MAGBLADE pvp theorycrafting

Subversus

Dreth wrote: »

Where are you getting sustain from?

Drain + syphoning attacks + argonian. Not to mention that resto heavies in heavy armor give like 10k mag back. Just gotta be mindful not to spam expensive abilities and try to be on the offensive more than the defensive.

Exodium

Maulkin wrote: »

Trashs1 wrote: »

Knootewoot wrote: »

Since friday i run 5 light, 1 heavy (chest) and 1 medium pants. I was always 7 Light. But survivability went up.

Also i added extra health by wearing 1 piece of skoria and switched Julianos 5 piece with Krangnerac 5 pience. Kragnerac gives +health, + magicka, mag regeneration and extra damage (and faster rezzing). My other set it still warmaiden.

I now have 25k healh.

Yesterday some stamblade using shieldbreaker sniped me, but didn't kill me instant. So i popped a ward and heard that annoying sound of shieldbreaker. I was so happy i had a bit more health then before and swallow soul saved my ass. Healing me and killing the stamblade.

Although maybe not the best sets, i do really love Kragnerac because it's also craftable. I do wish i had my lich set complete so i could put that on my backbar and a damage set on my front bar so i could wear a full monsterset.

i needed 78 runs of coh1 for my lich restro...

If it's any consolation, I've been hunting the Rattlecage Inferno staff and I'm around 110 runs deep so far with no luck. I currently have:
- 2 Restos
- 2 Lightning staves
- 1 Ice staff
- 2 Greatswords
- 3 swords
- 2 Daggers
...and I've decon'ed quite a few shields and bows too. That's excluding all the oblivion and worm cult trash I've picked during those runs and all the jewellery.

In other words, you got off lightly.

I've got a rattlecage inferno that I always thought might be useful for something but never exactly realised what haha. How would you incorporate it in a build though? So many sources of major sorcerer

Subversus

Exodium wrote: »

Maulkin wrote: »

Trashs1 wrote: »

Knootewoot wrote: »

Since friday i run 5 light, 1 heavy (chest) and 1 medium pants. I was always 7 Light. But survivability went up.

Also i added extra health by wearing 1 piece of skoria and switched Julianos 5 piece with Krangnerac 5 pience. Kragnerac gives +health, + magicka, mag regeneration and extra damage (and faster rezzing). My other set it still warmaiden.

I now have 25k healh.

Yesterday some stamblade using shieldbreaker sniped me, but didn't kill me instant. So i popped a ward and heard that annoying sound of shieldbreaker. I was so happy i had a bit more health then before and swallow soul saved my ass. Healing me and killing the stamblade.

Although maybe not the best sets, i do really love Kragnerac because it's also craftable. I do wish i had my lich set complete so i could put that on my backbar and a damage set on my front bar so i could wear a full monsterset.

i needed 78 runs of coh1 for my lich restro...

If it's any consolation, I've been hunting the Rattlecage Inferno staff and I'm around 110 runs deep so far with no luck. I currently have:
- 2 Restos
- 2 Lightning staves
- 1 Ice staff
- 2 Greatswords
- 3 swords
- 2 Daggers
...and I've decon'ed quite a few shields and bows too. That's excluding all the oblivion and worm cult trash I've picked during those runs and all the jewellery.

In other words, you got off lightly.

I've got a rattlecage inferno that I always thought might be useful for something but never exactly realised what haha. How would you incorporate it in a build though? So many sources of major sorcerer

You don't. I can safely say that rattlecage is one of the worst sets you could run on a magblade period. (On any class for that matter but I won't get into that as I don't have half the experience on those and don't wanna talk ***)

Maulkin

Exodium wrote: »

Maulkin wrote: »

Trashs1 wrote: »

Knootewoot wrote: »

Since friday i run 5 light, 1 heavy (chest) and 1 medium pants. I was always 7 Light. But survivability went up.

Also i added extra health by wearing 1 piece of skoria and switched Julianos 5 piece with Krangnerac 5 pience. Kragnerac gives +health, + magicka, mag regeneration and extra damage (and faster rezzing). My other set it still warmaiden.

I now have 25k healh.

Yesterday some stamblade using shieldbreaker sniped me, but didn't kill me instant. So i popped a ward and heard that annoying sound of shieldbreaker. I was so happy i had a bit more health then before and swallow soul saved my ass. Healing me and killing the stamblade.

Although maybe not the best sets, i do really love Kragnerac because it's also craftable. I do wish i had my lich set complete so i could put that on my backbar and a damage set on my front bar so i could wear a full monsterset.

i needed 78 runs of coh1 for my lich restro...

If it's any consolation, I've been hunting the Rattlecage Inferno staff and I'm around 110 runs deep so far with no luck. I currently have:
- 2 Restos
- 2 Lightning staves
- 1 Ice staff
- 2 Greatswords
- 3 swords
- 2 Daggers
...and I've decon'ed quite a few shields and bows too. That's excluding all the oblivion and worm cult trash I've picked during those runs and all the jewellery.

In other words, you got off lightly.

I've got a rattlecage inferno that I always thought might be useful for something but never exactly realised what haha. How would you incorporate it in a build though? So many sources of major sorcerer

You have precisely 3 other possible sources of Major Sorcery: pots, entropy, sap essence.

Sap is out since I play pretty much only BGs and prefer to go for single target build. Pots are out cause I need tri-pots more often than not for either stamina, or for an emergency heal or both. That leaves entropy, that most people slot. Which I could slot too, but using Rattlecage means I can slot Magelight instead and thus get more magicka and more damage-heals through higher crit chance.

The build I have planned is Necro, Rattle, Domi, 6-1 light. And the 5% magicka from Magelight works really well for an Altmer MageBlade build with Necro. In fact you end up with more Max Mag, Spell Damage and Crit than a Shackle, Necro, Domi set up that uses Entropy. Although you do sacrifice something in Max Regen, that's I suppose is the trade off.

Though another possible build is Rattle & Lich on front/back staves (since all your damage is on the front bar) and then you can slot a 2p monster set like skoria which works pretty well if you use double dot poisons. You have lower magicka on that build but higher spell damage, because you can lean on Lich for sustain and put more dmg on the enchants.

kaithuzar

Julianos is the best choice for heavy destro/resto
Innate axiom is best for heavy 2h/resto
War maiden is best for light 2h/resto

For light destro/resto I'm really not sure because it depends upon what & how many destro abilities you slot, probably a toss up between necro, juli, or some combo of 3 piece willpower with monster/masters/asylum

If you're not running wizards riposte back bar, the only real choice in my opinion is either lich back bar (if you can utilize it properly, which I can't) or both bar impregnable

Between witch mothers brew, cp, jewelry glyphs, mundus stone, racial passives, light/heavy attacks, siphoning, prismatic enchants;
there should be no reason for needing to waste a 5 piece on a sustain set.

IMO you should always go 1 offensive set, 1 defensive set, unless you are just ganking or bombing, then 2 offensive sets.
I know I mentioned lich as a back bar & it's not defensive but maybe you can throw extra damage & resources if you don't have to care about sustain

***edited as I had accidentally mistyped a wrong set

kaithuzar

Skoria is just OP if you can slot the dots or ground effect dots (wall of elements or path) needed to proc it; I think it can proc off of those.
I haven't seen too many people use consuming trap but imagine that could as well & so should inevitable detonation which will be really popular next patch.

Of course if you are running a 2h build 1 domi is awesome for it, especially with 2 prismatic enchants. Grothdar is also great for 2h b/c getting into melee range & don't dismiss 1pirate+1chudan either if you want extra tankiness if wearing light armor.
I really want to play using the defile monster set next patch but it was so slow on pts not sure how good it will be.

All of these are good pvp choices & if using 1 domi you can always pair with either 1 kena or a regen set like chokethorn or shadowrend

Adenoma

So are people using cloak these days? My bar space is filled and I feel like there are about a million things that pull me out.

Running front bar of elemental drain, fear, swallow soul, crippling grasp, merciless, incap. Back bar healing ward, restoring path, mist form, siphoning (stam version) and degeneration with lights champion.

I'm running just in no-CP because I don't like my fights lasting a lifetime.

Dreth

I finally dropped cloak and havent missed it. Its garbage. Too expensive and no return. Unless they fix it I wont be slotting it anymore.

Pijng

Dreth wrote: »

I finally dropped cloak and havent missed it. Its garbage. Too expensive and no return. Unless they fix it I wont be slotting it anymore.

Wut? Too expensive for magblade? How's that?

Dreth

Its like 3400 magicka if I'm not mistaken. One of the most expensive skills on my bar. I run a fairly tight recovery build but for people with 2k regen its not a big deal. If it did anything useful it would be worth it but lag and everything breaks it so I just dont bother anymore.

Datthaw

Adenoma wrote: »

So are people using cloak these days? My bar space is filled and I feel like there are about a million things that pull me out.

Running front bar of elemental drain, fear, swallow soul, crippling grasp, merciless, incap. Back bar healing ward, restoring path, mist form, siphoning (stam version) and degeneration with lights champion.

I'm running just in no-CP because I don't like my fights lasting a lifetime.

I'm still running cloak but only in cyro. Duels it's off my bar everytime. Alot of things do break it but if you're solo it can still be a life saver. Run into one of the classic vivec zergs that start chasing me and I mistform out of sight and cloak away. Like a poor man's shade lol.... no actually not lol, rip shade, you are missed.

Edit: as far as group play goes it still can be useful. You're running in a smaller group that gets rolled it's nice to have someone who can just cloak out for a fc or some rez's.

Subversus

Dreth wrote: »

Its like 3400 magicka if I'm not mistaken. One of the most expensive skills on my bar. I run a fairly tight recovery build but for people with 2k regen its not a big deal. If it did anything useful it would be worth it but lag and everything breaks it so I just dont bother anymore.

I was about to mention that I've never had problems with ability costs on mageblade but then you mentioned how you run a low recovery build yeah cloak is pretty nasty since it works like 50% of the time.

Adenoma

@Datthaw , I agree cloak is pointless in duels. I've just found it breaks so often. I'm running in no-CP with pretty tight sustain so far (1600 magicka recov) and I haven't been able to justify it.

Subversus

Adenoma wrote: »

@Datthaw , I agree cloak is pointless in duels. I've just found it breaks so often. I'm running in no-CP with pretty tight sustain so far (1600 magicka recov) and I haven't been able to justify it.

Actually it's the exact opposite imo. Cloak is extremely cheesy in duels on a magblade since you can jus reset the fight if you feel like your stam is in trouble or you're debuffed to hell and you need a few seconds. Cloaks a problem in open world where you don't know what or who your opponents are and where everything breaks it cause you don't know what's hitting you.

Datthaw

Subversus wrote: »

Adenoma wrote: »

@Datthaw , I agree cloak is pointless in duels. I've just found it breaks so often. I'm running in no-CP with pretty tight sustain so far (1600 magicka recov) and I haven't been able to justify it.

Actually it's the exact opposite imo. Cloak is extremely cheesy in duels on a magblade since you can jus reset the fight if you feel like your stam is in trouble or you're debuffed to hell and you need a few seconds. Cloaks a problem in open world where you don't know what or who your opponents are and where everything breaks it cause you don't know what's hitting you.

I just don't use it in duels because I don't enjoy that play style. Idk I guess because it is so cheesy. Plus there are so many juicy skills, and shade will work out of cyro.

kaithuzar

I still use it (cloak) in duels & open world but next patch I will probably not use it in duels & still use it in open world.

Kode

Too cheesy? Broken? We are talking about PvP here, maybe cheesy for a duel but open world, all bets are off. If you know how to use cloak it is very strong, in some circumstances.

technohic

Not sure I'd bother with magblade if it weren't for cloak. High mobility stealth is what makes it fun for me. As far as damage goes; I actually like magsorc better due to the delayed burst of curse matching up with a timed frag, and the passive execute possibility of going off

Subversus

Kode wrote: »

Too cheesy? Broken? We are talking about PvP here, maybe cheesy for a duel but open world, all bets are off. If you know how to use cloak it is very strong, in some circumstances.

Yeah I was talking about duels. Wings, for example, are ultimate cheese in duels while they're considered weak or broken in open world. It's really the nature of the situations, they're inherently different. But yeah, open world all bets are off!

exeeter702

Maulkin wrote: »

Exodium wrote: »

Maulkin wrote: »

Trashs1 wrote: »

Knootewoot wrote: »

Since friday i run 5 light, 1 heavy (chest) and 1 medium pants. I was always 7 Light. But survivability went up.

Also i added extra health by wearing 1 piece of skoria and switched Julianos 5 piece with Krangnerac 5 pience. Kragnerac gives +health, + magicka, mag regeneration and extra damage (and faster rezzing). My other set it still warmaiden.

I now have 25k healh.

Yesterday some stamblade using shieldbreaker sniped me, but didn't kill me instant. So i popped a ward and heard that annoying sound of shieldbreaker. I was so happy i had a bit more health then before and swallow soul saved my ass. Healing me and killing the stamblade.

Although maybe not the best sets, i do really love Kragnerac because it's also craftable. I do wish i had my lich set complete so i could put that on my backbar and a damage set on my front bar so i could wear a full monsterset.

i needed 78 runs of coh1 for my lich restro...

If it's any consolation, I've been hunting the Rattlecage Inferno staff and I'm around 110 runs deep so far with no luck. I currently have:
- 2 Restos
- 2 Lightning staves
- 1 Ice staff
- 2 Greatswords
- 3 swords
- 2 Daggers
...and I've decon'ed quite a few shields and bows too. That's excluding all the oblivion and worm cult trash I've picked during those runs and all the jewellery.

In other words, you got off lightly.

I've got a rattlecage inferno that I always thought might be useful for something but never exactly realised what haha. How would you incorporate it in a build though? So many sources of major sorcerer

You have precisely 3 other possible sources of Major Sorcery: pots, entropy, sap essence.

Sap is out since I play pretty much only BGs and prefer to go for single target build. Pots are out cause I need tri-pots more often than not for either stamina, or for an emergency heal or both. That leaves entropy, that most people slot. Which I could slot too, but using Rattlecage means I can slot Magelight instead and thus get more magicka and more damage-heals through higher crit chance.

The build I have planned is Necro, Rattle, Domi, 6-1 light. And the 5% magicka from Magelight works really well for an Altmer MageBlade build with Necro. In fact you end up with more Max Mag, Spell Damage and Crit than a Shackle, Necro, Domi set up that uses Entropy. Although you do sacrifice something in Max Regen, that's I suppose is the trade off.

Though another possible build is Rattle & Lich on front/back staves (since all your damage is on the front bar) and then you can slot a 2p monster set like skoria which works pretty well if you use double dot poisons. You have lower magicka on that build but higher spell damage, because you can lean on Lich for sustain and put more dmg on the enchants.

Yeah you have the right mindset here, and should disregard most that try to tell you rattlecage is a terrible set, which is absolute nonsense.

Heavy armor Argonian Magblades that emphasize hot uptime and sustained ranged fights generally rock tri stat or immovable pots. Entropy is a great choice for sure, but rattlecage actually offers near the same spell damage as julianos and affords you a slot on your bar which is a godsend for magblades, be it mark, execute etc etc.

largeintestine

My melee magblade with 5 spinner 5 lich 2 engine although I’m gonna give 2 pirate skeleton a try https://youtu.be/KtwgWglMerg
Missing nirn sword

Trashs1

@largeintestine wp, but if u ask me console play allways looks so slow and it seems there ar alot more potatoes in there^^

largeintestine

@Trashs1 true but I guess all systems each have their own bad players lol wish I had a gaming pc

Trashs1

largeintestine wrote: »

@Trashs1 true but I guess all systems each have their own bad players lol wish I had a gaming pc

Thats ofc true. Beside u did a rly good job of analysing situations and when to engage, u had at least two times problems to get LOS, not becaise of enemy cc, because of clunkyness of gamepad controlls. That never happens with a mouse.

Also if u go behind an enemy it seems it lasts ages they are able to turn arround and attack u again.

Subversus

exeeter702 wrote: »

Maulkin wrote: »

Exodium wrote: »

Maulkin wrote: »

Trashs1 wrote: »

Knootewoot wrote: »

Since friday i run 5 light, 1 heavy (chest) and 1 medium pants. I was always 7 Light. But survivability went up.

Also i added extra health by wearing 1 piece of skoria and switched Julianos 5 piece with Krangnerac 5 pience. Kragnerac gives +health, + magicka, mag regeneration and extra damage (and faster rezzing). My other set it still warmaiden.

I now have 25k healh.

Yesterday some stamblade using shieldbreaker sniped me, but didn't kill me instant. So i popped a ward and heard that annoying sound of shieldbreaker. I was so happy i had a bit more health then before and swallow soul saved my ass. Healing me and killing the stamblade.

Although maybe not the best sets, i do really love Kragnerac because it's also craftable. I do wish i had my lich set complete so i could put that on my backbar and a damage set on my front bar so i could wear a full monsterset.

i needed 78 runs of coh1 for my lich restro...

If it's any consolation, I've been hunting the Rattlecage Inferno staff and I'm around 110 runs deep so far with no luck. I currently have:
- 2 Restos
- 2 Lightning staves
- 1 Ice staff
- 2 Greatswords
- 3 swords
- 2 Daggers
...and I've decon'ed quite a few shields and bows too. That's excluding all the oblivion and worm cult trash I've picked during those runs and all the jewellery.

In other words, you got off lightly.

I've got a rattlecage inferno that I always thought might be useful for something but never exactly realised what haha. How would you incorporate it in a build though? So many sources of major sorcerer

You have precisely 3 other possible sources of Major Sorcery: pots, entropy, sap essence.

Sap is out since I play pretty much only BGs and prefer to go for single target build. Pots are out cause I need tri-pots more often than not for either stamina, or for an emergency heal or both. That leaves entropy, that most people slot. Which I could slot too, but using Rattlecage means I can slot Magelight instead and thus get more magicka and more damage-heals through higher crit chance.

The build I have planned is Necro, Rattle, Domi, 6-1 light. And the 5% magicka from Magelight works really well for an Altmer MageBlade build with Necro. In fact you end up with more Max Mag, Spell Damage and Crit than a Shackle, Necro, Domi set up that uses Entropy. Although you do sacrifice something in Max Regen, that's I suppose is the trade off.

Though another possible build is Rattle & Lich on front/back staves (since all your damage is on the front bar) and then you can slot a 2p monster set like skoria which works pretty well if you use double dot poisons. You have lower magicka on that build but higher spell damage, because you can lean on Lich for sustain and put more dmg on the enchants.

Yeah you have the right mindset here, and should disregard most that try to tell you rattlecage is a terrible set, which is absolute nonsense.

Heavy armor Argonian Magblades that emphasize hot uptime and sustained ranged fights generally rock tri stat or immovable pots. Entropy is a great choice for sure, but rattlecage actually offers near the same spell damage as julianos and affords you a slot on your bar which is a godsend for magblades, be it mark, execute etc etc.

I can safely say that I've played a heavy magblade for a long time now, and I can't think of any situation where rattlecage would win over setups like julianos/riposte or alch/warmaiden. Rattlecage is an absolute waste of a set. There is NO situation where a bar slot is worth more than a 5p.

Also, you mentioned that heavy argonian magblades play with 3 stat pots?????? You obviously have no idea what you're talking about, I've played with a high elf in heavy and 0 (absolutely 0) stam regen sources and I sustained my stam just fine, let alone in an argonian where every pot is a tri-stat?

@Maulkin The build you mentioned, necro/rattle/domi will get absolutely outclassed by necro/shackle/domi, especially if you play an argonian. No offense, it's just plain facts.

Subversus

largeintestine wrote: »

My melee magblade with 5 spinner 5 lich 2 engine although I’m gonna give 2 pirate skeleton a try https://youtu.be/KtwgWglMerg
Missing nirn sword

Awesome! Melee magblades are always fun to watch ^^

Datthaw

@Subversus so I got bored with my normal shackle/necro/skoria light armor setup and I had a heavy Julianos set hanging out in my bank. Decided to give your setup a run and I gotta say I really like it.

I was a little off at the start, it was hard to look at my max mag being alot lower than my other setup, plus I couldn't run spell mundus so I went atro to get to 1700 regen. So 1700 regen then ele drain and siphon I'm sitting pretty on sustain. Plus I'm still at 2.2k spell damage unbuffed with gold spell enchants and nirn staff, so damage isn't lacking.

I was pretty suprised with how well that build works openworld. It was a very nice change of pace. Getting hit by shalks and dawnbreaker with no shield up and not melting was a welcomed change.

But now I'm all conflicted, as if I wasn't conflicted before. I love my light armor setup, won some great duels in that gear. But giving your setup a run the last couple days I'm rethinking my opinion on heavy armor.

GreenhaloX

Datthaw wrote: »

@Subversus so I got bored with my normal shackle/necro/skoria light armor setup and I had a heavy Julianos set hanging out in my bank. Decided to give your setup a run and I gotta say I really like it.

I was a little off at the start, it was hard to look at my max mag being alot lower than my other setup, plus I couldn't run spell mundus so I went atro to get to 1700 regen. So 1700 regen then ele drain and siphon I'm sitting pretty on sustain. Plus I'm still at 2.2k spell damage unbuffed with gold spell enchants and nirn staff, so damage isn't lacking.

I was pretty suprised with how well that build works openworld. It was a very nice change of pace. Getting hit by shalks and dawnbreaker with no shield up and not melting was a welcomed change.

But now I'm all conflicted, as if I wasn't conflicted before. I love my light armor setup, won some great duels in that gear. But giving your setup a run the last couple days I'm rethinking my opinion on heavy armor.

I'm kind of on the fence with the atron mundus. I may give it a try, but having that extra regen means I have to give up the spell/resist. I have been a harder kill with 20-25k resist. This is what have been allowing me to survive more against those heavy dks and stamplars. I ran a 5 medium/2 heavy before with about 2k maj regen, but my spell dam was only about 1.8k unbuff and resist was around 15k, and I was getting wrecked left and right. Since I switched to buff up the spell (same, around 2.2 unbuff) and resist to 20k (unbuff), I'm able to wreck the dks and stamplars here and there, instead of never winning before. I have gotten quite a few revenge kills since. However, since my spell and resist are up, my maj recovery is so poor. It's not even hitting 1k. However, I am fairing better than when I was about 2k recovery.

You have to sacrifice something to get something. I hate drawn out fight. I have to hit them hard and fast. If I can't kill within 43k something maj, then, I will cloak out as best as I can and hide a bit until my resources recover. Yeah, might be a chicken crap way to some, but tactical to others; especially, when I get them to almost dying, then they pop the Vigor and/or other health regen back to 3/4 and/or almost full. However, if they get me with those anti-vis thing, dammit. Ha ha

Adenoma

@Subversus , what's your feeling on light vs. heavy armor in no-CP? I'm weighing the merits of 5L or 5H when running 5x overwhelming, 5x durok's. I feel like I'm starting to err on the side of running 5x heavy - with siphoning attacks and elemental drain you can get by with the lower regens. You miss the penetration and spell crit of light armor though.

Edited to add that I'm a vampire and I'm using skoria over TK.

Maulkin

Subversus wrote: »

@Maulkin The build you mentioned, necro/rattle/domi will get absolutely outclassed by necro/shackle/domi, especially if you play an argonian. No offense, it's just plain facts.

I have an Altmer NB, not an Argonian, but I haven't seen the difference you are describing. I have played both set ups.

I have worse sustain on Rattle, because I use tri-food and the mag regen glyphs don't get you quite as far as Shackle with Witchmothers gets you. But the damage boost you get from the higher max magicka and higher crit chance is also more than evident.