Fake Tank Psychology?

THWIP71

ZOS_MikaS wrote: »

We have recently removed a few off-topic posts from this thread. Please be sure to keep this discussion civil and constructive.

There was nothing wrong with what I posted, yet you deleted it.

DeathHouseInc

Taylor_MB wrote: »

Friggin forums obsessed with fake tanks right now.

Roll a tank yourself (not you, OP, just in general). The only way to fix fake tanks and lack of tanks in group finder is for you to be a tank yourself.

Oh so you mean the trinity really isn't all that good and many of the older games had it right?

NordSwordnBoard

Psychology? Hang your weapons next to the door, and have a seat on the couch...

[img][/img]via Imgflip Meme Generator

Ruckly

Grobull the Transmuted. Every dungeon should open with this boss.

Jpk0012

I think too many people are confused by a fake tank. Its an idiot that continuously dies, ping pongs the boss causing loss of dps, makes the dungeon last longer than necessary, and causes the healer to babysit them.

Those of you claiming you're a fake tank then enter a dungeon and destroy it... wtf.. you're not a fake tank. You tanked, you didn't die, you increased efficiency. As a healer, I will gladly, babysit a murderous dps. I will not babysit some idiot putting out less dps than my healer build.

Jpk0012

Ruckly wrote: »

Grobull the Transmuted. Every dungeon should open with this boss.

I would really love to see a tough boss at or near the entrance. If ya can't handle that, just disband.

Berenhir

Healers and tanks are completely useless in normal dungeon runs of experienced people.

Grimm13

Recremen wrote: »

Cazzy wrote: »

Is there a big problem with fake tanks atm? I keep seeing threads but have only really just returned to ESO...

@Cazzy Due to the giveaway event there's (apparently) been a small uptick in people setting their dungeon finder roles to jobs they are not actually equiped to fill, so they can get as many alts through the group finder per day as possible and get the highest chance of winning nice things. This is mostly a non-issue since people tend to spam normal mode dungeons for the prizes and you can legit light-attack through a lot of normal dungeons, but then sometimes you get something like a Bloodroot Forge and all of a sudden a tank who can't hold aggro or take a hit becomes way more significant of a problem. That specific scenario happened to me today, but thankfully our fake tank left in a huff and we got a replacement who, you know, actually had a taunt on his bar.

I have been mainly a solo player so my characters have been built along those lines. Never ran a dungeon before this event. Tried tanking as a last resort for some guild members to make a group. My Templar is not the best tank on holding agro but can take the hits and self heal. Ran more dungeons all in normal mode so I could learn more, worked on tweaking my build.

How many others were like me? Probably a good number. I do want to say that, if you are a maxed CP character wielding a frost staff you better expect that you are gonna pull the agro from the tank at times or maybe more. Look at your builds, understand what it does, realize that we try to hold things in favor of our rolls but RNG sometimes does it's own thing.

Kolzki

If you can't spare a skill point on a taunt then you probably shouldn't be listing as a tank. Sure, among friends it's fine. But in group finder if you list as a tank without a taunt and your pug is dying then it's your fault.

Otherwise at least have the decency to stand still and take a beating so the groups AOEs hit their mark

Runefang

Jpk0012 wrote: »

Ruckly wrote: »

Grobull the Transmuted. Every dungeon should open with this boss.

I would really love to see a tough boss at or near the entrance. If ya can't handle that, just disband.

Prepare for a ton more frustrated groups if that ever happens.

Amadis001

raj72616a wrote: »

Cazzy wrote: »

Is there a big problem with fake tanks atm? I keep seeing threads but have only really just returned to ESO...

no they are just being dumb.

Says the fake tank.

Flameheart

Jpk0012 wrote: »

Ruckly wrote: »

Grobull the Transmuted. Every dungeon should open with this boss.

I would really love to see a tough boss at or near the entrance. If ya can't handle that, just disband.

This or Gaymne Bandu in FG 2. Best dps and build tests ever. Grobull even checks not just dps it checks sustain and your general build too and not just the DDs are in demand. As a stamina DD I just hate healers there who never heard anything about support (bubbles/shards). As a magicka DD with a lightning staff it's pretty simple and easy. In addition I hate players who run around with parts of the trash pack so you can't do proper AoE on all of them. A tank who does taunt a few of the adds (the big ones) and keeps them in place with the rest is not necessary but helpful.

heartburnkid

Fake tank that melts everything and we complete the dungeon in 5 min? Or a balanced group of low level trash dps that take forever? Give me the fake tank any day.

I tank, dps, and heal (every toon is dedicated to the roles I choose for them) and tanking needs some serious work. With an extremely limited taunt selection of moves (all single target) it makes tanking a bore. Give more options and for f’s sake a few group pulls (3-4 people pulls) to balance it out. Why can’t chains morph from a single to a quad pull? Every other mmo has this. Make tanking fun to play and make me feel like anything but a single target tank with the same weapon every other tank has and you may have people playing the role more.

Variety, devs, variety.

Maura_Neysa

Runefang wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Mojmir wrote: »

Your welcome for the easy completion- dps who queue'd as a tank

Can I send you the bill for the extra frustration I feel on my healers when the boss is in my face and I have to hold aggro on top of healing you and the rest of the party?

I just had a fake tank yell at a DPS for dragging the boss out of AOEs, when the DPS felt he had to run away from the boss aggroed on him. Sure, my healer could have healed that DPS if he'd just stood still, but after the nerve of a fake tank yelling at a DPS for not keeping the boss still, I'm in no mood to be charitable.

YOU might get an easy completion. Your groupmates have NO such guarantee if you don't hold 100% aggro with your amazing DPS. Which I've seen happen as often as a blue moon.

Honestly a decent fake-tank will slot a taunt, at least for the tough bosses. Mini-bosses are usually dead so fast that it doesn't matter.

And I've rarely had an issue with a fake-tank, either being one or running with one. My experiences with them is overwhelmingly positive, yet people like to whine about them. In comparison its about 1 in 4 runs where I have 2 bad DDs at once.

The fact that 90% of my real tank ques are into half completed dungeons, I think your math is a little off.

I regularly que for both level randoms, taking which ever pops, because I like the challenge of dragging the Pee Wee League through the dungeon they are not ready for.

zaria

Maura_Neysa wrote: »

Runefang wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Mojmir wrote: »

Your welcome for the easy completion- dps who queue'd as a tank

Can I send you the bill for the extra frustration I feel on my healers when the boss is in my face and I have to hold aggro on top of healing you and the rest of the party?

I just had a fake tank yell at a DPS for dragging the boss out of AOEs, when the DPS felt he had to run away from the boss aggroed on him. Sure, my healer could have healed that DPS if he'd just stood still, but after the nerve of a fake tank yelling at a DPS for not keeping the boss still, I'm in no mood to be charitable.

YOU might get an easy completion. Your groupmates have NO such guarantee if you don't hold 100% aggro with your amazing DPS. Which I've seen happen as often as a blue moon.

Honestly a decent fake-tank will slot a taunt, at least for the tough bosses. Mini-bosses are usually dead so fast that it doesn't matter.

And I've rarely had an issue with a fake-tank, either being one or running with one. My experiences with them is overwhelmingly positive, yet people like to whine about them. In comparison its about 1 in 4 runs where I have 2 bad DDs at once.

The fact that 90% of my real tank ques are into half completed dungeons, I think your math is a little off.

I regularly que for both level randoms, taking which ever pops, because I like the challenge of dragging the Pee Wee League through the dungeon they are not ready for.

Who dungens did you get most on tanks?

Jade1986

Cazzy wrote: »

Is there a big problem with fake tanks atm? I keep seeing threads but have only really just returned to ESO...

The event brought in a locust plague of fake tanks and healers. It was beyond frustrating.

zaria

Jade1986 wrote: »

Cazzy wrote: »

Is there a big problem with fake tanks atm? I keep seeing threads but have only really just returned to ESO...

The event brought in a locust plague of fake tanks and healers. It was beyond frustrating.

No queue as DD however. Just hope the new standard don't carry into veteran dungeons,

Mettaricana

This alone i will be a tank thats right

VaranisArano

heartburnkid wrote: »

Fake tank that melts everything and we complete the dungeon in 5 min? Or a balanced group of low level trash dps that take forever? Give me the fake tank any day.

I tank, dps, and heal (every toon is dedicated to the roles I choose for them) and tanking needs some serious work. With an extremely limited taunt selection of moves (all single target) it makes tanking a bore. Give more options and for f’s sake a few group pulls (3-4 people pulls) to balance it out. Why can’t chains morph from a single to a quad pull? Every other mmo has this. Make tanking fun to play and make me feel like anything but a single target tank with the same weapon every other tank has and you may have people playing the role more.

Variety, devs, variety.

There's a quad pull. Its the Shackle synergy to the DK Standard ultimate.

krachall

Best group we found for random normals where at least one member was under level 50 was 4 DPS. Bosses die so fast that no one has a chance to die. The lowbies are scaled up to 30k hit points anyway so they're fine even if they manage to get aggro during the fight.

But, as I posted in another thread, a level 10 character with a sword, shield, and puncture slotted is MORE than capable of tanking any dungeon the random finder would place his group in. It's not that big of a deal.

Flameheart

krachall wrote: »

Best group we found for random normals where at least one member was under level 50 was 4 DPS. Bosses die so fast that no one has a chance to die. The lowbies are scaled up to 30k hit points anyway so they're fine even if they manage to get aggro during the fight.

But, as I posted in another thread, a level 10 character with a sword, shield, and puncture slotted is MORE than capable of tanking any dungeon the random finder would place his group in. It's not that big of a deal.

Normal is pure "Play as you want", vet is different. You may play many vet dungeons with 3 DDs + Healer or 3 DDs + tank (actually I prefer the later option if at all), but the issue with that is:

-> many players just can't do it. The number of people on the forums who claim this might be the best options is highly misleading to the count of players I watch being able to actually do this ingame. DDs die a lot because fights still last too long even with 3 DDs (I call that the "I-hide-my-bad-dps-in-3-DD-groups-effect") and especially healers die a lot because they aren't used to deal with adds.

-> I still need to find the 3 DD PUG, that would ever beat a trinity guild group or even trinity PUG with all above average players. People just assume that a 3 DD group is faster, but if not well excuted it is slower because of dying healers, or 3 DDs who can't even do 75% of that what 2 good DDs can do or the fake tank issue again and a "tank" running around like a headless chicken and moving everything out of ground dots.

K0rpeN

yeah those fake tanks that do 50% of the dps and 50% of the healing in a normal dungeon. Can we talk about fake dds and fake healers too?

zyk

ESO is a DPS-centric game. Unlike other MMOs, most wipes come from poor DPS, not bad tanking or healing. The solution to most problems in ESO PVE is more DPS.

I'd much rather get a fake tank who can DPS well than a real tank who doesn't DPS at all. No offense to the tanks out there, but outside of Trial content -- which I know little about -- tanks should be contributing DPS in ESO. Healers too.

The smoothest runs I had with pugs during the event were groups in which everyone could DPS decently.

For the record, I have only queued in as a DPS. However, I have no problem with anyone queuing in as Tank or Healer with a fundamentally DPS build, as long as they can perform the role.

Flameheart

zyk wrote: »

The smoothest runs I had with pugs during the event were groups in which everyone could DPS decently.

Actually I agree to the bad dps thing, but I don't think that stacking another (bad ?) dps is the solution for the issue. The smoothest (and fastest) PUGs I had, were trinity groups with experienced players with tank and healer delivering the full buff and support sortiment (almost 100% warhorn uptime in boss fights for example ) + 2 DDs who know what they do.

The later groups were such chilling that you should imagine someone sitting at his PC drinking a cup of hot tea while jogging to the next boss/trash group with a big smile on the face and while having a look on the 70k+ group dps combat metrix score from the last boss and a nice 50% cut for my DD.

Maura_Neysa

zaria wrote: »

Maura_Neysa wrote: »

Runefang wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Mojmir wrote: »

Your welcome for the easy completion- dps who queue'd as a tank

Can I send you the bill for the extra frustration I feel on my healers when the boss is in my face and I have to hold aggro on top of healing you and the rest of the party?

I just had a fake tank yell at a DPS for dragging the boss out of AOEs, when the DPS felt he had to run away from the boss aggroed on him. Sure, my healer could have healed that DPS if he'd just stood still, but after the nerve of a fake tank yelling at a DPS for not keeping the boss still, I'm in no mood to be charitable.

YOU might get an easy completion. Your groupmates have NO such guarantee if you don't hold 100% aggro with your amazing DPS. Which I've seen happen as often as a blue moon.

Honestly a decent fake-tank will slot a taunt, at least for the tough bosses. Mini-bosses are usually dead so fast that it doesn't matter.

And I've rarely had an issue with a fake-tank, either being one or running with one. My experiences with them is overwhelmingly positive, yet people like to whine about them. In comparison its about 1 in 4 runs where I have 2 bad DDs at once.

The fact that 90% of my real tank ques are into half completed dungeons, I think your math is a little off.

I regularly que for both level randoms, taking which ever pops, because I like the challenge of dragging the Pee Wee League through the dungeon they are not ready for.

Who dungens did you get most on tanks?

@zaria in the last month or two. BC2(last), Vollenfell(last), Direfrost(last), WGT x3(Planer/Kena/Atro before 1st boss all on vet), Maz x2(Xal/one other time where the two left before I knew where they here at), Cradle(Dranos), CoH2(2nd boss), Dark Shades 2 x3(Netch in Normal/Karma in Vet/Engine Guardian in Vet) at least the ones I can remember. If it went smooth it’s hard to remember those.

Kuramas9tails

If that "fake tank" is doing more DPS and sustaining more than you are and you are still alive, stop complaining on forums and learn to do better. Ask that "fake tank" for build and rotation advice.

zaria

Maura_Neysa wrote: »

zaria wrote: »

Maura_Neysa wrote: »

Runefang wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Mojmir wrote: »

Your welcome for the easy completion- dps who queue'd as a tank

Can I send you the bill for the extra frustration I feel on my healers when the boss is in my face and I have to hold aggro on top of healing you and the rest of the party?

I just had a fake tank yell at a DPS for dragging the boss out of AOEs, when the DPS felt he had to run away from the boss aggroed on him. Sure, my healer could have healed that DPS if he'd just stood still, but after the nerve of a fake tank yelling at a DPS for not keeping the boss still, I'm in no mood to be charitable.

YOU might get an easy completion. Your groupmates have NO such guarantee if you don't hold 100% aggro with your amazing DPS. Which I've seen happen as often as a blue moon.

Honestly a decent fake-tank will slot a taunt, at least for the tough bosses. Mini-bosses are usually dead so fast that it doesn't matter.

And I've rarely had an issue with a fake-tank, either being one or running with one. My experiences with them is overwhelmingly positive, yet people like to whine about them. In comparison its about 1 in 4 runs where I have 2 bad DDs at once.

The fact that 90% of my real tank ques are into half completed dungeons, I think your math is a little off.

I regularly que for both level randoms, taking which ever pops, because I like the challenge of dragging the Pee Wee League through the dungeon they are not ready for.

Who dungens did you get most on tanks?

@zaria in the last month or two. BC2(last), Vollenfell(last), Direfrost(last), WGT x3(Planer/Kena/Atro before 1st boss all on vet), Maz x2(Xal/one other time where the two left before I knew where they here at), Cradle(Dranos), CoH2(2nd boss), Dark Shades 2 x3(Netch in Normal/Karma in Vet/Engine Guardian in Vet) at least the ones I can remember. If it went smooth it’s hard to remember those.

Makes sense, if the issue was fake tank it would go smooth with one.

Girl_Number8

Cazzy wrote: »

Is there a big problem with fake tanks atm? I keep seeing threads but have only really just returned to ESO...

Nope there's more of a problem with fake dps.

VaranisArano

Kuramas9tails wrote: »

If that "fake tank" is doing more DPS and sustaining more than you are and you are still alive, stop complaining on forums and learn to do better. Ask that "fake tank" for build and rotation advice.

Why? The fake tank might be a good DPS but he's a **** tank.

I don't need advice on how to be a better DPS. I'm a healer. I need a tank to hold aggro on the boss so I can focus on doing my job, healing and buffing and DPSing, without holding boss aggro too. When my healer heals, buffs, does DPS and holds boss aggro successfully, someone's getting carried, and its not my healer.

dragonz868

Personally I have seen the up-rise of fake tanks for a while now in group finder. I feel it is mainly because of a lack of tanks and healers using it so it takes forever for dps'ers to get a group. They get tired of waiting and que for everything just so they don't have to wait 2 hours to get a group. I don't condone it and don't agree with it but pretty sure that is why.