MAGBLADE pvp theorycrafting

Subversus

Ok so I've been thinking about this all day now:

Transmutation vs Riposte - noCP edition

Transmutation is a buff to your team, riposte is a debuff on the bad guys.

Transmutation has one more regen but one less spell damage bonus in the 2-4p. Take that how you want, imo regen beats spd.

Riposte requires you to go in the line of fire, transmutation allows you to hang back and weave funnels while proccing the bad boy on your whole squad.

If you already have players in your team using heroic slash, shade, fear or w/e else riposte loses a lot of it's value.

So far I really don't see how riposte can win over trans for noCP pvp. You guys got any insight/opinions?

Lexxypwns

Subversus wrote: »

Ok so I've been thinking about this all day now:

Transmutation vs Riposte - noCP edition

Transmutation is a buff to your team, riposte is a debuff on the bad guys.

Transmutation has one more regen but one less spell damage bonus in the 2-4p. Take that how you want, imo regen beats spd.

Riposte requires you to go in the line of fire, transmutation allows you to hang back and weave funnels while proccing the bad boy on your whole squad.

If you already have players in your team using heroic slash, shade, fear or w/e else riposte loses a lot of it's value.

So far I really don't see how riposte can win over trans for noCP pvp. You guys got any insight/opinions?

Crit chances and CHDmodifiers are generally lower in no-CP, Riposte faces less diminishing returns in noCP, and finally Riposte effects proc sets which are by far your biggest threat in this environment.

Waffennacht

Subversus wrote: »

Ok so I've been thinking about this all day now:

Transmutation vs Riposte - noCP edition

Transmutation is a buff to your team, riposte is a debuff on the bad guys.

Transmutation has one more regen but one less spell damage bonus in the 2-4p. Take that how you want, imo regen beats spd.

Riposte requires you to go in the line of fire, transmutation allows you to hang back and weave funnels while proccing the bad boy on your whole squad.

If you already have players in your team using heroic slash, shade, fear or w/e else riposte loses a lot of it's value.

So far I really don't see how riposte can win over trans for noCP pvp. You guys got any insight/opinions?

Well usually you're the only one running such sets unless you're in a pre-made. I could see where Riposte would lose out depending on the make up of your team.

But for the most part it's because you cannot rely on anyone else maiming your opponents.

Edit: why need penetration when all you have to do is find the glass cannons?

Subversus

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Subversus wrote: »

Ok so I've been thinking about this all day now:

Transmutation vs Riposte - noCP edition

Transmutation is a buff to your team, riposte is a debuff on the bad guys.

Transmutation has one more regen but one less spell damage bonus in the 2-4p. Take that how you want, imo regen beats spd.

Riposte requires you to go in the line of fire, transmutation allows you to hang back and weave funnels while proccing the bad boy on your whole squad.

If you already have players in your team using heroic slash, shade, fear or w/e else riposte loses a lot of it's value.

So far I really don't see how riposte can win over trans for noCP pvp. You guys got any insight/opinions?

Crit chances and CHDmodifiers are generally lower in no-CP, Riposte faces less diminishing returns in noCP, and finally Riposte effects proc sets which are by far your biggest threat in this environment.

Riiight, proc sets. I always forget they actually exist in noCP

Waffennacht wrote: »

Subversus wrote: »

Ok so I've been thinking about this all day now:

Transmutation vs Riposte - noCP edition

Transmutation is a buff to your team, riposte is a debuff on the bad guys.

Transmutation has one more regen but one less spell damage bonus in the 2-4p. Take that how you want, imo regen beats spd.

Riposte requires you to go in the line of fire, transmutation allows you to hang back and weave funnels while proccing the bad boy on your whole squad.

If you already have players in your team using heroic slash, shade, fear or w/e else riposte loses a lot of it's value.

So far I really don't see how riposte can win over trans for noCP pvp. You guys got any insight/opinions?

Well usually you're the only one running such sets unless you're in a pre-made. I could see where Riposte would lose out depending on the make up of your team.

But for the most part it's because you cannot rely on anyone else maiming your opponents.

Edit: why need penetration when all you have to do is find the glass cannons?

Good point, "don't rely on anyone but yourself" is a good attitude to have when solo queueing for BGs nowadays hahahaha.

Lexxypwns

@Subversus in a perfect world trans is better because you’ll sit behind your team and never get focused to need Riposte. In practice, as the light armor spec you’re gonna get focused by smart people and there’s always the stamblade or 5 running around trying to gank people.

While Riposte is technically superior in CP, I favor trans there because of the increased crit chances and CHD modifiers, this gives more value to trans and lets the (imo) more attractive trans 4pc become a deciding factor

Trashs1

EvoAZN wrote: »

Trashs1 wrote: »

guys, i play verry successful my mageblade as a destro bomb in my cryo guild group.

where i struggle is bgs

i tried now several specs, all with golden weapons:

2h/restro caluurions spinners 1 domi (was my best results FM is too good, but it feels kinda same as my stamblade)

dw/restro caluurions amberplasm 2 skoria (slowed to dead.. unplayable)

destro restro spinners front lich back 2 skoria (okeyish my sorc feels alot stronger... its kinda weak sorc)

what is the probably best build for solo/premade bgs?

i do pretty well on my stamden stamblade mageplar stamplar and magsorc. i feel magnb is the hardest class to learn properly. any advices to how to improove myself? any pro tipps here?^^

/Edit. Since this topic is highly overloaded i create a new one with my questions.

What is your group destro bomb build/setup if you don't mind me asking?

sorry i canot explain our pvp guild intern builds

Adenoma

I play mostly no-CP and I'm going to start testing out 5x lich, 5x mechanical acuity, 2x Skoria. Use tri food, tri glyphs, lots of DOTs to keep Skoria ticking, and then keep your assassin's will proc on hand for that 5 second burst window. All your DOTs will hit pretty hard, crit incap, crit will, profit. Otherwise, just sustain and kite until you get those windows.

With battlegrounds I opt for a totally different role than a DPS. Sort of off-heals/buff machine/sustained DPS with a will proc every once in a while.

CapuchinSeven

I'm kinda struggling to pick (on a destro' magblade) between x5 Necro and x5 Spinners with x5 Shakle (so Shakle and then either Necro or Spinners). I could also go with x4 Spinners or Necro and maybe Troll King (feel it suits Argonian strenghts but maybe Blood Spawn also. VS never seems to work well on a NB for me).

technohic

CapuchinSeven wrote: »

I'm kinda struggling to pick (on a destro' magblade) between x5 Necro and x5 Spinners with x5 Shakle. I could also go with x4 Spinners or Necro and maybe Troll King (feel it suits Argonian strenghts but maybe Blood Spawn also. VS never seems to work well on a NB for me).

I’m in the same spot for spinners vs Necro. Think it comes down to if I feel I’m going to face more shields or resistance.

Heavy armor is in a bad spot now as it never really gave a ton of survivability alone when people complained about it. But we still have the active defenses that really make people tanky, and being able to cut through mist the armor of a medium wearer lets you kind of match what stam classes can do to you.

On the other hand; facing a magicka class using shields causes spinners 5 piece to be irrelevant while the shield is up and that’s where the extra magicka from Necro would still help along with damage on that as well as your shield. I don’t see as many sorcs these days but I see plenty of annulments and healing wards.

I’ve played around with 4 piece which eliminates that debate but not sold on a monster set. I have to get skoria yet. I tried Chokethorn and liked it when I would stack shields and get the heal but a lot of times; it would target a random pug or it would proc when I wasn’t missing much health. Seemed like a decent support for Zerging when you’re not stacked up like a ball group for Earthgore. You lose some offense though. If you’re melee; get Zaan. It will outclass having a 5 piece.

Been testing a bit more and I like full necro > Shackle > Grothdar for me as I dont have domihaus (I really need to get into PvE I guess.) I find that the damage difference is negligable on armored targets, and the extra magicka allows for a bigger shield and is not lost on shielded targets.

CapuchinSeven

technohic wrote: »

I’ve played around with 4 piece which eliminates that debate but not sold on a monster set. I have to get skoria yet.

Monster sets with Destro' Magblade just don't really work for me. TK is okay but I prefer that on my Stamblade in battlegrounds.

Another choice I'd not thought of is Elegant x5 as Necro does nothing for light attack weaves.

MrDenimChicken

CapuchinSeven wrote: »

technohic wrote: »

I’ve played around with 4 piece which eliminates that debate but not sold on a monster set. I have to get skoria yet.

Monster sets with Destro' Magblade just don't really work for me. TK is okay but I prefer that on my Stamblade in battlegrounds.

Another choice I'd not thought of is Elegant x5 as Necro does nothing for light attack weaves.

I thought about that but I doubt an extra 200-400 damage on your light attacks is going to be the difference between winning and losing. Mag NB is all about sustaining yourself long enough to get your merc bow combo down, and having slightly stronger weaving auto attack damage doesn't seem like it would make the difference in winning or losing a fight.

I'd rather have extra magicka or spell dmg to make my bow/harvest combo do more damage when the time comes for the burst

Subversus

Adenoma wrote: »

I play mostly no-CP and I'm going to start testing out 5x lich, 5x mechanical acuity, 2x Skoria. Use tri food, tri glyphs, lots of DOTs to keep Skoria ticking, and then keep your assassin's will proc on hand for that 5 second burst window. All your DOTs will hit pretty hard, crit incap, crit will, profit. Otherwise, just sustain and kite until you get those windows.

With battlegrounds I opt for a totally different role than a DPS. Sort of off-heals/buff machine/sustained DPS with a will proc every once in a while.

Sounds great! Though with lich, acuity and skoria (both having a combined amount of 2 mag bonuses...), and full tristat on everything I wonder if you'll hit over 30k mag? For them shields to be viable, that is.

I've been playing around with riposte/lich/skoria for the past two days. I gotta say it's crazy fun hahahaha.

Jeezye

Hey guys, jumping into the discussion as well! As far as I can tell, you guys are all running a destro resto setup, which is the obvious choice and best playstyle for magblade atm. However, I always try not to run with the current meta and always loved playing my saptank style throughout years.

For me, the best setup was running two moster pieces (many good choices), and s/b + resto with 2 5 pieces on s/b bar (Theres also tons of decent sets that can be used here). However, since the leeching strikes and block nerfes, I struggle to put together a build that provides enough tankability while maintaining enough damage to pressure people. I dont want to go too much in detail, maybe I'll create a new thread on saptanking.

Do you guys have any insights to share for the current patch situation? I saw a nice build in the forums with trainee, domi and shackle which has super high stats, but I think the main problem saptanks have is the lack of nightblade mechanics to back up this playstlye (class native defensive mechanics have been nerfed/ changed too much for that).

Any ideas?

Adenoma

@Subversus, I haven't actually plugged in things to see if I'll need tri stats with tri stat food. I like that the build is very sustain-oriented and gets around having lower max stats and constant pressure for the huge burst windows where you're effectively 1.6x your normal damage.

Subversus

Adenoma wrote: »

@Subversus, I haven't actually plugged in things to see if I'll need tri stats with tri stat food. I like that the build is very sustain-oriented and gets around having lower max stats and constant pressure for the huge burst windows where you're effectively 1.6x your normal damage.

Oh I see. I'll go and create it in the build editor and see how it looks. By the looks of it a proc oriented ranged magblade might be crazy strong for a dps setup (assuming we're talking BGs).

EDIT:


This is what riposte/lich/skoria looks like with regen mundus, 3 regen glyphs, tristat and full mag enchants on armor. Your setup, with acuity instead of riposte would have a tad less regen and HP and like 1k more mag/stam. Looks nice!

Adenoma

And I'm assuming that is without lich proc.

This is more for open world no-CP. BGs I'm trying to get together a focused group that plays utility sets to buff the team and is more tank-focused with damage buffs coming from SPC, powerful assault, major & minor defile pressure, etc.

Subversus

Adenoma wrote: »

And I'm assuming that is without lich proc.

This is more for open world no-CP. BGs I'm trying to get together a focused group that plays utility sets to buff the team and is more tank-focused with damage buffs coming from SPC, powerful assault, major & minor defile pressure, etc.

Oh yeah, no lich proc.

In solo open world I've been having tons of fun with shackle/amber/domi. The stam is crazy, I can basically roll dodge any time I want. Damage is there too.

technohic

Yay patch notes.

Nightblade
Assassination
Grim Focus: This ability and its morphs will now generate stacks towards the Assassin’s Will and Scourge procs when you begin the Light or Heavy Attack against the enemy target, rather than when the Light or Heavy Attack successfully hits its target.

The way it’s worded; I’d be ecstatic if you still got a stack even when your strife canceled your light attack

CapuchinSeven

Subversus wrote: »

In solo open world I've been having tons of fun with shackle/amber/domi. The stam is crazy, I can basically roll dodge any time I want. Damage is there too.

I'm currently running Shakle/Necro/Domi but I really think I should get some Amber runs done for the reasons you say.
I've run Shakle with Alteration as well (the 5th piece works on dodges rolls as well) and with one stamina regen on my necklace I have great magicka and stamina regen in no-CP but it lacks damage so I feel Amber is the way forward.

That said Shakle/Domi/Necro works very well, although your spell damage looks low (I think in no CP I have 1800 and 1800 regen) with the right build I can have 40k magicka (that's a lot in no-CP) and 12k stamina. With Grim Focus 8% damage up and a spell damage potion running (puts my regen at 2100 and spell damage over 2000, I see so many Magblades not running the potion constantly in fights, PVP spell damage potions give regen and spell power for 40 secs which lasts a full potion cooldown) you hit like a truck and get your sustain from the large magic pool and boosts from the potion (plus Argonian master race passives).

CapuchinSeven

technohic wrote: »

Yay patch notes.

Nightblade
Assassination
Grim Focus: This ability and its morphs will now generate stacks towards the Assassin’s Will and Scourge procs when you begin the Light or Heavy Attack against the enemy target, rather than when the Light or Heavy Attack successfully hits its target.

The way it’s worded; I’d be ecstatic if you still got a stack even when your strife canceled your light attack

Is this live now? That's awesome.

Subversus

CapuchinSeven wrote: »

Subversus wrote: »

In solo open world I've been having tons of fun with shackle/amber/domi. The stam is crazy, I can basically roll dodge any time I want. Damage is there too.

I'm currently running Shakle/Necro/Domi but I really think I should get some Amber runs done for the reasons you say.
I've run Shakle with Alteration as well (the 5th piece works on dodges rolls as well) and with one stamina regen on my necklace I have great magicka and stamina regen in no-CP but it lacks damage so I feel Amber is the way forward.

That said Shakle/Domi/Necro works very well, although your spell damage looks low (I think in no CP I have 1800 and 1800 regen) with the right build I can have 40k magicka (that's a lot in no-CP) and 12k stamina. With Grim Focus 8% damage up and a spell damage potion running (puts my regen at 2100 and spell damage over 2000, I see so many Magblades not running the potion constantly in fights, PVP spell damage potions give regen and spell power for 40 secs which lasts a full potion cooldown) you hit like a truck and get your sustain from the large magic pool and boosts from the potion (plus Argonian master race passives).

Yeah I've ran shackle/necro/domi prior to this and I have to say, the extra shield size from necro is irrelevant when compared to the insane stamina sustain you get from amberplasm. You also get to spec a bit more into damage thanks to the very sexy mag regen you get.

I'm grinding out some gold mats right now and I'll replace the shackle destro on my mainhand with a shackle 2h. I feel like it's gonna be a crazy setup, I get an 11k tooltip on concealed weapon on the build editor with that exact build, not to mention 1.1k stam regen, 2 well fitted and 14k stam which are literally insane.

Knootewoot

Are there any other melee magblades around? Which sets you use?

Carelxss

Is innate axiom better than war maiden and spinners now?

EdTerra

Carelxss wrote: »

Is innate axiom better than war maiden and spinners now?

axiom is class abilities
maiden is all magic damage abilities

all mageblade abilities are magic damages, so the 5 pc bonus is exactly the same (I don't know many other magic damage abilities than class abilities, maybe soul assault or vampire control but I don't think u'r using it)
also maiden give you 1 more spell damage bonus than axiom, better go maiden than axiom, or maybe you prefer 1k stam than 129 spell damage

IMO spinner will not help in this patch, way too many sorcerer shieldstacking with riposte nowadays (at least on EU), better use something with true damage and slot a major breach skill

HEBREWHAMMERRR

Zaan seems like a fun set, especially for ganking, I don’t see it outperforming the burst of skoria though. 5 sec CD and a large AoE burst just seems too valuable. Plus I run around 4 DoTs so the proc is pretty consistent and timed with a bow is so valuable. Can’t wait for patch finally..I missed NoNCP BGs so much

Subversus

HEBREWHAMMERRR wrote: »

Zaan seems like a fun set, especially for ganking, I don’t see it outperforming the burst of skoria though. 5 sec CD and a large AoE burst just seems too valuable. Plus I run around 4 DoTs so the proc is pretty consistent and timed with a bow is so valuable. Can’t wait for patch finally..I missed NoNCP BGs so much

Zaan is crazy in duels if you can keep the uptime though (gap closer, roots or whatever). In a duel fight, the highest dmg % comes from zaan, according to FTC. Skoria burst might still be better, but for overall pressure (at least numbers-wise) zaan trumps skoria.

Exodium

HEBREWHAMMERRR wrote: »

Zaan seems like a fun set, especially for ganking, I don’t see it outperforming the burst of skoria though. 5 sec CD and a large AoE burst just seems too valuable. Plus I run around 4 DoTs so the proc is pretty consistent and timed with a bow is so valuable. Can’t wait for patch finally..I missed NoNCP BGs so much

100% agree. No way will I replace zaan with valkyn considering I have overwhelming, cripple and entropy running at the same time. Also, valkyns telegraph is so awesome for ganking cause I can time my incap with it and then finish them off with bow.

StayAlfresco

Knootewoot wrote: »

Are there any other melee magblades around? Which sets you use?

I'm currently running a 2h/Resto set up. Shackle, Bloodthorn, Domi.

Vermintide

I don't like proc sets in general, but Zaan has helped me brute force my way through the kind of DK/Templar builds that normally give me trouble. I'm only running it with Riposte and a 4 piece of Magnus' Gift, which I'm sure is far from optimal, but yeah, it is strong. I never liked Valkyn at all though, so maybe it's just my style.

Anyone try Caluurion's yet anyway?

HEBREWHAMMERRR

Vermintide wrote: »

I don't like proc sets in general, but Zaan has helped me brute force my way through the kind of DK/Templar builds that normally give me trouble. I'm only running it with Riposte and a 4 piece of Magnus' Gift, which I'm sure is far from optimal, but yeah, it is strong. I never liked Valkyn at all though, so maybe it's just my style.

Anyone try Caluurion's yet anyway?

Depends on style of play I suppose but you definitely need atleast 2-3 dots and make sure they’re staying up to benefit from the proc uptime. Coupled with a well timed cc and a bow it can be pretty brutal, especially in non cp BGs.

I def want to give zaan a try and will especially be making a trolly gank build with it as well haha.