learned then you will easily run through your gold, even if you're an above-average player. Even something as simple as showing off a new motif can cost you tens of thousands. For instance, if you want to show off the Apostle motif to your friends who are thinking of getting it, you'd spend 75k gold on it, not including if you tried to dye it. That's 10k each for a full view of light, medium, and heavy armor, plus 3k for each kind of one-handed weapon and shield, and 6k for each two-handed weapon.

Thus, if you're looking to actually use the system to its fullest potential, changing your outfit frequently to all kinds of style combos, then you're going to rack up a hefty bill really damn quickly. Not that you haven't been racking up huge costs to begin with going out and collecting or buying all those motifs, of course. Really the system is remarkably held back by this foolish per-use expense. We've already put work into getting the motifs, is the extra per-use gold cost really going to make us feel like we earned it more? Or is it just a player-hostile inconvenience fee that holds the system's true potential back?

It appears you misunderstand the design of the system.

There is only an initial cost to setup an outfit. Of course additional outfit slots need to be purchased. Once an outfit is setup it can be switched to as many times as one desires without incurring additional costs.

It is clearly, buy the deign of the system, not intended for swapping out what is in one outfit slot constantly, certainly not multiple times a day. Just to be clear, multiple outfits would be setup on multiple outfit slots to utilize the system as intended if someone wants various appearances.

So, yes, the system is remarkable, but one has to understand the basic design of the system to be able to utilize it appropriately. Knowing is half the battle.

@idk

It appears you misunderstand the potential use value of the system. This is the PTS forums, we're supposed to give feedback on upcoming systems and it's not limited to features, but to accessibility as well. I think it's monumentally short-sighted for you to claim that it's not intended for us to change outfits on a regular basis. If that were the case, they wouldn't be trying to monetize the BS tokens because nobody would need to use them. Literally the only thing holding the system back is the per-use cost, and it is obviously an artificial barrier.

Even if the fees are dropped, the extra outfit slots have a huge use value in that they let you save your favorites and change into them out in the field, without having to bother finding an outfit station and all the pieces that put the look together.

To put it another way, think of all the other cosmetic systems in game. We can freely mix and match skins, hairstyles, personalities, adornments, mounts, and a host of other things. We paid an up-front cost and then are allowed to shuffle things around without incurring any kind of microtransaction penalty. Why should we be complacent with this system operating under an entirely different principle?

Recremen

opaj wrote: »

Recremen wrote: »

The cost is exorbitant. If you want to change your outfit regularly and really take advantage of all the style you've learned then you will easily run through your gold, even if you're an above-average player. Even something as simple as showing off a new motif can cost you tens of thousands. For instance, if you want to show off the Apostle motif to your friends who are thinking of getting it, you'd spend 75k gold on it, not including if you tried to dye it. That's 10k each for a full view of light, medium, and heavy armor, plus 3k for each kind of one-handed weapon and shield, and 6k for each two-handed weapon.

Not trying to rain on your parade--I don't especially mind the fee, though of course I wouldn't be against seeing it removed--but why couldn't your friend in this hypothetical situation try out the motifs for themselves using the new preview function in the Collections UI?

I mean, I still see you having to spend hundreds of thousands on this system in order to create your many fabulous outfits, but this particular example doesn't strike me as persuasive.

That's a good, but not unexpected question. Seeing an outfit on a live character instead of the preview window is an entirely different experience. You can run around, swing your weapon, emote, show different lightings, show off on mounts, and a host of other things. It's the same reason my friends and I sometimes gather around the dye station after PvP raid is over. We show off our costumes, try new dyes, and otherwise have a darn good time playing magickal cat barbie. We can preview costumes in the store just fine, but the live experience adds a lot more to it than some solo wardrobe pondering.

idk

Recremen wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Recremen wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Recremen wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Gold costs aren't exactly nickle and dining us. Heck, there's hardly a good sink in the game. when I never has much gold it was because I was buying more than I really needed to from other players. Stop buying so much and watch your bank fill with gold.

@idk

There are tons of gold sinks in the game, most notably housing. Also I feel like you're fundamentally misunderstanding what gold is good for to most players. It's not there to be accumulated, it's there to be spent. You're telling me to stop spending money so I can start spending money on some new thing which shouldn't even cost money, as we've already invested in getting the motifs and this is basically just double-dipping. That's kiiiiiind of silly.

Well, you found a new way to spend money.

Honestly, gold, well, in game currency, being the cost for setting such an appearance is how I have seen it in other games.

At least on the PTS the cost is very small. First time with the first outfit the cost was free. After doing a second and third outfit, which had a small cost, 200 then I think it was 800 I went back to the first outfit and it was 800 gold.

Really small.

The question I have, since you are on PC, have you actually tested it out yourself to see the small cost or are you just complaining because there is cost at all?

@idk

I tested it myself like a responsible person using the PTS, duh.

The cost is exorbitant. If you want to change your outfit regularly and really take advantage of all the style you've learned then you will easily run through your gold, even if you're an above-average player. Even something as simple as showing off a new motif can cost you tens of thousands. For instance, if you want to show off the Apostle motif to your friends who are thinking of getting it, you'd spend 75k gold on it, not including if you tried to dye it. That's 10k each for a full view of light, medium, and heavy armor, plus 3k for each kind of one-handed weapon and shield, and 6k for each two-handed weapon.

Thus, if you're looking to actually use the system to its fullest potential, changing your outfit frequently to all kinds of style combos, then you're going to rack up a hefty bill really damn quickly. Not that you haven't been racking up huge costs to begin with going out and collecting or buying all those motifs, of course. Really the system is remarkably held back by this foolish per-use expense. We've already put work into getting the motifs, is the extra per-use gold cost really going to make us feel like we earned it more? Or is it just a player-hostile inconvenience fee that holds the system's true potential back?

It appears you misunderstand the design of the system.

There is only an initial cost to setup an outfit. Of course additional outfit slots need to be purchased. Once an outfit is setup it can be switched to as many times as one desires without incurring additional costs.

It is clearly, buy the deign of the system, not intended for swapping out what is in one outfit slot constantly, certainly not multiple times a day. Just to be clear, multiple outfits would be setup on multiple outfit slots to utilize the system as intended if someone wants various appearances.

So, yes, the system is remarkable, but one has to understand the basic design of the system to be able to utilize it appropriately. Knowing is half the battle.

@idk

It appears you misunderstand the potential use value of the system. This is the PTS forums, we're supposed to give feedback on upcoming systems and it's not limited to features, but to accessibility as well. I think it's monumentally short-sighted for you to claim that it's not intended for us to change outfits on a regular basis. If that were the case, they wouldn't be trying to monetize the BS tokens because nobody would need to use them. Literally the only thing holding the system back is the per-use cost, and it is obviously an artificial barrier.

Even if the fees are dropped, the extra outfit slots have a huge use value in that they let you save your favorites and change into them out in the field, without having to bother finding an outfit station and all the pieces that put the look together.

To put it another way, think of all the other cosmetic systems in game. We can freely mix and match skins, hairstyles, personalities, adornments, mounts, and a host of other things. We paid an up-front cost and then are allowed to shuffle things around without incurring any kind of microtransaction penalty. Why should we be complacent with this system operating under an entirely different principle?

I it clear I do not misunderstand the value of the system.

I have pointed out specifically that what the design and intent of the design is for. Heck, I have not said you should not provide feedback but you are most certainly going the wrong direction since the costs for how this is intended to be used is extremely small.

Your feedback would be better met if it approached feedback on the design itself rather than the costs since the cost aspect is so negligible and as such the comment falls flat. I am stating it this way since it seems from your last post I was not clear enough before.

It is your choice but based on the message provided in the OP it seems more like someone is complaining they have to spend 800 gold. A pittance more most anyone.

Personally though, I like the system as it is. I have used a system pretty much like this and it worked well for me, though it was more costly.

Anyhow, have a good day. Nothing more I need to say here.

Dreth

It costs money to change clothes? Wow.

I wish Zeni would take the work they have been doing for the past few months and just trash it bc this patch is complete ***.

luen79rwb17_ESO

ZOS needs to monetize this system through the Crown Store. The sole purpose of gold costs is to make you buy aditional outfit slots.

Your proposed ESO+ free cost would make Crowns potentionally less useful than they already are because people would just change clothes whenever they want and won't be buying as many slots as they would with the gold costs.

Recremen

idk wrote: »

Recremen wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Recremen wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Recremen wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Gold costs aren't exactly nickle and dining us. Heck, there's hardly a good sink in the game. when I never has much gold it was because I was buying more than I really needed to from other players. Stop buying so much and watch your bank fill with gold.

@idk

There are tons of gold sinks in the game, most notably housing. Also I feel like you're fundamentally misunderstanding what gold is good for to most players. It's not there to be accumulated, it's there to be spent. You're telling me to stop spending money so I can start spending money on some new thing which shouldn't even cost money, as we've already invested in getting the motifs and this is basically just double-dipping. That's kiiiiiind of silly.

Well, you found a new way to spend money.

Honestly, gold, well, in game currency, being the cost for setting such an appearance is how I have seen it in other games.

At least on the PTS the cost is very small. First time with the first outfit the cost was free. After doing a second and third outfit, which had a small cost, 200 then I think it was 800 I went back to the first outfit and it was 800 gold.

Really small.

The question I have, since you are on PC, have you actually tested it out yourself to see the small cost or are you just complaining because there is cost at all?

@idk

I tested it myself like a responsible person using the PTS, duh.

The cost is exorbitant. If you want to change your outfit regularly and really take advantage of all the style you've learned then you will easily run through your gold, even if you're an above-average player. Even something as simple as showing off a new motif can cost you tens of thousands. For instance, if you want to show off the Apostle motif to your friends who are thinking of getting it, you'd spend 75k gold on it, not including if you tried to dye it. That's 10k each for a full view of light, medium, and heavy armor, plus 3k for each kind of one-handed weapon and shield, and 6k for each two-handed weapon.

Thus, if you're looking to actually use the system to its fullest potential, changing your outfit frequently to all kinds of style combos, then you're going to rack up a hefty bill really damn quickly. Not that you haven't been racking up huge costs to begin with going out and collecting or buying all those motifs, of course. Really the system is remarkably held back by this foolish per-use expense. We've already put work into getting the motifs, is the extra per-use gold cost really going to make us feel like we earned it more? Or is it just a player-hostile inconvenience fee that holds the system's true potential back?

It appears you misunderstand the design of the system.

There is only an initial cost to setup an outfit. Of course additional outfit slots need to be purchased. Once an outfit is setup it can be switched to as many times as one desires without incurring additional costs.

It is clearly, buy the deign of the system, not intended for swapping out what is in one outfit slot constantly, certainly not multiple times a day. Just to be clear, multiple outfits would be setup on multiple outfit slots to utilize the system as intended if someone wants various appearances.

So, yes, the system is remarkable, but one has to understand the basic design of the system to be able to utilize it appropriately. Knowing is half the battle.

@idk

It appears you misunderstand the potential use value of the system. This is the PTS forums, we're supposed to give feedback on upcoming systems and it's not limited to features, but to accessibility as well. I think it's monumentally short-sighted for you to claim that it's not intended for us to change outfits on a regular basis. If that were the case, they wouldn't be trying to monetize the BS tokens because nobody would need to use them. Literally the only thing holding the system back is the per-use cost, and it is obviously an artificial barrier.

Even if the fees are dropped, the extra outfit slots have a huge use value in that they let you save your favorites and change into them out in the field, without having to bother finding an outfit station and all the pieces that put the look together.

To put it another way, think of all the other cosmetic systems in game. We can freely mix and match skins, hairstyles, personalities, adornments, mounts, and a host of other things. We paid an up-front cost and then are allowed to shuffle things around without incurring any kind of microtransaction penalty. Why should we be complacent with this system operating under an entirely different principle?

I it clear I do not misunderstand the value of the system.

I have pointed out specifically that what the design and intent of the design is for. Heck, I have not said you should not provide feedback but you are most certainly going the wrong direction since the costs for how this is intended to be used is extremely small.

Your feedback would be better met if it approached feedback on the design itself rather than the costs since the cost aspect is so negligible and as such the comment falls flat. I am stating it this way since it seems from your last post I was not clear enough before.

It is your choice but based on the message provided in the OP it seems more like someone is complaining they have to spend 800 gold. A pittance more most anyone.

Personally though, I like the system as it is. I have used a system pretty much like this and it worked well for me, though it was more costly.

Anyhow, have a good day. Nothing more I need to say here.

@idk

No, you really do misunderstand the system's potential. It could completely revolutionize aesthetics in the game, it's just tremendously held back by the gold cost associated with changing outfits. Your lack of imagination or stubbornness in insisting that it's somehow not meant for that notwithstanding.

And again, we're not talking about 800 gold, we're talking about tens of thousands of gold. Per day. Did you miss that whole thing where I broke down how much it would cost to don the Apostle style? Or are you just ignoring it on purpose because your arguments can't compete?

Anyway thanks for spending the time to bump the thread for me, you've been a real peach.

idk

Lol. Seriously, I do understand the systems potential. I also understand since you want to use it differently than intended you want to change it. However, it's clear you are not reading my last message or you don't really understand the intent of the system as designed since you keep barking up the same tree, which happens to be the weinf tree.

No worries though. Keep merely complaining about spending 800 gold instead of suggesting an actual design change ans expext zero chance for a change anytime soon.

I respect your oppinion and really am not concerned about agreement. The current design is basically what I suggested long ago. Perfect in my oppinion sans a good preview system.

Bevik

Funny thing is only some people are really have problem with this system. Other players do understand that the system is what it is.

How much does customizing my Outfits cost?

Each unique slot has a specific gold cost to customize based on two key factors:

• The size of the slot itself (for example, a new style for your chest slot costs more than hands)
• The rarity of the style you're applying to the slot (for example, it might cost more to apply the Telvanni style than the basic Dark Elf style)
• Whether or not you're also dying the Outfit slot
• Gold costs per slot can then range between hundreds or thousands of gold.

When browsing different styles for different slots, you can see the Application Cost in the item tooltip, and once applied, you can see the total cost to Apply Changes at the bottom of the Outfit Station window.

As an alternative to gold, you can buy Outfit Change Tokens from the Crown Store. A single Outfit Change Token covers the cost of an entire Outfit change (not a single slot), regardless of the slots you're customizing or the rarity of the styles you're applying. If you're using an Outfit Change Token, be sure to make the most out of it!

You can find Outfit Change Tokens under the Outfit Tokens category within the Crown Store Crafting section.

This is the system. Obviously if you want to go extreme and change your outfit hundreds of times a day you should work for it. Either in game to collect currency or in real life so you will be able to buy Tokens. What is hard to understand about this?
Everyone will be happy of course for free or for reduced cost but well, it's not. It's not end of the world and it's not extremely expensive. We should just accept it. It is not creating any unbalance. Is is just cosmetic. You can see people crying about Crown Crates while they are not forced to buy them plus they are only cosmetics aswell. Unfortunately I've been playing a game which went from free to play to pay to win. All the disadvantage you can have here is how you look. If you can't control yourself that's a different story. Atleast your income will.

Anyway I'm finished here also. Enjoy your rage.

Recremen

@idk @Bevik

Wow you both sure do like coming back here for people who've quit the thread multiple times. I don't know why you come back to bang your head against the wall if the only feedback you can provide is "it is what it is". Go into the threads about combat balance and see how well that flies. I'm going to keep critiquing this system, as it's something I've been advocating for and it's so close to being perfect.

Leogon

Silver_Strider wrote: »

Doesn't ESO+ have enough benefits as is?
I mean, seriously.
Unlimited crafting storage
Double Bank and housing space
Crowns every month
Dyable Outfits
Free access to non-chapter DLC

When does it stop being a bonus and start becoming an entitlement badge?

I'm a sub and I completely agree with you. You get all those perks and more for only $15 a month. OP is a snowflake.