moved

DoctorESO

moved

AzraelKrieg

In the vet trials I have run RaidNotifier is a mandatory requirement. You don't always here the cues from the raid lead so having the addon really helps out with certain phases. A shame it doesn't do calls on AA and HRC outside of call lightning for the Overchargers

Streega

It's a good learning tool, but once you learn the mechanics turn it off. There is something like too much information (on your screen)

Ruckly

haha bowling with the bhaughpurs. Turn your bumpers on folks we are hitting the first boss at the next right. Bumpers on; engage! *Whoosh*

f047ys3v3n

I has been used in all the groups I have run with. Honestly, ESO is so buggy many of the animations and tells for key mechanics do not actually always show up. If you didn't have the raid notifier you would have no way of knowing. They leave these things broken for years.

LordSemaj

I guess the answer depends on whether you consider a mathematician to be an expert in his field if he uses a calculator. Or an architect or engineer to be competent if he uses drawing software like CAD.

I've had this argument with teens who refuse to learn things the old way. The basis for their stance is to use what you have because 99% of the time in reality it's what you'll have available to you anyway. Rarely does a master navigator end up on a deserted island with nothing but his wits and the stars. One could expect he has a compass or maybe a map or both. Or maybe even a satellite radio with GPS.

Basically, intentionally giving yourself a handicap by not using the tools at your disposal doesn't make a person more of a master. Even a master can use every available asset to his advantage.

Ohtimbar

I don't need it so I don't use it, but if you ask me raidnotifier is just doing what the base game should've done all along; teach players how to play the game.

DPShiro

I don’t mind it being available, as some things in game might be too subtle. (anyone with half a brain and 3 fingers can handle mechanics with this add on, it literally tells you what to do)

But it does create an unfair advantage to players not using them, like consoles.
Therefore it shouldn’t be allowed to get a leaderboard score with them enabled, or they need to be available to everyone, so all players have the same prerequisites.

It’s just one of the reasons similar scores on consoles is much more impressive.

NiclasFridholm

Used it before but have turned it of, basicly good for learning mechanics but does feel like cheating a bit...

FakeFox

If you want to be competitive you pretty much have to use it. There are just too many mechanics you pretty much can't see otherwise, often because they are simply bugged. Using it also saves you time as you can often react two or three seconds earlier and can avoid unnecessary running/looking around, which can make or break scores as every single second counts.

Turelus

I haven't heard of many who don't use it.

As others have said the cues you need to pick up on can't always be seen or can be bugged, it's a life saviour for those who want to progress with those issues in consideration.

As for fair play I think it's fine, everyone on PC has access to it and as such it's fair. Those on console shouldn't be worried about this if they're competing with PC players because there are many other things which stop PC vs Console being a fair competition.

Huyen

DoctorESO wrote: »

Elder Scrolls Online (ESO), like any other video game, involves various mechanics that one must learn to truly master the art of the game. This includes, as in the case of ESO raids, being aware of your surroundings and recognizing the "tells" of bosses and when they telegraph impending attacks, and what to do in response.

For those who don't know, RaidNotifier is an add-on that tells you when and what mechanics are occurring as they happen, and in some cases tells you what to do.

For example, in one trial (Veteran Halls of Fabrication), dwemer spheres do an attack called "Taking Aim" wherein they shoot an arrow at a player. If this arrow is not blocked, the player will die. Five seconds before the dwemer does the attack, you can see it do a special telegraphed move, which indicates that the attack is coming. But instead of learning what this move is and keeping an eye out for it, RaidNotifier will do it for you. When the telegraphed move starts, RaidNotifier will flash "Taking Aim in 5 Seconds" on your screen. One second letter, the message will be updated to 4 seconds, and will count down to zero, so you know exactly when to block, and mindlessly so.

As another example, in Veteran Aetherian Archive, the first boss does an attack whereby lightning all over the map - except for one glowing yellow circle (which only appears when the attack starts, and its location varies) - does big damage to everyone. The boss telegraphs this attack in advance so you know when the lightning is incoming. But you don't have to learn this telegraph or be on the lookout for it, because RaidNotifier will tell you "LIGHTNING IS INCOMING, RUN TO THE YELLOW CIRCLE" as soon as the telegraph starts.

These are but two of many examples.

Do REAL raiders use RaidNotifier? Or are top-scoring teams who use RaidNotifier akin to people claiming to be "Master Navigators" and "Master Adventurers" because they can always find their way from any Point A to any Point B using their trusty GPS navigation system whereby they mindlessly follow the directions read to them ("in 100 feet, turn left")?

Or is using RaidNotifier like bowling with the bumpers on? No self-respecting bowler would use the bumpers and claim to be a champion. Can the same be said for raiders and RaidNotifier?


"I'm pretty good at this bowling (raiding) stuff, if I do say so myself!"

Its like using Deadly Boss Mods in WoW, and I'm strongly against it (even when I was playing WoW).

Why you ask?

The reason is simple: imagine the new patch just went live, and the addon didnt get its update untill 2 - 3 weeks after (as its playermade it can take a while as we all know). Then on the same night we are doing a raid / trial with 11 others who all use the addon wich doesnt currently work. Nobody knows what to look for, and so we all die horrible deaths, because we all are to lazy to actually learn something. Not the best way to start your new patch eh? So to all that do vet-trials and such: please dont use it, because when you are trying to teach people the basics on normal, its only logical that you know them yourself first, without relying on an addon.

Turelus

Huyen wrote: »

DoctorESO wrote: »

Elder Scrolls Online (ESO), like any other video game, involves various mechanics that one must learn to truly master the art of the game. This includes, as in the case of ESO raids, being aware of your surroundings and recognizing the "tells" of bosses and when they telegraph impending attacks, and what to do in response.

For those who don't know, RaidNotifier is an add-on that tells you when and what mechanics are occurring as they happen, and in some cases tells you what to do.

For example, in one trial (Veteran Halls of Fabrication), dwemer spheres do an attack called "Taking Aim" wherein they shoot an arrow at a player. If this arrow is not blocked, the player will die. Five seconds before the dwemer does the attack, you can see it do a special telegraphed move, which indicates that the attack is coming. But instead of learning what this move is and keeping an eye out for it, RaidNotifier will do it for you. When the telegraphed move starts, RaidNotifier will flash "Taking Aim in 5 Seconds" on your screen. One second letter, the message will be updated to 4 seconds, and will count down to zero, so you know exactly when to block, and mindlessly so.

As another example, in Veteran Aetherian Archive, the first boss does an attack whereby lightning all over the map - except for one glowing yellow circle (which only appears when the attack starts, and its location varies) - does big damage to everyone. The boss telegraphs this attack in advance so you know when the lightning is incoming. But you don't have to learn this telegraph or be on the lookout for it, because RaidNotifier will tell you "LIGHTNING IS INCOMING, RUN TO THE YELLOW CIRCLE" as soon as the telegraph starts.

These are but two of many examples.

Do REAL raiders use RaidNotifier? Or are top-scoring teams who use RaidNotifier akin to people claiming to be "Master Navigators" and "Master Adventurers" because they can always find their way from any Point A to any Point B using their trusty GPS navigation system whereby they mindlessly follow the directions read to them ("in 100 feet, turn left")?

Or is using RaidNotifier like bowling with the bumpers on? No self-respecting bowler would use the bumpers and claim to be a champion. Can the same be said for raiders and RaidNotifier?


"I'm pretty good at this bowling (raiding) stuff, if I do say so myself!"

Its like using Deadly Boss Mods in WoW, and I'm strongly against it (even when I was playing WoW).

Why you ask?

The reason is simple: imagine the new patch just went live, and the addon didnt get its update untill 2 - 3 weeks after (as its playermade it can take a while as we all know). Then on the same night we are doing a raid / trial with 11 others who all use the addon wich doesnt currently work. Nobody knows what to look for, and so we all die horrible deaths, because we all are to lazy to actually learn something. Not the best way to start your new patch eh? So to all that do vet-trials and such: please dont use it, because when you are trying to teach people the basics on normal, its only logical that you know them yourself first, without relying on an addon.

This doesn't happen though. The add-on merely does what a raid leader or anyone else in the group could do (and often do) any way.

It's not like because you turn the add-on off you'll stop noticing when things are happening 100% of the time, it does however make life easier than saying "Incoming Storm" every 30 seconds.

Jade1986

Def like using bumpers.

Samadhi

DoctorESO wrote: »

...
Or is using RaidNotifier like bowling with the bumpers on? No self-respecting bowler would use the bumpers and claim to be a champion. Can the same be said for raiders and RaidNotifier?
...

Winners don't do drugs,
and there are no issues with steroid use among professional athletes
uhhhhh, something about personal trainers not being able to help boxers in the ring
rah rah rah

after reading your description of this raid notifier thing,
perhaps should get it to make mechanics more manageable in anxiety-producing situations
knowing me, my distractedness would just become habituated to the new notifications

Zer0oo

The short answer is: Yes


Raidnotifierer helps to not miss important mechanics even if the game bugs out and the visuals are almost invisible or you simply can not see the mechanics because the visuals are overlapping with other abilities....
(Also a nice way for learn and lowers the amount of things to call out)

It is more an advanced tool that helps with avoiding stupid mistakes/bugs.

code65536

Some are useful. Some are not.

An example in the totally-useless category would be the lightning protection circle in vAA that you mentioned--there is absolutely no reason for that notification to exist, since it's very obvious when the boss does that ability. However, the circles are hard to see and for some people, slow to render. But RN doesn't tell you where the circle is (because it doesn't know), which is the most important bit of information. I turn this off.

The other one you mentioned--Taking Aim in HoF--is more useful, since it's not always clear amidst all the effects when a sphere is winding up and attack, and whether you are the target is even more likely to be obfuscated. That said, I personally think that the way RN handles Taking Aim is rather noisy and distracting and prefer a more just-the-essentials approach. Still, the telegraphs are not that hard to see once you're used to them, so I typically run with this off. Unless I'm running in a group that's using a burn strategy on that boss (i.e., ignoring and not killing spheres), in which case this notification is extremely useful for interrupters (or if running with no interrupters, then the DPS absolutely need it to dodge). So in this particular case, RN enables risky (and unintended) strategies that would otherwise not work well.

And an example of a must-have notification is the DSA Unstable Core notification, which I added to RaidNotifier. This is where the Stage 7 melee boss places an Eclipse on a player, causing all of their abilities to reflect back on them. The problem with this is that there is absolutely no in-game cue (the visuals are bugged so you don't see that you have an Eclipse on you). Before this notification, the only way you knew that you had been Eclipsed is when you notice your spells reflecting back on you. Sometimes, if that spell is a Frag or an Assassin's Will, you'll know that you were Eclipsed after you one-shot yourself.

Or if you consider vAS+1/+2 and the enragement timers. For people without access to the Asylum addon, they have to track it manually with a stopwatch. That's just stupid that for a mechanic that important and crucial, the game doesn't even provide a "they'll enrage soon!" warning, much less a timer. And I (obviously) have absolutely zero qualms about addons that address such design shortcomings.

So there's a range of usefulness. From things that are noise and that I disable without hesitation, to things that I wouldn't dream of going without. And a lots of middle ground.

And in general, yes, everyone uses these addons, from groups that are learning to competitive groups that are at the very top of the leaderboards, though how much they enable and disable (or pay attention to) will vary, obviously.

Liofa

Almost everyone uses it but never seen anyone who actually depend on it . It is a player made addon . It shows wrong stuff and has bugs . While tanking Warrior , I get the ''You are stunned , do not press the synergy'' message countless times even though I am not stunned . It's not only me but also many others . It is just there to tell you a mechanic is happening in case you missed it . While tanking the 4th boss in vHoF , no one will actually look at the addon warning for boss swap . We all look at our bosses for the small fire/lightning balls . No one waits for the addon to tell them to break free after a stun , they just break free . While fighting the Hunter Killers , do you actually depend on the roll dodge countdown ? Things like that .

It is more like having a guide dog , except you are not blind .

Milvan

Is Doctoreso a Champtw alt? Because they actually "sound" a lot alike XD


Anyway, Raidnotifier is mandatory to my trials. Combat group dps as well. I may also require a awesome outfit as well when u17 hits, who knows, I might be a min/max but I want my trial group to look sharp.

Turelus

DoctorESO wrote: »

Or is using RaidNotifier like bowling with the bumpers on? No self-respecting bowler would use the bumpers and claim to be a champion. Can the same be said for raiders and RaidNotifier?

The part that keeps making me laugh about this analogy is this.

If you put the bumpers up then a any self-respecting bowler wouldn't notice them most of the time, because they would be good enough to never touch them. The same with how we're all saying Raid Notifier works, sure it's there if we really screw up, but most of the time we forget it's even there.

Mureel

Real raiders xD

I think the only people who don't use it are stubborn types who cannot see the benefit of it especially if they are brand new.

Turelus

Mureel wrote: »

Real raiders xD

I think the only people who don't use it are stubborn types who cannot see the benefit of it especially if they are brand new.

I used to be the same when I joined ESO. "I won't use add-ons because they're cheap blah blah" then one day I decided I wanted to actually get better at the game and the tools I needed (buff tracking, damage numbers etc.) were all there if I simply got them.

BlanketFort

I’d be eternally embarrassed if I were to ever be caught dead using it. One of the better aspects of playing on console, skill shines.

BohnT

I don't use it myself as i see raiding as training for pvp where i want to rely on my skill and not some other things.
But i think the addon is a great thing as it's made for PvE and helps to bring more people into endgame raiding and also helps people with bad performance in trials to notice mechanics or people who are overwhelmed in general.

Asmael

I would have said that before HotR, Raid Notifier was pretty much mandatory due to the incredibly high number of bugged graphical effects, animations and telegraphs that are nearly (or completely) invisible. Anything that reduced what I'd refer to as the lovely RBD (Random BS death) was welcomed (aka "getting #Zosed).

To give one of the glorious examples of it, find the 2 negates in the screenie below:

Hint:

There's a large red circle on the left side of the screenshot. I hope you're not color blind.

That's not counting invisible orbs on Rakkhat (still there on this day), invisible negates (still), invisible lightning pools (vHoF 2nd boss), poison pool with no telegraph (AS poison boss teleport sometimes has no red circles, only a hardly visible, small poison cloud that is extremely hard to see with bare eyes), invisible meteors (vAA HM, with only the red circle showing - completely invisible when you stack 6+ different ground AoEs on those) or telegraphs that are smaller than their actual effect (AS poison boss' cone attack near its extremity).

In fact, when custom colors for telegraphs were introduced, I even realized some mechanics had red circles to showcase their area of effect, but that I never got a chance to see those before setting the color to a bright pink / purple (such as the curse on vMoL 1st boss when it's about to land).

So the first thing: I'm still thankful to Zos for introducing the option to disable ally effects and custom colors for telegraphs, it was about time and drastically reduced of really *** deaths that could have been avoided if the raiders weren't getting #Zosed.

There are still issues left to be fixed, such as some character-attached telegraphs (NPCs heavy attacks, like the final boss in bloodroot forge or the Serpent in SO) which could get their own color, Taking aim for HoF change to a reticle to avoid confusion with the Standard of Might buff (which puts a very similar fire effect on your character).

So, is Raid Notifier the same as Miat for PvE? Yes it is. Definitely, and I would have no issue with it going away (except the fact that I have a custom title attached to it but ssssh), as soon as ZoS is going to improve some of the existing animations and effects for better readability. They have gone a long way and made life a lot easier since HotR, but there are still a few things left to do.

Yolokin_Swagonborn

DoctorESO wrote: »

Elder Scrolls Online (ESO), like any other video game, involves various mechanics that one must learn to truly master the art of the game.

Already we are off to an interesting start. Let's talk about some of these "amazing mechanics."

• Like the mechanic where sometimes the game glitches and you actually don't see the visual prompts at all?
• Or the mechanic where ZOS sort of cheats and something kills you even though you had the health, heals or shielding to live through it?
• Or the mechanic where your character lags out and you are unable to preform the required action to save your life?

There is no Mastering RNG. If you like the challenge of fighting raw chance, poorly designed mechanics, stuff that one shots you for 20k when you have 40k health, etc, then you go enjoy it.

No need to make a pejorative thread calling out everyone else that just wants to get their bloody gear and get the hell out of whatever, boring, monotonous themepark experience ZOS has locked it behind this time.

Maybe you like standing in a bunch, DPSing the leg joint of a giant mechanical ridiculous looking beast while it utters 3 ominous phrases at you on repeat. More power to you.

I'd rather turn the volume down, play some power metal, and farm the stupid thing till I get my gear and can leave. If Raid Notifier will tell me when to do some dumb mechanic, instead of having to listen to a deep voice say "FEAST YOUR EYES MORTALS!!" and some guy on discord telling me "Now when the boss says 'feast your eyes,' you all have to spin around 3 times counterclockwise and grab your crotch, then do the moonwalk, or you will die from 60k un-resistible damage" then I love raid notifier. Give me the bumpers baby. Let me get my gear and get the hell out.

Play it the way you like it, but don't try to get something nerfed that you don't even use.

DoctorESO

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DoctorESO

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AzraelKrieg

DoctorESO wrote: »

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

DoctorESO wrote: »

Elder Scrolls Online (ESO), like any other video game, involves various mechanics that one must learn to truly master the art of the game.

Already we are off to an interesting start. Let's talk about some of these "amazing mechanics."

• Like the mechanic where sometimes the game glitches and you actually don't see the visual prompts at all?
• Or the mechanic where ZOS sort of cheats and something kills you even though you had the health, heals or shielding to live through it?
• Or the mechanic where your character lags out and you are unable to preform the required action to save your life?

There is no Mastering RNG. If you like the challenge of fighting raw chance, poorly designed mechanics, stuff that one shots you for 20k when you have 40k health, etc, then you go enjoy it.

No need to make a pejorative thread calling out everyone else that just wants to get their bloody gear and get the hell out of whatever, boring, monotonous themepark experience ZOS has locked it behind this time.

Maybe you like standing in a bunch, DPSing the leg joint of a giant mechanical ridiculous looking beast while it utters 3 ominous phrases at you on repeat. More power to you.

I'd rather turn the volume down, play some power metal, and farm the stupid thing till I get my gear and can leave. If Raid Notifier will tell me when to do some dumb mechanic, instead of having to listen to a deep voice say "FEAST YOUR EYES MORTALS!!" and some guy on discord telling me "Now when the boss says 'feast your eyes,' you all have to spin around 3 times counterclockwise and grab your crotch, then do the moonwalk, or you will die from 60k un-resistible damage" then I love raid notifier. Give me the bumpers baby. Let me get my gear and get the hell out.

Play it the way you like it, but don't try to get something nerfed that you don't even use.

Thank you for the reply. Am I correct in my understanding that you do raids just for the gear, as opposed to the leaderboard competition (other than perhaps getting the minimum score necessary to get on the weekly)? That you experience zero fun in doing raids and in fact hate them but feel obligated to do so just to obtain best-in-slot gear? If so, I do not think my message is targeted at you.

But in any case, I disagree with you - the "giant mechanical-looking beast" does not look ridiculous at all. In fact, it's pretty damn amazing.

I very much doubt he does trials since he spends most of his time on here complaining about the game and I think he has mentioned that he refuses to play it in its current state.

DoctorESO

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Princess_Ciri

real raiders go outside and fight dwemers IRL, none of this playing behind a screen nonsense.

Anyway I only raid blindfolded and with my hands tied behind my back because otherwise it's too easy. I press buttons with my nose.