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Everything needed to know about Bow/Bow in PVE - Updated for Stonethorn
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MaselClass Representative
This is how much i can get out on my own on a stamplar on a Bow/Bow Build looking like this, so with major fracture applied it would be a lot more:
With one heavy attack per rotation you can infinitely sustain this...PC EU
All Trial Trifecta Titles Done!
Youtube:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UChVEG6ckuAgGs5OyA6VeisA2 -
SodanTok✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
This is how much i can get out on my own on a stamplar on a Bow/Bow Build looking like this, so with major fracture applied it would be a lot more:
With one heavy attack per rotation you can infinitely sustain this...
Awesome. Havent done proper tests with stamplar since I have no experience playing them, but this looks like they are perfectly fine and capable of great (for bow standards) DPS0 -
Toc de Malsvi✭✭✭✭✭
✭@Masel92 I've found Major Fracture to be no more than 3k increase. Which should put that close to every other bow/bow build.Legendary Archer of ValenwoodBosmer Dragon Knight Archer. XBox One. (Flawless Conqueror Bow/Bow)Bosmer Nightblade Archer. Xbox One. (Flawless Conqueror Bow/Bow)Bosmer Sorcerer Archer. Xbox One. (Flawless Conqueror Bow/Bow)Bosmer Warden Archer. Xbox One. (Flawless Conqueror Bow/Bow)Templar's are evil..0 -
SodanTok✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Toc de Malsvi wrote: »@Masel92 I've found Major Fracture to be no more than 3k increase. Which should put that close to every other bow/bow build.
In his case it would be more. 12-13%0 -
Toc de Malsvi✭✭✭✭✭
✭Toc de Malsvi wrote: »@Masel92 I've found Major Fracture to be no more than 3k increase. Which should put that close to every other bow/bow build.
In his case it would be more. 12-13%
I don't know about that, I haven't found any greater benefit from 5280 pen between the classes. Some have better access to that buff without needing outside help, but the buff itself I have found to perform equally between them all.Legendary Archer of ValenwoodBosmer Dragon Knight Archer. XBox One. (Flawless Conqueror Bow/Bow)Bosmer Nightblade Archer. Xbox One. (Flawless Conqueror Bow/Bow)Bosmer Sorcerer Archer. Xbox One. (Flawless Conqueror Bow/Bow)Bosmer Warden Archer. Xbox One. (Flawless Conqueror Bow/Bow)Templar's are evil..0 -
JobooAGS✭✭✭✭✭
✭So next patch you predict that we would be double baring relentless for bowblades?Edited by JobooAGS on February 7, 2018 2:31PM0 -
SodanTok✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Toc de Malsvi wrote: »Toc de Malsvi wrote: »@Masel92 I've found Major Fracture to be no more than 3k increase. Which should put that close to every other bow/bow build.
In his case it would be more. 12-13%
I don't know about that, I haven't found any greater benefit from 5280 pen between the classes. Some have better access to that buff without needing outside help, but the buff itself I have found to perform equally between them all.
The DPS gain from penetration is fluid. Depending on resistance of enemy and your penetration. 5280 generally means enemy resists ~10% less of damage. But your DPS gain from this is greater the less penetration you already had. Obviously the calculated value does not mean it will be exactly that DPS gain, but it is very close.
But whats most important, it is %. If he did 50000 parse it would be over 5k dps gain. My full pen NB parse was 10.9% better than my 13k pen parse.So next patch you predict that we would be double baring relentless for bowblades?
To be honest, bow NB should have been doing that already. That was mostly mistake on my part. Slotting assassin ability gives +10% crit damage from passive which my recommended build technically lacked. I always had Piercing Mark backbar so it did not impact me, but I forgot to mention it in the guide.Edited by SodanTok on February 7, 2018 5:51PM0 -
Toc de Malsvi✭✭✭✭✭
✭Toc de Malsvi wrote: »Toc de Malsvi wrote: »@Masel92 I've found Major Fracture to be no more than 3k increase. Which should put that close to every other bow/bow build.
In his case it would be more. 12-13%
I don't know about that, I haven't found any greater benefit from 5280 pen between the classes. Some have better access to that buff without needing outside help, but the buff itself I have found to perform equally between them all.
The DPS gain from penetration is fluid. Depending on resistance of enemy and your penetration. 5280 generally means enemy resists ~10% less of damage. But your DPS gain from this is greater the less penetration you already had. Obviously the calculated value does not mean it will be exactly that DPS gain, but it is very close.
But whats most important, it is %. If he did 50000 parse it would be over 5k dps gain. My full pen NB parse was 10.9% better than my 13k pen parse.So next patch you predict that we would be double baring relentless for bowblades?
To be honest, bow NB should have been doing that already. That was mostly mistake on my part. Slotting assassin ability gives +10% crit damage from passive which my recommended build technically lacked. I always had Piercing Mark backbar so it did not impact me, but I forgot to mention it in the guide.
I wanted to prove you wrong, but after some testing it appears that it scales from 16% at no pen, down to zero once you have fully penetrated. And at 12.6k pen before major buffs, it adds 11% which is in concurrence with your statement. Judging from the scaling it should increase by 13% for that setup, which would net around 38k.
Legendary Archer of ValenwoodBosmer Dragon Knight Archer. XBox One. (Flawless Conqueror Bow/Bow)Bosmer Nightblade Archer. Xbox One. (Flawless Conqueror Bow/Bow)Bosmer Sorcerer Archer. Xbox One. (Flawless Conqueror Bow/Bow)Bosmer Warden Archer. Xbox One. (Flawless Conqueror Bow/Bow)Templar's are evil..1 -
SodanTok✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Toc de Malsvi wrote: »Toc de Malsvi wrote: »Toc de Malsvi wrote: »@Masel92 I've found Major Fracture to be no more than 3k increase. Which should put that close to every other bow/bow build.
In his case it would be more. 12-13%
I don't know about that, I haven't found any greater benefit from 5280 pen between the classes. Some have better access to that buff without needing outside help, but the buff itself I have found to perform equally between them all.
The DPS gain from penetration is fluid. Depending on resistance of enemy and your penetration. 5280 generally means enemy resists ~10% less of damage. But your DPS gain from this is greater the less penetration you already had. Obviously the calculated value does not mean it will be exactly that DPS gain, but it is very close.
But whats most important, it is %. If he did 50000 parse it would be over 5k dps gain. My full pen NB parse was 10.9% better than my 13k pen parse.So next patch you predict that we would be double baring relentless for bowblades?
To be honest, bow NB should have been doing that already. That was mostly mistake on my part. Slotting assassin ability gives +10% crit damage from passive which my recommended build technically lacked. I always had Piercing Mark backbar so it did not impact me, but I forgot to mention it in the guide.
I wanted to prove you wrong, but after some testing it appears that it scales from 16% at no pen, down to zero once you have fully penetrated. And at 12.6k pen before major buffs, it adds 11% which is in concurrence with your statement. Judging from the scaling it should increase by 13% for that setup, which would net around 38k.
Yes, the math is simple. (penetration gained) / (50000 - 18200 + penetration you already have)0 -
Toc de Malsvi✭✭✭✭✭
✭Toc de Malsvi wrote: »Toc de Malsvi wrote: »Toc de Malsvi wrote: »@Masel92 I've found Major Fracture to be no more than 3k increase. Which should put that close to every other bow/bow build.
In his case it would be more. 12-13%
I don't know about that, I haven't found any greater benefit from 5280 pen between the classes. Some have better access to that buff without needing outside help, but the buff itself I have found to perform equally between them all.
The DPS gain from penetration is fluid. Depending on resistance of enemy and your penetration. 5280 generally means enemy resists ~10% less of damage. But your DPS gain from this is greater the less penetration you already had. Obviously the calculated value does not mean it will be exactly that DPS gain, but it is very close.
But whats most important, it is %. If he did 50000 parse it would be over 5k dps gain. My full pen NB parse was 10.9% better than my 13k pen parse.So next patch you predict that we would be double baring relentless for bowblades?
To be honest, bow NB should have been doing that already. That was mostly mistake on my part. Slotting assassin ability gives +10% crit damage from passive which my recommended build technically lacked. I always had Piercing Mark backbar so it did not impact me, but I forgot to mention it in the guide.
I wanted to prove you wrong, but after some testing it appears that it scales from 16% at no pen, down to zero once you have fully penetrated. And at 12.6k pen before major buffs, it adds 11% which is in concurrence with your statement. Judging from the scaling it should increase by 13% for that setup, which would net around 38k.
Yes, the math is simple. (penetration gained) / (50000 - 18200 + penetration you already have)
Well I was very aware that it scaled, however I thought it scaled closer to 10%, something more in the range of 11% max to 8% min provided there was no over-penetration. I hadn't thoroughly tested it though and only gone of rough values from accumulated dps tests.Edited by Toc de Malsvi on February 7, 2018 9:15PMLegendary Archer of ValenwoodBosmer Dragon Knight Archer. XBox One. (Flawless Conqueror Bow/Bow)Bosmer Nightblade Archer. Xbox One. (Flawless Conqueror Bow/Bow)Bosmer Sorcerer Archer. Xbox One. (Flawless Conqueror Bow/Bow)Bosmer Warden Archer. Xbox One. (Flawless Conqueror Bow/Bow)Templar's are evil..0 -
JobooAGS✭✭✭✭✭
✭Hmm, I thought of something that may help the survivability of bow builds: Replace the essentialy useless passive of longshots with something that gives you a damage shield of x value that stacks with each hawkeye passive that is above 5. This will not be a buff to melee stam as you are likely not going to have a stack of 6 or more hawkeye stacks without sacrificing some dps, and bow builds are, barring mechanics and resurrections, are not going to lose their hawkeye stacks. If it is too strong, a cooldown can be added to it ie. increased shields every 2 seconds or something.0 -
exiars10✭✭✭New report
.
I used ESO Build Editor to experiment with sets outside the trials‘ one because I don‘t play them. And really for solo player who doesn‘t have access to special weapons (like me) Kra‘gh + Hunding‘s + Spriggan is the best combo. Sure, for group dungeons NMG is better but there is a epidemy of fake tanks and healers so Hunding‘s > NMG. And I didn‘t know that physical penetration is the most important in killing...
So yea, SodanTok was right about gear in my case and for „selfish“ solo players.
Another thing about gear: I changed disease glyph to weapon glyph for the back bar bow. I‘m finally researching nirnhoned for bow and as I read, it‘s the best solution and I badly need it for PvP. Is changing sharpened back bar bow to nirnhoned worth or not?
I changed Mundus Stone from the Warrior to Serpent and used standard max health + max stamina food and it‘s not worth as I got both DPS and healing loss so I got back to Warrior and Orzorga‘s Triple Trifle Pocket food.
I reseted skills (had some 15+ redudant one… – payed 12,8k), and went a bit exotic to say at least. I watched Gilliamtherogue‘s videos about DW, bow, FG and all three NB trees. I changed a bit skills to suit my solo playstyle and to be simple as possible.
1) Lethal Arrow – Acid Spray – Poison Injection – Reaper‘s Mark – Camouflaged Hunter // Dawnbreaker of Smithing
2) Swallow Soul – Endless Hail – Resolving Vigor – Killer‘s Blade – Razor Caltrops // Soul Harvest
First about ultimate – I still use Ballista against world and some group bosses but otherwise no. When killing Daedra and Undead, ultimate generation is stupidly broken. I drop DoS non-stop. I need that skill for PvP and utility (stun) is fantastic for bow/bow build in PvE. Stunning charging melee trash or when you get overrun is priceless. Soul Harvest + Dawnbreaker of Smithing is disgusting combo.
Reaper‘s Mark is brutal. It‘s cheap and I use it almost always. Heal is huge. This ability perfectly fit for the bow/bow assassin play.
About Trap Beast – I agree with Gilliamtherogue comment here. Lightweight version is just not worth. I still have Rearming one, I use it with DW/bow combo but rarely with 2x bow. Camouflaged Hunter is obviously slotted for passive bonuses
and another thing is I always attack from crouch – old habit from FPS games plus Bosmer RP 
. So…
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/4527037/#Comment_4527037
I rarely use Swallow Soul – it‘s slotted for passive when I use Vigor. I still have Relentless Focus and Leeching Strikes for DW/bow combo.
Lastly, I plan to try normal trials just try to farm Vicious Serpent set. When I enter Craglorn I see people constantly organize normal trial groups, so it would be nice to have it for dungeons. Which one is easiest to farm? I read conflicting info.
Also, @SodanTok.
https://www.reddit.com/r/elderscrollsonline/comments/7w6vud/discussion_best_pve_archerbow_build/dty3ny0/?st=jdk7flf5&sh=dfb94298I don't play ESO since 15.06. because Cyrodiil is broken since Summerset (PvE isn't much better, too)...
Aldmeri Dominion (PC Europe via Steam)
The cowardly Wood Elves are best noted for their unwillingness to engage in a face-to-face attack; a Bosmer will strike at you from every side except the front. You won't cross swords with a Bosmer, but you might catch an arrow in the throat. Be wary in forests and jungles, and watch your back.0 -
SodanTok✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭@exiars10
Many good points, I will try to respond in more condensed manner:
Yes, nirn is worth it over sharpened if you have transmutation crystals to spare (or mats). Nirn is always useful, sharpened only sometimes (with low penetration)
I dont feel you really need swallow soul, but what suits you.
As for trap. I never really agreed with Gilliam on this. He is MUCH better, more knowledgeable guy, but in my personal tests, using trap is always better than not using it. From his responses I dont think he was doing any serious tests with it and ranged builds (well, who does serious test with ranged builds anyway).
All craglorn trials are easy. But nobody does nHRC, people generally dislike nAA too and nSO is just very simple with mechanics and drops the best gear, because while all 3 of them can drop VO. nSO can also drop TFS.
Edited by SodanTok on February 12, 2018 2:01PM2 -
Jowrik✭✭✭@exiars10
Yes, nirn is worth it over sharpened if you have transmutation crystals to spare (or mats). Nirn is always useful, sharpened only sometimes (with low penetration)
Hey man,
Would you consider it worth running Infused on your Master's Bow with a Poison enchant instead of Nirnhoned & slotting crafted poison (which would probably be better but more expensive)? Second, I don't see how Razor caltrops outperforms Anti-cavalry caltrops. If i'm not mistaking, ACC gives you 2 sec extra dot uptime of say 1k per sec while RC gives you 1k up front but is lower in duration by 2sec. Am I missing something here?
Currently running this setup on my stamblade:
- TFS+VO+vDSA+vMA
- vDSA: PI, FA, ACC, LWT, RF, Ballista (gets bonus from vDSA+PI if on front bar, worth?? Or swap with FD?)
- vMA: Impale, AS, EH, Mirage, LS, Flawless Dawnbreaker
- The Lover
I read people slotting Silver Shards on the front bar & moving caltrops to the backbar (instead of impale). Would reduce my crit by a little but I can see how Silver Shards could be an addition (passively as aswell as an active skill for AoE after AS dot).
Food is camoran, potions are tri-stat Weapon power. One recovery glyph on jewelry, rest WD.
Stam recovery without potion active: about 1.6k.
Only getting about 33k DPS though I get the feeling I could push higher & my numbers are off somewhere....
Any feedback is greatly appreciated!
ThanksEdited by Jowrik on February 13, 2018 11:46AMNightblade - Khajiit - Rha'Viir
PC - EU - Aldmeri Dominion0 -
exiars10✭✭✭Anti-Cavalry Caltrops are pure PvP skill and it's useless for PvE. What's the point of prolonged duration when you can freely run through it? You completely missed that Razor morph when the ball of caltrops initially explodes it deals immediate damage and briefly snares for more. Big (huge?) difference.I am not expert in any way, but for limited knowledge it's clear why nobody uses it.
Silver Shards are c*ap for PvE. Just compare it to Shrouded Daggers (DW) which is niche skill and then you realize how really bad is. But SodanTok will better explain, I am sure.
@SodanTok
Thank you for your answer. I have 70+ TC and we (Dominion) are alredy winner in Vivec so I'll get another 50 TC just in time of research so it's really not a problem to spend it. I already buy and use Woodworking research scrolls every day to speed up research...
Do you offer help with PvP bow/bow gear (not skills, just gear)? I read a lot of older threads and you commented very often. I don't play ESO since 15.06. because Cyrodiil is broken since Summerset (PvE isn't much better, too)...
Aldmeri Dominion (PC Europe via Steam)
The cowardly Wood Elves are best noted for their unwillingness to engage in a face-to-face attack; a Bosmer will strike at you from every side except the front. You won't cross swords with a Bosmer, but you might catch an arrow in the throat. Be wary in forests and jungles, and watch your back.0 -
Jowrik✭✭✭Anti-Cavalry Caltrops are pure PvP skill and it's useless for PvE. What's the point of prolonged duration when you can freely run through it? You completely missed that Razor morph when the ball of caltrops initially explodes it deals immediate damage and briefly snares for more. Big (huge?) difference.I am not expert in any way, but for limited knowledge it's clear why nobody uses it.
Silver Shards are c*ap for PvE. Just compare it to Shrouded Daggers (DW) which is niche skill and then you realize how really bad is. But SodanTok will better explain, I am sure.
I didn't completely miss that Razer deals immediate damage, if you read what I typed that's what I stated with fictional numbers...
Also, you can't "freely run through it". The increased snare (from 30% to 70%) for PVE is nominal since mobs don't tend to run around that much anyway and in group content they're already going to be affected by other player's abilities with movement imparing effects.
Left side: ACC --> 1808 x 14s == 25 312
Right side: RC --> 1752 x 12s + 2159 == 23 183
Even if RC DoT was 1808 aswell, that would make 23 855
Therefor, my question still stands. Am I missing something here?
You didn't state why Silver Shards would be crap. Slotting it increases your Weapon damage by 3% (Slayer passive FG) and does the usual increased dps versus undead, werewolf, ...
This guy actually slots it and pushes 38k DPS. which is why i'm wondering if it's worth running.Edited by Jowrik on February 13, 2018 11:20AMNightblade - Khajiit - Rha'Viir
PC - EU - Aldmeri Dominion0 -
exiars10✭✭✭Why would you use Silver Shards for AoE when you already have Acid Spray or even Bombard? That reddit guy uses Silver Shards as AoE option because of stamina sustain problem with his setup.
And melee mob move/charge/run so Razor Caltrops are wastly better as they stack, too and mob will die faster so 2 sec more is a joke. Anti-Cavalry Caltrops are used in PvP so you can "slow down" mounted chase AFAIK.I don't play ESO since 15.06. because Cyrodiil is broken since Summerset (PvE isn't much better, too)...
Aldmeri Dominion (PC Europe via Steam)
The cowardly Wood Elves are best noted for their unwillingness to engage in a face-to-face attack; a Bosmer will strike at you from every side except the front. You won't cross swords with a Bosmer, but you might catch an arrow in the throat. Be wary in forests and jungles, and watch your back.0 -
Jowrik✭✭✭Why would you use Silver Shards for AoE when you already have Acid Spray or even Bombard? That reddit guy uses Silver Shards as AoE option because of stamina sustain problem with his setup.
And melee mob move/charge/run so Razor Caltrops are wastly better as they stack, too and mob will die faster so 2 sec more is a joke. Anti-Cavalry Caltrops are used in PvP so you can "slow down" mounted chase AFAIK.
Well, I guess for AoE i'd use Caltrops, Hail, Acid Spray & weave LA+Silver shards until either DoT runs out. Should (maybe) output more than HA+Acid Spray though I haven't tested that yet. It might actually be quite close to each other.
We're talking bow PVE here right? Bombard won't be used at all obviously, unless you REALLY need a permasnare for some reason. Melee mobs are usually tanked, but even if you'd solo a pack of mobs you're having quite an easy job with just the 30% snare & running around them. Oh yeah, Acid Spray gives you an extra 40% snare so there you have your 70%.
Unless Razor Caltrops is considered a 'direct damage ability' and Anti-Cav isn't (because of the immediate damage hit) I could see it being buffed more by CP. This would mean that Razor would be buffed by Thaumaturge + Master at arms whilst Anti-Cav is just buffed by Thaumaturge. Maybe the immediate damage from Razor is buffed by Master at Arms which would put it slightly above Anti-Cav. I guess that's what's gonna make the difference.
Rotation wise, an extra 2s on Anti-Cav could allow you to insert an additional Snipe too.
I think that saying Anti-Cav is a purely PVP skill == BS unless the above is true.Edited by Jowrik on February 13, 2018 12:21PMNightblade - Khajiit - Rha'Viir
PC - EU - Aldmeri Dominion0 -
SodanTok✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭@Jowrik
Firstly, silvershards are very bad skill. Both as aoe (compared to acid spray) and single target (compared to snipe or dive). That is, it is perfectly fine to slot it if you have free bar space on any snipe build for some fights where it can be tricky to cast snipe. It will always underperform and drain your resources quickly tho.
As for caltrops. Razor deals more damage. It is that simple. You will cast both caltrops every 11 seconds anyway, gaining nothing from the longer duration (and if you try to just cast caltrops whenever they run out, you will greatly complicate your rotation)
And for the bow. My nirn comment was for backbar one. On your frontbar you want infused with poison enchant every time on redguard, and for other races you may use nirn with poison (more aoe damage) but it is not a big deal
Also I dont know why would you use Impale. Use either killer blade or nothing. Then it all comes to practice really. Everything i say in the guide should push nightblade this patch to around 37k definitely (against dummy, with TFS and warrior).
I read and replied on phone so feel free to point out some questions I may have missed
@exiars10 I dont need to offer any pvp bow/something build. At least not for the 4 classes that arent warden. There is perfect build by DDuke that does everything right and leads to nearly same gear/skill/cp choices I would make and I am making (main difference I still go for backbar 2h with rally)Edited by SodanTok on February 13, 2018 1:38PM0 -
exiars10✭✭✭Hemorrhage passive is bugged and broken :-/...I don't play ESO since 15.06. because Cyrodiil is broken since Summerset (PvE isn't much better, too)...
Aldmeri Dominion (PC Europe via Steam)
The cowardly Wood Elves are best noted for their unwillingness to engage in a face-to-face attack; a Bosmer will strike at you from every side except the front. You won't cross swords with a Bosmer, but you might catch an arrow in the throat. Be wary in forests and jungles, and watch your back.1 -
Jowrik✭✭✭@Jowrik
Firstly, silvershards are very bad skill. Both as aoe (compared to acid spray) and single target (compared to snipe or dive). That is, it is perfectly fine to slot it if you have free bar space on any snipe build for some fights where it can be tricky to cast snipe. It will always underperform and drain your resources quickly tho.
As for caltrops. Razor deals more damage. It is that simple. You will cast both caltrops every 11 seconds anyway, gaining nothing from the longer duration (and if you try to just cast caltrops whenever they run out, you will greatly complicate your rotation)
And for the bow. My nirn comment was for backbar one. On your frontbar you want infused with poison enchant every time on redguard, and for other races you may use nirn with poison (more aoe damage) but it is not a big deal
Also I dont know why would you use Impale. Use either killer blade or nothing. Then it all comes to practice really. Everything i say in the guide should push nightblade this patch to around 37k definitely (against dummy, with TFS and warrior).
I read and replied on phone so feel free to point out some questions I may have missed
@exiars10 I dont need to offer any pvp bow/something build. At least not for the 4 classes that arent warden. There is perfect build by DDuke that does everything right and leads to nearly same gear/skill/cp choices I would make and I am making (main difference I still go for backbar 2h with rally)
Hey, thanks for the insight!
Could you state how Razor deals more damage? According to my (albeit petty) calculations above the Anti-Cav does more, provided it finishes it's 14s rotation (refreshing at 13s). I don't seem to have major issues keeping up my rotation without cutting short my caltrops I think, but I felt it allowed me to do one extra snipe in between. That being said i'll do some testing with Razer later tonight.
I stated Impale but meant Killer's Blade ofcourse >.<
Edited by Jowrik on February 13, 2018 2:11PMNightblade - Khajiit - Rha'Viir
PC - EU - Aldmeri Dominion0 -
SodanTok✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭@Jowrik
Firstly, silvershards are very bad skill. Both as aoe (compared to acid spray) and single target (compared to snipe or dive). That is, it is perfectly fine to slot it if you have free bar space on any snipe build for some fights where it can be tricky to cast snipe. It will always underperform and drain your resources quickly tho.
As for caltrops. Razor deals more damage. It is that simple. You will cast both caltrops every 11 seconds anyway, gaining nothing from the longer duration (and if you try to just cast caltrops whenever they run out, you will greatly complicate your rotation)
And for the bow. My nirn comment was for backbar one. On your frontbar you want infused with poison enchant every time on redguard, and for other races you may use nirn with poison (more aoe damage) but it is not a big deal
Also I dont know why would you use Impale. Use either killer blade or nothing. Then it all comes to practice really. Everything i say in the guide should push nightblade this patch to around 37k definitely (against dummy, with TFS and warrior).
I read and replied on phone so feel free to point out some questions I may have missed
@exiars10 I dont need to offer any pvp bow/something build. At least not for the 4 classes that arent warden. There is perfect build by DDuke that does everything right and leads to nearly same gear/skill/cp choices I would make and I am making (main difference I still go for backbar 2h with rally)
Hey, thanks for the insight!
Could you state how Razor deals more damage? According to my (albeit petty) calculations above the Anti-Cav does more, provided it finishes it's 14s rotation (refreshing at 13s). I don't seem to have major issues keeping up my rotation without cutting short my caltrops I think, but I felt it allowed me to do one extra snipe in between. That being said i'll do some testing with Razer later tonight.
I stated Impale but meant Killer's Blade ofcourse >.<
Ok look at it this way. 100% time of your DPSing, there will be caltrops. So the aoe DoT DPS will be exactly same from both, but razor gives you the explosion bonus.
So the only advantage is that you may cast anti cavalry less than razor therefore saving resources. But this does not happen. You use endless hail and it lasts 10seconds (and takes like almost 2 sec to cast), so every 12 seconds you are on your backbar recasting abilities. And here is your caltrops. You either recast it too (at 12s mark) or you swap to front bar, do 2s of something, swap again to backbar and cast caltrops.
It will be less DPS.
//edit:
There is one place for anti cavalry. Rotation i was experimenting that did resulted in worse DPS and was much more complex so I dropped it. That was ~8 second rotation using the other morph of volley (barrage I think) and casted caltrops only once every 2 rotations. Would not recommend this one. There was no time for heavy attack.Edited by SodanTok on February 13, 2018 2:37PM1 -
Jowrik✭✭✭
Ok look at it this way. 100% time of your DPSing, there will be caltrops. So the aoe DoT DPS will be exactly same from both, but razor gives you the explosion bonus.
So the only advantage is that you may cast anti cavalry less than razor therefore saving resources. But this does not happen. You use endless hail and it lasts 10seconds (and takes like almost 2 sec to cast), so every 12 seconds you are on your backbar recasting abilities. And here is your caltrops. You either recast it too (at 12s mark) or you swap to front bar, do 2s of something, swap again to backbar and cast caltrops.
What if you used snipe in that 2s time frame and have Caltrops on ur front bar instead ?
My current ability bar looks like this:
Master's bow: Poison Injection, Focused Aim, Anti-Cav Caltrops, Lightweight Trap, Relentless Focus, Flawless Dawnbreaker
vMA bow: Mirage/Vigor, Acid Spray, Endless Hail, Leeching Strikes, Relentless Focus, Ballista
I admit my rotation might not always be flawless, sometimes missing the time frame for 2nd RF proc. Hope that works better with the new patch now.Edited by Jowrik on February 13, 2018 2:57PMNightblade - Khajiit - Rha'Viir
PC - EU - Aldmeri Dominion0 -
SodanTok✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
Ok look at it this way. 100% time of your DPSing, there will be caltrops. So the aoe DoT DPS will be exactly same from both, but razor gives you the explosion bonus.
So the only advantage is that you may cast anti cavalry less than razor therefore saving resources. But this does not happen. You use endless hail and it lasts 10seconds (and takes like almost 2 sec to cast), so every 12 seconds you are on your backbar recasting abilities. And here is your caltrops. You either recast it too (at 12s mark) or you swap to front bar, do 2s of something, swap again to backbar and cast caltrops.
What if you used snipe in that 2s time frame and have Caltrops on ur front bar instead ?
My current ability bar looks like this:
Master's bow: Poison Injection, Focused Aim, Anti-Cav Caltrops, Lightweight Trap, Relentless Focus, Flawless Dawnbreaker
vMA bow: Mirage/Vigor, Acid Spray, Endless Hail, Leeching Strikes, Relentless Focus, Ballista
I admit my rotation might not always be flawless, sometimes missing the time frame for 2nd RF proc. Hope that works better with the new patch now.
Think about it. If your rotation is every 12s but you constantly cast ability at 14. It is bound to eventually happen at wrong time, since in one big fight, you will literally use every 0,2,4,6,....12 'milestone' to cast it since it moves by 2s Plus it is caltrops, the BEST way to cast caltrops is to cast them and instantly bar swap.
And as I said, you arent getting really DPS. You are saving stamina. Low amount of stamina. You basically trade the damage of explosion and the simplicity of rotation (and swapping when casting it) for 36 stam/secEdited by SodanTok on February 13, 2018 3:04PM1 -
Jowrik✭✭✭
Ok look at it this way. 100% time of your DPSing, there will be caltrops. So the aoe DoT DPS will be exactly same from both, but razor gives you the explosion bonus.
So the only advantage is that you may cast anti cavalry less than razor therefore saving resources. But this does not happen. You use endless hail and it lasts 10seconds (and takes like almost 2 sec to cast), so every 12 seconds you are on your backbar recasting abilities. And here is your caltrops. You either recast it too (at 12s mark) or you swap to front bar, do 2s of something, swap again to backbar and cast caltrops.
What if you used snipe in that 2s time frame and have Caltrops on ur front bar instead ?
My current ability bar looks like this:
Master's bow: Poison Injection, Focused Aim, Anti-Cav Caltrops, Lightweight Trap, Relentless Focus, Flawless Dawnbreaker
vMA bow: Mirage/Vigor, Acid Spray, Endless Hail, Leeching Strikes, Relentless Focus, Ballista
I admit my rotation might not always be flawless, sometimes missing the time frame for 2nd RF proc. Hope that works better with the new patch now.
Think about it. If your rotation is every 12s but you constantly cast ability at 14. It is bound to eventually happen at wrong time, since in one big fight, you will literally use every 0,2,4,6,....12 'milestone' to cast it since it moves by 2s Plus it is caltrops, the BEST way to cast caltrops is to cast them and instantly bar swap.
And as I said, you arent getting really DPS. You are saving stamina. Low amount of stamina. You basically trade the damage of explosion and the simplicity of rotation (and swapping when casting it) for 36 stam/sec
Alright, thanks for debunking ! Appreciate it alot I could never really get my head around it. I think i'll move AS to the front bar & put caltrops on the backbar & barswap it like you said. Nightblade - Khajiit - Rha'Viir
PC - EU - Aldmeri Dominion0 -
JobooAGS✭✭✭✭✭
✭Did zos make changes to damage to skills? I did the same rotation on my bowblade this patch, the only difference is I put in the 10 points we are allowed to put in into maa and I got less dps overall... same build same rotation...0 -
SodanTok✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Dont know about anything like that. But If I went to try rotation I would do less DPS just because of the weapon swap bug.0 -
@SodanTok
Just a quick question
For non-NBs without the Minor Berserk skill, can't they use Slimecraw Monster Set for the Minor Berserk? Is that viable?With strength and intelligence comes hard work.
Which is why not a lot of people are strong nor intelligent.0
This discussion has been closed.