Fake Tank Psychology?

Stinkyremy

I'm a tank main and I find the pug group tool a long wait as a dps. Often I go into dungeons and there are fake tanks.
I don't stress about it too much but at least they could slot inner fire.
Yesterday I had the first deadroth in EH2 running around killing everyone because of a fake tank. The irony here is the deadroth is running out of all the aoe dam and uts, technically the dps on the boss was lower than if we had a tank, despite there being 3 dps in the dungeon.

gr4yrang3r87

Do I support fakers? No, but if you're gonna fake it, at least pick up the 'inner fire' taunt so you can keep boss aggro on yourself while running around like a chicken =P

Qbiken

Whichever takes me through the dungeon the fastest get my vote. And in 999/1000 cases it's those "fake -roles" who are DPS that makes those NORMAL-dungeons way faster (Not that "fake-roles" are only a problem on vet-dungeons).

If I had to choose between a "real-setup" with 1 Heal 1 tank and 2 DD´s and spend 40 min in a normal dungeon or a "fake-group" and spend 10 minutes in a normal dungeon, I would take the "fake-group" 24/7.

raj72616a

Zoliru wrote: »

Im taking aggro from these sooo called tanks with my 0 CP lvl27 Magplar DPS.......

like really.....
and then they call me out for bad DPS.... well DAH i spent half the fight healing myself to oblivion to not die to the boss that you cant hold the aggro with your 100+ CP leet char !!!!.............

1. there is no such thing as stealing aggro in eso. you taunt, or do not taunt. taunt is up, boss is on you, taunt expire, boss go after any one. there is no threat level, aggro has nothing to do with your damage amount

2. taunted boss still attack other players. the mechanics are designed like that. there are bosses that completely ignore taunt. there are bosses that primarily attack the taunter, but occasionally throw an attack at the others as well

3. you know your primary spam attack skill is good for single target, can hit AoE, can proc extra damage, and *HEAL* yourself at the same time, no?

Korah_Eaglecry

Cazzy wrote: »

Is there a big problem with fake tanks atm? I keep seeing threads but have only really just returned to ESO...

Everyone is trying to get into these queues as fast as they can as they have a lot of characters to run and if the group isnt as optimized as they should be the run could be longer than expected. So DPS players are queuing up as Healers and Tanks because there isnt as many actual Healers and Tanks running about. So Tanks and Healers are generally seeing a faster turn around time in the Queue than DPS. The end result is that some of these groups are getting into some rather challenging Dungeons that require a Heal check. And the teams are wiping hard because of it. Its nothing new to the GF but with more players giving it a go. Theres more eyes on the issue with queuing for roles players cant perform and so the forums are getting flooded with the same complaints.

Vizier

If it's a normal dungeon who cares. People can do that in their sleep with any random class and builds. Shrug.

ramasurinenpreub18_ESO

Ran across a new kind of "fake" tank today, or maybe fake dps I guess, a level 17 in heavy armour with sword and board who had queued as both tank and dps, absolutely no idea why.

He didn't notice that I had queued as tank only (actual 690 dk tank) and that he had ended up in the dps role. It took me one extremely uncontrollable and drawn out boss fight to realize that he was taunting as often as I was and the boss was immediately becoming immune to it. I keep a full medium armour dps set on me for soloing dungeons, so I just switched to that and let him tank away. Was easier than trying to explain the problem to him. Cleared it in no time after that, and he did ok.

The fake tank thing is pretty annoying, but, on the flipside, the fastest and smoothest vet hm elden 2 run I've ever experienced was with four mag sorcs. No tank and no healer, everyone self sufficient. It was comical how fast everything died.

LadyAstrum

Ok it seems there are new tanks, careless tanks, fake tanks and experienced tanks.

I'd guess the fake tanks are a much smaller number, but their psychology could simply be that they have no social conscience and don't feel a need to conform in order to be part of a group network. The nuanced interplay of reward, approval and acceptance isn't something they seek. They're merely in it for themselves, and have no problem being carried by others in order to get what they want.

Flameheart

A_G_G_R_O wrote: »

In lore I’m a fake tank. Don’t melt my fragile snowflakeness with your elitist remarks fam. It’s eso play how I want, if I wanna tank with bow light attacks I will. I am a kite tank.

Moving the boss out of my ground dots ?

/kick

Magdalina

For normals there really isn't much issue with "fake" tank, although it does depend on the group. A group of newbies might struggle with the dungeon and it would help them a lot to have someone keep the boss off them. Imo if you wanna fake queue a tank then have the decency to actually grab a taunt - I've seen plenty of dps do it with just ice staff, works just fine and gets the job done, zero reason to complain. Same for healer - be so kind to slot at least one healing skill if you want faster healer queue.

Normally it's not much of an issue but I was in an...underperforming group in Selene's the other day, I was a half geared tank(with a taunt mind you), the dps were obviously inexperienced and the dps was very low, and the "healer" was a low level stamknight who did *** dps, obviously didn't have a single group heal but SPENT THE WHOLE DAMN RUN COMPLAINING. "Omg dps is so low", "omg how could u die here", "omg this was aids"...seriously? You're gonna queue a healer, do exactly 0 heals then blame people for dying?! The dps were obviously not the raider level and could've damn well used those heals. And yes their dps frankly sucked - but at least they did SOME dps, which was the role they queued for...

We made it eventually but it was extremely annoying, actually wanted to kick the guy which doesn't happen that often to me.

Huyen

Taylor_MB wrote: »

Friggin forums obsessed with fake tanks right now.

Roll a tank yourself (not you, OP, just in general). The only way to fix fake tanks and lack of tanks in group finder is for you to be a tank yourself.

I just did.

Niobium

ChunkyCat wrote: »

I’d rather have a fake tank who is actually a dps than a “dps” who is running with a sword and board.

It happened.

While I can't say for the "fake tank" because I always run with a real tank (solid, all the debuffs/buffs, taunts, holds mobs still etc), we had a lot of fun in Bloodroot Forge with a sword and board "dps" who also had a taunt slotted. And then proceeded to run when he took agro. I wished I'd had some Benny Hill music to go along with it all.

sdtlc

For normal dungeons on a stam dd i just slot inner fire and still do up to the half of the group damage, depending on how fast the other dds can light attack, if it's not a dlc dungeon there's no problem with the incoming damage.

Another aspect is, if it was a good idea on having the freeweekend and the dungeonevent on the same date, fresh ones could get scared away from dungeons and i'd think about starting a game which has obviously some basic problems.

Zordrage

raj72616a wrote: »

Zoliru wrote: »

Im taking aggro from these sooo called tanks with my 0 CP lvl27 Magplar DPS.......

like really.....
and then they call me out for bad DPS.... well DAH i spent half the fight healing myself to oblivion to not die to the boss that you cant hold the aggro with your 100+ CP leet char !!!!.............

1. there is no such thing as stealing aggro in eso. you taunt, or do not taunt. taunt is up, boss is on you, taunt expire, boss go after any one. there is no threat level, aggro has nothing to do with your damage amount

2. taunted boss still attack other players. the mechanics are designed like that. there are bosses that completely ignore taunt. there are bosses that primarily attack the taunter, but occasionally throw an attack at the others as well

3. you know your primary spam attack skill is good for single target, can hit AoE, can proc extra damage, and *HEAL* yourself at the same time, no?

thats not the point..... and puncture is not the primary Spam dps ability againts bosses for a Magplar....also if as a magplar your only spamming 1 ability then your doing it wrong... really wrong....

The so called tank not used taunt ever
and allowed the boss to tunnel me to oblivion..... and then has the SKIN on his face to call me out on my freaking dps..... are you serious ?

Right now a HEALER that has eguiped a single Taunt ability is a BETTER tank then these people....
im waiting for the moment when one of these leet tanks die to something because they let the boss tunnel the healer and then blame the healer for bad healing.......

im at the point where i eguiped offbar with Sword and board with ONE single ability Pierce armor for taunting and traited in for those Block passives.... on my magplar..... when these stuff happen....
the fun part ? when it happens im actually a better tank in my low char keeping the boss on myself 99% the time in 5 piece of light armor lol while healing myself to oblivion and blocking stuff healers barely even need to heal me.....

raj72616a

Zoliru wrote: »

raj72616a wrote: »

Zoliru wrote: »

Im taking aggro from these sooo called tanks with my 0 CP lvl27 Magplar DPS.......

like really.....
and then they call me out for bad DPS.... well DAH i spent half the fight healing myself to oblivion to not die to the boss that you cant hold the aggro with your 100+ CP leet char !!!!.............

1. there is no such thing as stealing aggro in eso. you taunt, or do not taunt. taunt is up, boss is on you, taunt expire, boss go after any one. there is no threat level, aggro has nothing to do with your damage amount

2. taunted boss still attack other players. the mechanics are designed like that. there are bosses that completely ignore taunt. there are bosses that primarily attack the taunter, but occasionally throw an attack at the others as well

3. you know your primary spam attack skill is good for single target, can hit AoE, can proc extra damage, and *HEAL* yourself at the same time, no?

thats not the point..... and puncture is not the primary Spam dps ability againts bosses for a Magplar....also if as a magplar your only spamming 1 ability then your doing it wrong... really wrong....

The so called tank not used taunt ever
and allowed the boss to tunnel me to oblivion..... and then has the SKIN on his face to call me out on my freaking dps..... are you serious ?

Right now a HEALER that has eguiped a single Taunt ability is a BETTER tank then these people....
im waiting for the moment when one of these leet tanks die to something because they let the boss tunnel the healer and then blame the healer for bad healing.......

im at the point where i eguiped offbar with Sword and board with ONE single ability Pierce armor for taunting and traited in for those Block passives.... on my magplar..... when these stuff happen....
the fun part ? when it happens im actually a better tank in my low char keeping the boss on myself 99% the time in 5 piece of light armor lol while healing myself to oblivion and blocking stuff healers barely even need to heal me.....

Puncturing Sweep
Launch a relentless assault, striking enemies in front of you four times with your Aedric spear dealing Magic Damage with each strike.
The closest enemy takes 140% additional damage each strike, and their Movement Speed is reduced by 70% for 2 seconds on the final hit.
Heals you for 35% of damage done.

i'm not saying there is no alternative for a magplar dps, but if you don't know about this skill, you probably are doing something wrong.

VaranisArano

raj72616a wrote: »

Zoliru wrote: »

Im taking aggro from these sooo called tanks with my 0 CP lvl27 Magplar DPS.......

like really.....
and then they call me out for bad DPS.... well DAH i spent half the fight healing myself to oblivion to not die to the boss that you cant hold the aggro with your 100+ CP leet char !!!!.............

1. there is no such thing as stealing aggro in eso. you taunt, or do not taunt. taunt is up, boss is on you, taunt expire, boss go after any one. there is no threat level, aggro has nothing to do with your damage amount

2. taunted boss still attack other players. the mechanics are designed like that. there are bosses that completely ignore taunt. there are bosses that primarily attack the taunter, but occasionally throw an attack at the others as well

3. you know your primary spam attack skill is good for single target, can hit AoE, can proc extra damage, and *HEAL* yourself at the same time, no?

There's a difference between the behavior of a taunted boss and an untaunted boss.

1. You can "soft-taunt" with high damage or certain skills. The boss does pay attention to higher damage, or certain heals - one of the templar skills is semi-notorious for drawing NPCs. The problem comes when the fake tank doesn't do enough damage to hold boss aggro without a taunt, which they often don't. I've seen it done once for the entire dungeon and that was someone who brought his vet trials DPS to normal Wayrest I. Every other fake tank I've had loses boss aggro and then my healer or the DPS have to deal with the boss.

2. A taunted boss will turn to attack a player other than the tank, then turn back to the tank. An untaunted boss will spend most of the fight following a DPS or healer, sometimes switching targets. There are a rare few that are untauntable but those aren't the sort that get up in the healer or DPS' face either. Its not hard to tell the difference between a tank that has a taunt and a tank that doesn't. The boss behavior is pretty different.

3. If it annoying AF to have the boss in my healer's face. I can keep myself healed, sure. But while I'm doing that, its lots harder to keep track of the group's health and I'm having a harder time doing MY job because the person who queued as tank can't be bothered to do theirs. If there was someone in the group that I was supporting as the healer because they were squishy, my job just got a lot harder.

zaria

raj72616a wrote: »

Zoliru wrote: »

raj72616a wrote: »

Zoliru wrote: »

Im taking aggro from these sooo called tanks with my 0 CP lvl27 Magplar DPS.......

like really.....
and then they call me out for bad DPS.... well DAH i spent half the fight healing myself to oblivion to not die to the boss that you cant hold the aggro with your 100+ CP leet char !!!!.............

1. there is no such thing as stealing aggro in eso. you taunt, or do not taunt. taunt is up, boss is on you, taunt expire, boss go after any one. there is no threat level, aggro has nothing to do with your damage amount

2. taunted boss still attack other players. the mechanics are designed like that. there are bosses that completely ignore taunt. there are bosses that primarily attack the taunter, but occasionally throw an attack at the others as well

3. you know your primary spam attack skill is good for single target, can hit AoE, can proc extra damage, and *HEAL* yourself at the same time, no?

thats not the point..... and puncture is not the primary Spam dps ability againts bosses for a Magplar....also if as a magplar your only spamming 1 ability then your doing it wrong... really wrong....

The so called tank not used taunt ever
and allowed the boss to tunnel me to oblivion..... and then has the SKIN on his face to call me out on my freaking dps..... are you serious ?

Right now a HEALER that has eguiped a single Taunt ability is a BETTER tank then these people....
im waiting for the moment when one of these leet tanks die to something because they let the boss tunnel the healer and then blame the healer for bad healing.......

im at the point where i eguiped offbar with Sword and board with ONE single ability Pierce armor for taunting and traited in for those Block passives.... on my magplar..... when these stuff happen....
the fun part ? when it happens im actually a better tank in my low char keeping the boss on myself 99% the time in 5 piece of light armor lol while healing myself to oblivion and blocking stuff healers barely even need to heal me.....

Puncturing Sweep
Launch a relentless assault, striking enemies in front of you four times with your Aedric spear dealing Magic Damage with each strike.
The closest enemy takes 140% additional damage each strike, and their Movement Speed is reduced by 70% for 2 seconds on the final hit.
Heals you for 35% of damage done.

i'm not saying there is no alternative for a magplar dps, but if you don't know about this skill, you probably are doing something wrong.

Seems like sweep is out of fashion for templars.
Use it on my templar, nice to have to clear out trash on healer who only have wall of lighting as damage skill.

VaranisArano

raj72616a wrote: »

Zoliru wrote: »

raj72616a wrote: »

Zoliru wrote: »

Im taking aggro from these sooo called tanks with my 0 CP lvl27 Magplar DPS.......

like really.....
and then they call me out for bad DPS.... well DAH i spent half the fight healing myself to oblivion to not die to the boss that you cant hold the aggro with your 100+ CP leet char !!!!.............

1. there is no such thing as stealing aggro in eso. you taunt, or do not taunt. taunt is up, boss is on you, taunt expire, boss go after any one. there is no threat level, aggro has nothing to do with your damage amount

2. taunted boss still attack other players. the mechanics are designed like that. there are bosses that completely ignore taunt. there are bosses that primarily attack the taunter, but occasionally throw an attack at the others as well

3. you know your primary spam attack skill is good for single target, can hit AoE, can proc extra damage, and *HEAL* yourself at the same time, no?

thats not the point..... and puncture is not the primary Spam dps ability againts bosses for a Magplar....also if as a magplar your only spamming 1 ability then your doing it wrong... really wrong....

The so called tank not used taunt ever
and allowed the boss to tunnel me to oblivion..... and then has the SKIN on his face to call me out on my freaking dps..... are you serious ?

Right now a HEALER that has eguiped a single Taunt ability is a BETTER tank then these people....
im waiting for the moment when one of these leet tanks die to something because they let the boss tunnel the healer and then blame the healer for bad healing.......

im at the point where i eguiped offbar with Sword and board with ONE single ability Pierce armor for taunting and traited in for those Block passives.... on my magplar..... when these stuff happen....
the fun part ? when it happens im actually a better tank in my low char keeping the boss on myself 99% the time in 5 piece of light armor lol while healing myself to oblivion and blocking stuff healers barely even need to heal me.....

Puncturing Sweep
Launch a relentless assault, striking enemies in front of you four times with your Aedric spear dealing Magic Damage with each strike.
The closest enemy takes 140% additional damage each strike, and their Movement Speed is reduced by 70% for 2 seconds on the final hit.
Heals you for 35% of damage done.

i'm not saying there is no alternative for a magplar dps, but if you don't know about this skill, you probably are doing something wrong.

Okay. That's great. I use Puncturing Sweep just fine on my Magplar Healer when I can do DPS. But...I signed up to be a healer. While I'm holding aggro on the boss doing my Puncturing Sweeps in order to heal myself, I'm not healing my group. That's a problem.

"Oh, no, my amazing DPS will kill the boss before that's a problem!" the fake-tank DPS promises.

That's not how that works. For one, they never do. Any fake-tank DPS who can't hold aggro on the boss doesn't have the amazing DPS that gets us through without needing my heals. Second, the fake-tank may be totally self-sufficient, and my healer is self-sufficient, but there's no guarantee that our two DPS are because its a random group. And I'm the healer. Keeping people healed is my job, not holding boss aggro. So a fake-tank DPS who can't hold aggro actually causes more problems for me while I'm trying to do my job than they provide benefits. I can manage, but its annoying AF.

My point is, I can adjust to a fake-tank and keep my group healed even while the boss is in my face. I'm a CP 690 Magplar in a normal dungeon - if I couldn't, I'd have a problem. But someone in that group is getting carried and contrary to what that fake tank thinks, its not me.

dodgehopper_ESO

Recremen wrote: »

Cazzy wrote: »

Is there a big problem with fake tanks atm? I keep seeing threads but have only really just returned to ESO...

@Cazzy Due to the giveaway event there's (apparently) been a small uptick in people setting their dungeon finder roles to jobs they are not actually equiped to fill, so they can get as many alts through the group finder per day as possible and get the highest chance of winning nice things. This is mostly a non-issue since people tend to spam normal mode dungeons for the prizes and you can legit light-attack through a lot of normal dungeons, but then sometimes you get something like a Bloodroot Forge and all of a sudden a tank who can't hold aggro or take a hit becomes way more significant of a problem. That specific scenario happened to me today, but thankfully our fake tank left in a huff and we got a replacement who, you know, actually had a taunt on his bar.

@Recremen I agree with you on the reason why people have been queueing that way. There is not a single dungeon that I've run into where the team had a problem and that included a lot of 4xDPS teams. People should stop worrying so much. I think I waited 30 minutes to get a queue at least 3 times yesterday. I'll also admit that I've queued as a Tank on a DPS character that is Tanky, because I could definitely wing that on a Normal run if I had to. It ended up just meaning the run went by faster. Nowadays, I think Maelstrom arena was invented to teach people who to play the game, because dungeons aren't the same. Normal =/= Veteran by any stretch.

All I'm seeing from a lot of these threads is whining. I ran a Vet Cradle of Shadows yesterday and we ran through 3 tanks on that run. They weren't all bad tanks they were just newer tanks but they did alright. Don't crap on players just because they're new at a dungeon or not yet as tough as they'd like, particularly on a random run. Its an effort and people have to fail to ultimately succeed. If you want to 'play pro' you need to act like it and build your team from the ground up.

Waseem

I went on real tank for random normal.. 40mins on last boss banished cells.. The boss kept getting healed and dps was too low so..

In addition, most characters are DD role.. Dont expect magic

dodgehopper_ESO

raj72616a wrote: »

Zoliru wrote: »

Im taking aggro from these sooo called tanks with my 0 CP lvl27 Magplar DPS.......

like really.....
and then they call me out for bad DPS.... well DAH i spent half the fight healing myself to oblivion to not die to the boss that you cant hold the aggro with your 100+ CP leet char !!!!.............

1. there is no such thing as stealing aggro in eso. you taunt, or do not taunt. taunt is up, boss is on you, taunt expire, boss go after any one. there is no threat level, aggro has nothing to do with your damage amount

2. taunted boss still attack other players. the mechanics are designed like that. there are bosses that completely ignore taunt. there are bosses that primarily attack the taunter, but occasionally throw an attack at the others as well

3. you know your primary spam attack skill is good for single target, can hit AoE, can proc extra damage, and *HEAL* yourself at the same time, no?

Actually I had a newbie ICE-DPS taunting with her heavy attacks and pulling off of my tank today. It was kind of comical because it was one of my stronger tanks at that. I could have easily kept the boss and ate all of the damage without blocking. I didn't really complain about it though because the player was just mid-level/new and we got the job done fast enough.

kringled_1

Waseem wrote: »

I went on real tank for random normal.. 40mins on last boss banished cells.. The boss kept getting healed and dps was too low so..

In addition, most characters are DD role.. Dont expect magic

I have no idea how that's even possible (40 minutes). I've done that dungeon several times on my tank with her craptacular 3.5k dps, in cases where that's 30% of group dps. Didn't take anywhere near 40 minutes on Rilis. Even a tank's low dps can easily clear the healing orbs if noone else is.

mwo1480

be happy with fake tanks, i had a dungeon today i was dd just as i queued, tank was tank just as queued.........but both heal and other dd were also tanks (luckly i am a magplar with lot of points in health)

Runefang

I joined one on my real tank, 5k group dps against trash mobs. I left because that's just too low for me, I logged another character to do instead.

VaranisArano

mwo1480 wrote: »

be happy with fake tanks, i had a dungeon today i was dd just as i queued, tank was tank just as queued.........but both heal and other dd were also tanks (luckly i am a magplar with lot of points in health)

If all the players in the dungeon have sufficient DPS and sufficient self-heals/buffs, a fake tank DPS can do just fine. Its when all the other players don't that the fake tank causes issues. You can't guarantee that group members will be self-sufficient with group finder, so there's always a risk that the fake tank gets a group that actually needed someone who would at least slot a taunt and hold boss aggro.

As a healer, I see the other DPS take the brunt of this the worst. Often the fake tank can shrug off most of what a normal dungeon can throw at them. But the other DPS, not so much, and they struggle when the boss is on them or the boss is on my healer and I have to do the job of both healer and tank, watching my health plus those other DPS' health and dealing with the boss. The fake tank gets an easier run because they off-loaded part of the work onto other players who may or may not be built to handle it and who didn't expect to have to given the roles they queued for.

idk

Cazzy wrote: »

Is there a big problem with fake tanks atm? I keep seeing threads but have only really just returned to ESO...

No. Take a broad look at the forums. A great many complaints which is common in gaming forums. While I am sure there have been some bad experiences with a fake tank here and there, I think complaints, merited or not, are just a way of life in places like this.

Defilted

I was in a ICP last night and the guy that was designated tank was wearing light armor and had a staff. He never tanked anything. He just ran around and died a lot. In group finder it is rampant on XBOX NA.

I have a tank and do queue with it, but I also have 8 other characters. Cant always queue as a tank. There is only 3 dailies.

ZOS_Mika

We have recently removed a few off-topic posts from this thread. Please be sure to keep this discussion civil and constructive.

jaws343

IDK, I got put into CoA2 with a fake tank last night and it was the smoothest run of that dungeon I have ever done.

LeagueTroll

ChunkyCat wrote: »

I’d rather have a fake tank who is actually a dps than a “dps” who is running with a sword and board.

It happened.

Agreed, or bow snipe trash dps.