This controversy on lootboxes/crown crates needs to stop

Jade1986

DieAlteHexe wrote: »

Jade1986 wrote: »

Sheezabeast wrote: »

As consumers we're allowed to voice our opinions on issues, discouraging this is counter-productive.

Getting worked up over someone else's opinion, that's on you, learn where and when its appropriate.

Thank you! If there are multiple threads on the matter by different authors then clearly something is amiss.

You run the risk of alienating "fence sitters" when you (that's generic "you") oversaturate.

I'm neutral on this whole thing and I'm getting tired of the main page being cluttered with numerous of the same post. Yes, there is interest but that can just as easily be shown in one GINORMOUS thread.

And, note, this got moved....

Again, we had one ginormous thread, but mods shut it down. Because the pro crown crate people turned it into a political debate.

starkerealm wrote: »

Jade1986 wrote: »

Geroken777 wrote: »

Including here. Many of you cry about not having the choice to buy a cosmetic item that will grant you nothing but satisfaction at the end of the day. Remember this: ESO is a business and it needs revenue, and crown store does its job. Many of you suggested going back to sub-mode, but the reason ZOS decided to drop it is because it wasn't profitable. Again, coming to the topic of addiction which also a lot of you discuss. There is a word called 'self responsibility' and some people shoud look it up in the dictionary. This chaos needs to stop. Stop whining about cosmetics.

And yet they would make just as much profit or even more from getting rid of them and making items direct purchase.....

That part isn't quite true. The profits on lucky bags are, quite frankly, staggering.

Im sure thats true, but the game was doing -fine- before they were introduced, and it would do fine without them, and if they put those items into the store and people knew what they were getting, most people who spend crowns on direct purchase items may consider buying them. So the profit loss would be minimal, or non existant.

Geroken777

Don't you think if we all change the word from 'crown crates' to 'loot boxes' we would essentialy have the rights to go back to General Discussion? Afterall, it won't be crown store, but it will be a debate over gambling in ESO.

Jade1986

Geroken777 wrote: »

Don't you think if we all change the word from 'crown crates' to 'loot boxes' we would essentialy have the rights to go back to General Discussion? Afterall, it won't be crown store, but it will be a debate over gambling in ESO.

The mods move anythin they dont agree with pretty much.

Geroken777

Jade1986 wrote: »

Geroken777 wrote: »

Don't you think if we all change the word from 'crown crates' to 'loot boxes' we would essentialy have the rights to go back to General Discussion? Afterall, it won't be crown store, but it will be a debate over gambling in ESO.

The mods move anythin they dont agree with pretty much.

Yeah; I wonder though, if we create a post about complaining the suppression of several threads by moving them into dead topics, would they remove the post for being 'unconstructive'? I might as well test it out today or tomorrow.

Jade1986

Geroken777 wrote: »

Jade1986 wrote: »

Geroken777 wrote: »

Don't you think if we all change the word from 'crown crates' to 'loot boxes' we would essentialy have the rights to go back to General Discussion? Afterall, it won't be crown store, but it will be a debate over gambling in ESO.

The mods move anythin they dont agree with pretty much.

Yeah; I wonder though, if we create a post about complaining the suppression of several threads by moving them into dead topics, would they remove the post for being 'unconstructive'? I might as well test it out today or tomorrow.

If any other forums are anything to go by they will just ban you.

Thats what they did on the Bethesda forums, thats what they did on the Gears of War forums.

Doctordarkspawn

Jade1986 wrote: »

Geroken777 wrote: »

Don't you think if we all change the word from 'crown crates' to 'loot boxes' we would essentialy have the rights to go back to General Discussion? Afterall, it won't be crown store, but it will be a debate over gambling in ESO.

The mods move anythin they dont agree with pretty much.

This.

They like to burry it in the not all that used other sections of the forums in order to quarantine the content they dislike.

DieAlteHexe

DarkAedin wrote: »

Balamoor wrote: »

DieAlteHexe wrote: »

Jade1986 wrote: »

Sheezabeast wrote: »

As consumers we're allowed to voice our opinions on issues, discouraging this is counter-productive.

Getting worked up over someone else's opinion, that's on you, learn where and when its appropriate.

Thank you! If there are multiple threads on the matter by different authors then clearly something is amiss.

You run the risk of alienating "fence sitters" when you (that's generic "you") oversaturate.

I'm neutral on this whole thing and I'm getting tired of the main page being cluttered with numerous of the same post. Yes, there is interest but that can just as easily be shown in one GINORMOUS thread.

And, note, this got moved....

Yeah buried back in a sub forum that gets little traffic is a great way to deal with it...they can't whine that they are being silenced, but they are shouting their opinions from a place few hear.

lol

They are on a trend of moving the threads they dont want the masses to see

Were that the case, they'd simply delete.

Geroken777

DieAlteHexe wrote: »

DarkAedin wrote: »

Balamoor wrote: »

DieAlteHexe wrote: »

Jade1986 wrote: »

Sheezabeast wrote: »

As consumers we're allowed to voice our opinions on issues, discouraging this is counter-productive.

Getting worked up over someone else's opinion, that's on you, learn where and when its appropriate.

Thank you! If there are multiple threads on the matter by different authors then clearly something is amiss.

You run the risk of alienating "fence sitters" when you (that's generic "you") oversaturate.

I'm neutral on this whole thing and I'm getting tired of the main page being cluttered with numerous of the same post. Yes, there is interest but that can just as easily be shown in one GINORMOUS thread.

And, note, this got moved....

Yeah buried back in a sub forum that gets little traffic is a great way to deal with it...they can't whine that they are being silenced, but they are shouting their opinions from a place few hear.

lol

They are on a trend of moving the threads they dont want the masses to see

Were that the case, they'd simply delete.

I think simply 'deleting' wouldn't necessarily work. The OP of the thread, could cause a big issue of how that company is working and abusing their powers in another thread outside official forums e.g reddit.

Cadbury

DieAlteHexe wrote: »

DarkAedin wrote: »

Balamoor wrote: »

DieAlteHexe wrote: »

Jade1986 wrote: »

Sheezabeast wrote: »

As consumers we're allowed to voice our opinions on issues, discouraging this is counter-productive.

Getting worked up over someone else's opinion, that's on you, learn where and when its appropriate.

Thank you! If there are multiple threads on the matter by different authors then clearly something is amiss.

You run the risk of alienating "fence sitters" when you (that's generic "you") oversaturate.

I'm neutral on this whole thing and I'm getting tired of the main page being cluttered with numerous of the same post. Yes, there is interest but that can just as easily be shown in one GINORMOUS thread.

And, note, this got moved....

Yeah buried back in a sub forum that gets little traffic is a great way to deal with it...they can't whine that they are being silenced, but they are shouting their opinions from a place few hear.

lol

They are on a trend of moving the threads they dont want the masses to see

Were that the case, they'd simply delete.

I mainly use the "recent" button to keep up with topics throughout the forums. So as long as someone keeps the tread active, I'll see it. I doubt I'm the only one who does this.

Turelus

A lot of people telling other people they can't post on open forums this weekend, weird.

Also, loot boxes suck. You can debunk most arguments for them with about one Jim Sterling video these days.

Cadbury

Turelus wrote: »

A lot of people telling other people they can't post on open forums this weekend, weird.

Also, loot boxes suck. You can debunk most arguments for them with about one Jim Sterling video these days.

Angry Joe has better rebuttals. Jim S. responses are more agenda based, like TotalBiscuit's

Just sayin'

But let's not get too offtopic here.

Sheezabeast

I get why they moved it. This board got really, erm, opinionated lol.

You know, it is possible to have civilized debate

eklhaftb16_ESO

The notion that it is okay to over-monetize cosmetics, since they are "granting nothing but satisfaction", needs to go away already.

Sure, "it doesn't matter, it's just cosmetics", right? Except that getting their outfit "just right" is a major part of the gameplay for many people, and putting unique cosmetic options into lockboxes essentially means that part of their "progression" is locked behind a randomized paywall.

How would you like having to pay crowns to loot a raid boss? No, of course you wouldn't. And that's the point.

Jade1986

eklhaftb16_ESO wrote: »

The notion that it is okay to over-monetize cosmetics, since they are "granting nothing but satisfaction", needs to go away already.

Sure, "it doesn't matter, it's just cosmetics", right? Except that getting their outfit "just right" is a major part of the gameplay for many people, and putting unique cosmetic options into lockboxes essentially means that part of their "progression" is locked behind a randomized paywall.

How would you like having to pay crowns to loot a raid boss? No, of course you wouldn't. And that's the point.

^^ This person gets it.

esp1992

For the Love of Kyne!

Can’t we all just GET ALONG?

Rainraven

You started a thread to tell people to shut up about the topic you started the thread about?





mmkay

starkerealm

Jade1986 wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

Jade1986 wrote: »

Geroken777 wrote: »

Including here. Many of you cry about not having the choice to buy a cosmetic item that will grant you nothing but satisfaction at the end of the day. Remember this: ESO is a business and it needs revenue, and crown store does its job. Many of you suggested going back to sub-mode, but the reason ZOS decided to drop it is because it wasn't profitable. Again, coming to the topic of addiction which also a lot of you discuss. There is a word called 'self responsibility' and some people shoud look it up in the dictionary. This chaos needs to stop. Stop whining about cosmetics.

And yet they would make just as much profit or even more from getting rid of them and making items direct purchase.....

That part isn't quite true. The profits on lucky bags are, quite frankly, staggering.

Im sure thats true, but the game was doing -fine- before they were introduced, and it would do fine without them, and if they put those items into the store and people knew what they were getting, most people who spend crowns on direct purchase items may consider buying them. So the profit loss would be minimal, or non existant.

At that point, the overall health of the game isn't at issue. Lucky bags like this are implemented because of the profit margins. Reasonable guess is that this was implemented at the behest of either Zenimax (as in the holding company), or Bethesda Softworks (the publisher), as opposed to a decision by Zenimax Online Studios.

Someone, earlier, was saying that ESO wasn't beholden to shareholders... which isn't really true. Zenimax is privately owned, but it is still a corporation.

Furthermore, it's worth remembering that these kinds of decisions often (though not in ESO's case) are pushed by the publishers themselves, which then have to justify the position to their investors.

Ironically, in 2k's Earnings Call a couple weeks ago, they were desperately trying to paint any pushback against in game microtransactions and games-as-a-service as minor, superficial interests. It's not the investors looking for more money that you need to worry about, in many cases, it's the publisher's own executives.

Now, obviously, I don't know exactly what lead to the decision with ESO. Five or six years ago, bags like this would have been an indicator that the game was desperate, but now it's become an accepted business model in some corners of the industry. Or, at least, it had, up until EA started this mess.

jordan.derpb14_ESO

Shill.

TelvanniWizard

Geroken777 wrote: »

Including here. Many of you cry about not having the choice to buy a cosmetic item that will grant you nothing but satisfaction at the end of the day. Remember this: ESO is a business and it needs revenue, and crown store does its job. Many of you suggested going back to sub-mode, but the reason ZOS decided to drop it is because it wasn't profitable. Again, coming to the topic of addiction which also a lot of you discuss. There is a word called 'self responsibility' and some people shoud look it up in the dictionary. This chaos needs to stop. Stop whining about cosmetics.

You won´t make us shut up. We have the right to give our opinion. Shame on you.

Jade1986

starkerealm wrote: »

Jade1986 wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

Jade1986 wrote: »

Geroken777 wrote: »

Including here. Many of you cry about not having the choice to buy a cosmetic item that will grant you nothing but satisfaction at the end of the day. Remember this: ESO is a business and it needs revenue, and crown store does its job. Many of you suggested going back to sub-mode, but the reason ZOS decided to drop it is because it wasn't profitable. Again, coming to the topic of addiction which also a lot of you discuss. There is a word called 'self responsibility' and some people shoud look it up in the dictionary. This chaos needs to stop. Stop whining about cosmetics.

And yet they would make just as much profit or even more from getting rid of them and making items direct purchase.....

That part isn't quite true. The profits on lucky bags are, quite frankly, staggering.

Im sure thats true, but the game was doing -fine- before they were introduced, and it would do fine without them, and if they put those items into the store and people knew what they were getting, most people who spend crowns on direct purchase items may consider buying them. So the profit loss would be minimal, or non existant.

At that point, the overall health of the game isn't at issue. Lucky bags like this are implemented because of the profit margins. Reasonable guess is that this was implemented at the behest of either Zenimax (as in the holding company), or Bethesda Softworks (the publisher), as opposed to a decision by Zenimax Online Studios.

Someone, earlier, was saying that ESO wasn't beholden to shareholders... which isn't really true. Zenimax is privately owned, but it is still a corporation.

Furthermore, it's worth remembering that these kinds of decisions often (though not in ESO's case) are pushed by the publishers themselves, which then have to justify the position to their investors.

Ironically, in 2k's Earnings Call a couple weeks ago, they were desperately trying to paint any pushback against in game microtransactions and games-as-a-service as minor, superficial interests. It's not the investors looking for more money that you need to worry about, in many cases, it's the publisher's own executives.

Now, obviously, I don't know exactly what lead to the decision with ESO. Five or six years ago, bags like this would have been an indicator that the game was desperate, but now it's become an accepted business model in some corners of the industry. Or, at least, it had, up until EA started this mess.

I wouldnt say EA started the mess at all. They did however drop the straw to break the camels back. It was inevitable that this would come to a head and people with influence would finally take notice. It is a pure predatory practice, and earnings should be earned from quality products that you know you are getting.

Jade1986

TelvanniWizard wrote: »

Geroken777 wrote: »

Including here. Many of you cry about not having the choice to buy a cosmetic item that will grant you nothing but satisfaction at the end of the day. Remember this: ESO is a business and it needs revenue, and crown store does its job. Many of you suggested going back to sub-mode, but the reason ZOS decided to drop it is because it wasn't profitable. Again, coming to the topic of addiction which also a lot of you discuss. There is a word called 'self responsibility' and some people shoud look it up in the dictionary. This chaos needs to stop. Stop whining about cosmetics.

You won´t make us shut up. We have the right to give our opinion. Shame on you.

Its all people like that can do, whine about self responsiblity. Ironically, when it comes to situations I wont mention, they want big brother to over extend because they dont agree with people taking personal responsibility that doesnt suit them. And they want anyone who talks about something they dont agree with to shut up.

Hanokihs

You know, if they get rid of this system, they're only going to come up with something worse.

They demonstrated as much with the drop-only mounts. Many were unwilling to pay, and they weren't making "enough" with folks cashing in their gems, so they created super-special-awesome versions of already rare items and locked them away so that the only option of getting them was to buy until you're lucky.

Furthermore, they'll never make as much money on direct purchases of these things, especially not with someone posting a thread of outrage every time something is "too expensive" to buy. They could price every Apex tier mount at 5000 crowns, and despite it being cheaper than buying into the crate system, people will still whinge about it and refuse to purchase them.

DaveMoeDee

I don't care about loot crates or cosmetic items.

But OP is waaaaay off base. Consumers SHOULD pressure companies to act in ways they want. Consumers SHOULD use their power as consumers. It is important to let companies know what you will accept. Companies want to make money, and retaining customers is a big part of that.

I am in no way implying that the majority of players hate loot crates. I have no idea. But if you love a service and don't like the direction it is taking, there are steps you can take before walking away. Public complaints are one of them.

If companies don't want the bad press, they can be more careful about fishing for whales.

starkerealm

Jade1986 wrote: »

I wouldnt say EA started the mess at all.

"This mess," as in, specifically, the backlash over Battlefield 2, that has begun to spill over into loot boxes in general. Not the concept of lucky bags nor pay to win. Those were both very real considerations already.

Jade1986

starkerealm wrote: »

Jade1986 wrote: »

I wouldnt say EA started the mess at all.

"This mess," as in, specifically, the backlash over Battlefield 2, that has begun to spill over into loot boxes in general. Not the concept of lucky bags nor pay to win. Those were both very real considerations already.

The, not this. I was talking about scam crates in general. EA just broke the camels back.

WhiteCoatSyndrome

Hanokihs wrote: »

You know, if they get rid of this system, they're only going to come up with something worse.

While this may be true, there's nothing stopping them from coming up with something worse ON TOP of the crates. Better IMO to treat them like ants or other unwanted pests - squash them if you can, because ignoring the problem isn't going to make it better.

If nothing else we might buy time in which there are a few games that haven't been microtransactioned to death before the next legal exploit is discovered. If not? I sleep better at night knowing I tried.

Jade1986

WhiteCoatSyndrome wrote: »

Hanokihs wrote: »

You know, if they get rid of this system, they're only going to come up with something worse.

While this may be true, there's nothing stopping them from coming up with something worse ON TOP of the crates. Better IMO to treat them like ants or other unwanted pests - squash them if you can, because ignoring the problem isn't going to make it better.

If nothing else we might buy time in which there are a few games that haven't been microtransactioned to death before the next legal exploit is discovered. If not? I sleep better at night knowing I tried.

The only time I see crown crates as acceptable is when they give them away. So then it is like a secret santa type thing. xD. Crown crates for eso+ members, yes please, the rest should be direct purchase. No more of this random nonsense.

Wreuntzylla

.

Geroken777 wrote: »

Including here. Many of you cry about not having the choice to buy a cosmetic item that will grant you nothing but satisfaction at the end of the day. Remember this: ESO is a business and it needs revenue, and crown store does its job. Many of you suggested going back to sub-mode, but the reason ZOS decided to drop it is because it wasn't profitable. Again, coming to the topic of addiction which also a lot of you discuss. There is a word called 'self responsibility' and some people shoud look it up in the dictionary. This chaos needs to stop. Stop whining about cosmetics.

Who said the sub model wasn't profitable???

ESO devs thought the sub model was working fine. Then a bunch were let go and we became cow teets.

Drakkdjinn

There's no controversy - it's plain as day. Crates are gambling; gambling is highly regulated for a reason. Digital gaming has gone under the radar of these regulations for as long as it could and now its looking like they won't be able to anymore after pushing the envelope beyond sound "business" practices. This is a good thing because it will force developers to make products worthy of their pricetags instead of digital hooks desgined to loop people into generating artificial gambling revenues off of non-products.

You're free to do any mental gymnastics you like to defend these practices, but you've lost the plot. Listen to the soundbytes of the crown crate Khajiit as you open these things; they provide all the proof anyone with sound critical faculties would need to demonstrate the above.

NyassaV

Personally I just dislike broken RNG. Cassinos have to give chances but ZoS doesn't give us the numbers