This controversy on lootboxes/crown crates needs to stop

Geroken777

Including here. Many of you cry about not having the choice to buy a cosmetic item that will grant you nothing but satisfaction at the end of the day. Remember this: ESO is a business and it needs revenue, and crown store does its job. Many of you suggested going back to sub-mode, but the reason ZOS decided to drop it is because it wasn't profitable. Again, coming to the topic of addiction which also a lot of you discuss. There is a word called 'self responsibility' and some people shoud look it up in the dictionary. This chaos needs to stop. Stop whining about cosmetics.

Balgost

Yay, a new thread for an old topic...self responsibility comes in many forms.

ProfessorKittyhawk

For the belly aching people do about the crates and the store in general I sure do see a ton of people riding the fancy mounts and wearing the costumes you can get from it. In any case people don't seem to understand things are as they are because the game needs to support itself. It doesn't always make me happy to have to have to spend real money for the latest mount or costume I want, but if they didn't do that then the game would tank. I love ESO and want to see it succeed.

They could stand to make a few new mounts you can get with gold though. Not just horses either. Kind of lame that all that's available are horses. We don't need the super special awesome ultra rare super mounts like they out in the store. Give us a regular old senche. Or a guar. Something people can get with in game gold. I don't think it would hurt the crown store revenue one iota.

Jarryzzt

ProfessorKittyhawk wrote: »

I don't think it would hurt the crown store revenue one iota.

Given that Zenimax is owned by a private equity fund, the corporate-level imperative is, likely, to squeeze out every last cent of revenue from the business*. This would imply less content for gold, more content for crowns (including regular horses, of which there were a few in the crown store last time I checked).

In other words, while I myself am not disagreeing with your statement, I believe it would be difficult to sell this to Zenimax's current ownership. In particular as "finance" guys, and most of the time it's guys, tend not to have very much familiarity with things like video games beyond the "stuff my kids waste time on" type statements (for one, most of the top cohort is too old!).

* - this isn't a subjective statement but rather the reality of how a private equity fund operates. A majority of the return is ultimately earned by reselling the portfolio companies for, ideally, some higher price, and, moreover, until the sale happens each company is carried at some valuation in the portfolio you show your investors. Both the price and the valuation are typically based on a "cash operating income" (EBITDA) multiple, which means that for 95% portfolio companies in 95% of private equity funds the two orders of the day are "squeeze out every last cent of revenue" and "cut every last cent of excess cost". Often to the long-term detriment of said companies, yes, I'll be the first to admit such, but no-one thinks about the long-term when annual bonuses make up a substantial part of the partners' compensation (usually).

DocFrost72

The singular predatory thing in the crown crates (in my opinion) is the mounts you can't buy with gems.

If you're a collector, there is an exact cap of price for everything else.

monktoasty

No..the controversy needs to get louder. Just because eso needs revenue doesn't mean they should be extremely unfair about the chances of getting anything good in the crates.

Also..eso is tame compared to.other games where the exploitation is 10 times worse..so as gamers we need to say enough is enough especially for full retail priced games.. that don't even pay for servers like bf2 or cod

bitels

"Im sick and tired of controversy around loot boxes, so im gonna start new topic about controversy around loot boxes"

Apache_Kid

How did video game companies survive for decades without micro-transactions? Were studios constantly shutting down? Were the company executives poor and destitute? Were developers out on the streets?

Maybe if the game actually worked and ran as it should and didn't crash/lag constantly, they could actually make some money off of a sub-model. I agree with you that there needs to be personal responsibility for adults but there are so many kids playing these games. How many parents have a credit saved on an Xbox when they signed their kid up for Xbox Live? Lots of potential for abuse. Like it or not this issue is going to come to a tipping point eventually. There will be legislation.

nolangrady

Why can't I have everything for free? How dare you have the ability and free will to purchase a virtual box! Those boxes will kill your first born and make you do evil things. While we are at why the hell do people that subscribe get a craft bag? Craft bags should be obtainable for free in game. That's not fair that I have to empty my storage space more often because you choose to give ZOS money! Oh and I don't like the fact that we have to purchase DLCs. What because I don't purchase additional content I cannot obtain the item sets?!

Oh crap the pizza delivery guy is at the door. I got a great deal on 2 large specialty pizzas for 14.99! Gotta run

Tavore1138

Geroken777 wrote: »

Including here. Many of you cry about not having the choice to buy a cosmetic item that will grant you nothing but satisfaction at the end of the day. Remember this: ESO is a business and it needs revenue, and crown store does its job. Many of you suggested going back to sub-mode, but the reason ZOS decided to drop it is because it wasn't profitable. Again, coming to the topic of addiction which also a lot of you discuss. There is a word called 'self responsibility' and some people shoud look it up in the dictionary. This chaos needs to stop. Stop whining about cosmetics.

Thanks very much for telling us all what my opinions should be and where I can express them. You are providing a valuable service to someone like me who was under the mistaken impression they were entitled to hold opinions other than the one you have designated as correct!

DarcyMardin

Geroken777 wrote: »

Including here. Many of you cry about not having the choice to buy a cosmetic item that will grant you nothing but satisfaction at the end of the day. Remember this: ESO is a business and it needs revenue, and crown store does its job. Many of you suggested going back to sub-mode, but the reason ZOS decided to drop it is because it wasn't profitable. Again, coming to the topic of addiction which also a lot of you discuss. There is a word called 'self responsibility' and some people shoud look it up in the dictionary. This chaos needs to stop. Stop whining about cosmetics.

How often does lecturing others about what they “need” to stop doing ever work? Folks don’t usually like other people talking down to them or telling them what they should or shouldn’t do. Human nature.

Personally, I enjoy the active discussions and try to respect other people’s points of view, whether or not I agree. YMMV.

nolangrady

Tavore1138 wrote: »

Geroken777 wrote: »

Including here. Many of you cry about not having the choice to buy a cosmetic item that will grant you nothing but satisfaction at the end of the day. Remember this: ESO is a business and it needs revenue, and crown store does its job. Many of you suggested going back to sub-mode, but the reason ZOS decided to drop it is because it wasn't profitable. Again, coming to the topic of addiction which also a lot of you discuss. There is a word called 'self responsibility' and some people shoud look it up in the dictionary. This chaos needs to stop. Stop whining about cosmetics.

Thanks very much for telling us all what my opinions should be and where I can express them. You are providing a valuable service to someone like me who was under the mistaken impression they were entitled to hold opinions other than the one you have designated as correct!

What is your opinion? OP stated their opinion and all you have for a response is that your opinion isn't valued. What is your opinion?

KeiruNicrom

I used to be 100% against the crown crates. Now i just want ZOS to remove the consumables. Im fine with randomized cosmetics dropping. Im fine with the gems now. But come on, why did i just open a crate with food, poison, potions, and an exp scroll? I can make equally as good if not better versions of all of them. Give me a crate where i get 4 costumes i already own and ill be thousands times happier

Waseem

Geroken777 wrote: »

Including here. Many of you cry about not having the choice to buy a cosmetic item that will grant you nothing but satisfaction at the end of the day. Remember this: ESO is a business and it needs revenue, and crown store does its job. Many of you suggested going back to sub-mode, but the reason ZOS decided to drop it is because it wasn't profitable. Again, coming to the topic of addiction which also a lot of you discuss. There is a word called 'self responsibility' and some people shoud look it up in the dictionary. This chaos needs to stop. Stop whining about cosmetics.

Its business OK we all know that, but its a different story when a player can get a mount he likes for 400 crowns while another player for 40,000 crowns.

Get the loot boxes aside and re introduce previous crown store items and put more stuff in crown store...
I feel more comfortable to use my credit card to purchase an item which may cost 20$ than to pay 20$ for a *chance* to get the desired item, matter of fact, when its about RNG and luck, i would take the 20$ and throw it for real life betting where the *chance* is for a 10,000$ prize not a video game plushie...

Tavore1138

nolangrady wrote: »

Tavore1138 wrote: »

Geroken777 wrote: »

Including here. Many of you cry about not having the choice to buy a cosmetic item that will grant you nothing but satisfaction at the end of the day. Remember this: ESO is a business and it needs revenue, and crown store does its job. Many of you suggested going back to sub-mode, but the reason ZOS decided to drop it is because it wasn't profitable. Again, coming to the topic of addiction which also a lot of you discuss. There is a word called 'self responsibility' and some people shoud look it up in the dictionary. This chaos needs to stop. Stop whining about cosmetics.

Thanks very much for telling us all what my opinions should be and where I can express them. You are providing a valuable service to someone like me who was under the mistaken impression they were entitled to hold opinions other than the one you have designated as correct!

What is your opinion? OP stated their opinion and all you have for a response is that your opinion isn't valued. What is your opinion?

Clearly I needed a sarcasm tag - my opinion is that the OP needs to wind his neck in and go find a job where he can satisfy his authoritarian tendencies somewhere where I am not.

On the crates fwiw I am mixed - I don't hate them outright like some I liked that they had the gem option so that the gamble was finite and freely indulged myself in the first couple of seasons of the. When they added the RNG only mounts and the sneaky little tastes to whet the appetite I recognised a couple of predatory tactics I have seen elsewhere and as a result have become much less of a fan and thus reduced my overall spend on the game generally in response.

Narvuntien

I am pretty sure I have posted in this exact thread 5 times now.

You are correct for the selling of costmetic and convience items in the crown store. They should make money off thier art. good all fine. I am not going to complain about the price of DLCs considering the work that goes into them.

The crown crates are gambling, and that is dangerous, because gambling "addiction" is a real thing. Paying money for uncertain value is gambling. The company needs to be careful with how it sells crown crates, it is a very different thing to buying regular items in the crown store. They can make small changes to the crown crates and I will be fine with the. Which I listed in other threads.

Everyone has personal responsibility, but if you have more power you have more responsibility. The game company has the most power over the game and its player base. They have a responsibility not to abuse that power.

Darkstorne

@Geroken777 wants people to stop talking about the lootboxes/crown crates controversy. So he starts another discussion about the lootboxes/crown crates controversy.

Balamoor

I'm seriously starting to think they should start suspending people over these dead horse threads.

Kiralyn2000

Good luck with that, OP. The Internet Rage Machine has gotten good & wound up, and it's not going to stop until Something™ is done.

Given that Something™ is going to be because of ignorant legislatures that are still trying to grasp "digital" & knee-jerk reacting company boards, it's likely to end up - possibly months from now - actually being a bad thing. (i.e, Be Careful What You Wish For...)

Balamoor

Kiralyn2000 wrote: »

Good luck with that, OP. The Internet Rage Machine has gotten good & wound up, and it's not going to stop until Something™ is done.

Given that Something™ is going to be because of ignorant legislatures that are still trying to grasp "digital" & knee-jerk reacting company boards, it's likely to end up - possibly months from now - actually being a bad thing. (i.e, Be Careful What You Wish For...)

Yeah it kind of reminds me of the whole Heavy Metal is evil congressional hearings of the 80's...so you can imagine the type of people on this forum supporting that.

I wouldn't worry though honestly .....as I said in this thread I have actually spoken to folks that know a whole lot more about this than a armchair legislator, and there really isn't much to worry about. What ZoS should be more concerned with is the lunatic fringe that are taking this way too far and harassing folks in game and trying to expose their personal information to the public for the heinous crime of buying crown crates or saying positive tings about them, that is going end up getting ZoS sued, if something bad happens.

Jade1986

Geroken777 wrote: »

Including here. Many of you cry about not having the choice to buy a cosmetic item that will grant you nothing but satisfaction at the end of the day. Remember this: ESO is a business and it needs revenue, and crown store does its job. Many of you suggested going back to sub-mode, but the reason ZOS decided to drop it is because it wasn't profitable. Again, coming to the topic of addiction which also a lot of you discuss. There is a word called 'self responsibility' and some people shoud look it up in the dictionary. This chaos needs to stop. Stop whining about cosmetics.

And yet they would make just as much profit or even more from getting rid of them and making items direct purchase.....

Jade1986

Balamoor wrote: »

Kiralyn2000 wrote: »

Good luck with that, OP. The Internet Rage Machine has gotten good & wound up, and it's not going to stop until Something™ is done.

Given that Something™ is going to be because of ignorant legislatures that are still trying to grasp "digital" & knee-jerk reacting company boards, it's likely to end up - possibly months from now - actually being a bad thing. (i.e, Be Careful What You Wish For...)

Yeah it kind of reminds me of the whole Heavy Metal is evil congressional hearings of the 80's...so you can imagine the type of people on this forum supporting that.

I wouldn't worry though honestly .....as I said in this thread I have actually spoken to folks that know a whole lot more about this than a armchair legislator, and there really isn't much to worry about. What ZoS should be more concerned with is the lunatic fringe that are taking this way too far and harassing folks in game and trying to expose their personal information to the public for the heinous crime of buying crown crates or saying positive tings about them, that is going end up getting ZoS sued, if something bad happens.

Yes, you have spoken to folks that know better. How on earth can we argue with that. And I havent seen, in my experience since beta, a single person harass anyone for having items from crown crates. Stop making stuff up. The problem is crown crates, and if you want more choices to spend your money on, the solution would be get rid of them, if you are concerned about the free market and zos' profit, adding high price apex items for direct purchase would actually get them even more money because peopel would be more inclined to spend money on something where they were guaranteed something useful.

Seriously, you sound like the main character from AHS Cult....

Jade1986

Balamoor wrote: »

I'm seriously starting to think they should start suspending people over these dead horse threads.

Thats right, silence the opposition and people raising concerns.....

nolangrady

Jade1986 wrote: »

Balamoor wrote: »

I'm seriously starting to think they should start suspending people over these dead horse threads.

Thats right, silence the opposition and people raising concerns.....

No it's called crowd control. You guys have a right to voice your opinion as do we. Most are just asking to consolidate your whining. This isn't Reddit and this isn't EA. Crying on the official forums is not going to have the same traction.

Balamoor

Jade1986 wrote: »

Balamoor wrote: »

Kiralyn2000 wrote: »

Good luck with that, OP. The Internet Rage Machine has gotten good & wound up, and it's not going to stop until Something™ is done.

Given that Something™ is going to be because of ignorant legislatures that are still trying to grasp "digital" & knee-jerk reacting company boards, it's likely to end up - possibly months from now - actually being a bad thing. (i.e, Be Careful What You Wish For...)

Yeah it kind of reminds me of the whole Heavy Metal is evil congressional hearings of the 80's...so you can imagine the type of people on this forum supporting that.

I wouldn't worry though honestly .....as I said in this thread I have actually spoken to folks that know a whole lot more about this than a armchair legislator, and there really isn't much to worry about. What ZoS should be more concerned with is the lunatic fringe that are taking this way too far and harassing folks in game and trying to expose their personal information to the public for the heinous crime of buying crown crates or saying positive tings about them, that is going end up getting ZoS sued, if something bad happens.

Yes, you have spoken to folks that know better. How on earth can we argue with that. And I havent seen, in my experience since beta, a single person harass anyone for having items from crown crates. Stop making stuff up. The problem is crown crates, and if you want more choices to spend your money on, the solution would be get rid of them, if you are concerned about the free market and zos' profit, adding high price apex items for direct purchase would actually get them even more money because peopel would be more inclined to spend money on something where they were guaranteed something useful.

Seriously, you sound like the main character from AHS Cult....

Yeah I'm making stuff up there aren't reports with ZoS concerning the issues with evidence, there certainly isn't three people who won't play this game that use to be in my guild who got bullied by the PAWS cult which carried over to their personal lives. I and most folks in my very large guild certainly don't see it happening almost on a daily basis with reports being ignored....no, It doesn't exist because the Omniscient Jade1986 never has seen it.

People like you drumbeat for your little special interest but you dismiss out of hand anything you don't agree with.

How typical.

Jade1986

nolangrady wrote: »

Jade1986 wrote: »

Balamoor wrote: »

I'm seriously starting to think they should start suspending people over these dead horse threads.

Thats right, silence the opposition and people raising concerns.....

No it's called crowd control. You guys have a right to voice your opinion as do we. Most are just asking to consolidate your whining. This isn't Reddit and this isn't EA. Crying on the official forums is not going to have the same traction.

So people can blindly support crown crates and insult everyone who is against them, with no consequence, and people voicing concern over the matter and their disgust on the predatory practices should be silenced and banned.

Good.

To.

Know.

Edited for accuracy.

nolangrady

Jade1986 wrote: »

nolangrady wrote: »

Jade1986 wrote: »

Balamoor wrote: »

I'm seriously starting to think they should start suspending people over these dead horse threads.

Thats right, silence the opposition and people raising concerns.....

No it's called crowd control. You guys have a right to voice your opinion as do we. Most are just asking to consolidate your whining. This isn't Reddit and this isn't EA. Crying on the official forums is not going to have the same traction.

So you guys can blindly support crown crates and insult everyone who is against them, with no consequence, and people voicing concern over the matter and their disgust on the predatory practices should be silenced and banned.

Good.

To.

Know.

Where did I say I supported them? I don't buy them but I also don't give a flying F who chooses to. You know what they say about assumptions

Balamoor

Jade1986 wrote: »

Balamoor wrote: »

I'm seriously starting to think they should start suspending people over these dead horse threads.

Thats right, silence the opposition and people raising concerns.....

I don't have the power to silence anyone, but multiple non constructive threads that drone on about the same thing dosen't achieve anything and is more or less temper tantrums

Jade1986

nolangrady wrote: »

Jade1986 wrote: »

nolangrady wrote: »

Jade1986 wrote: »

Balamoor wrote: »

I'm seriously starting to think they should start suspending people over these dead horse threads.

Thats right, silence the opposition and people raising concerns.....

No it's called crowd control. You guys have a right to voice your opinion as do we. Most are just asking to consolidate your whining. This isn't Reddit and this isn't EA. Crying on the official forums is not going to have the same traction.

So you guys can blindly support crown crates and insult everyone who is against them, with no consequence, and people voicing concern over the matter and their disgust on the predatory practices should be silenced and banned.

Good.

To.

Know.

Where did I say I supported them? I don't buy them but I also don't give a flying F who chooses to. You know what they say about assumptions

There, edited, but still true.

ParaNostram

I agree, the controversy needs to stop.

Best way for it to stop is if the industry stops using such predatory business practices trying to milk as much money out of us as they can but them's my two cents.

Jade1986

Balamoor wrote: »

Jade1986 wrote: »

Balamoor wrote: »

Kiralyn2000 wrote: »

Good luck with that, OP. The Internet Rage Machine has gotten good & wound up, and it's not going to stop until Something™ is done.

Given that Something™ is going to be because of ignorant legislatures that are still trying to grasp "digital" & knee-jerk reacting company boards, it's likely to end up - possibly months from now - actually being a bad thing. (i.e, Be Careful What You Wish For...)

Yeah it kind of reminds me of the whole Heavy Metal is evil congressional hearings of the 80's...so you can imagine the type of people on this forum supporting that.

I wouldn't worry though honestly .....as I said in this thread I have actually spoken to folks that know a whole lot more about this than a armchair legislator, and there really isn't much to worry about. What ZoS should be more concerned with is the lunatic fringe that are taking this way too far and harassing folks in game and trying to expose their personal information to the public for the heinous crime of buying crown crates or saying positive tings about them, that is going end up getting ZoS sued, if something bad happens.

Yes, you have spoken to folks that know better. How on earth can we argue with that. And I havent seen, in my experience since beta, a single person harass anyone for having items from crown crates. Stop making stuff up. The problem is crown crates, and if you want more choices to spend your money on, the solution would be get rid of them, if you are concerned about the free market and zos' profit, adding high price apex items for direct purchase would actually get them even more money because peopel would be more inclined to spend money on something where they were guaranteed something useful.

Seriously, you sound like the main character from AHS Cult....

Yeah I'm making stuff up theyr'e aren't reports with ZoS concerning the issues with evidence, there certainly isn't three people who won't play this game that use to be in my guild who got bullied by the PAWS cult which carried over to their personal lives. It doesn't exist because the Omniscient Jade1986 never has seen it.

People like you drumbeat for your little special interest but you dismiss out of hand anything you don't agree with.

How typical.

Hold the phone, THREE people?! Guys, we need to stop everything because these three people got theoretically bullied.

I hope my sarcasm is palpable.

Point is, you are for free market, free market would be better served with direct purchase.

You want choice, ok, direct purchase would benefit that.

You are worried ZoS will be financially damaged from removing them. Yet they wouldnt because more people would be inclined to spend money on things if they know what they are getting.

Everything you argue can be refuted with basic logic and knowledge. And I dont need anonymous "specialists" to tell me that.