PTS Update 17 - Feedback Thread for Skills Advisor

ZOS_GinaBruno

This is the official feedback thread for the Skills Advisor. Specific feedback that the team is looking for includes the following:

• Did you try any of the advanced builds? If so, what did you think of them?
• Was there any point where you were confused, or didn’t know where to spend skill points?
• If you completed a suggested build, what did you think of the total package of abilities?
• Do you have any other general feedback?

Caff32

Your suggestion that Lotus Fan is ill-advised for a magic NB while advising Ambush is strange. Same with encouraging Refreshing Path over Twisting Path for a DPS character. Got to be a bug, right?

Caff32

Also, so many things like Double Take v. Mirage and Dark Cloak v. Shadowy Disguise are so subjective. Not sure how you could advise one over another without more information.

Giraffon

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

BASE GAME UPDATES

Level Up Advisor
This new system is designed to teach new players about the many facets of combat and progression in ESO. It contains useful rewards for new and veteran players alike as you progress from levels 2-50, and every five levels, you will receive a milestone reward with something special such as a mount, Crown Crate, costume, or a helpfulweapon. Simply open the Character UI to claim your rewards! Below, you’ll find the list of milestone rewards:

• Level 5: Two Green-quality Rings, part of a basic 2-piece Item Set that grants a Max Health bonus
• Level 10: Sorrel Horse
• Level 15: A choice of 6 blue-quality weapons
• Level 20: A costume of choice and a Fire Atronach Crown Crate
• Level 25: A choice of 6 purple-quality weapons
• Level 30: 4,000 gold and a Fire Atronach Crown Crate
• Level 35: A choice of 10 purple-quality crafting-improvement materials
• Level 40: 6,000 gold, The Soul Shriven motif, and an Outfit Token
• Level 45: An Undaunted Key
• Level 50: 10,000 gold and a Fire Atronach Crown Crate

Wait. How does this work? I'm already level 50. Do I get any of this stuff retroactive? What if I create a new character? Are these rewards per character or once per account?

I'm just lookin' at those crown crates and I'm sorta' droolin'.

niawrathb16_ESO

With the build/skill suggestions I had followed the choices of the Elemental Mage build and then by the healer which chooses 2 different morphs of the Conjured Ward skill, there is no message or tooltip explaining the need to reset the skill morphs, I think this would be useful for new players.

I found the skill suggestions basic but a good general set up, with the most common skills players use. However there is only 50 points allocated, and some skills are selected to level the skill line but then not morphed and this is not explained in a tooltip that these skills are for leveling or unlocking later skills not for using the skills themselves such as the volatile familiar in the Elemental mage build. This is important otherwise new players may choose morphs or passive for these skills when they don't need them for the build.

I understand you are making just a basic build to get players started but you earn 64 skill points in the 50 levels just for levelling up.

I like the advised and not advised message on the morphs however i don't like the warning icon if you choose a different morph then to the one suggested.

niawrathb16_ESO

@Giraffon They have said the crown crates and rewards are per account. They will not give them retroactively but you can earn them if you level up a new character.

Basically they will give you these rewards for the first time a character hits those levels once the patch goes live.

EDIT: Also there is a separate thread for the level up rewards and there maybe more answers and insights there.

Grouf

This isn't so much an "advisor" as it is a list of skills that fall into the selected role, with the idea being "Get these skills then read them and figure out on your own how this build is suppose to work".

Elemental Arcanist selected, that's magicka damage; 13 skills, 3 skills are non-damage (2 shields), 8 skill have advised morphs (others don't need morphs apparently). No passive skills were advised. No healing skills were advised. No explanation as to why those skills were advised.

Why were no healing abilities suggested? I get that this is a multiplayer game and eventually you'll be partied with healers but 95% of your content is solo PvE, we have to be able to heal ourselves somehow. Are we suppose to stack the damage shields (neither of which were Steadfast Ward)? Halfway through I equipped a healing staff to see if the skills would change but they didn't, still just gives damage skills. Are we suppose to change the selected build to get healing skills? If so, maybe you should implement major/minor build system. i.e. I want to be mainly damage dealing with self-healing, then suggest some healing skills (like Steadfast Ward in place of one of the other shields).

Unstable Familiar was advised but has no hint that it needs to be on both bars so it won't unsummon when the weapon is swapped. No morph advised for it.

Elemental Storm was advised, but no morph for it. Considering the build is called Elemental Arcanist I'd think you'd advise a morph for Elemental Storm.

You said your idea was to help new players, and I encourage that type of help (I want that help myself since I'm not the best player so I will take all the help I can get), but this misses the mark. New players are better off not getting this game-supplied help, having no advice forces them to ask friends and guild mates so they get proper info and get directed to useful websites that explain the build and how it works.

I think this system could be really good, but it needs a lot more work.

Zer0oo

I only took a short look at it on a templer(max cp and all points in magicka).

My thought so far:


If it advised one skill it do NOT tell why you should pick this skill. It maybe nice for player to know why this could be the better skill for this build. Some short explanation is missing:

e.g. with all your points in magicka this ability will hit harder than the morph that cost stam
this skill does awesome ground damage
this skill will buff all your attacks
having this skill on your bar will make your attacks do more damage and gives your major pro
...


I really would not call that a build or anything like that. It are just random skill that are advised to pick. No a single word on where to put them or how to use. You just get told to get 4 skill but you have space for 6 more?

The healer build is bad. No one uses "healing ritual". No word on any support skill! Elem drain is a must for a healer to run if there are mag dds. Warhorn is also nice. Combat prayer gives your grp a damage buff. Mutagen is a nice heal over time same as cleasing ritual. And breath of life is an awesome burst heal which was the only other healing skill mention.

If you really want to push player to try out abilities you maybe also should introduce an challenge-reward system. Use x-ability to heal Y points on a grp member. Use V-skill to kill mobs. ....


You could use this setup you created for your build adviser and expand it so other player can share builds(maybe incl gear, cp ...) with each other or just save your build if you want to switch fast between pve and pvp builds or tank and dps build. And maybe use some official published builds for each patch like you did already sometimes on the webpage.

Tasear

So far looks... like needs more flesh.

As an Adviser it should give a brief explanation why x skill is advised.

Now reviewing the builds

Sorc tank

---- it is very incomplete

Doesn't use puncture. I suppose nice for diversity.... but arrgo fire is third level undaunted skill. Something has to be changed. It doesn't look good for new players.

I followed the skill pathway and ended up missing a skill.... no wait it was 2 blanks on my bars. Now why is that...

Why doesn't it warn or suggest using pets on 2 bars... even so ... still lacking a skill slot.

There's a typo in the description for sorc tank "wade into battle". Also note this description is lame and boring... please consider something with more spunk.

Tasear

Did you try any of the advanced builds? If so, what did you think of them?

Will these be worked on for the future? Will you add more overtime, maybe from battlemage corner? So far though I a bit feeling they are lacking some flesh.


Was there any point where you were confused, or didn’t know where to spend skill points?

Yes... with sorc tank. I was missing 2 slots. With the sorc healer missing morph suggestion for pancea.

If you completed a suggested build, what did you think of the total package of abilities?


Questionable is what I think, somethings are incomplete of course. But I wondering why x skill was picked.

Do you have any other general feedback?

Level Advisor needs a picture to go with him. I mean ever other game has one right. What is this mentor's name or image. Is it all in our heads?

Tasear

Sorc healer build

Eldritch mender - I keep reading it over and over, but that description doesn't make sense. It makes more sense for dragon knight healer or even my sorc healer build. There's nothing in current to suggest it using any shields or ... even drains vaility. As you don't use elemetal drain (siphon sprit doesn't count as doesn't hurt enemies. that's what I do

Okay... enough with my complaints

Bar 1

seems like a tradition lineup, but it's confusing that doesn't suggest rapid regeneration morph. I understand it's so not once morph is favored over the other, but maybe say both are advisable morphs?

Bar 2

Dark exchange to dark deal is not at all advisble of healer. This had to been a mistake. You would want to them trade stamina for magicka as a healer. This skill helps with there shortcommings and also gives sorc healer something to be proud of.

Bolt escape, is unmorphed skill from advisor. I suggest ball of lighting. It will give it moblity to add to it's placement of orbs and escaping situations.

So I ask myself... why pancea... this is a huge mistake. Keeping the feel of noob sorc healer you should instead suggest storm annotach for major besker.

Overall though it's kinda decent... but mind you prepare for compliants on twlight spawn time being 1.5 secs or needing two bars again.

Doctordarkspawn

It sounds like this little skill advisor is highlighting more disonnects between the playerbase and the devs. Devs, take real big note of this and the problems people have with some skills. Work with the players, do not dictate to the players how they need to play reguardless of whether or not the skills are good or not.

Because it seems like half these choices allready are stuff you would never pick if you knew better. I'll say more on this when I download the PTS again.

Tasear

Hire me

Okay on to other matters,

It concerns me you have no debuff for restiances between sorc healer and tank, since no elemental drain or punture.

I don't understand why mage light or bound amour more like was suggested over emprowered ward. It's one few notable buffs they have.

Again...pets 2 bars... this seems like an issue.

Okay...those might be negible but why isn't exploitation passive suggested. It's a buff for allies you get for using dark exchange and it's morphs

Joy_Division

I don;t get the concept of an "ill-advised morph." If it's ill-advised, perhaps the combat team should work on improving the it instead of telling new players not to use it.

BTW, the adviser's sorcerer suggestions are ill-advised. Crystal Blast? Lightning Flood? No...

Tasear

Taear has 5000 makes great thoery crafting, and quite close connected to the people. Loyal fan... could be loyal employee.

Much love seems like builds are a work in progress. So now I visit dk healer healer

First this description is oldy familiar. But we'll do healers don't grant health but wardens do.

It's decent, but lacks, a bit of focus. Actually @Elloa please review and give expert thoughts. Back my thoughts... Well stuff is unmorphed. Why do suggestion all light amour passives for dk healer and not sorc? Missing important passives on do mountain blessings minor buff or why didn't give them helping hands passive when dark deal was thought be good choice for sorc?

Skillwise shattering rocks is air off balance. Should probably be included. Ash cloud is also nice keep eniemies on bay like talons.

I am wondering if trimmic valor will work with ward Ally.

Overall needs work but nice to see.

Magdalina

This needs improving. Beyond the obvious fixing outright stupid suggestions(no, Lightning Splash is still trash, Zeni. If you want people to choose it, you need it to give it more love, not advice it to poor newbies who don't know better), IT NEEDS INFORMATION.

It seems it's basically telling you "good morph/bad morph" with no explanation whatsoever. How is that any helpful? Are you expecting people to rely on that system forever, taking things "just because", then wondering why something may not work, or do you actually want them to learn and make informed choices? Hint, for the success of such a system, you want option 2. You need to teach people cause and consequence for ESO skill choosing, not, you know, flatout tell them how to play. Advising certain skills for certain builds is fine, but at the very least add short explanations there.

Don't get me wrong, the idea on its own is great but that's pretty much the worst implementation one could come up with. Please don't get it go live like this, we have enough issues with confused/uninformed new players as is - this'd only make it worse in this state.

Morgul667

liquid lighting and crystal fragment being ill advised ... that made me laugh irl

seriously, this needs fixing

Loralai_907

Tonight I just made a template character and more or less just mucked about. I always make a stam DK Bosmer as my template character. As I was spending skill points, one of the two stam morphs we have in the class skills flagged and said I had made a not optimal choice and should respec to correct it. Well, I'm obviously not going to do that. I think that the system is going to need some tweaking over time.

Next, I will make a totally new and random character and try to follow what it suggests exactly and see what happens. Until I see it from the beginning I may not understand how it is working and IF it is leading towards a variety of build options or just one path. While one path is a good start, if that is all it is doing, it should be improved upon to include stam or mag builds for each class with tips on skills useful to specific roles as well.

driosketch

Am I missing something. I like that I can hit the gear and see five build options, Initiate, Mag DPS, Stam DPS, Tank, and healer. But it looks mostly like a long list of active skill and passives I've already spent a point on and three recommendations.

Tasear

mommadani907 wrote: »

Tonight I just made a template character and more or less just mucked about. I always make a stam DK Bosmer as my template character. As I was spending skill points, one of the two stam morphs we have in the class skills flagged and said I had made a not optimal choice and should respec to correct it. Well, I'm obviously not going to do that. I think that the system is going to need some tweaking over time.

Next, I will make a totally new and random character and try to follow what it suggests exactly and see what happens. Until I see it from the beginning I may not understand how it is working and IF it is leading towards a variety of build options or just one path. While one path is a good start, if that is all it is doing, it should be improved upon to include stam or mag builds for each class with tips on skills useful to specific roles as well.

So this kinda of confusion suggests might be better to have player pick a role before using a it. This would deflate the dps overpopulation. If they saw options to well pick tank or healer for each class.

To tagged person you have options to pick roles between dps mp or stm or healer or tank with adviser.

Calderon06

This system should be awesome till lvl 30-40.

I tested it pour a Sorcerer and propose Magsorc / Stamsorc / MagTank or Magheal in a way show the new players that ESO is not a MMO like others.

BUT

He can't discover this for is how with this systems.

In the same time, the advisor show the skills and passive BUT not explain more than we read without the assistant.

For example, if you take the MagTank, when do you explain that IceStaff can taunt ennemies.
A new player will take automaticly a sword and a shield and raise the skills but in this case, the advisor will not propose the Staff.

RaddlemanNumber7

Possible Bug.

I finished Firemoth tutorial. Levelled up to level 4. The Skills Advisor showed Recovery I as the only unlockable advised ability. But I had not got Light Armour unlocked on the Skills tree. I clicked on the Recovery I icon on the Skills Advisor window and selected "unlock" on the "Purchase Ability" dialogue. Light Armour appeared on the Skills window, but greyed out and it looks like I haven't successfully purchased Recovery I. See Screenshot...

Restarted ESO and logged in again - no change.

Equipping 3 pieces of Light Armour unlocked the Light Armour skill properly, and I was then able to purchase Recovery I.

HeroOfNone

Morning! I think this is a fairly good start to an adviser system that could be expanded slightly to be really good for users.

Did you try any of the advanced builds? If so, what did you think of them?
I went with the stamina build DK, wasn't too far off, but it didn't include some of the meta info most look for. For example a lot if the fighters guild stuff seemed ignored.


Was there any point where you were confused, or didn’t know where to spend skill points?
No, most of thst was straight forward.

If you completed a suggested build, what did you think of the total package of abilities?
Most of it seemed close to what I do now

Do you have any other general feedback?
Yes, mostly to expand and focus less on the builds. How to expand

- Let players input custom build advisors. So someone wants to load an Alcast build or their buddies in guild give them a build to follow, they have an idea where to go with their class.
- Give advise based on the content. Give players options like "solo PVE", "group dungeon", "PVP", and other modes and help them build a bar of abilities. Possibly give indicators on a rotation as well.
- Setup the advisor to help with armor This doesn't need to track sets necessarily, but give a heads up if they are wearing 4 medium instead of 5, if they have a 1h sword in one hand and no shield, etc. If coupled with a custom build advisors they can handle explaining the meta.

Now a lot of the above ideas could be done with a mod, but it would be interesting to see it done straight into the UI.

Thanks for your time.

Falhael

Just took a look at the advisor system on my template templar and I don't really get the "advised morph" "ill-advised morph" thing.
I mean, for a character that wants to primarily invest into magicka it's clear that Purifying Light is gonna be more useful than Power Of The Light. So the advice concerning the magicka/stamina morph choice is pretty decent (but honestly, I think we all managed just fine without that particular advice, using that thing called common sense)

Other choices that are not "do I need the magicka or stamina morph?" are a little unclear to me (and I would call myself an experienced player). As an example: Why is Radiant Oppression the "advised" morph on the "Templar Initiate" build? Does that mean Radiant Glory is outright bad? Do the devs think the morph is crap? If so, why does it even exist?
Sure, many players may prefer Oppression, I sometimes do, but I have also used the other morph successfully (e.g. when I started doing vMSA ages ago, and often the heal I got from Radiant Glory while executing the bosses was what kept me alive, especially when you're low on magicka, the other morph doesnt really do anything for you.) New players might perform better with that little bit of extra survivability.

On top of that, even if all advice given by that system was great, I don't think this really helps new players. Starting out, ESO can of course be a little overwhelming (at least it was for me, when i started playing beta back in the day) but making your own decisions, reading skill descriptions, then deciding on your own, maybe getting some help and advice from veteran players will imo be more beneficial for new players. It's always better to try things, switch up things and learn from your mistakes than to just copy some random advice. And even if I wanted to copy someone's builds, it probably wouldn't be one ZOS suggested.

RaddlemanNumber7

Did you try any of the advanced builds? If so, what did you think of them?

I started a new NB character. I selected the Deathweaver advanced build in skills adviser at the very start, and have followed it's advise regarding skill point allocation.

At no point has Skills Adviser suggested I buy Veiled Strike. Consequently, the Shadow skill line has so far had zero xp allocated to it.

I have now reached level 4. Skills Adviser is suggesting I buy Refreshing Shadows. This doesn't unlock till Rank 8 in the Shadow skill line.

I think it would be best if Skills Adviser suggested the purchase of Veiled Strike before this point is reached in a NB Deathweaver's career.

I guess I'll have to use my own knowledge of the game here, ignore skills advisor, and buy Veiled Strike with my next skill point.

Iselin

I know you're just starting with this and having advisors and templates even as they are is a great step for helping new players. But you need to add weapon skills and passive recommendations and more importantly, armor passive recommendations since resource management is so dependent on the cost reductions and regen increases you get from them especially for the no-CP new players.

I realize this adds compexity but the intended target for the basic advisor templates needs to at least be pointed in the appropriate weapon and armor direction.

feyii

On a first glance (looked at a sorc first) the skills advisor looks rather solid to me, with good suggestions. It is a bit confusing that the beginner build is always selected first, even on exisiting, max level characters and it is not too obvious that there are more builds to choose from. This is something that could be improved.

Also, I do think it would be helpful if the advisor didn't only say a certain morph is ill-advised for the selected build but also explain why. E.g. I have the Empowered Ward on my magicka sorcerer, who is a DD. If I select the Elemental Arcanist it tells me I should respec to the Hardened Ward morph. If I select the healer build, however, it is fine with my choice. Personally I simply prefer to have more recovery over an even stronger shield, but for players learning the game it would be more helpful if the tooltip stated that a high recovery value is especially important for healers, while damage dealers, who are more in the heat of a fight and have less healing skills, have better survival chances with a stronger shield.
This would help them learn and create builds of their own in the future without the advisor.

And it might be a nice idea to include champion points in the advisor or just mention in the skill tooltips which champions points a skill benefits from.

lolo_01b16_ESO

I took a look at the templar setups. In general I noticed, that only very few passives are advised. Additionally for skills where both morphs are reasonable (and therefore none is advised by the system) maybe add a hint, that this skill should still be morphed and the player shouldn't stay with the unmorphed version.

Templar Tank

In general ok and can certainly be used to tank. However:
- Piercing Javelin as one of the first skills. Why should the tank use that skill? You usually want to have enemies pulled towards you, not push them away
- Focussed Charge: Can be useful in selected fights (e.g. vHoF 4th boss) but in general you want a stationary tank, not one that jumps around the room.
- No reliable selfheal.
- No aoe cc. I know templers don't have many options for this, but either caltrops or ritual of retribution would be reasonable to have at least a snare to prevent adds from running away.
- No group support (warhorn, power of the light, ...)

Templar Healer

An experienced player will manage healing with that, but in my opinion some core skills are missing:
- No healing springs. This is probably the most used healing skill in the entire game. Why would you not slot it on a dedicated healer?
- No combat prayer. Another bread and butter skill of most healers. One of the strongest non unltimate buff skills in the game.
- Healing Ritual is adviced. A big heal, that has a cast time. Why would you use that? If someone gets a sudden big hit, breath of life is better, if you know that the entire group will take high damage soon, it's generally better to stack healing springs.
- Why Restoring Aura and Force Siphon? I'm not really happy about those skills. You could argue about slotting either siphon spirit or aura to get minor magickasteal without a destro staff, using force siphon just for that tiny heal seems a waste of a slot. And even if you want the heal, blood altar would usually be the better choice.

Stamina Templar

Looks very good. I'd personally just change binding javelin for either vigor if you want a defensive skill or another fighters guild skill for the weapon damage buff.

Magicka Templar

Generally looks good. Just some small additions:
- There are 11 skills advised. You probably should remove either rushed ceremony or harness magicka.
- Empowering sweep is more of a defensive ultimate. Shooting Star would usually be the better choice for damage.

Templar questing setup

Looks good. Since it's a clear magicka setup, you could add elemental blockade, elemental rage or shooting star, but it's already a good enough setup to allow new players to kill enemies and stay alive in solo play.

Tempar Skills that are never advised to use (and maybe need a buff)

- solar flare
- eclipse (well, thats mainly a pvp skill, so it's understandable)

starkerealm

I was not able to determine which abilities it wanted slotted on which bars. Granted, I was only able to mess around with my lowbie Warden, so I may be missing something here.

Moloch1514

So this whole system seems to explain the direction of the game under the current combat team. It all makes sense now.

Tasear

How switching the default screen to start up at role section. I see a lot people not seeing you have options or builds to pick from. If these veterans aren't intuitively seeing it then I am afraid for new players.