Structured Entropy vs Purifying Light...

TheDoomsdayMonster

Grrrr!!!!

I've been crunching numbers and taking into account different senario's for days now and cant come to a clear conclusion as to which is superior to slot...


Structured Entropy gives me:

600 Magicka (Constant effect)...
2000 Health (Constant effect)...
Major Sorcery (20% Spell Power) for 20 secs...
Empowers the next attack...
14.4 Second weak DoT...
Provides a small heal tick on seconds 1, 7, and 13...

Pro (compared to Purifying Light):
Can potentially proc the Combat Physician Damage Shield 3 times from a single cast...

Cons (compared to Purifying Light):
Can only affect one target at a time...
Can be dodged...


Purifying Light gives me:

Minor Sorcery (5% Spell Power) for me and my group for 20 secs...
Regens 3 Ult every 6 secs when used...
Does decent upfront damage (but clearly superior to what Structured Entropy provides in a 6 second time span)...
Has the potential to do excellent burst damage after 6 secs...
Provides a healing tick every 2 secs for 6 secs in a small AoE around the target after the burst takes place...

Pro's: (compared to Structured Entropy):
Can be cast on multiple targets...
Cannot be dodged...

Con's:
6 secs is ample time for the burst to be cleansed...
Can only Proc the Combat Physician Damage Shield once per cast...


Now, before we go deeper into the two abilities, please note that I do not use Spell Power Pot's (to receive Major Sorcery)...ever...my Pot usage is reserved exclusively for Immovable/Detection (thus, I can only get Major Sorcery from Structured Entropy).

Ok, now that that's out of the way (when combined with the above facts), I cant decide if the upfront damage buff provided by Structured Entropy (due to it Empowering my next attack; which is almost always Toppling Charge and amping the damage of the following Devouring Swarm/Puncturing Sweeps) is enough to off set the "back end" damage Purifying Light can potentially provide if used in place of Structured Entropy...


In other words, which is better (when taking all of the above into account as well)?


Purifying Light<Toppling Charge<Devouring Swarm<Puncturing Sweeps...

or

Structured Entropy<Toppling Charge<Devouring Swarm<Puncturing Sweeps...

SugaComa

Or both... One back barred one front barred

TheDoomsdayMonster

SugaComa wrote: »

Or both... One back barred one front barred

No way to slot them both with my current build...

Bar 1 is exclusively for Healing and Defense (there is no room for either on it)...

Bar 2 is exclusively for Killing...

There is only one slot open on Bar 2 for one of these abilities; I cant slot them both...

Grimlok_S

You need major sorcery from somewhere. The cheap empower is also handy.

Reverb

Grimlok_S wrote: »

You need major sorcery from somewhere. The cheap empower is also handy.

That's the question - are you getting Major Sorcery from another source?

Brutusmax1mus

You need entropy if you're not using pots to get sorcery. Purifying light is by far a better skill in regards to healing and damage.

Ultimate_Overlord

If you dont have both sorcery and pol on your templar build, then its bad and suboptimal no matter how you look at it.

DTStormfox

You don't need to have major or minor sorcery if you have a high max stats pool.
Since damage not only scales from your spell damage.

Ultimate_Overlord

No one said that you "need" them, "viable" can be said about many things. I said that a build not using both is suboptimal.

Minno

Ultimate_Overlord wrote: »

No one said that you "need" them, "viable" can be said about many things. I said that a build not using both is suboptimal.

Depends on the build in my opinion. But yes you need puryfing light in many situations. For op, it's a tough choice but I would go purfying light since he is doing both DMG/healing.

DeadlyRecluse

I would never not run entropy in PvP on a magplar, unless I was working some janky rattlecage nonsense.

Brutusmax1mus

Wtf are you taking about @DTStormfox ? Some form of major sorcery is vital. You're fooling yourself of you think you don't need it.

CatchMeTrolling

You don't need major sorcery, YOU need it personally.

Brutusmax1mus

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

You don't need major sorcery, YOU need it personally.

You don't need it if you plan on gimping yourself, sure.

CatchMeTrolling

Brutusmax1mus wrote: »

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

You don't need major sorcery, YOU need it personally.

You don't need it if you plan on gimping yourself, sure.

It's about building around it, this is what sets theory crafters apart from regular player's, but if you take a narrow minded approach you would see it that way.

Reverb

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

Brutusmax1mus wrote: »

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

You don't need major sorcery, YOU need it personally.

You don't need it if you plan on gimping yourself, sure.

It's about building around it, this is what sets theory crafters apart from regular player's, but if you take a narrow minded approach you would see it that way.

Well sure. I call it my "How to be effective in spite of myself, while leaving a lot of potential damage on the table" build.

Joy_Division

If you're not getting major sorcery from somewhere else, then you're just a block BoL bot without Structured Entropy.

If you can find 9 other abilities that are better than Purifying Light, I question your evaluation of those abilities.

Croblasta

What is the reason everyone hates on rattlecage? I understand you can get major sorcery from entropy or pots, but does that make rattlecage bad?

Doesn’t it get expensive using spell power pots? I don’t pvp a lot, but I’m looking to start on my magplar.

Thanks for your help.

DeadlyRecluse

Croblasta wrote: »

What is the reason everyone hates on rattlecage? I understand you can get major sorcery from entropy or pots, but does that make rattlecage bad?

Doesn’t it get expensive using spell power pots? I don’t pvp a lot, but I’m looking to start on my magplar.

Thanks for your help.

Rattlecage sacrifices roughly 200 spell damage worth of utility in the 5 piece (comparing it to Julianos) to free up one skill slot--plus slotting entropy gets you 2% more max magicka and magicka regen, plus a cheap skoria trigger, plus an okay HoT (esp with the extra heal from degeneration).

I've yet to find a skill I need on my bar so badly that I'm willing to give up all that (and run rattlecage).

...that being said, it's not *that* terrible and some people really like it.

The other alternative, chugging spellpower pots isn't cheap--but neither is my current tripot addiction.

cschwingeb14_ESO

If you can't find room for major sorcery on a skill/potion/DKteammate, them rattlecage instantly becomes the best DPS/heal set you could possibly wear, giving you at least 858 spell damage. IE, it's better than Alchemist with 100% uptime

So it's kind of moot. Either you're wearing rattle cage, or you're using entropy, or you're not wearing a DPS/heal set at all... Which would imply some kind of tank/recovery build

Croblasta

Thank you @cschwingeb14_ESO and @DeadlyRecluse

Very well explained.

TheDoomsdayMonster

Thanks for the input guys...


I've concluded that Purifying Light is the superior offensive ability...against a single target.

When using the combo referenced above (Purifying Light/Structured Entropy followed by Toppling Charge, Devouring Swarm, Puncturing Sweeps), Purifying Light will consistently out damage the Structured Entropy combo by about 3k to 4k damage on average...

Purifying Lights value is enhanced by the fact that its almost a death sentence against a single target when you are running with a large group (unless that target has the ability to get away in hurry or hide of course)...


On the flip side, Structured Entropy will eclipse Purifying Light when attacking multiple targets with AoE abilities; the degree in which Structured Entropy supplies the superior damage depends on the number of targets present...

Devouring Swarm benefits greatly from Structured Entropy supplying Major Sorcery and the 2000 point Health bonus especially; its a lethal combo when running with an organized Ball Group...


All in all, I give Purifying Light a small edge...

I think both are terrific abilities and both are worthy on being on anyones toolbar...

TheDoomsdayMonster

Joy_Division wrote: »

If you're not getting major sorcery from somewhere else, then you're just a block BoL bot without Structured Entropy.

If you can find 9 other abilities that are better than Purifying Light, I question your evaluation of those abilities.

What you say here is completely wrong...

Not having Structured Entropy doesn't automatically make you a "block BoL bot" (I don't even run 1h/Shield); I don't know how you came to such an absurd conclusion...

It makes no sense...


As for finding 9 other abilities better than Purifying Light, this is just ignorant talk on your part; your overall build and how well everything synergizes with one another mean far more than simply declaring one ability to be better than another...

One of my bars is exclusively for Healing and Defense, so as pertains performing those functions, all of those abilities on that bar are superior to Purifying Light; that probably doesn't make sense to you though given how limited your thinking seems to be...

On my offensive bar, Toppling Charge and Puncturing Sweeps are joined at the hip as far as I can see, and I wont run one of those without the other...

Radiant Magelight is a mainstay as well as I always run with high Spell Crit and I never leave home without a defense to Nightblades on my tool bar (I love its usefulness as pertains to keeping Nightblades from going back into Stealth as well)...

Invigorating Drain is the best stun available for a Magicka Templar and synergizes very well with the rest of my build and so its not going anywhere...

That leaves only one more slot; thus the choice between Structured Entropy and Purifying Light....


So you see, its not as you think when it comes to evaluating abilities @Joy_Division...

You evaluate overall builds and see which abilities synergize best with whatever you built your character to excell at...

Dredlord

You should also consider that entropy will make your heal bar perform better.

How much spell damage do you have unbuffed. Do you alwas run with a grp?

I went through the same dilemma on my build a while back. My conclusion was if you dont run entropy then you need rattle, like you i refuse to get maj. sorc from pots.

Brutusmax1mus

@TheDoomsdayMonster you're nuts if you think talking to @Joy_Division about templar knowledge is going to end well..

You need major sorcery to be competitive. If you're not getting it, get it, you're just gimping yourself. You should make room for purifying light as well, great burst tool, the best for templars.

Stop thinking of entropy as a damage spell as well. It should be thought of as a buff.

TheDoomsdayMonster

Brutusmax1mus wrote: »

@TheDoomsdayMonster you're nuts if you think talking to @Joy_Division about templar knowledge is going to end well..

You need major sorcery to be competitive. If you're not getting it, get it, you're just gimping yourself. You should make room for purifying light as well, great burst tool, the best for templars.

Stop thinking of entropy as a damage spell as well. It should be thought of as a buff.

Joy may be experienced in the game, but his reasoning above is flawed as I pointed out...

He's human and can be wrong, and he is wrong about what he's said in this thread; my rebuttal on him is sound...


As for "needing" Major Sorcery to be competitive?

I'm not sure about that; I ran a build with Purifying Light instead of Entropy for several hours earlier and it performed magnificently...

And no, I don't think of Entropy as a damage ability at all; its purely a buff/utility ability...


As you can see, I like to go try things that the "experts" say will fail...

Joy is a person that plays this game just like me; he isn't all knowing and hasn't tested every possible build...

Now granted, more testing absolutely needs to be done, but so far, it sure seems to me that you don't "need" Major Sorcery to be successful...

After all, all of my combos against single targets did more damage with Purifying Light than Entropy did...

CatchMeTrolling

I've ran many different setups with and without entropy, still had SUCESS in small scale.

Brutusmax1mus

Your success would be greater/ faster with major sorcery is my point. You can run armor master/ pariah and call yourself a dps for all i care. Sure you're doing damage per second..... but that's not competitive dps. Get it?

CatchMeTrolling

Brutusmax1mus wrote: »

Your success would be greater/ faster with major sorcery is my point. You can run armor master/ pariah and call yourself a dps for all i care. Sure you're doing damage per second..... but that's not competitive dps. Get it?

The game isn't competitive, the average player is a potato, you can make plenty of thing's work, you're confusing competitive with ideal . What you're saying is pretty subjective.

Besides, theory crafting would be boring if we all ran the same setup and gear for the sake of "bis", theory crafting is how you see what works and what doesn't. I've played magplar when people said they were unplayable and even pulled off melee magblade when people said magblade was the worst class. So sorry if I don't get on the bandwagon of what works and what doesn't.

Asardes

I slot them both on my magicka Templar. I actually changed to Degeneration because I don't like my health bouncing back and forth as I change bars, and also degeneration heals you quite a lot from LA/HA weave.

Ultimate_Overlord

Success is subjective, clearly some people in this thread deem running in a zerg xv1ing some pugs successful performance.