Does Warden need a Nerf

Alfie2072

In your own opinion, do you agree or disagree that wardens need a nerf? lets get zos to actually see how we feel

Turelus

No!

Nope. I think they're about the right place with strengths and weaknesses like all other classes.

The only major issue is a stack of Wardens with Drive spam as it can't be countered.

Alfie2072

Yes!

Turelus wrote: »

Nope. I think they're about the right place with strengths and weaknesses like all other classes.

The only major issue is a stack of Wardens with Drive spam as it can't be countered.

i highly agree, personally i think the only things wrong with warden is the spamable birds that you cant counter, and those spider things that get placed on the ground (im not sure what its called)

CatchMeTrolling

No!

No not too long ago everyone was complaining about them being so terrible now that the class has become fotm it’s a different story.

The class doesn’t need a nerf everyone is just catching on to how good the class is (specifically stam Warden) albeit many people knew this already when they first showed the skills and passives but no one believes anything until someone popular says or shows otherwise.

Mureel

No!

Polls for Salty pvpers need a nerf

Alfie2072

Yes!

Mureel wrote: »

Polls for Salty pvpers need a nerf

im not salty at all, actually i havent been killed by a warden all night, just want peoples opinions, but hey thats cool xD

Derra

Yes!

Turelus wrote: »

Nope. I think they're about the right place with strengths and weaknesses like all other classes.

The only major issue is a stack of Wardens with Drive spam as it can't be countered.

You can add shimmering shield to that - it´s far to effective against any projectile based build when you compare costs to benefits - if you add harness or dampen on top it becomes flatout broken.

CatchMeTrolling

No!

Derra wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

Nope. I think they're about the right place with strengths and weaknesses like all other classes.

The only major issue is a stack of Wardens with Drive spam as it can't be countered.

You can add shimmering shield to that - it´s far to effective against any projectile based build when you compare costs to benefits - if you add harness or dampen on top it becomes flatout broken.

Yeah I’d say shimmering plus harness pretty much shuts down most magic builds but I really think shimmering ult regen needs tweaking, it’s the only skill that I think is silly.

Derra

Yes!

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

Nope. I think they're about the right place with strengths and weaknesses like all other classes.

The only major issue is a stack of Wardens with Drive spam as it can't be countered.

You can add shimmering shield to that - it´s far to effective against any projectile based build when you compare costs to benefits - if you add harness or dampen on top it becomes flatout broken.

Yeah I’d say shimmering plus harness pretty much shuts down most magic builds but I really think shimmering ult regen needs tweaking, it’s the only skill that I think is silly.

I have to say i can´t quite pin down what irritates me about shimmering the most. The ult gain is great. The cost ist WAY too low. The absorb is insanely potent defense in itself.

EDIT:
LIke compare it to DK wings:
ultgain far outclasses reflect (imo)
wings reflect 1 projectile more
wings costs more than 5 times as much - WHAT?!?!! (698 magica for shimmering with absorbed projectile magica return figured in compared to 3780 magica for wings)

Having used it myself what irritates me also is the ease of use. It´s the only dmgshield like mechanic that gives clear indication via sound and visual effects when you have to recast it.

CatchMeTrolling

No!

Derra wrote: »

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

Nope. I think they're about the right place with strengths and weaknesses like all other classes.

The only major issue is a stack of Wardens with Drive spam as it can't be countered.

You can add shimmering shield to that - it´s far to effective against any projectile based build when you compare costs to benefits - if you add harness or dampen on top it becomes flatout broken.

Yeah I’d say shimmering plus harness pretty much shuts down most magic builds but I really think shimmering ult regen needs tweaking, it’s the only skill that I think is silly.

I have to say i can´t quite pin down what irritates me about shimmering. The ult gain is great. The cost ist too low. The absorb is insanely potent defense in itself.

Having used it myself what irritates me also is the ease of use. It´s the only dmgshield like mechanic that gives clear indication via sound and visual effects when you have to recast it.

I use it on my magic Warden with the combination of harness plus I run SnB, magic builds just feed magic and ult. Even when you’re out numbered it’s over the top, I think the problem is the ult regen and the combination of sustain/mitigation you can get. I actually have a clip where I had an ult before my ult was over.

Derra

Yes!

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

Nope. I think they're about the right place with strengths and weaknesses like all other classes.

The only major issue is a stack of Wardens with Drive spam as it can't be countered.

You can add shimmering shield to that - it´s far to effective against any projectile based build when you compare costs to benefits - if you add harness or dampen on top it becomes flatout broken.

Yeah I’d say shimmering plus harness pretty much shuts down most magic builds but I really think shimmering ult regen needs tweaking, it’s the only skill that I think is silly.

I have to say i can´t quite pin down what irritates me about shimmering. The ult gain is great. The cost ist too low. The absorb is insanely potent defense in itself.

Having used it myself what irritates me also is the ease of use. It´s the only dmgshield like mechanic that gives clear indication via sound and visual effects when you have to recast it.

I use it on my magic Warden with the combination of harness plus I run SnB, magic builds just feed magic and ult. Even when you’re out numbered it’s over the top, I think the problem is the ult regen and the combination of sustain/mitigation you can get. I actually have a clip where I had an ult before my ult was over.

I´ve edited my post a bit to compare it to DK wings - and got high bloodpressure just looking at the numbers.
WTF is one thinking that designs this nonsense.

Sixty5

Yes!

I'd say turn a portion of Subterranean Assault's damage into a DOT and the class will be in a good place.

Lets you cut down some of their burst in PVP, while not hurting Warden DPS at all in PVE.

Cutting down the upfront damage of the ability means you need to have more of a trade-off between damage and tankiness, and should help move the class into a healthier place overall.

CatchMeTrolling

No!

Derra wrote: »

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

Nope. I think they're about the right place with strengths and weaknesses like all other classes.

The only major issue is a stack of Wardens with Drive spam as it can't be countered.

You can add shimmering shield to that - it´s far to effective against any projectile based build when you compare costs to benefits - if you add harness or dampen on top it becomes flatout broken.

Yeah I’d say shimmering plus harness pretty much shuts down most magic builds but I really think shimmering ult regen needs tweaking, it’s the only skill that I think is silly.

I have to say i can´t quite pin down what irritates me about shimmering. The ult gain is great. The cost ist too low. The absorb is insanely potent defense in itself.

Having used it myself what irritates me also is the ease of use. It´s the only dmgshield like mechanic that gives clear indication via sound and visual effects when you have to recast it.

I use it on my magic Warden with the combination of harness plus I run SnB, magic builds just feed magic and ult. Even when you’re out numbered it’s over the top, I think the problem is the ult regen and the combination of sustain/mitigation you can get. I actually have a clip where I had an ult before my ult was over.

I´ve edited my post a bit to compare it to DK wings - and got high bloodpressure just looking at the numbers.
WTF is one thinking that designs this nonsense.

I don’t usually post clips but this was earlier this month, mind you its NO CP

http://xboxdvr.com/gamer/Zerg Me Down/video/39700935

Mureel

No!

Alfie2072 wrote: »

Mureel wrote: »

Polls for Salty pvpers need a nerf

im not salty at all, actually i havent been killed by a warden all night, just want peoples opinions, but hey thats cool xD

Oh you aren't the first to be all Boo hoo Wardens in PVP xD

Sorry too - I wasn't talking about you directly - even though I see now how it looks like that because you made the poll!

Valencer

Shimmering Shield needs its' magicka restore removed, as a starting point. It refunds itself at the moment while also giving total immunity to projectile damage...

Dive needs to be dodgeable and reflectable (redesign the skill if that makes it impractical to use).

Scorch needs to be blockable and possibly dodgeable too. It's not a ground-targetted AoE and should definitely be blockable like any other PBAoE.

Trees have no real use anymore post-nerf. Up the cost to 150 or so but revert the healing output nerf. Right now you can still spam it to be really hard to kill in a 1v1 but when youre up against multiple people the healing is just insignificant and you might as well use 1h+s ulti. In other words, the ulti has no good use at the moment.

These changes would go a long way to making wardens a little less stupid.

Mojomonkeyman

Hey guys,

maining Warden (magicka) since it came out, heres a small set of changes that (imo) would help Wardens keeping identity & power, while satisfying some of the more ovious complaints. I am speaking strictly from pvp perspective. I am aiming mostly to finetune through ressource management, because I think those changes, combined with the incoming nerfs to block will basically dampen or eliminate most issues that are perceived as grossly overperforming.

However, I intentionally didn`t touch certain aspects, that are complained about because I do think they are a) not as bad as people make it out to be or b) indirectly affected by changes to ressource management. Best example for this would be Dive - I hate that skill, I don't use that skill. Nonetheless, I think its undodgable nature has a place in the game and shouldnt be the first element to consider while modifying.

- Shimmering shield (morphed from Crystallized Shield): 50-100% cost increase
- Subterranean assault (morphed from Scorch): cost increase (mirroring Deep Fissure cost)
- Dive (and morphs): 15% damage decrease, 10-20% cost increase
- Cutting Dive (morphed from Dive): add effect - Minor Breach & Minor Fracture for 10 sec

Please keep in mind that those changes should be accompanied by a set of small buffs to underused (or underperforming) skills & morphs to allow for more diversity, i.e. a 25% cost decrease to arctic wind.

Enjoy.

technohic

No!

Sixty5 wrote: »

I'd say turn a portion of Subterranean Assault's damage into a DOT and the class will be in a good place.

Lets you cut down some of their burst in PVP, while not hurting Warden DPS at all in PVE.

Cutting down the upfront damage of the ability means you need to have more of a trade-off between damage and tankiness, and should help move the class into a healthier place overall.

I think this sort of stuff is really what’s needed. Not nerfed, really. Need to move it a little away from PVP built and more toward PVE.

Ragnaroek93

I don't think that Warden is too strong in general, I would rather describe the class as bad designed. It kinda hardcounters dodge builds and projectile builds which is a bad thing in my opinion and should get reworked.

CatchMeTrolling

No!

I know a lot of people have hate for dive for obvious reasons but if you make it where it's able to be dodged you'd pretty much have to run destro on a mag warden limiting it's options.

Derra

Yes!

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

I know a lot of people have hate for dive for obvious reasons but if you make it where it's able to be dodged you'd pretty much have to run destro on a mag warden limiting it's options.

If they made subassault easier to hit with not really though as dodging would expose you to the stun from sub assault. It would be a tradeoff.

Vapirko

No!

Bird spam. Just make it blockable. No class should have an unavoidable high damage spam. Other than that whatever. No self respecting player spam birds anyway, only zergs.

CatchMeTrolling

No!

Derra wrote: »

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

I know a lot of people have hate for dive for obvious reasons but if you make it where it's able to be dodged you'd pretty much have to run destro on a mag warden limiting it's options.

If they made subassault easier to hit with not really though as dodging would expose you to the stun from sub assault. It would be a tradeoff.

Possibly could work but knowing zos they'll make it where it can be dodged but buff the damage.

Hecker777

No!

Outside of racer spam, I think they are right where they should be. However, I wish that the bear ult was more usable. It was one of the major selling features of the class, and it's pretty much worthless. I love playing my warden, and love how it interplays and counterplays with other classes. (I also don't even have racers on my bar)

WrathOfInnos

No!

Sixty5 wrote: »

I'd say turn a portion of Subterranean Assault's damage into a DOT and the class will be in a good place.

Lets you cut down some of their burst in PVP, while not hurting Warden DPS at all in PVE.

Cutting down the upfront damage of the ability means you need to have more of a trade-off between damage and tankiness, and should help move the class into a healthier place overall.

As a PVE warden, I would say the suggested DoT would need to do its full damage over 3s or this would be a massive DPS loss. Casting the shalks every 3s is key to the class and rotation.

Don't forget that magicka warden DPS in PVE is still far behind other classes (maybe on par with Templar, they are in a bad place too). Any PVP nerfs should be accompanied by a PVE buff.

BroanBeast1215

No!

Some of their skills need reworked but I don't think they need a universal nerf to damage or anything like that

Joy_Division

No!

Some PvPers won't be happy until our classes can only light and heavy attack.

If ZoS hadn't listened to PvPers in the first place and gutted the power and distinctiveness of our classes, then maybe Wardens wouldn't seem so scary OP needing a nerf.

FakeFox

No!

Warden needs some changes that's for sure, but not straight up nerfs.

MrTtheDK

Alfie2072 wrote: »

In your own opinion, do you agree or disagree that wardens need a nerf? lets get zos to actually see how we feel

Personally all classes should be nerfed. I think sustain is still too good. I think a good counter play would be to soft cap resource pools to 20K. Increase costs by 2 and decrease the amount of resources gained from pots, heavy attack, and abilities like ele drain and orbs. This would bring balance back to my RP builds that I like to play in Stonefalls.

Jaimeh

No!

No (even though the pigeons are annoying )

SirCritical

No!

Since PvPers are louder than PvEers, Warden gets nerfed. Period.

Waffennacht

No!

There's a misconception that shimmering acts like a normal shield, each piece has a limited amount of damage to absorb, there is splash damage.