A case for optional Veteran Mode for Overland Content

Wandering_Scholar

A case for optional Veteran Mode for Overland Content

Introduction

There has been a lot of forum discussion regarding the difficulty of overland content. On one side, there are people who believe overland content is too easy, and as a result is not engaging and provides no excitement or greater learning experience. On the other side, there are people who believe overland content shouldn’t be challenging, so new players can still play and a carefree solo experience can be enjoyed. Both sides have their merits and both sides often bring up reasonable points to support their beliefs.

Current overland difficulty should stay.
I think that the current difficulty of overland should be preserved. Primarily I think it’s best for new players who are just getting into the game. They need time to get adjusted to how the game works, and it’s true that many of them like to feel like they’re making progress without going through too many frustrations that comes with challenge. For a majority of the player population, the current difficulty is just fine for them and they are content. From a business point of view these players provide the game with revenue, and shouldn’t be lost due to inaccessibility by difficulty.

Experienced players who want to enjoy overland shouldn’t be ignored.
There is however a substantial portion of the player population that is experienced. They’ve learned how to perform roles and overcome greater challenges during their time playing the game. They play solo content but likely enjoy group content, completing dungeons and trials, and push themselves to do these things on Veteran Mode! By their nature, they had to have spent a notable amount of time with the game to become experienced, and will stick around as long as they are engaged. These players also provide revenue and shouldn’t be ignored. While the number of these experienced players are likely lower than their counterparts, they are still a significant part of the population and revenue.

Veteran Mode for Overland should be added.
We have normal modes and veteran modes for dungeons and trials. Both modes are done frequently by all types of players and both modes have their part to play within the game. I think the same would be true for Overland content. By classifying the current difficulty as Normal Mode, then adding a separate Veteran Mode— a gap in the game can be filled. It would help experienced players remain engaged, help aspiring players prepare for more challenging content, and have people continue playing the game thus keeping them invested and earning revenue for the game.

Veteran Mode for Overland Design:

How should it be added?
Veteran Mode for Overland could be toggled on and off just like it’s done for dungeons and trials. A notification message can appear in the corner of the screen upon entering a zone, just like it’s done for dungeons, informing the player the area is set to Veteran or Normal Mode. Looking at NPCs can reveal a Veteran Shield Icon next to their name, just like there was before One Tamriel, to let players know this mob is sent to veteran difficulty for those who are unsure. The mode could of course be over ridden if you travel to a friend, guild mate, or group mate so you appear in the correct zone with them.

How difficult should Veteran Overland be?
I think adjusting the mobs’ difficulty to be on the level of Veteran Maelstrom Arena would be sound. Their damage and health is already adjusted to a level where they are threatening to any player, or at least can’t be summarily ignored! This makes them soloable by experienced players, but less experienced players can group up to defeat them. This also helps players aspiring to complete Veteran Maelstrom Arena a direct place to practice, but more on that later. World Bosses and Public Dungeons difficulty could be pushed up a little higher than overland so even the experienced player would think about bringing a friend or two.

What incentives and rewards should be provided?
The Reward/Effort ratio is important when approaching any game design, especially games with progression! Once again somewhat mirroring how dungeons do it, I believe an increased chance of purple (epic) drops should be given over blue and green drops. This will incentivize those farming for those elusive jewelry pieces for world sets. An increase in the amount of experience earned should also be added, as these mobs by their nature will take more time to defeat. So the amount of experience gains will not be too greatly inflated. There can also be singular rewards provided through achievements.

Separate quests and achievements?
Separate quests and achievements could be added, and will be just a veteran version of the normal ones. Not any different, but done on veteran mode, with the quest rewards being that extra quality tier and achievements just giving more points. Like dungeons and trials, a unique title/costume/hat/tattoo could be offered if done on veteran. Nothing game changing, but people like these things. Anyone who has trouble getting these achievement rewards can group for it to beat the challenges. This would also give incentive to current players to do the overland content again if they have beaten it already.

Why Veteran Mode for Overland would be good:

Experienced players are engaged.
As touched on before here and in many other discussions; the more experienced players will feel that sense of excitement from playing overland content again. Often for them, even if the story is good, the gameplay is just not interesting enough for them due to the speed the mobs are defeated. Finally that powerful enemy that has been hyped up during the quest storyline can live up to their reputation! Just having to focus while fighting monsters makes a big difference in gameplay.

Gives greater reason for grouping in overland.
Right now many players don’t group often in overland. Aside from occasionally banding together to fight a world boss, there is very little reason to. Many players who do group for quests and the such often find it even more of a fast and light of an experience. Someone could come join a fight, but chances are you were going to win anyways. Often other players are only seen as the guys that will steal your chests, nodes, and kill the delve boss before you get there. Now when someone comes in to lend a hand to that pack of mobs, or delve boss, that might be someone you see as an ally to be thankful for. People could feel like they're contributing while in a group rather than feeling redundant.

Helps the learning curve.
A common complaint and nightmare for players is just how difficult their first attempts at Veteran Maelstrom Arena is. And it’s easy to see where they are coming from. The only previous solo experience is the current overland and normal Maelstrom Arena, which can widely be agreed on are not nearly as challenging as Veteran Maelstrom Arena. A Veteran Overland would allow players just stepping into max level and higher champion points a controlled environment of more difficult monsters. They can first face isolated mobs before trying greater packs. They can first fight them with a friend before slowly deciding to facing these monsters by themselves. With this the jump into Veteran Maelstrom Arena would not be as jarring!

Gives a greater feeling of progression.
Current overland content gives very little differences between the typical mobs you meet. If you can defeat that pack of skeevers, you can probably beat that pack of bandits, a trio of daedra, that bear, that ogre, that troll, etc. Their current level of difficulty provides no real difference in facing them aside from a skin change. The mechanics they provide are negligible due to all of them doing the same relatively small amount of damage. But veteran overland would make you approach them differently, making you acknowledge their strengths and skills. Then overcoming them would make you feel all that more successful and invested in the game. Many new players grow and become experienced players with time, and like their new skills to be matched to some degree! A sense of progression is important to any RPGs, even those of the MMORPG variety.

Gives players more investment and goals.
So MMOs live on the continued playing and investment by their player base. That’s how they get their ongoing revenues. If a player has no goal, they are likely to stop playing soon after. With easier content, it's more quickly consumed and goals are reached fast. Then they leave or take a break until the next content comes. There has to be something to strive for, something to complete. Sometimes it's done through collectibles, other times it's done through challenges. A Veteran Mode for overland could provide that, slowing down overland content consumption and keep the players in game and providing revenue.

Good way to make use of already existing content.
Developing content takes resources. Probably the highest expenses are new art assets, world and encounter designs, voice overs, etcetera. But adding veteran mode to what already exists would be relatively low cost and time efficient and give a big return for the player experience. Though some people may argue against it, numbers do make a big difference in MMOs. The difference between a fireball that can be shrugged off and a fireball that is seen as a threat and you avoid is all about the amount of damage it does to you. Adjusting those values is not too resource intensive compared to many other endeavors, and offer greater return for the game and company.

Arguments against Veteran Mode for Overland:

The separation of player base.
This is likely the biggest argument against adding a separate Veteran Mode to overland. It’s also true, the player base would be separated into normal and veteran modes in the overland. The thing is that for many zones, there are already two or more different phases separating the player base due to zone population caps! So if it’s being done already, people might as well be in the difficulty mode they want. I don’t have the total population data, or know the exact number of total active phases or how much stress this puts on the servers. But functionally if there are already multiple phases going, giving them categories shouldn’t be an issue. True the players who want difficult content would be separate from the players who want easy content, but they approach the game differently anyways and likely don't play together frequently.

Nerf yourself.
It’s true that not using champion points, and fighting naked with fists and not using skills would make the game more difficult. But players who want more challenging content don’t want to challenge only themselves, but also their builds; their gear, their skills, and their champion points. They want to see how far they can push themselves with all these things they've earned and reach greater heights. Someone who does a one mile race then feels good and wants to run a more intensive race should have the option there. Sure they can challenge themselves by running the same one mile race again, but this time go barefoot, fill themselves with cake before the race, try doing it on their hands, or shoot themselves in the foot to handicap themselves— but they’d probably prefer just running a more intensive five mile race instead.

Imperial City was nerfed.
Monsters in the Imperial City used to be challenging, but then were nerfed one patch to make them the same difficulty as the overland monsters. This was meant to incentivize more people to go there. Today the Imperial City is not exactly known as a bustling place of activity. It’s actually just as empty as before, if not more so with isolated farmers and the rare group or skirmish. Chances are also if you couldn’t fight more challenging PvE monsters, you’d probably get murdered anyway by the prowling experienced PvPer. So I don’t think the monster difficulty was the problem here.

Craglorn was nerfed.
The famous Craglorn nerf took the zone from group oriented to solo oriented. Many would say that this is the clear sign that no one wanted difficult overland. There were many other simultaneous issues with Craglorn. This includes a lack of incentive; the experience gained was very low and there wasn’t any useful gear or motifs earned for completion of quests. Achievements also gave nothing but points. Another issue was that the quests were designed in a way that it was a hassle to make progress even if you did have a group. There was an initial surge in Craglorn when it was first released, before dying off later. The same was true when it went solo, many players jumped in to do the quests and get motifs. But once quests were done and motifs were gained, the population has lowered once again. So I don’t believe difficulty was the true problem here either.

Just do Veteran Maelstrom Arena, Veteran dungeons and Veteran trials!
True these options are there for experienced players! But for other players there is also normal maelstrom arena, normal dungeons, and normal trials. There are two difficulties to every piece of PvE content except overland which is just at an accessible difficulty. The gap could be filled here and give experienced players a more fulfilling time with overland content. With dungeons and trials you have to depend on teammates as well, which the solo player may not enjoy, and maelstrom arena is the only difficult solo oriented content designed otherwise.

Not enough experienced population and demand.
While it’s true that the population is not exactly even, there is still a substantial portion of the player base that would enjoy a Veteran mode for overland. There are enough people that do veteran dungeons and veteran trials and as a result they are greatly supported, so I’d say there’d be a significant population who would play Veteran Overland mode as well. It's true that not many people have done the hardest achievements in the game, which are all linked to trials. But it doesn't meant that people wouldn't enjoy a more challenging overland experience. No one can deny that many players prefer an easy going gaming experience, but it also can't be denied that many players seek greater challenge in their games.

As for public demand, it’s difficult to gauge. But here’s a compilation of a bunch of other forum threads touching on this topic in the past with some of them generating big discussions for a reason:

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/386661/esos-overland-content-is-too-hard

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/386633/we-need-overland-hardmode

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/385418/remember-when-quests-were-hard

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/380808/cwc-pointlessly-easy

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/381160/is-overland-content-post-starting-zones-too-easy-for-you

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/362596/pve-combat-is-too-easy-please-add-a-vet-mode-for-overland-content

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/369244/pve-is-too-easy

Conclusion

So yeah, that's my case on why Veteran Mode for Overland should be added. I know people who are content with the current overland difficulty, but I also know people who don't bother with quests and overland because it's an easy and predictable experience. I know people who would leave the game because the base experience might be too hard for them. But I also know people who leave the game because they're bored with the ease of it, and don't want to go through the work and dedication that comes with trial groups.

There are wrong reasons to do things yes. Arguing for veteran difficulty for overland because all players should go through trial-by-fire or leave the game is a wrong reason. It fails to acknowledge players of varying skill levels and drives players away. Arguing against veteran mode for overland because it makes one feel personally inept is also a wrong reason. It comes from a place of selfishness and insecurity and diminishes the gameplay experience of other players, driving them away. So we need to make sure we do things for the right reasons.

Keep the current overland difficulty, because new players do need time to learn and some do enjoy a stress free gaming experience. But add a Veteran Mode for overland, so players can feel engaged in a world of monsters and magic, and challenge their own abilities to achieve new heights.

Masel

Fully agreed,I'd so much like overland hard mode. Guild wars 1 had it and it was the best thing that happened to the game there.

Rewardwise, I'd suggest giving world bosses and dolmens the chance to drop golden jewelry.

A Question would be whether the zone should be instanced, because if not, all players will just group up at these places and there will be a lot of players getting carried through the dolmens/ world bosses etc that wouldn't be able to beat it and are not ready to actually be there.

OutLaw_Nynx

No

Feric51

+1 Insightful for such a thought out and thorough post.

I agree with nearly everything you posted, and may be back later to add some constructive feedback, but I'll just be content with reading everyone else's replies for now.

Huzzah!

Hixtory

[\quote]
Conclusion

So yeah, that's my case on why Veteran Mode for Overland should be added. I know people who are content with the current overland difficulty, but I also know people who don't bother with quests and overland because it's an easy and predictable experience. I know people who would leave the game because the base experience might be too hard for them. But I also know people who leave the game because they're bored with the ease of it, and don't want to go through the work and dedication that comes with trial groups.

There are wrong reasons to do things yes. Arguing for veteran difficulty for overland because all players should go through trial-by-fire or leave the game is a wrong reason. It fails to acknowledge players of varying skill levels and drives players away. Arguing against veteran mode for overland because it makes one feel personally inept is also a wrong reason. It comes from a place of selfishness and insecurity and diminishes the gameplay experience of other players, driving them away. So we need to make sure we do things for the right reasons.

Keep the current overland difficulty, because new players do need time to learn and some do enjoy a stress free gaming experience. But add a Veteran Mode for overland, so players can feel engaged in a world of monsters and magic, and challenge their own abilities to achieve new heights.[/quote]

This isn´t the first time something like this is asked, but after reading your post, I'm on board. Hope ZOS take into consideration this post.

iNSiPiD1

This is probably one of the best ways to go about increasing the difficulty of Overland content. I have no doubt this would draw a LOT of people back into the game, and keep the current experienced players engaged.

Nice work on compiling all that together.

maboleth

Instancing is a big no, if this would require one that is. I like the fact that both lev 1 player and c690 can fight the same enemy monster and both will have scaled difficulty, as of now.

Second, there are far too many enemy npcs for this to function like Maelstrom arena. Navigating the world would be cumbersome if everyone would be challenging.

Wizball1987

Hixtory wrote: »

Wandering_Scholar wrote: »

A case for optional Veteran Mode for Overland Content

Introduction

There has been a lot of forum discussion regarding the difficulty of overland content. On one side, there are people who believe overland content is too easy, and as a result is not engaging and provides no excitement or greater learning experience. On the other side, there are people who believe overland content shouldn’t be challenging, so new players can still play and a carefree solo experience can be enjoyed. Both sides have their merits and both sides often bring up reasonable points to support their beliefs.

Current overland difficulty should stay.
I think that the current difficulty of overland should be preserved. Primarily I think it’s best for new players who are just getting into the game. They need time to get adjusted to how the game works, and it’s true that many of them like to feel like they’re making progress without going through too many frustrations that comes with challenge. For a majority of the player population, the current difficulty is just fine for them and they are content. From a business point of view these players provide the game with revenue, and shouldn’t be lost due to inaccessibility by difficulty.

Experienced players who want to enjoy overland shouldn’t be ignored.
There is however a substantial portion of the player population that is experienced. They’ve learned how to perform roles and overcome greater challenges during their time playing the game. They play solo content but likely enjoy group content, completing dungeons and trials, and push themselves to do these things on Veteran Mode! By their nature, they had to have spent a notable amount of time with the game to become experienced, and will stick around as long as they are engaged. These players also provide revenue and shouldn’t be ignored. While the number of these experienced players are likely lower than their counterparts, they are still a significant part of the population and revenue.

Veteran Mode for Overland should be added.
We have normal modes and veteran modes for dungeons and trials. Both modes are done frequently by all types of players and both modes have their part to play within the game. I think the same would be true for Overland content. By classifying the current difficulty as Normal Mode, then adding a separate Veteran Mode— a gap in the game can be filled. It would help experienced players remain engaged, help aspiring players prepare for more challenging content, and have people continue playing the game thus keeping them invested and earning revenue for the game.

Veteran Mode for Overland Design:

How should it be added?
Veteran Mode for Overland could be toggled on and off just like it’s done for dungeons and trials. A notification message can appear in the corner of the screen upon entering a zone, just like it’s done for dungeons, informing the player the area is set to Veteran or Normal Mode. Looking at NPCs can reveal a Veteran Shield Icon next to their name, just like there was before One Tamriel, to let players know this mob is sent to veteran difficulty for those who are unsure. The mode could of course be over ridden if you travel to a friend, guild mate, or group mate so you appear in the correct zone with them.

How difficult should Veteran Overland be?
I think adjusting the mobs’ difficulty to be on the level of Veteran Maelstrom Arena would be sound. Their damage and health is already adjusted to a level where they are threatening to any player, or at least can’t be summarily ignored! This makes them soloable by experienced players, but less experienced players can group up to defeat them. This also helps players aspiring to complete Veteran Maelstrom Arena a direct place to practice, but more on that later. World Bosses and Public Dungeons difficulty could be pushed up a little higher than overland so even the experienced player would think about bringing a friend or two.

What incentives and rewards should be provided?
The Reward/Effort ratio is important when approaching any game design, especially games with progression! Once again somewhat mirroring how dungeons do it, I believe an increased chance of purple (epic) drops should be given over blue and green drops. This will incentivize those farming for those elusive jewelry pieces for world sets. An increase in the amount of experience earned should also be added, as these mobs by their nature will take more time to defeat. So the amount of experience gains will not be too greatly inflated. There can also be singular rewards provided through achievements.

Separate quests and achievements?
Separate quests and achievements could be added, and will be just a veteran version of the normal ones. Not any different, but done on veteran mode, with the quest rewards being that extra quality tier and achievements just giving more points. Like dungeons and trials, a unique title/costume/hat/tattoo could be offered if done on veteran. Nothing game changing, but people like these things. Anyone who has trouble getting these achievement rewards can group for it to beat the challenges. This would also give incentive to current players to do the overland content again if they have beaten it already.

Why Veteran Mode for Overland would be good:

Experienced players are engaged.
As touched on before here and in many other discussions; the more experienced players will feel that sense of excitement from playing overland content again. Often for them, even if the story is good, the gameplay is just not interesting enough for them due to the speed the mobs are defeated. Finally that powerful enemy that has been hyped up during the quest storyline can live up to their reputation! Just having to focus while fighting monsters makes a big difference in gameplay.

Gives greater reason for grouping in overland.
Right now many players don’t group often in overland. Aside from occasionally banding together to fight a world boss, there is very little reason to. Many players who do group for quests and the such often find it even more of a fast and light of an experience. Someone could come join a fight, but chances are you were going to win anyways. Often other players are only seen as the guys that will steal your chests, nodes, and kill the delve boss before you get there. Now when someone comes in to lend a hand to that pack of mobs, or delve boss, that might be someone you see as an ally to be thankful for. People could feel like they're contributing while in a group rather than feeling redundant.

Helps the learning curve.
A common complaint and nightmare for players is just how difficult their first attempts at Veteran Maelstrom Arena is. And it’s easy to see where they are coming from. The only previous solo experience is the current overland and normal Maelstrom Arena, which can widely be agreed on are not nearly as challenging as Veteran Maelstrom Arena. A Veteran Overland would allow players just stepping into max level and higher champion points a controlled environment of more difficult monsters. They can first face isolated mobs before trying greater packs. They can first fight them with a friend before slowly deciding to facing these monsters by themselves. With this the jump into Veteran Maelstrom Arena would not be as jarring!

Gives a greater feeling of progression.
Current overland content gives very little differences between the typical mobs you meet. If you can defeat that pack of skeevers, you can probably beat that pack of bandits, a trio of daedra, that bear, that ogre, that troll, etc. Their current level of difficulty provides no real difference in facing them aside from a skin change. The mechanics they provide are negligible due to all of them doing the same relatively small amount of damage. But veteran overland would make you approach them differently, making you acknowledge their strengths and skills. Then overcoming them would make you feel all that more successful and invested in the game. Many new players grow and become experienced players with time, and like their new skills to be matched to some degree! A sense of progression is important to any RPGs, even those of the MMORPG variety.

Gives players more investment and goals.
So MMOs live on the continued playing and investment by their player base. That’s how they get their ongoing revenues. If a player has no goal, they are likely to stop playing soon after. With easier content, it's more quickly consumed and goals are reached fast. Then they leave or take a break until the next content comes. There has to be something to strive for, something to complete. Sometimes it's done through collectibles, other times it's done through challenges. A Veteran Mode for overland could provide that, slowing down overland content consumption and keep the players in game and providing revenue.

Good way to make use of already existing content.
Developing content takes resources. Probably the highest expenses are new art assets, world and encounter designs, voice overs, etcetera. But adding veteran mode to what already exists would be relatively low cost and time efficient and give a big return for the player experience. Though some people may argue against it, numbers do make a big difference in MMOs. The difference between a fireball that can be shrugged off and a fireball that is seen as a threat and you avoid is all about the amount of damage it does to you. Adjusting those values is not too resource intensive compared to many other endeavors, and offer greater return for the game and company.

Arguments against Veteran Mode for Overland:

The separation of player base.
This is likely the biggest argument against adding a separate Veteran Mode to overland. It’s also true, the player base would be separated into normal and veteran modes in the overland. The thing is that for many zones, there are already two or more different phases separating the player base due to zone population caps! So if it’s being done already, people might as well be in the difficulty mode they want. I don’t have the total population data, or know the exact number of total active phases or how much stress this puts on the servers. But functionally if there are already multiple phases going, giving them categories shouldn’t be an issue. True the players who want difficult content would be separate from the players who want easy content, but they approach the game differently anyways and likely don't play together frequently.

Nerf yourself.
It’s true that not using champion points, and fighting naked with fists and not using skills would make the game more difficult. But players who want more challenging content don’t want to challenge only themselves, but also their builds; their gear, their skills, and their champion points. They want to see how far they can push themselves with all these things they've earned and reach greater heights. Someone who does a one mile race then feels good and wants to run a more intensive race should have the option there. Sure they can challenge themselves by running the same one mile race again, but this time go barefoot, fill themselves with cake before the race, try doing it on their hands, or shoot themselves in the foot to handicap themselves— but they’d probably prefer just running a more intensive five mile race instead.

Imperial City was nerfed.
Monsters in the Imperial City used to be challenging, but then were nerfed one patch to make them the same difficulty as the overland monsters. This was meant to incentivize more people to go there. Today the Imperial City is not exactly known as a bustling place of activity. It’s actually just as empty as before, if not more so with isolated farmers and the rare group or skirmish. Chances are also if you couldn’t fight more challenging PvE monsters, you’d probably get murdered anyway by the prowling experienced PvPer. So I don’t think the monster difficulty was the problem here.

Craglorn was nerfed.
The famous Craglorn nerf took the zone from group oriented to solo oriented. Many would say that this is the clear sign that no one wanted difficult overland. There were many other simultaneous issues with Craglorn. This includes a lack of incentive; the experience gained was very low and there wasn’t any useful gear or motifs earned for completion of quests. Achievements also gave nothing but points. Another issue was that the quests were designed in a way that it was a hassle to make progress even if you did have a group. There was an initial surge in Craglorn when it was first released, before dying off later. The same was true when it went solo, many players jumped in to do the quests and get motifs. But once quests were done and motifs were gained, the population has lowered once again. So I don’t believe difficulty was the true problem here either.

Just do Veteran Maelstrom Arena, Veteran dungeons and Veteran trials!
True these options are there for experienced players! But for other players there is also normal maelstrom arena, normal dungeons, and normal trials. There are two difficulties to every piece of PvE content except overland which is just at an accessible difficulty. The gap could be filled here and give experienced players a more fulfilling time with overland content. With dungeons and trials you have to depend on teammates as well, which the solo player may not enjoy, and maelstrom arena is the only difficult solo oriented content designed otherwise.

Not enough experienced population and demand.
While it’s true that the population is not exactly even, there is still a substantial portion of the player base that would enjoy a Veteran mode for overland. There are enough people that do veteran dungeons and veteran trials and as a result they are greatly supported, so I’d say there’d be a significant population who would play Veteran Overland mode as well. It's true that not many people have done the hardest achievements in the game, which are all linked to trials. But it doesn't meant that people wouldn't enjoy a more challenging overland experience. No one can deny that many players prefer an easy going gaming experience, but it also can't be denied that many players seek greater challenge in their games.

As for public demand, it’s difficult to gauge. But here’s a compilation of a bunch of other forum threads touching on this topic in the past with some of them generating big discussions for a reason:

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/386661/esos-overland-content-is-too-hard

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/386633/we-need-overland-hardmode

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/385418/remember-when-quests-were-hard

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/380808/cwc-pointlessly-easy

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/381160/is-overland-content-post-starting-zones-too-easy-for-you

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/362596/pve-combat-is-too-easy-please-add-a-vet-mode-for-overland-content

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/369244/pve-is-too-easy

Conclusion

So yeah, that's my case on why Veteran Mode for Overland should be added. I know people who are content with the current overland difficulty, but I also know people who don't bother with quests and overland because it's an easy and predictable experience. I know people who would leave the game because the base experience might be too hard for them. But I also know people who leave the game because they're bored with the ease of it, and don't want to go through the work and dedication that comes with trial groups.

There are wrong reasons to do things yes. Arguing for veteran difficulty for overland because all players should go through trial-by-fire or leave the game is a wrong reason. It fails to acknowledge players of varying skill levels and drives players away. Arguing against veteran mode for overland because it makes one feel personally inept is also a wrong reason. It comes from a place of selfishness and insecurity and diminishes the gameplay experience of other players, driving them away. So we need to make sure we do things for the right reasons.

Keep the current overland difficulty, because new players do need time to learn and some do enjoy a stress free gaming experience. But add a Veteran Mode for overland, so players can feel engaged in a world of monsters and magic, and challenge their own abilities to achieve new heights.

This isn´t the first time something like this is asked, but after reading your post, I'm on board. Hope ZOS take into consideration this post.

Lol yes good idea

Kel

"There has been a lot of forum discussion regarding the difficulty of overland content."


https://i.imgur.com/W0Hny7I.gif

monktoasty

Better not to separate population.

Better that you find a different game that takes 10 minutes to kill 1 mob just trying to get from point a to b

Saint_Bud

Just remove your cp and run with random sets.

AlienSlof

iNSiPiD1 wrote: »

This is probably one of the best ways to go about increasing the difficulty of Overland content. I have no doubt this would draw a LOT of people back into the game, and keep the current experienced players engaged.

Nice work on compiling all that together.

Agree wholeheartedly. Well thought-out post. More choice is always a Good Thing.

Faulgor

Player separation is a big no-no. It would undo all that One Tamriel accomplished.

If harder difficulties get added, they need to work as an optional, individual debuff. The technology for player scaling is already in place and doesn't require any new zones or instances, or adjustment of all overland mobs.

Doctordarkspawn

Very nice case, just want to point out two things:

1. There is a subset of the 'aganst' base that I am a part of who believe that the reason overland content should be changed or given a new mode is a faulty one that will not please these players. I want to make this distinction now.

2. You cite that this would encourage grouping in overland, but this is precisely why craglorn failed. It failed because the difficulty forced people to group, the design forced people to group, and -no one wants to group for something as trivial as questing-. This is something your just going to have to accept because time and again it's proven to be the case.

Nobody ***' wants to. Nobody. Nobody wants to sit there and wait for the one guy who wants to read -all the quest diologue-, and that alone is why this *** usually isn't popular with people.

Ladislao

This is a bad solution for a non-existent problem.

The fact that some number of elitists is dissatisfied with the difficulty does not mean anything. How many people are satisfied and do not write anything?
I am also dissatisfied with the current situation, but I accept the rules of the game, because I know why they are like that.

Another negative point is instances. Perhaps I'm wrong, but it seems to me that in online games you should try to avoid instances wherever possible. With the increase in the number of instances, the integrity of the game world disappears. Do you want to play session game or mmo?


I will not be original, but I'll repeat it. Instead of changing the game so much, try to find another one

Girl_Number8

OutLaw_Nynx wrote: »

No

Simple, precise, and correct. Overland content is already to hard because of all the stupid dc's. Fix the base game plzzz.

Getern

OutLaw_Nynx wrote: »

No

why would u care anyway? You dont have to participate in veteran mode? Aa... I see what is ur problem, too much effort to get something? Filthy casual

SirAndy

Meh ...

Banana

Run around naked or go back to PVP

Wandering_Scholar

Regarding difficulty...
For added clarity on why choosing the difficulty of Veteran Maelstrom Arena for this concept, I generally refer to the regular mobs from the waves rather than the bosses themselves. Maelstrom Arena was designed with the solo player in mind. The developers looked at the player population and then designed accordingly. Just as the current overland is to normal maelstrom arena, veteran overland can be to veteran maelstrom arena.

Players who are used to current overland jump into normal maelstrom arena and find it familiar with the difficult of monsters they face, with added challenges with the bosses and their respective mechanics. The same experience can be translated to the Veteran level. In a Veteran Overland though, rather than have the pressure of the next wave spawning to overwhelm you, you can keep it controlled with the monsters and groups you attack.

Regarding power creep...
A power creep argument has been mentioned elsewhere due to Champion Points. Though I'd say most of the power creep occurs in the early CP due to diminishing returns per CP point. But even at CP 690, you don't want to just play with the monsters, give them an opportunity and they can still kill you or at least force you on the defensive. While I understand exaggerations do put things into perspective, for those on the level of Veteran Maelstrom Arena, it does not take ten minutes to kill a monster or a wave of monsters. Rather it's a small amount of time where there's quick assessment and then thoughtful action.

On player separation...
One Tamriel did fix a rather large problem among the player base, which was separation based on alliance faction. People across all factions shared many like minded ideals, so allowing them to come together was a great idea.

Would separating overland based on difficulty fracture the player base? Maybe not to the extent people would think. Currently there's not much interaction in seeing other players in the world. As it's solo oriented, people go their own way with occasionally happening to be going for the same boss/skyshard, and happen to have the same monsters in the way. Then most commonly they part ways without a word. Seeing another player in the world just makes their existence present, without any interactions between them. The exception would be world bosses and maybe dark anchors, still players just assess if others are around before tackling them before once again parting ways without a second thought. Is it forcing players to group if they want to kill a world boss? Maybe so if they need a hand.

And if the demand for Veteran Overland is so low, as many would say, then the majority of the population would remain in the current overland and very little would change for them. But is it 10% who would play Veteran Overland? 20%? 30%? I guess it'd depend on the incentives to do so. There are many players that do all levels of content.

Interactions with other players in veteran overland would be more conscious. If monsters are tough but another person comes along, you may actively decide to tag team, and not leave each other's side as you work your way to an objective.

Difficulty makes things cumbersome?
People have different viewpoints on difficulty. Challenging may mean engaging/interesting to one person, and cumbersome/frustrating to another. Easiness may mean relaxing/quick to one person, and boring/predictable to another. Can't discredit either side by calling all of one side a singular name like 'elitists' or 'filthy casuals.'

iNSiPiD1

For all the people arguing that it would fracture the game world, you should consider the idea that it's too populated now anyway.

I can't count how many times I've ruined a delve for a new player by just steamrolling everything before they can even get a shot in on the mobs. I have NO DOUBT these new players would love to do more than just follow behind me as I do all the content they are being denied because of the way the game was built.