So I am seeing a lot of fake tank hate...

josiahva

This is more just an observation. I play tanks for the most part, I have 3 different tanks I mainly play. I have my pure tank I use for difficult content, I have my DPS/Tank hybrid I use for normal dungeons and non-DLC vet dungeons, and I have a Warden healer/Tank hybrid that I just mess around on from time to time. I enjoy playing the support role for whatever reason. So I am quite amused with all the hate going around for fake tanks simply because under normal conditions I see no respect whatsoever for tanks(Yes, I am talking to you, you people who think their DPS is so awesome they go aggroing a mob before I can get there to position them correctly and keep them together causing them to scatter all over the room and making me waste resources grouping them back up). But, when real tanks become more scarce due to events like this...its these same people who want to kick fake tanks and cry about tanks that don't perform the role. The point being that if you want more people to tank, you need to show some respect for the role and not treat them as if they are superfluous, otherwise incompetent tanks will proliferate.

Samadhi

josiahva wrote: »

...So I am quite amused with all the hate going around for fake tanks simply because under normal conditions I see no respect whatsoever for tanks...

Really?
Have only been tanking for a couple of months
but regularly receive compliments after finished HM pledge runs
and got asked for advice on how to build a tank after running Vet Randoms in the event

duendology

Ehh from what I've seen tanks are absolutely essential. I don't feel "safe", if that makes sense, when no tank is around..just a bunch awesomely awesome dps toons obviously suffering from ADHD or.. diarrhea...and not paying attention to the rest of the group.

Huyen

I rolled tank because I suck at doing dps (figures) but the hate I get so far in dungeons is really making me wonder if I picked the right thing. People running around and pulling everything, and then go blaming me for their deaths for example. Or people dont giving a damn about the fact there is an actual tank this time. So unless the community turns around and accepts it, tanking will never be fully appreciated on both sides.

duendology

I too sometimes wonder if people anymore pay attention to the rules when entering a group campaign. If I enter as dps.. I make sure to do damage (and sustain myself) keep away from direct damage... and not run like crazy towards the boss with a war song on my lips (and die) haha

josiahva

Samadhi wrote: »

josiahva wrote: »

...So I am quite amused with all the hate going around for fake tanks simply because under normal conditions I see no respect whatsoever for tanks...

Really?
Have only been tanking for a couple of months
but regularly receive compliments after finished HM pledge runs
and got asked for advice on how to build a tank after running Vet Randoms in the event

True enough, it was an exaggeration. There are some who respect tanks, but more often than not(especially in non-DLC dungeons) I see DPS trying to superman a dungeon, simply not stopping to think their actions make life infinitely more difficult for the tank.

jaschacasadiob16_ESO

Well, people running ahead without waiting for others to loot or do the quests deserve nothing. I take my time, really. If they die, its their problem. I have all the no deaths achievements already anyway. Those people shouldn't really complain. If they do, I tell them not to run ahead like that if they can't afford it.

As for fake tanks, I don't mind if you are not a real tank, as long as you don't go down in a hit when facing the Lava Queen or something similar. Not that I do care about you dying. It's just annoying wasting time and gold in repairs because of you cheating the queue system.

Of course, by queueing up as something you are not, thus cheating the system you are disrespecting people. I wish there was an option to blacklist those people that goes beyond PSN (which has a max length), preventing them from being grouped with me again. You see, that would help a lot solving the problem. At some point you fake cheater would end up waiting a lot of time to enter a dungeon, no matters your role.

Spacemonkey

blackheart haven (well pirate skelly dungeon, i think thats the one) on vet. 3rd boss has a random range one hit-ability that barely tickled me and our tank, but kept oneshotting the two dpses.

so we jsut chose to stop reviving them after like the tenth time (somewhat to their request I must say, repair costs lol)


The boss literaly barely dmged us. But took forever to kill... (tank + healer). Id like to point out I barely needed to do any healing at all.

But yeah. DPS are so l33t. Because of DPS we have bosses with crazy health pools, half the dungeons with harder mechanics are dps races. -.- death to dpses.

Alpheu5

Samadhi wrote: »

josiahva wrote: »

...So I am quite amused with all the hate going around for fake tanks simply because under normal conditions I see no respect whatsoever for tanks...

Really?
Have only been tanking for a couple of months
but regularly receive compliments after finished HM pledge runs
and got asked for advice on how to build a tank after running Vet Randoms in the event

I'd like to know what utopic population you play with. Just like healing, it's a thankless task for the most part that some people underestimate the importance of.

Spacemonkey wrote: »

blackheart haven (well pirate skelly dungeon, i think thats the one) on vet. 3rd boss has a random range one hit-ability that barely tickled me and our tank, but kept oneshotting the two dpses.

so we jsut chose to stop reviving them after like the tenth time (somewhat to their request I must say, repair costs lol)


The boss literaly barely dmged us. But took forever to kill... (tank + healer). Id like to point out I barely needed to do any healing at all.

But yeah. DPS are so l33t. Because of DPS we have bosses with crazy health pools, half the dungeons with harder mechanics are dps races. -.- death to dpses.

In this case, it is the tank's fault that the DPS died, not the DPS. You're supposed to bash that attack when he starts to charge it up, otherwise, yes, it's entirely likely to kill you in 1 shot.

bhagwad

Alpheu5 wrote: »

Samadhi wrote: »

josiahva wrote: »

...So I am quite amused with all the hate going around for fake tanks simply because under normal conditions I see no respect whatsoever for tanks...

Really?
Have only been tanking for a couple of months
but regularly receive compliments after finished HM pledge runs
and got asked for advice on how to build a tank after running Vet Randoms in the event

I'd like to know what utopic population you play with. Just like healing, it's a thankless task for the most part that some people underestimate the importance of.

Spacemonkey wrote: »

blackheart haven (well pirate skelly dungeon, i think thats the one) on vet. 3rd boss has a random range one hit-ability that barely tickled me and our tank, but kept oneshotting the two dpses.

so we jsut chose to stop reviving them after like the tenth time (somewhat to their request I must say, repair costs lol)


The boss literaly barely dmged us. But took forever to kill... (tank + healer). Id like to point out I barely needed to do any healing at all.

But yeah. DPS are so l33t. Because of DPS we have bosses with crazy health pools, half the dungeons with harder mechanics are dps races. -.- death to dpses.

In this case, it is the tank's fault that the DPS died, not the DPS. You're supposed to bash that attack when he starts to charge it up, otherwise, yes, it's entirely likely to kill you in 1 shot.

It's not thankless at all. Just consider everything a full fledged tank does:

Taunts important targets
Holds them STILL
Faces them away from group
Chains in adds, often trivializing boss fights
Immobilizes adds in a group for easy DPS
Continuous warhorns every minute
Solid debuffs with weakening and crushing enchants
Regular shields for the whole group every few seconds!
Extra health for the group if running ebon

There are some fights, where a tank carries the entire show on their shoulders like the titan in CoA II where the tank grabs the two flame atronachs and single handedly drags them away from the group so they can DPS the boss in peace.

Or on the planer inhibitor fight, when the tank can just hold the boss STILL right up to the blue phase. Thank you!

Or Bloodroot Forge, whether it's standing on the volcanoes, or keeping aggro of all three final bosses. Thank you!

Or Falkreath hold with the minotaurs. And with the 3rd skeleton boss. I'd like to see 4 DPS'ers do that!

I mean seriously, any decent group will appreciate you. Most of these activities are so obvious, that everyone will be thanking their stars if they get a competent tank.

Samadhi

Alpheu5 wrote: »

Samadhi wrote: »

josiahva wrote: »

...So I am quite amused with all the hate going around for fake tanks simply because under normal conditions I see no respect whatsoever for tanks...

Really?
Have only been tanking for a couple of months
but regularly receive compliments after finished HM pledge runs
and got asked for advice on how to build a tank after running Vet Randoms in the event

I'd like to know what utopic population you play with. Just like healing, it's a thankless task for the most part that some people underestimate the importance of.
...

PC/NA, just using the dungeon finder
did not think it to be utopian--
group members being polite and saying things like 'that was some great tanking at the end' or 'dank tank' or 'dats a good ass tank yall'
does not strike me as particularly unusual?

Personally make a point of thanking my group at the end of each dungeon,
anything that makes me a 'good tank' makes it a mind-numbing slog to try and do things on my own
DPS party members are of significant importance to me

kind of ignore the healer, as it is my sentiment that it is my job to keep myself alive and his or her job to keep the damage players alive
when playing healer, tanks that wipe without me babysitting them frustrate me,
so try to make my healer's job easier and let them just worry about the squishies and resource management

phileunderx2

I'm always happy to see a real tank in any dungeon I run.

LeagueTroll

Yeah, like i have to bring my real tank to waste time with bunch sub 20k dps potatoes.

Tan9oSuccka

It’s generally a thankless job being a proper tank. I’ll take my two keys and be on my way.

Every once in a while an appreciative whisper happens.

Alpheu5

bhagwad wrote: »

Alpheu5 wrote: »

Samadhi wrote: »

josiahva wrote: »

...So I am quite amused with all the hate going around for fake tanks simply because under normal conditions I see no respect whatsoever for tanks...

Really?
Have only been tanking for a couple of months
but regularly receive compliments after finished HM pledge runs
and got asked for advice on how to build a tank after running Vet Randoms in the event

I'd like to know what utopic population you play with. Just like healing, it's a thankless task for the most part that some people underestimate the importance of.

Spacemonkey wrote: »

blackheart haven (well pirate skelly dungeon, i think thats the one) on vet. 3rd boss has a random range one hit-ability that barely tickled me and our tank, but kept oneshotting the two dpses.

so we jsut chose to stop reviving them after like the tenth time (somewhat to their request I must say, repair costs lol)


The boss literaly barely dmged us. But took forever to kill... (tank + healer). Id like to point out I barely needed to do any healing at all.

But yeah. DPS are so l33t. Because of DPS we have bosses with crazy health pools, half the dungeons with harder mechanics are dps races. -.- death to dpses.

In this case, it is the tank's fault that the DPS died, not the DPS. You're supposed to bash that attack when he starts to charge it up, otherwise, yes, it's entirely likely to kill you in 1 shot.

It's not thankless at all. Just consider everything a full fledged tank does:

Taunts important targets
Holds them STILL
Faces them away from group
Chains in adds, often trivializing boss fights
Immobilizes adds in a group for easy DPS
Continuous warhorns every minute
Solid debuffs with weakening and crushing enchants
Regular shields for the whole group every few seconds!
Extra health for the group if running ebon

There are some fights, where a tank carries the entire show on their shoulders like the titan in CoA II where the tank grabs the two flame atronachs and single handedly drags them away from the group so they can DPS the boss in peace.

Or on the planer inhibitor fight, when the tank can just hold the boss STILL right up to the blue phase. Thank you!

Or Bloodroot Forge, whether it's standing on the volcanoes, or keeping aggro of all three final bosses. Thank you!

Or Falkreath hold with the minotaurs. And with the 3rd skeleton boss. I'd like to see 4 DPS'ers do that!

I mean seriously, any decent group will appreciate you. Most of these activities are so obvious, that everyone will be thanking their stars if they get a competent tank.

Key words being "decent group". Decent groups are by far in the minority when it comes to the veteran dungeon finder. Yes, there are times where you get lucky and everybody knows how to do their role and everybody is thankful to each other for that, but for the most part you end up with people who don't understand the impact everything beyond "Taunts important targets" has on the fight and so assume it's just a thing every tank does. Same thing goes for SPC/Worm healers with orbs/shards, ele drain, etc., and DPS that pull 30k+, stay out of the AOEs, and rez if they're needed.

I don't need the bards to sing ballads about my exploits through veteran Fungal Grotto I, but I definitely think that the value of a good tank in random queues is lost on a lot of people.

Samadhi wrote: »

PC/NA, just using the dungeon finder
did not think it to be utopian--
group members being polite and saying things like 'that was some great tanking at the end' or 'dank tank' or 'dats a good ass tank yall'
does not strike me as particularly unusual?

Personally make a point of thanking my group at the end of each dungeon,
anything that makes me a 'good tank' makes it a mind-numbing slog to try and do things on my own
DPS party members are of significant importance to me

kind of ignore the healer, as it is my sentiment that it is my job to keep myself alive and his or her job to keep the damage players alive
when playing healer, tanks that wipe without me babysitting them frustrate me,
so try to make my healer's job easier and let them just worry about the squishies and resource management

Then you've been way more fortunate than I. In over a year of tanking, the only compliment I've ever gotten from a random was spending 3 minutes rezzing the healer on vet Chudan within execute range to prevent a wipe and getting told "dal mvp" by one of the DPS.

Jade1986

Solution to fake tank hate, people stop queuing as tank if not tank.

Sarjako

josiahva wrote: »

This is more just an observation. I play tanks for the most part, I have 3 different tanks I mainly play. I have my pure tank I use for difficult content, I have my DPS/Tank hybrid I use for normal dungeons and non-DLC vet dungeons, and I have a Warden healer/Tank hybrid that I just mess around on from time to time. I enjoy playing the support role for whatever reason. So I am quite amused with all the hate going around for fake tanks simply because under normal conditions I see no respect whatsoever for tanks(Yes, I am talking to you, you people who think their DPS is so awesome they go aggroing a mob before I can get there to position them correctly and keep them together causing them to scatter all over the room and making me waste resources grouping them back up). But, when real tanks become more scarce due to events like this...its these same people who want to kick fake tanks and cry about tanks that don't perform the role. The point being that if you want more people to tank, you need to show some respect for the role and not treat them as if they are superfluous, otherwise incompetent tanks will proliferate.

That's a very strange way to put it. Sounds like you should have created two different topics entirely.

1. If you're not a tank, and you don't have a taunt... GTFO. I waited for my queue, you should wait for yours. Especially considering if we had a tank, our group wouldn't have wiped even ONE time. You waste my TIME and my GOLD.

2. I respect tanks. Normal dungeons are a bit different. If the tank isn't obviously grouping ads I'll start taking aggro and lay down my 4x or 5x AOEs and burn down the pack.. but I ALSO take aggro and accountability when I die.

Sarjako

Huyen wrote: »

I rolled tank because I suck at doing dps (figures) but the hate I get so far in dungeons is really making me wonder if I picked the right thing. People running around and pulling everything, and then go blaming me for their deaths for example. Or people dont giving a damn about the fact there is an actual tank this time. So unless the community turns around and accepts it, tanking will never be fully appreciated on both sides.

Hehe. Yeah... humans. They suck don't they?

Runefang

I must live in an alternative reality where even if we are doing terrible as a group, everybody is still mute. No insults, just the endless void.

And getting compliments lol! If you do your job passably or brilliantly nobody will notice. If you turn that daedroth so he burns your group, that they notice

Hurtfan

Chicks dig the DPS...just the way it is, sorry.

Runefang

Jade1986 wrote: »

Solution to fake tank hate, people stop queuing as tank if not tank.

Your solution creates problems. The queue for normal dungeons is now twice as long.

And those that are 'real' tanks, are crap more often than 'fake' tanks are.

Acrolas

You don't really know which random you're going to get. If the roles are consistent, the dungeon is the only real variable.

You might luck out and get a high-CP DPS in a tank or healer slot. Which doesn't always help, but it's better than getting anything below level 20 in a tank or healer slot when they're not built to do either.

I think the real problem is that you're not really geared or conditioned for group content until about level 30. By then you have some advanced skills and you've patched the vulnerabilities in your character. You know how different traits affect your character's stats and started choosing role-appropriate gear. You've chosen a mundus stone outside of your first map.

But for whatever reason, ZOS is so afraid to lose players that level 30 is practically veteran status at this point. They'd rather have level 11 healers in dungeons spamming light bow attacks for the entire run, if that level 11 stays long enough to buy a hat. Their sell-to-noobs mentality is why most people probably prefer guild grouping over random grouping. I knew if I pre-grouped I'd have smoother runs. But I went 100% random for the event, just to see how the other side lives.

Let's just say I didn't see a whole lot of hats, just a lot of *** hats.

zaria

You rarely get compliments for that you do in pugs, exceptions is then you come in on last boss and saves the day people are happy, also then group mastering hard content they had problems doing.
Tank and healer got praised in an nAS run who was an catastrophe for us DD, I used most of my time rezzing other knowing my dps was low but I managed to stay alive more than most.

However pulling all the trash up to boss so you can AoE them down fast is awesome,

Osteos

josiahva wrote: »

This is more just an observation. I play tanks for the most part, I have 3 different tanks I mainly play. I have my pure tank I use for difficult content, I have my DPS/Tank hybrid I use for normal dungeons and non-DLC vet dungeons, and I have a Warden healer/Tank hybrid that I just mess around on from time to time. I enjoy playing the support role for whatever reason. So I am quite amused with all the hate going around for fake tanks simply because under normal conditions I see no respect whatsoever for tanks(Yes, I am talking to you, you people who think their DPS is so awesome they go aggroing a mob before I can get there to position them correctly and keep them together causing them to scatter all over the room and making me waste resources grouping them back up). But, when real tanks become more scarce due to events like this...its these same people who want to kick fake tanks and cry about tanks that don't perform the role. The point being that if you want more people to tank, you need to show some respect for the role and not treat them as if they are superfluous, otherwise incompetent tanks will proliferate.

That is undoubtedly the most annoying thing and people do it all the time. Let me group them into a nice pile so you can aoe them down quickly!

Having a good tank just makes all the difference. Let your tanks tank.

Girl_Number8

josiahva wrote: »

This is more just an observation. I play tanks for the most part, I have 3 different tanks I mainly play. I have my pure tank I use for difficult content, I have my DPS/Tank hybrid I use for normal dungeons and non-DLC vet dungeons, and I have a Warden healer/Tank hybrid that I just mess around on from time to time. I enjoy playing the support role for whatever reason. So I am quite amused with all the hate going around for fake tanks simply because under normal conditions I see no respect whatsoever for tanks(Yes, I am talking to you, you people who think their DPS is so awesome they go aggroing a mob before I can get there to position them correctly and keep them together causing them to scatter all over the room and making me waste resources grouping them back up). But, when real tanks become more scarce due to events like this...its these same people who want to kick fake tanks and cry about tanks that don't perform the role. The point being that if you want more people to tank, you need to show some respect for the role and not treat them as if they are superfluous, otherwise incompetent tanks will proliferate.

They could start by stop asking for nerfs that make tankys suck.

Samadhi

Alpheu5 wrote: »

Samadhi wrote: »

PC/NA, just using the dungeon finder
did not think it to be utopian--
group members being polite and saying things like 'that was some great tanking at the end' or 'dank tank' or 'dats a good ass tank yall'
does not strike me as particularly unusual?

Personally make a point of thanking my group at the end of each dungeon,
anything that makes me a 'good tank' makes it a mind-numbing slog to try and do things on my own
DPS party members are of significant importance to me

kind of ignore the healer, as it is my sentiment that it is my job to keep myself alive and his or her job to keep the damage players alive
when playing healer, tanks that wipe without me babysitting them frustrate me,
so try to make my healer's job easier and let them just worry about the squishies and resource management

Then you've been way more fortunate than I. In over a year of tanking, the only compliment I've ever gotten from a random was spending 3 minutes rezzing the healer on vet Chudan within execute range to prevent a wipe and getting told "dal mvp" by one of the DPS.

now you have made me all self-conscious that people are *** with me or something
got compliment in Vet Fungal 1
on the first day of the event
do not even recall doing anything special, we just had a relatively quick solid run

had even been thinking about posting about it in one of the prize threads, as it perked me up after mild disappointment
from an Undaunted Plunder box Q_Q

Girl_Number8

bhagwad wrote: »

Alpheu5 wrote: »

Samadhi wrote: »

josiahva wrote: »

...So I am quite amused with all the hate going around for fake tanks simply because under normal conditions I see no respect whatsoever for tanks...

Really?
Have only been tanking for a couple of months
but regularly receive compliments after finished HM pledge runs
and got asked for advice on how to build a tank after running Vet Randoms in the event

I'd like to know what utopic population you play with. Just like healing, it's a thankless task for the most part that some people underestimate the importance of.

Spacemonkey wrote: »

blackheart haven (well pirate skelly dungeon, i think thats the one) on vet. 3rd boss has a random range one hit-ability that barely tickled me and our tank, but kept oneshotting the two dpses.

so we jsut chose to stop reviving them after like the tenth time (somewhat to their request I must say, repair costs lol)


The boss literaly barely dmged us. But took forever to kill... (tank + healer). Id like to point out I barely needed to do any healing at all.

But yeah. DPS are so l33t. Because of DPS we have bosses with crazy health pools, half the dungeons with harder mechanics are dps races. -.- death to dpses.

In this case, it is the tank's fault that the DPS died, not the DPS. You're supposed to bash that attack when he starts to charge it up, otherwise, yes, it's entirely likely to kill you in 1 shot.

It's not thankless at all. Just consider everything a full fledged tank does:

Taunts important targets
Holds them STILL
Faces them away from group
Chains in adds, often trivializing boss fights
Immobilizes adds in a group for easy DPS
Continuous warhorns every minute
Solid debuffs with weakening and crushing enchants
Regular shields for the whole group every few seconds!
Extra health for the group if running ebon

There are some fights, where a tank carries the entire show on their shoulders like the titan in CoA II where the tank grabs the two flame atronachs and single handedly drags them away from the group so they can DPS the boss in peace.

Or on the planer inhibitor fight, when the tank can just hold the boss STILL right up to the blue phase. Thank you!

Or Bloodroot Forge, whether it's standing on the volcanoes, or keeping aggro of all three final bosses. Thank you!

Or Falkreath hold with the minotaurs. And with the 3rd skeleton boss. I'd like to see 4 DPS'ers do that!

I mean seriously, any decent group will appreciate you. Most of these activities are so obvious, that everyone will be thanking their stars if they get a competent tank.

Very well put

Amadis001

jaschacasadiob16_ESO wrote: »

As for fake tanks, I don't mind if you are not a real tank, as long as you don't go down in a hit when facing the Lava Queen or something similar. Not that I do care about you dying. It's just annoying wasting time and gold in repairs because of you cheating the queue system.

If you don't care about fake tanks, then you don't know what your tank is doing for you. When I join on my tank:

* I know every dungeon and every boss mechanic. I will lead the team into battle and keep us organized and effective.
* my Ebon gives every member of the team an extra 1100 health.
* My pierce armor attack not only taunts the boss but applies both Major Fracture and Major Breach.
* The crusher enchant on my sword further reduces their resistances.
* My Talons and Chains mean that I will immobilize mobs and pull the stragglers into your AOEs.
* My Bloodspawn and Werewolf armor mean that you get Warhorns for days, giving everyone on the team an extra 10% magicka, stamina and heath, not to mention Major Force, which increases your crit damage 15%.
* My sturdy armor and shield-play glyphs mean that I can keep my block up close to 100%. Without worrying about dying, I can pay more intention to providing off-heals with my Vigor, taunting troubling adds and doing other things to keep _you_ alive.
* With my igneous shield and hardened armor, I can not only survive everything that would 1-hit anyone else, but I can buff up enough to revive a dead teammate in situations where no other member of the team could do it without dying.
* With my experience, I can position every boss to deliver their conal damage and direct attacks _away_ from you. And I will keep him in your AOEs as long as you need me to.

Whereas your fake tank:

* sometimes taunts the boss and manages not to run you over with him.

So why is anyone OK with a fake tank?

cazlonb16_ESO

Now picture a tank that's not a DK...And half of these bullet points fall flat already.

Dracofyre

devs need to take away one-shot kills ability, it wrong on many ways. that reason why too many players blaming and not all may have done right. dps were suppose to clear adds first while tanks should hold the boss to keep group alive.
if the dps were just bombing at the boss way too much, tank lose aggroes and harder to taunt it back.

i think those dont follow and they are "GREEDY" and too Egomaniac, instead they should support the tanks, it was intend to back off and deal with adds as long they dont pull the boss or risk getting one-shotted if too much.

Amadis001

cazlonb16_ESO wrote: »

Now picture a tank that's not a DK...And half of these bullet points fall flat already.

A couple of them do, sure. But they are not the most important ones. I happen to play a DK but when I am not tanking, on one of my alts, I have been matched with some great non-DK tanks from whom I have learned a great deal about how to tank better.