Nerf Screaming Cliff Racer Already!

Beardimus

GIF game is suprisingly strong in this thread

DoctorESO

.

tinythinker

Time for the ESO nerf song (to the tune of Devos' Whip It!):

Lava whip
Dark Cloak for the slip
Proccing a Frag
This fight's in the bag
When a class skill comes along
[You must nerf it...]
And it seems a little strong
[You must nerf it...]
There must be something wrong
[You must nerf it...]

Now nerf it
Make it safe
Safe for pugs
Troll bait
So awkward
Hit my head
Could not deflect it
It's way too late
To nerf it
Nerf it good

When my character goes down
[You must nerf it...]
More QQ posts will be found
[Unless you nerf it]
They won't go away
[Until they nerf it]

I say nerf it
Nerf it good
I say nerf it
Nerf it good

Lava whip
Dark Cloak for the slip
Proccing a Frag
This fight's in the bag
When a class skill comes along
[You must nerf it...]
And it seems a little strong
[You must nerf it...]
There must be something wrong
[You must nerf it...]

Now nerf it
Make it safe
Safe for pugs
Troll bait
So awkward
Hit my head
Could not deflect it
It's way too late
To nerf it
Make it safe
Safe for pugs
Troll bait
So awkward
Hit my head
Could not deflect it
It's way too late
To nerf it
Nerf it good

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j_QLzthSkfM

Crack that whip
Give the past a slip
Step on a crack
Break your momma's back

When a problem comes along
You must whip it
Before the cream sets out too long
You must whip it
When something's goin' wrong
You must whip it

Now whip it
Into shape
Shape it up
Get straight
Go forward
Move ahead
Try to detect it
It's not too late
To whip it
Whip it good

When a good time turns around
You must whip it
You will never live it down
Unless you whip it
No one gets away
Until they whip it
I say whip it
Whip it good
I say whip it
Whip it good

Crack that whip
Give the past a slip
Step on a crack
Break your momma's back

When a problem comes along
You must whip it
Before the cream sets out too long
You must whip it
When something's goin' wrong
You must whip it

Now whip it
Into shape
Shape it up
Get straight
Go forward
Move ahead
Try to detect it
It's not too late
To whip it
Get straight
Go forward
Move ahead
Try to detect it
It's not too late
To whip it
Whip it good

Thalmor-Nordmaster

the people who flat-out don't know what they are talking about is strong in this thread. the gifs are a wonderful distraction

SirCritical

tinythinker wrote: »

...

My new hymn.

Chilly-McFreeze

Thalmor-Nordmaster wrote: »

well according to two smurfs who I pelted with birds they are dodgeable. same with what my combat log states. one smurf named after a fish and a stick dodged a bunch of them about 20 minutes ago at fare farm. but the bugs got him and his girlfriend.Oh and the vamp at the farm blocked one taking only 661 damage. He ran away as well





so not 100 percent Undodgeable.

So Tweet Tweet mophos.

Your addon probable mistakes a miss for a dodge. Sets that make you miss your attacks (meridia's blessed armor) can make your birds fail to land. But you still can't dodge roll from the birds. So yes, I guess you're right, the amount of people who flat out don't know what they are talking about is indeed too high.

Thalmor-Nordmaster

nope chilly no mistake on my end. They can be dodged. Despite what any tooltip says. Maybe people should spend more time playing a warden. Now I am going to have a nice breakfast. Then I will go back and make it a Bird Spam Saturday!! Who is with me lets go Bird Spamming!!

Chilly-McFreeze

Thalmor-Nordmaster wrote: »

nope chilly no mistake on my end. They can be dodged. Despite what any tooltip says. Maybe people should spend more time playing a warden. Now I am going to have a nice breakfast. Then I will go back and make it a Bird Spam Saturday!! Who is with me lets go Bird Spamming!!

I'm rather intrigued. And I'm not saying you made a mistake, I said that the addon may mishandle a miss for a dodge. I really like to see a video record of someone dodging an undodgeable ability via dodge roll.

It could also be that they procced a miss-window and made a redundand dodge, so it seems like he rolled away from it.

Tommy_The_Gun

Thalmor-Nordmaster wrote: »

well according to two smurfs who I pelted with birds they are dodgeable. same with what my combat log states. one smurf named after a fish and a stick dodged a bunch of them about 20 minutes ago at fare farm. but the bugs got him and his girlfriend.Oh and the vamp at the farm blocked one taking only 661 damage. He ran away as well





so not 100 percent Undodgeable.

So Tweet Tweet mophos.

What add-on you are using ? I am pretty sure that when it comes to roll-dodge those are 100% un-daodgable.
There is also an option that the one who dodged it could have Major/Minor Evasion that gives passive dodge chance 15% / 5% (different type of dodge than roll dodge) - but I always thought it does not work since it is un-dodgeable (and technically it should not so it might be a bug).

The other option is Meridia’s Blessed Set
http://elderscrollsonline.wiki.fextralife.com/Meridia’s+Blessed+Armor+Set
"When you block an attack, you have a 33% chance to blind your attacker, causing them to miss all of their attacks for 5 seconds. This effect can occur once every 10 seconds."

AzraelKrieg

Easy counter to Cliff Racers: Block.

coop500

I dunno why people refuse to use the counters we have.

Why do you all want all skills to work the same? This is diversity, it makes you think instead of just spamming dodge roll and avoiding everything mindlessly.

Jade1986

Thalmor-Nordmaster wrote: »

Jade read my above post it is dodgeable look at the log I just posted. So at least two people(Smurfs) know how to Dodge it. I think if people are nice to those two lil smurfy blueberries they might show others how to dodge the super pigeons of poo poo. So undodgeable not. Misinfo on this thread MAXIMIZED!!!

Mr. Jade my post is not directed at you. I was merely trying to address your post as well.

The misinformation is from people who never played a Warden. And who think that by just casting shuffle you are good to go. But as the logs show birds can be dodged just like in real life. And those two smurfs were in the Fare storehouse when I started to bomb them they really had nowhere to run. but they still managed to avoid the birds and run into the bugs.

Miss Jade . Aside from that, I agree, I just forgot to quote someone.

ToRelax

coop500 wrote: »

I dunno why people refuse to use the counters we have.

Why do you all want all skills to work the same? This is diversity, it makes you think instead of just spamming dodge roll and avoiding everything mindlessly.

The problem isn't that people don't want to use counters but that certain builds are lacking any counters they could implement. You're not gonna see better results by trying to block Cliffracers without a shield/ice staff and heavy armor. If there was some skill that medium armor dualwield/bow builds could use to effectively deal with Cliffracers, we wouldn't be having this conversation. As it stands, it's just LOS, block when not too many other attacks are incoming, some miss chance, and outhealing as much as possible with HoTs.

Thalmor-Nordmaster

This is why I stopped using Birds. This why I thought everyone stopped using birds. Everything is dodged. Even the so-called "Undodgeable" And if it was a Meridia set then I would have been blinded. I missed no attacks on the flag keepers or on the vamp as it ran away. I did, however, lose sight of the vamp when it popped smoke and disappeared.

I have been playing the warden Since the NDA days. At first, birds were great then, dodge, dodge, dodge. So I went to bugs and debuffs at the choke points. I am not willing to speculate on the gear or the skills that are being used. There are some sets that can enhance dodge and maybe some obsolete accessories.

I cannot say that it is some elite ninja club members only skill. I can only say as a warden that they "the undodgeable pigeon of I'm pooping on your car!" is in fact dodgeable. It would be really awesome if those who knew how to dodge would post up the hows. Knowledge keeps the nerf hammer away.

A quick thought came to me about a certain pot. I will test it and see.

Can pots stack effects?
Can the cooldowns on pots be bypassed?
Have all pots been tested?
Emotes can they still be quickly activated and canceled?
and no I am not thinking along the lines of "that GD Engine"
Does Miats give incoming about birds?
Range to target?

And I apologize to those who I have offended in my previous posts.

While others have experienced the birds as unavoidable. From my perspective, they became unreliable due to "dodge" I used them on blues and reds of all kinds and builds some were good connects others were not. Here is what I have noticed if a player is running towards you then you are pretty much going to get hit. Misses the one that says "Miss" in the UI usually occur when it is an evasion dodge rolling build and you are firing birds at then from a perpendicular position. for example, they are 18 meters away and running from your three to nine o'clock or your 9 to 3. Firing at a player from a diagonal position seems to be the dodge zone.

Now they do have less of a dodge chance than say reflective light. I really like my RL they can hit pretty hard as an experiment I built just for them and at 3 balls per second, it's a lot of fun. But you get focused real fast. Like really really fast. and then its clubs and boots and death and stuff.

So my promise to everyone on this board is that I will get more involved and be more polite.I enjoy testing stuff.

If I disagree I will explain my position with the best evidence at my disposal. Now let me go test more poopy birds.

And again my apologies Miss Jade

SodanTok

ToRelax wrote: »

SodanTok wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

Rowjoh wrote: »

Seriously?

There are only a small handful of players that make Wardens as damage dealers viable in pvp and they are probably using macro's, animation cancelling and every other trick in the book to do so.

Cliff racers are so easy to avoid, it's amusing.

So how do you avoid Cliffracers?

Avoid getting targeted: Cloak, Sneak, Invisibility potions, LoS
Avoid getting hit: Cloak, Meridia Armor, Other sources of Miss
Avoid getting damaged: Shields, Absorb
Avoid getting fully damaged: Block, Mitigation
Avoid dying: Heal
What does not work: Dodge, Reflect

but seriously, remove the 15% damage from the morph. It is literally just for zerg chasing.

I'm not sure what you're trying to accomplish with a list like that. Only the first two points are actually avoiding the skill and the first one doesn't work once the skill has been fired.
I can deal relatively well with Cliffracers because dodge roll isn't as crucial for me as it is for medium armor builds. Remember undodgeable melee magicka skills in 1.6? That was bad enough, but then there was broken nirnhoned armor to mitigate it. Now nirnhoned is nerfed and we are looking at a more powerful ranged undodgeable spammable. Wtf?

Half the skills in this game have less counters than this. It is only logical to assume the problem is not what cant counter it, but why are all the counters bad for one particular spec or flat out missing.

It is really just medium armor issue and making one ability dodgeable while hundred others remain wont change anything and still leaves the main problem. While destroying the last usefulness of this ability.

klowdy1

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

klowdy1 wrote: »

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

Radinyn wrote: »

Warden is the secound weakest class (after NB) leave him alone.

For PvE ? Sure it is not preforming that well. But the whole paradox is that warden is extremely OP in PvP. Mostly because of a fact that Screaming Cliff Racer (all morphs and base skill) is un-dodgeable. It is literally the only single target spam-able skill in game that has that "feature". Even some "charged", cast skill like snipe that require 1.1 sec casting time can be dodged.
In my opinion it is simply well... almost against eso own rules and mechanics. Only skills that are un-dogable by nature are all AOE skills. Even some single target non-aoe ults can be dodged. It is as if ZOS wanted every single warden to be a bird spammer...

btw. Warden is a living proof that PvE & PvP should be balanced separately... Also - check this:
http://elderscrollsonline.wiki.fextralife.com/Teleport+Strike
NB Teleport Strike skill:
"If the target is a player, they are briefly snared instead of stunned."
So this skill has a different affect in PvP & different in PvE. So - as you can see it is possible to balance PvP & PvE separately. Just make slight adjustments to this skill (Screaming Cliff Racer) PvP wise and it should not affect PvE in any way.

Well there we go, let's give it splash damage then.

Right there, I love it.

ToRelax

SodanTok wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

SodanTok wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

Rowjoh wrote: »

Seriously?

There are only a small handful of players that make Wardens as damage dealers viable in pvp and they are probably using macro's, animation cancelling and every other trick in the book to do so.

Cliff racers are so easy to avoid, it's amusing.

So how do you avoid Cliffracers?

Avoid getting targeted: Cloak, Sneak, Invisibility potions, LoS
Avoid getting hit: Cloak, Meridia Armor, Other sources of Miss
Avoid getting damaged: Shields, Absorb
Avoid getting fully damaged: Block, Mitigation
Avoid dying: Heal
What does not work: Dodge, Reflect

but seriously, remove the 15% damage from the morph. It is literally just for zerg chasing.

I'm not sure what you're trying to accomplish with a list like that. Only the first two points are actually avoiding the skill and the first one doesn't work once the skill has been fired.
I can deal relatively well with Cliffracers because dodge roll isn't as crucial for me as it is for medium armor builds. Remember undodgeable melee magicka skills in 1.6? That was bad enough, but then there was broken nirnhoned armor to mitigate it. Now nirnhoned is nerfed and we are looking at a more powerful ranged undodgeable spammable. Wtf?

Half the skills in this game have less counters than this. It is only logical to assume the problem is not what cant counter it, but why are all the counters bad for one particular spec or flat out missing.

It is really just medium armor issue and making one ability dodgeable while hundred others remain wont change anything and still leaves the main problem. While destroying the last usefulness of this ability.

Most other undodgeable skills don't create the same pressure because they're nto spammable, don't deal a lot of damage in the first place and/or are AoE that can be avoided by other means.

I agree it would be fine if every build had a way to reliably deal with it though.

SugaComa

Rowjoh wrote: »

Seriously?

There are only a small handful of players that make Wardens as damage dealers viable in pvp and they are probably using macro's, animation cancelling and every other trick in the book to do so.

Cliff racers are so easy to avoid, it's amusing.

None of those on console and they are swarming cyrodil as they are massively overpowered

SodanTok

ToRelax wrote: »

SodanTok wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

SodanTok wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

Rowjoh wrote: »

Seriously?

There are only a small handful of players that make Wardens as damage dealers viable in pvp and they are probably using macro's, animation cancelling and every other trick in the book to do so.

Cliff racers are so easy to avoid, it's amusing.

So how do you avoid Cliffracers?

Avoid getting targeted: Cloak, Sneak, Invisibility potions, LoS
Avoid getting hit: Cloak, Meridia Armor, Other sources of Miss
Avoid getting damaged: Shields, Absorb
Avoid getting fully damaged: Block, Mitigation
Avoid dying: Heal
What does not work: Dodge, Reflect

but seriously, remove the 15% damage from the morph. It is literally just for zerg chasing.

I'm not sure what you're trying to accomplish with a list like that. Only the first two points are actually avoiding the skill and the first one doesn't work once the skill has been fired.
I can deal relatively well with Cliffracers because dodge roll isn't as crucial for me as it is for medium armor builds. Remember undodgeable melee magicka skills in 1.6? That was bad enough, but then there was broken nirnhoned armor to mitigate it. Now nirnhoned is nerfed and we are looking at a more powerful ranged undodgeable spammable. Wtf?

Half the skills in this game have less counters than this. It is only logical to assume the problem is not what cant counter it, but why are all the counters bad for one particular spec or flat out missing.

It is really just medium armor issue and making one ability dodgeable while hundred others remain wont change anything and still leaves the main problem. While destroying the last usefulness of this ability.

Most other undodgeable skills don't create the same pressure because they're nto spammable, don't deal a lot of damage in the first place and/or are AoE that can be avoided by other means.

I disagree. Most undodgeable skills create same or worse pressure. The only thing cliff racer excels at is hunting dodge rollers 20v1. And that is all on magicka morph of bird.

Never felt pressure that much by stamina bird, yet it is undodgeable too.

Smmokkee

Thalmor-Nordmaster wrote: »

the people who flat-out don't know what they are talking about is strong in this thread. the gifs are a wonderful distraction

Yeah like you lol. Stating an undodgeable ability is dodgeable through the dodge mechanics.. its like wut? Lol.. the only way I can get birds to miss on me is if I cloak. Everytime I roll dodge and theres a bird it face plants right into me.

Smmokkee

Thalmor-Nordmaster wrote: »

This is why I stopped using Birds. This why I thought everyone stopped using birds. Everything is dodged. Even the so-called "Undodgeable" And if it was a Meridia set then I would have been blinded. I missed no attacks on the flag keepers or on the vamp as it ran away. I did, however, lose sight of the vamp when it popped smoke and disappeared.

I have been playing the warden Since the NDA days. At first, birds were great then, dodge, dodge, dodge. So I went to bugs and debuffs at the choke points. I am not willing to speculate on the gear or the skills that are being used. There are some sets that can enhance dodge and maybe some obsolete accessories.

I cannot say that it is some elite ninja club members only skill. I can only say as a warden that they "the undodgeable pigeon of I'm pooping on your car!" is in fact dodgeable. It would be really awesome if those who knew how to dodge would post up the hows. Knowledge keeps the nerf hammer away.

A quick thought came to me about a certain pot. I will test it and see.

Can pots stack effects?
Can the cooldowns on pots be bypassed?
Have all pots been tested?
Emotes can they still be quickly activated and canceled?
and no I am not thinking along the lines of "that GD Engine"
Does Miats give incoming about birds?
Range to target?

And I apologize to those who I have offended in my previous posts.

While others have experienced the birds as unavoidable. From my perspective, they became unreliable due to "dodge" I used them on blues and reds of all kinds and builds some were good connects others were not. Here is what I have noticed if a player is running towards you then you are pretty much going to get hit. Misses the one that says "Miss" in the UI usually occur when it is an evasion dodge rolling build and you are firing birds at then from a perpendicular position. for example, they are 18 meters away and running from your three to nine o'clock or your 9 to 3. Firing at a player from a diagonal position seems to be the dodge zone.

Now they do have less of a dodge chance than say reflective light. I really like my RL they can hit pretty hard as an experiment I built just for them and at 3 balls per second, it's a lot of fun. But you get focused real fast. Like really really fast. and then its clubs and boots and death and stuff.

So my promise to everyone on this board is that I will get more involved and be more polite.I enjoy testing stuff.

If I disagree I will explain my position with the best evidence at my disposal. Now let me go test more poopy birds.

And again my apologies Miss Jade

Lol the only warden in cyrodiil that cant hit someone with birds.. how? Idk.

Ragnarock41

Radinyn wrote: »

Warden is the secound weakest class (after NB) leave him alone.

pvp? nb? warden? weak? what?

coop500

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Radinyn wrote: »

Warden is the secound weakest class (after NB) leave him alone.

pvp? nb? warden? weak? what?

Yeah I laughed at this. NB is like THE class for PVP

DoctorESO

.

Thalmor-Nordmaster

smokkee you can lay off the attacks and insults.

Izaki

Speed up the bird, make the bird dodgeable.

Smmokkee

Thalmor-Nordmaster wrote: »

smokkee you can lay off the attacks and insults.

Those arent attacks or insults just truths.

ToRelax

Thalmor-Nordmaster wrote: »

smokkee you can lay off the attacks and insults.

You tried to call out other people on spreading misinformation, not realizing you were the one not understanding what was going on. Don't be upset when you are being called out on it yourself.

DoctorESO

.

Thalmor-Nordmaster

Smokee and tor as I understand it they are dodgeable even though they should not be. And yes I went off of the deep end and got angry. And like I posted up in that short fight there are dodges present not misses. And I provided the evidence. And I apologized. I also explained in detail what I knew about the bird.

However, one thing does come to mind and that is Console and PC. I am on PC. Is this a console issue with the birds. Could it be an add-on on PC that is elevating dodge chance? I know consoles do not have add-ons quite a few of my guild went to console to get away from the add-ons.