Dungeons - cp690+ only option

maniac4maniac

Add please such option, when you don't have people online currently willing to go right now to randon dung / vet for any reason, but you use Dungeon Finder and find a group of cp20-cp40 in your Vet WGT or people that run Vet pledges / n/v randoms to get XP for killing each mob there instead of speed run it (same cp usually, max ~300), you auto-waste as minimum ~20 minutes of time if you will leave it instantly, much more - if you won't.

I predict a lot of crying here, some for some reason won't like it, but objectively there will be Dungeon Finder as it is and just separate option for only max CP during each patch. Based on pure experience, % of maxed cp people that do *** in dungeons are much lower than % of others. And yes, there are good players even among cp200+, but they are ~20% maximum.

Apache_Kid

Seeing as how this would force them to update an interface it'll probably never happen. The dungeon finder is a grab bag. You never know what you're gonna get. Sucks but the thing doesn't work half the time anyways.

badmojo

That already exists, its called making a group yourself.

Dungeon finder is there to give all players a place to get into a group. If this change would make it so insted of waiting 5minutes for a group, a cp40 player would wait 30minutes then it is bad for the game. Also, it would hurt the progress of newer players by grouping more newer players together which would drag down the overall performance of the comminity. You would end up with players leveling up to 690 without ever having done dungeons correctly because they never got grouped with expierenced players who taught them the mechanics or called out their bad habits.

No, I dont think ZOS should build elitest mechanics into the dungeon finder.

jaschacasadiob16_ESO

I don't see the point of filtering people based on CP. The same happens in zone chats when they are creating successful trial groups asking for 600 points min. How many times you end up with someone that does around 9K dps and only does heavy attacks?

CP 690 only means you have 690 champion points to distribute. It says nothing about skills, gerar, knowledge. It does not even guarantee you have properl y spent those champion points.

Some titles, such as Boethiah;s Schyte or Flawless Conquerror are probably better signals than CP.

redspecter23

The dungeon finder is the LAST method anyone should ever use to run a dungeon. After checking in guild, zone and friends list, then move to dungeon finder, ideally to fill in one or 2 missing people to run the dungeon. Why people expect that dungeon finder and often actual game mechanics should be altered around a 4 man pug group is not something I'll ever understand. Use all the resources at your disposal to form the group instead of instantly expecting group finder to be something it can't possibly be.

Shantu

badmojo wrote: »

You would end up with players leveling up to 690 without ever having done dungeons correctly because they never got grouped with expierenced players who taught them the mechanics or called out their bad habits

There are groups like that? Its been my experience that these "experienced" players would much rather get pissed, hurl insults, and kick you rather than invest any time in being helpful. God forbid you do anything to hold back these butt heads because you're not as experienced as they are.

maniac4maniac

I would agree with most statements, if only Dungeons and Pledges (and so DF) weren't as dead as they are now compared to 1-2 years ago.

Try to find a group to lvl-up Undaunted if you for any reason make a new char nowadays. Or try to find a group for a non-pledge vet Dungeon.

redspecter23

maniac4maniac wrote: »

I would agree with most statements, if only Dungeons and Pledges (and so DF) weren't as dead as they are now compared to 1-2 years ago.

Try to find a group to lvl-up Undaunted if you for any reason make a new char nowadays. Or try to find a group for a non-pledge vet Dungeon.

If dungeons are dead, I blame ZOS. Over the past year they reduced the effectiveness of monster sets with at least 2 sets of sweeping nerfs, increased the health of dungeon mobs and especially bosses, nerfed player sustain and most recently added a miniscule amount of transmute gems to dungeons compared to pvp. The combination of all these things makes me wonder if ZOS even wants me to run dungeons for any reason other than leveling undaunted.

maniac4maniac

redspecter23 wrote: »

maniac4maniac wrote: »

I would agree with most statements, if only Dungeons and Pledges (and so DF) weren't as dead as they are now compared to 1-2 years ago.

Try to find a group to lvl-up Undaunted if you for any reason make a new char nowadays. Or try to find a group for a non-pledge vet Dungeon.

If dungeons are dead, I blame ZOS. Over the past year they reduced the effectiveness of monster sets with at least 2 sets of sweeping nerfs, increased the health of dungeon mobs and especially bosses, nerfed player sustain and most recently added a miniscule amount of transmute gems to dungeons compared to pvp. The combination of all these things makes me wonder if ZOS even wants me to run dungeons for any reason other than leveling undaunted.

That's kinda almost the only reason i run them now and the reason i hate to make any new character

badmojo

Shantu wrote: »

badmojo wrote: »

You would end up with players leveling up to 690 without ever having done dungeons correctly because they never got grouped with expierenced players who taught them the mechanics or called out their bad habits

There are groups like that? Its been my experience that these "experienced" players would much rather get pissed, hurl insults, and kick you rather than invest any time in being helpful. God forbid you do anything to hold back these butt heads because you're not as experienced as they are.

I have done many vet dungeons with the dungeon finder and I have yet to be kicked because of not knowing the mechanics or poor performance. Usually the expierenced players are more than willing to explain every detail of a fight we are having trouble with, sometimes they even like to explain every boss fight before attempting.

I have been farming vWGT lately and have only had one group where we all just left because it wasnt happening. If people are willing to listen and try to get better, I find a lot of players are more than happy to help them get through hard content.

But maybe I just get lucky when it comes to getting grouped. You milage may vary.

Mureel

I just think that if you're THAT uppity over your 690CP you have PLENTY of experience to handle it when someone has less.

(Unless one is a pompous arsenozzle but then that would be a whole other thing and the finder won't help!)

maniac4maniac

badmojo wrote: »

Shantu wrote: »

badmojo wrote: »

You would end up with players leveling up to 690 without ever having done dungeons correctly because they never got grouped with expierenced players who taught them the mechanics or called out their bad habits

There are groups like that? Its been my experience that these "experienced" players would much rather get pissed, hurl insults, and kick you rather than invest any time in being helpful. God forbid you do anything to hold back these butt heads because you're not as experienced as they are.

I have done many vet dungeons with the dungeon finder and I have yet to be kicked because of not knowing the mechanics or poor performance. Usually the expierenced players are more than willing to explain every detail of a fight we are having trouble with, sometimes they even like to explain every boss fight before attempting.

I have been farming vWGT lately and have only had one group where we all just left because it wasnt happening. If people are willing to listen and try to get better, I find a lot of players are more than happy to help them get through hard content.

But maybe I just get lucky when it comes to getting grouped. You milage may vary.

You was lucky, yes, and in the same time sometimes people want to just speed run, not explain, or no-death,etc, that's why such option will save both audience' time.

Mureel wrote: »

I just think that if you're THAT uppity over your 690CP you have PLENTY of experience to handle it when someone has less.

(Unless one is a pompous arsenozzle but then that would be a whole other thing and the finder won't help!)

I'm fine soloing most of the vet dungs that can be done solo, but you can't get no-death solo or speedrun solo in some of them and logically don't have time to explain that.

Near a ~1,5 years ago you could easily find a random group via dungeon finder for no-death / HM vet CoS, for example, has that several times. Nowadays - good luck trying that.

phileunderx2

Cp is a poor indicator of player performance. ..just saying

Reverb

maniac4maniac wrote: »

badmojo wrote: »

Shantu wrote: »

badmojo wrote: »

You would end up with players leveling up to 690 without ever having done dungeons correctly because they never got grouped with expierenced players who taught them the mechanics or called out their bad habits

There are groups like that? Its been my experience that these "experienced" players would much rather get pissed, hurl insults, and kick you rather than invest any time in being helpful. God forbid you do anything to hold back these butt heads because you're not as experienced as they are.

I have done many vet dungeons with the dungeon finder and I have yet to be kicked because of not knowing the mechanics or poor performance. Usually the expierenced players are more than willing to explain every detail of a fight we are having trouble with, sometimes they even like to explain every boss fight before attempting.

I have been farming vWGT lately and have only had one group where we all just left because it wasnt happening. If people are willing to listen and try to get better, I find a lot of players are more than happy to help them get through hard content.

But maybe I just get lucky when it comes to getting grouped. You milage may vary.

You was lucky, yes, and in the same time sometimes people want to just speed run, not explain, or no-death,etc, that's why such option will save both audience' time.

A pug is not for those people. If you want experience only, or are going for speed or no-death runs, you need to build a group yourself, with people who have the same goals and experience as you. Don't look to the groupfinder to narrow criteria you should be doing with guilds or friends lists. Random group = random results.

Dabulousness

Personally, I think part of the fun and sense of accomplishment comes from getting those particular achievements with DF. If people respond to me when I tell them what/how to do things, definitely don't mind the constant wipes. But that's just me.

coop500

CP 690+ people can suck too, heck lots of them suck even.

BlanketFort

@maniac4maniac why would you want to go for DLC challenge achievements (speedrun, HM, etc.) through dungeon finder? Most sane people would find 3 other players who meet their standards, group up, and smash things like the well-oiled killing machines that they are.

It’s rather silly to demand challenge achievement completions from a PuG.

notimetocare

maniac4maniac wrote: »

Add please such option, when you don't have people online currently willing to go right now to randon dung / vet for any reason, but you use Dungeon Finder and find a group of cp20-cp40 in your Vet WGT or people that run Vet pledges / n/v randoms to get XP for killing each mob there instead of speed run it (same cp usually, max ~300), you auto-waste as minimum ~20 minutes of time if you will leave it instantly, much more - if you won't.

I predict a lot of crying here, some for some reason won't like it, but objectively there will be Dungeon Finder as it is and just separate option for only max CP during each patch. Based on pure experience, % of maxed cp people that do *** in dungeons are much lower than % of others. And yes, there are good players even among cp200+, but they are ~20% maximum.

Bet half the population can play better that you without using their cp. No? I mean, why else u want a carry?

Only new DLC dungeons are harder with low cp players. There is no need for this change

escan

I have 625 Cp's right now and have never been in a Vet dungeon or trial. So the OP is wrong. It really depends on how the player plays his/her class. I'm sure there are people with much less CP then me and would out play me with little effort. I'm just now grouping in normal dungeons to get a feel of how to play my class in a group. I can solo most normal dungeons, but I don't know how to play my class in a group. So the OP's premise is wrong.

SoLooney

it is true. i see plenty of 600 plus cp doing absolute crap dps. they will just spam heavy light or heavy attacks. some dont even know what dots are and use a spammable until they run out of resources then mass heavy attack spam.

skyreach created way too many helpless scrubs aka skyreach babies and cant learn to carry their own weight

theres really no reason for me to pug dungeons as i dont need keys and i get crystals through pvp. and i save myself a lot of headaches through guildies

Ladislao

Why exactly 690cp? Maybe 1000cp? Or are you not experienced enough?

P.S. baited

Huyen

maniac4maniac wrote: »

Add please such option, when you don't have people online currently willing to go right now to randon dung / vet for any reason, but you use Dungeon Finder and find a group of cp20-cp40 in your Vet WGT or people that run Vet pledges / n/v randoms to get XP for killing each mob there instead of speed run it (same cp usually, max ~300), you auto-waste as minimum ~20 minutes of time if you will leave it instantly, much more - if you won't.

I predict a lot of crying here, some for some reason won't like it, but objectively there will be Dungeon Finder as it is and just separate option for only max CP during each patch. Based on pure experience, % of maxed cp people that do *** in dungeons are much lower than % of others. And yes, there are good players even among cp200+, but they are ~20% maximum.

And you think that 690cp+ players wont be crap? I want to live in your world then!

MaxwellC

@maniac4maniac
Honestly CP after 360 or 420 isn't what proves the players' own competency; If we were to get the 690CP+ dungeon option then we'd also need a competency reader because CP means nothing in regards to a players' own skill.

code65536

maniac4maniac wrote: »

Near a ~1,5 years ago you could easily find a random group via dungeon finder for no-death / HM vet CoS, for example, has that several times. Nowadays - good luck trying that.

LOL, I smell bovine excrement. vCoS hasn't even been out for 1.5 years. And when it came out, even pre-formed groups had trouble with getting no-death HM in vCoS. The group finder is leaps and bounds better now than what it was 1.5 years ago. But you still want a pre-formed group for DLC dungeon achievements--as it always has been.

O_LYKOS

So you're one of those players huh...ok...

maniac4maniac

code65536 wrote: »

maniac4maniac wrote: »

Near a ~1,5 years ago you could easily find a random group via dungeon finder for no-death / HM vet CoS, for example, has that several times. Nowadays - good luck trying that.

LOL, I smell bovine excrement. vCoS hasn't even been out for 1.5 years. And when it came out, even pre-formed groups had trouble with getting no-death HM in vCoS. The group finder is leaps and bounds better now than what it was 1.5 years ago. But you still want a pre-formed group for DLC dungeon achievements--as it always has been.

I'm happy for your preformed groups that failed vCoS / HM. Did it with several randoms and preformed groups many times. I was talking about ~1,5 years in terms of how easy it was to find a random dungeon. I know that vCoS came a bit later, i could screenshot the exact date, but it's not what you need but butheart

zaria

notimetocare wrote: »

maniac4maniac wrote: »

Add please such option, when you don't have people online currently willing to go right now to randon dung / vet for any reason, but you use Dungeon Finder and find a group of cp20-cp40 in your Vet WGT or people that run Vet pledges / n/v randoms to get XP for killing each mob there instead of speed run it (same cp usually, max ~300), you auto-waste as minimum ~20 minutes of time if you will leave it instantly, much more - if you won't.

I predict a lot of crying here, some for some reason won't like it, but objectively there will be Dungeon Finder as it is and just separate option for only max CP during each patch. Based on pure experience, % of maxed cp people that do *** in dungeons are much lower than % of others. And yes, there are good players even among cp200+, but they are ~20% maximum.

Bet half the population can play better that you without using their cp. No? I mean, why else u want a carry?

Only new DLC dungeons are harder with low cp players. There is no need for this change

This, and you need to be cp160 now to do the vet dlc.
Yes and cp160 is to low, an cp160 player is unlikely to have even cp 160 crafted / overland gear, an cp200 would.
Above cp400 it don't matter much neither, cp player skill and gear, yes an higher cp is likely to be more experienced and have better gear but not always.

Finally don't pug vet dlc. Ask in zone if you don't have an guild group.
Guild groups tend to be way more smooth, almost as normal versus vet dungeons.

Magdalina

I was gonna write something about how it's a bad idea but you know what...I'd like that option. You know why? To see and show people just how many cp 690 know NOTHING about the game, be it food, gear sets, rotations, bashing, shielding, not standing in red or whatever.

Cp is not the issue and if you were to get such function then you'd know exactly why it's not the issue.

Edit: Accidentally pressed enter too early>.<

Ruckly

It should be based on whether or not you have all gold gear and not cp lvl. If a player has all gold gear that will likely burn through the dungeon in record time.

Magdalina

Ruckly wrote: »

It should be based on whether or not you have all gold gear and not cp lvl. If a player has all gold gear that will likely burn through the dungeon in record time.

...what connection whatsoever is there between armor quality and skill/dungeon experience?o_O

Personally I've never golded out a full set. Meta changes to often for me to waste half a million gold on like ~20 spellpower improvement or whatever it is. I'm far from highest dps/best player but I do know veteran dungeons(with exception of latest dungeon dlc for now) far better than most people playing ESO.

On the contrary I know that some inexperienced players have unnecessarily golded out subpar gear without realizing the quality improvement wouldn't really help them.

Massive_Stain

Lol, skyreach has only amplified the entitled instant gratification mentality of being cp cap but not even being close to understanding the class you play as. Having a filter in gf would be ridiculous, and truly would expose a great many bad players to the top 1% who occasionally run gf (for something they may have accidentally deconned) for a key or two or to level undaunted.