MAGBLADE pvp theorycrafting

  • Subversus
    Subversus
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    Exodium wrote: »
    Hey guys just got a master inferno! Really want to make a magblade build around it. I'm thinking

    5 necro
    3 ancient grace
    2 valkyn and master inferno.

    How would this sound? Or do you guys have a better set up in mind. Let me know!

    I used to play with that setup back in homestead, but with infernal instead of Valkyn. I also had magelight and meteor on frontbar with shield there too, it was a crazy build. I don't think you could sustain your stam in it atm though, since suphoning attacks got wrecked.

    You should try shackle and willpower instead of necro/ancient. It's probably one of the strongest shieldstack nightblade builds out there atm.
  • Adenoma
    Adenoma
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    I'm still adoring my 2h/resto magNB. Forward momentum, major expedition, and concealed weapon are great together.
    Adenoma-Badenoma-Sadenoma
  • NoFlash
    NoFlash
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    Low key, someone give me their 2h resto build so I can poop on fools.
    Daggerfall Covenant

    The Ninja Squirrels
  • Datthaw
    Datthaw
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    EvoAZN wrote: »
    Low key, someone give me their 2h resto build so I can poop on fools.

    There are some builds already in here, but it's practice that makes you good. Not just gonna pick it up and be amazing.
  • Adenoma
    Adenoma
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    @Datthaw is totally right. It plays differently from any other magNB build I've done. It's super bursty, but has very little sustained pressure beyond crippling grasp. Basically, just build to emphasize that burst, then factor some sustain in.
    Adenoma-Badenoma-Sadenoma
  • Datthaw
    Datthaw
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    @Adenoma have you gotten zaan yet? I switch to 5 Julianos 5 wizard 2 zaan in light armor. And man.... sometimes it doesn't want to proc, but when it does it hits hard. See that thing proc and cc with what ever you got, almost always gets a kill, especially if you can cc a couple seconds into proc when the damage is buffed
  • Adenoma
    Adenoma
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    I probably won't end up running Zaan. I'm having a lot of success with 5x Spinners, 5x Shackle, 1x Domihaus, vMA resto. I use the apprentice mundus, witchmother's, and spell power/crit potions. With mark target I have pretty ridiculous penetration - to the point that if you're light armor you're almost not wearing armor. More or less you scoot around, build a will proc and incap, then burst away. A few days ago I ran into a solid magplar I know and our fight was some light attacks, buffing, and then I went cloak into 11k incap with a 19k will proc. I've repeated this a few times on other classes. I know people rag on spinners, but it's enormous damage and even against shield stacking builds there is always a window where people drop shield for a moment. A lot of my kills are when people think that they have an offensive window, drop their guard, and then take a massive incap + will proc where if they live the defile and increased damage taken via incap are too much to overcome unless they pretty much block cast purge into breath of life.

    Sustain on that build is a weird thing because you're really not spamming skills outside of defense and your burst combo. You just kite until you see a window.

    Fair warning that I've basically just taken the build's sets/concept from @Lexxypwns . They're a wizard.
    Adenoma-Badenoma-Sadenoma
  • technohic
    technohic
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    Adenoma wrote: »
    I probably won't end up running Zaan. I'm having a lot of success with 5x Spinners, 5x Shackle, 1x Domihaus, vMA resto. I use the apprentice mundus, witchmother's, and spell power/crit potions. With mark target I have pretty ridiculous penetration - to the point that if you're light armor you're almost not wearing armor. More or less you scoot around, build a will proc and incap, then burst away. A few days ago I ran into a solid magplar I know and our fight was some light attacks, buffing, and then I went cloak into 11k incap with a 19k will proc. I've repeated this a few times on other classes. I know people rag on spinners, but it's enormous damage and even against shield stacking builds there is always a window where people drop shield for a moment. A lot of my kills are when people think that they have an offensive window, drop their guard, and then take a massive incap + will proc where if they live the defile and increased damage taken via incap are too much to overcome unless they pretty much block cast purge into breath of life.

    Sustain on that build is a weird thing because you're really not spamming skills outside of defense and your burst combo. You just kite until you see a window.

    Fair warning that I've basically just taken the build's sets/concept from @Lexxypwns . They're a wizard.

    I did the same thing but, I've been running war maiden in stead of spinners just to deal with shielded opponents. But no VMA. Im running 2h and resto
  • Adenoma
    Adenoma
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    The vma adds nice sustain and easy heals while kiting. I like it.
    Adenoma-Badenoma-Sadenoma
  • technohic
    technohic
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    Anyone ever try chokethorn while spamming funnel health? Just equipped it. Also procs with forward momentum
    Edited by technohic on February 18, 2018 7:40PM
  • NoFlash
    NoFlash
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    Just read the entire thread again. My only question is can you empower the bow proc with mages light? I think I'm going to try 2h and resto since I wanna play hit and run type of style. The burst potential is very appealing! I'll have to test light vs heavy and see what works for me.

    Edited by NoFlash on February 19, 2018 9:55AM
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  • HEBREWHAMMERRR
    HEBREWHAMMERRR
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    I’ve only really messed with frost staff on my old 5spinner (frost staff), 5 clever, 2 tremorscale with heavy taunts procing tremor, ever since they nerfed in to ground I haven’t messed with it. I found with cripple and will procs I wasn’t seeing a ton of benefit into the frost bonuses. I did mess around with the monster set where you put up a shield and do aoe damage (can’t remember the name?) or could work with infernal as well. I haven’t ran a shield in a long time aside from ward but with ward, shield + heavy frost shield you’d have a ton of opportunity to proc this. (Might try again as I’ve been playing a tad more to get ready for new patch, I’ll update on anything I try out).
    Edited by HEBREWHAMMERRR on February 19, 2018 1:42PM
  • Aztlan
    Aztlan
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    Khajiit recently converted from stamblade to magblade (not this one's doing -- evil dro-m'Athra curse), and just happens to have a nirnhoned Master's Inferno Staff. Do any experienced magblades use this or better to chop for firewood?

    This one was thinking that heavy attack, fear, Destructive Clench, Assassin's Will could be a good combo.
    Edited by Aztlan on February 19, 2018 2:26PM
  • Maulkin
    Maulkin
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    Exodium wrote: »
    Hey guys just got a master inferno! Really want to make a magblade build around it. I'm thinking

    5 necro
    3 ancient grace
    2 valkyn and master inferno.

    How would this sound? Or do you guys have a better set up in mind. Let me know!

    Personally I'd go for another 5p instead of Skoria. But if you're gonna go with a 3p jewel set, then I certainly prefer willpower to ancient grace for any build except pet sorc.

    With Necro proc'ed you should be sitting at just under 40k max magicka base (before CP, class, race, Mages Guild buffs). So that 4% from ancient grace is about 1.6k at best to your final number.

    The extra 189 spell damage (base) from Willpower is mathematically better and the 2p bonus is better too.
    Edited by Maulkin on February 19, 2018 3:25PM
    EU | PC | AD
  • Subversus
    Subversus
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    Aztlan wrote: »
    Khajiit recently converted from stamblade to magblade (not this one's doing -- evil dro-m'Athra curse), and just happens to have a nirnhoned Master's Inferno Staff. Do any experienced magblades use this or better to chop for firewood?

    This one was thinking that heavy attack, fear, Destructive Clench, Assassin's Will could be a good combo.

    First of all, reach/clench is a cc in itself so using a fear right before the clench is extremely redundant. Never run two ccs (ults don't count) on magblade, you're already struggling with bar space.

    Now master's inferno is a crazy good staff this patch. A good starter magblade build I can recommend is 2 skoria, 5 shackle, 3 willpower and master inferno/vMA resto(or regular resto).

    I've heard that people run shackle/necro/master inferno/vMA resto as well this patch. You can also run 5 shackle 1 domi 5 riposte backbar and master's inferno front bar (you can also swap riposte for lich if you feel like sustain is an issue).
  • Aztlan
    Aztlan
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    Thank you!
  • Exodium
    Exodium
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    Subversus wrote: »
    Aztlan wrote: »
    Khajiit recently converted from stamblade to magblade (not this one's doing -- evil dro-m'Athra curse), and just happens to have a nirnhoned Master's Inferno Staff. Do any experienced magblades use this or better to chop for firewood?

    This one was thinking that heavy attack, fear, Destructive Clench, Assassin's Will could be a good combo.

    First of all, reach/clench is a cc in itself so using a fear right before the clench is extremely redundant. Never run two ccs (ults don't count) on magblade, you're already struggling with bar space.

    Now master's inferno is a crazy good staff this patch. A good starter magblade build I can recommend is 2 skoria, 5 shackle, 3 willpower and master inferno/vMA resto(or regular resto).

    I've heard that people run shackle/necro/master inferno/vMA resto as well this patch. You can also run 5 shackle 1 domi 5 riposte backbar and master's inferno front bar (you can also swap riposte for lich if you feel like sustain is an issue).

    I'm thinking maybe a 5 lich (backbar) 5 necro 1 domi/kena with master inferno. I think I'd have enough mag recovery to go pure damage glyphs and not need Siphoning either.
  • Subversus
    Subversus
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    Exodium wrote: »
    Subversus wrote: »
    Aztlan wrote: »
    Khajiit recently converted from stamblade to magblade (not this one's doing -- evil dro-m'Athra curse), and just happens to have a nirnhoned Master's Inferno Staff. Do any experienced magblades use this or better to chop for firewood?

    This one was thinking that heavy attack, fear, Destructive Clench, Assassin's Will could be a good combo.

    First of all, reach/clench is a cc in itself so using a fear right before the clench is extremely redundant. Never run two ccs (ults don't count) on magblade, you're already struggling with bar space.

    Now master's inferno is a crazy good staff this patch. A good starter magblade build I can recommend is 2 skoria, 5 shackle, 3 willpower and master inferno/vMA resto(or regular resto).

    I've heard that people run shackle/necro/master inferno/vMA resto as well this patch. You can also run 5 shackle 1 domi 5 riposte backbar and master's inferno front bar (you can also swap riposte for lich if you feel like sustain is an issue).

    I'm thinking maybe a 5 lich (backbar) 5 necro 1 domi/kena with master inferno. I think I'd have enough mag recovery to go pure damage glyphs and not need Siphoning either.

    Sounds great, though stam sustain might be a little iffy. Mag sustain is definitely more than enough with lich, hell I ran 3 dmg glyphs on shackle/riposte/domi and it still felt like oversustaining.

    I've really been meaning to try my sorc build (lich/shackle/domi/master's) on magblade, but it's just so annoying to send gear over so I never get to actually doing it. Until then riposte can do just fine in place of lich hahaha.
  • Exodium
    Exodium
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    Subversus wrote: »
    Exodium wrote: »
    Subversus wrote: »
    Aztlan wrote: »
    Khajiit recently converted from stamblade to magblade (not this one's doing -- evil dro-m'Athra curse), and just happens to have a nirnhoned Master's Inferno Staff. Do any experienced magblades use this or better to chop for firewood?

    This one was thinking that heavy attack, fear, Destructive Clench, Assassin's Will could be a good combo.

    First of all, reach/clench is a cc in itself so using a fear right before the clench is extremely redundant. Never run two ccs (ults don't count) on magblade, you're already struggling with bar space.

    Now master's inferno is a crazy good staff this patch. A good starter magblade build I can recommend is 2 skoria, 5 shackle, 3 willpower and master inferno/vMA resto(or regular resto).

    I've heard that people run shackle/necro/master inferno/vMA resto as well this patch. You can also run 5 shackle 1 domi 5 riposte backbar and master's inferno front bar (you can also swap riposte for lich if you feel like sustain is an issue).

    I'm thinking maybe a 5 lich (backbar) 5 necro 1 domi/kena with master inferno. I think I'd have enough mag recovery to go pure damage glyphs and not need Siphoning either.

    Sounds great, though stam sustain might be a little iffy. Mag sustain is definitely more than enough with lich, hell I ran 3 dmg glyphs on shackle/riposte/domi and it still felt like oversustaining.

    I've really been meaning to try my sorc build (lich/shackle/domi/master's) on magblade, but it's just so annoying to send gear over so I never get to actually doing it. Until then riposte can do just fine in place of lich hahaha.

    I actually run my magblade on an argonian with tri stat pots haha it's so OP for my resources. I don't feel I need the 7% extra mag and elemental damage that high elf give because already with necro/kena/spell damage glyphs your damage will be high enough. I could even go lich shackle like your set up. Haven't thought about that but yeah could work. Or what about a shackle/necro build? That could be insane too..
  • milesrodneymcneely2_ESO
    milesrodneymcneely2_ESO
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    Subversus wrote: »
    Sounds great, though stam sustain might be a little iffy.
    Do you guys have any tips for sustaining Stamina on a MagBlade?
  • StayAlfresco
    StayAlfresco
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    Subversus wrote: »
    Sounds great, though stam sustain might be a little iffy.
    Do you guys have any tips for sustaining Stamina on a MagBlade?

    Argonian is a great start for the potion passive, tri pots help too, tapping block instead of holding it when need be, roll dodging sparingly, if you're a 2h build, heavy attack. Pretty well all the normal stuff for a magic build. You can also build for a higher stamina pool with tri food/tri glyphs.
  • kaithuzar
    kaithuzar
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    Amberplasm, shacklebreaker, tri-stat food, 1 domihaus, prismatic glyphs, siphoning strikes are all solid methods for stamina sustain

    I prefer 1 domi, prismatic glyph, or siphoning strikes
    Edited by kaithuzar on February 20, 2018 4:42AM
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  • Subversus
    Subversus
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    Exodium wrote: »
    Subversus wrote: »
    Exodium wrote: »
    Subversus wrote: »
    Aztlan wrote: »
    Khajiit recently converted from stamblade to magblade (not this one's doing -- evil dro-m'Athra curse), and just happens to have a nirnhoned Master's Inferno Staff. Do any experienced magblades use this or better to chop for firewood?

    This one was thinking that heavy attack, fear, Destructive Clench, Assassin's Will could be a good combo.

    First of all, reach/clench is a cc in itself so using a fear right before the clench is extremely redundant. Never run two ccs (ults don't count) on magblade, you're already struggling with bar space.

    Now master's inferno is a crazy good staff this patch. A good starter magblade build I can recommend is 2 skoria, 5 shackle, 3 willpower and master inferno/vMA resto(or regular resto).

    I've heard that people run shackle/necro/master inferno/vMA resto as well this patch. You can also run 5 shackle 1 domi 5 riposte backbar and master's inferno front bar (you can also swap riposte for lich if you feel like sustain is an issue).

    I'm thinking maybe a 5 lich (backbar) 5 necro 1 domi/kena with master inferno. I think I'd have enough mag recovery to go pure damage glyphs and not need Siphoning either.

    Sounds great, though stam sustain might be a little iffy. Mag sustain is definitely more than enough with lich, hell I ran 3 dmg glyphs on shackle/riposte/domi and it still felt like oversustaining.

    I've really been meaning to try my sorc build (lich/shackle/domi/master's) on magblade, but it's just so annoying to send gear over so I never get to actually doing it. Until then riposte can do just fine in place of lich hahaha.

    I actually run my magblade on an argonian with tri stat pots haha it's so OP for my resources. I don't feel I need the 7% extra mag and elemental damage that high elf give because already with necro/kena/spell damage glyphs your damage will be high enough. I could even go lich shackle like your set up. Haven't thought about that but yeah could work. Or what about a shackle/necro build? That could be insane too..

    One of the top magblades on pc eu plays shackle/necro/master's/vMA resto. It's probably one of the most versatile shieldstack magblade builds you can use. I still think that riposte is better than necro open world though, because riposte scales with the number of enemies, necro doesn't.
    Edited by Subversus on February 20, 2018 9:03AM
  • technohic
    technohic
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    When you guys say "shield stack" as a NB; you're pretty much just talking annulment with healing ward, correct?
  • Datthaw
    Datthaw
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    technohic wrote: »
    When you guys say "shield stack" as a NB; you're pretty much just talking annulment with healing ward, correct?

    Yup, or magharness.
    Edited by Datthaw on February 20, 2018 2:42PM
  • technohic
    technohic
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    Speaking of that. How much do you guys see the shield go up for a full 5 piece Necro compared to the 4 piece? I seem to see about 1200 base points higher shield or so just rough estimate (not able to go pop shades out to confirm right now from work) I suppose with bastion that will inflate it/round up to around 1500? In Cyrodiil thats 750 points.

    Just bad estimations here but I guess what I am getting at is; is the 5th piece necro worth it when you can use that piece for an extra monster set piece or master/VMA weapon?
  • Lexxypwns
    Lexxypwns
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    technohic wrote: »
    Speaking of that. How much do you guys see the shield go up for a full 5 piece Necro compared to the 4 piece? I seem to see about 1200 base points higher shield or so just rough estimate (not able to go pop shades out to confirm right now from work) I suppose with bastion that will inflate it/round up to around 1500? In Cyrodiil thats 750 points.

    Just bad estimations here but I guess what I am getting at is; is the 5th piece necro worth it when you can use that piece for an extra monster set piece or master/VMA weapon?

    Why not both?

    Yes, Necro 5pc adds a marginal amount to your shield size, but it also adds a decentamount if damage as well.
    You could drop the Necro 5pc for something that would add more defense(wizards, trans) or more offense(spinners, BSW) but there isn’t a set that gives the balance of both.

    I personally hate 5 Necro on mageblade, outside of duels, while others swear by it, since shade requires a target so you don’t get the bonus sustain that a larger magika pool would usually give. I think 5 shackle 4 Necro 1 Domi vma+masters is superior to 5 Necro 5 shackle + staves. It’s not better than 3 willpower 1 domi 1 Max mag/spell damage with the staves though.
    Edited by Lexxypwns on February 20, 2018 5:30PM
  • Wrubius_Coronaria
    Wrubius_Coronaria
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    Magicka nightblade with dual wield (not zerg bomber builds) is still possible and viable?
  • Lexxypwns
    Lexxypwns
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    Caitsith wrote: »
    Magicka nightblade with dual wield (not zerg bomber builds) is still possible and viable?

    Yes. It’s a more bursty playstyle than 2h even. However, you’ll probably need a gap closer and you’ll either have to be a ninja with Shadow Image or maybe slot mist form to deal with snares. It’s much, much harder than 2h but it’s also superior at literally everything but kiting.

    I believe @NightbladeMechanics is still running a DW/resto setup
    Edited by Lexxypwns on February 20, 2018 9:25PM
  • Datthaw
    Datthaw
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    So @Adenoma @Lexxypwns

    I had been kinda torn on what sets to run with my 2h build. Had been running 5 juli 5 riposte 2 zaan because why not, give me some tank to stand and proc zaan. I had a full set of shackle and spinners (no vma resto :( ) so I figure what the hell and I go craft myself a shackle 2h. Been running it the last couple nights and I'm really impressed with it. I obviously don't have the defense like my other setup, have to be alot more elusive which is perfect with image working. The burst potential is awesome, I'm definitely having my opinion changed on post nerf spinners.
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