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Igneous Shield Formula?

Texecutioner187
Texecutioner187
✭✭✭
Can someone tell me the formula for Igneous Shield? A friend has a larger shield than I do, but I have more HP and Bastion CP.... I'm sure there's something I'm missing.... anyone?
  • WaltherCarraway
    WaltherCarraway
    ✭✭✭✭
    It really scales on your HP
    anyDK CP800+; EP Hit Squad; I have Striped Senche Tiger mount.

    VDSA, VMA checked
    I don't really give a hoot about whether you're good at an online game or not.

    I enjoy killing foes with the most underperforming class. If the game has too many wanabe assassin rogues, their failed gank tears infiltrate the groundwater.

    If you think you've been treated unfairly here on these forums, you can file a support ticket by going to https://help.elderscrollsonline.com and clicking Additional Support at the bottom. Then click your platform, click on Account, select "I need help with a forum account," and choose the Forum Appeal option.
  • Texecutioner187
    Texecutioner187
    ✭✭✭
    And nothing e
    It really scales on your HP

    And nothing else?
  • WaltherCarraway
    WaltherCarraway
    ✭✭✭✭
    0.10002 * Health

    cc: uesp eso skill page
    anyDK CP800+; EP Hit Squad; I have Striped Senche Tiger mount.

    VDSA, VMA checked
    I don't really give a hoot about whether you're good at an online game or not.

    I enjoy killing foes with the most underperforming class. If the game has too many wanabe assassin rogues, their failed gank tears infiltrate the groundwater.

    If you think you've been treated unfairly here on these forums, you can file a support ticket by going to https://help.elderscrollsonline.com and clicking Additional Support at the bottom. Then click your platform, click on Account, select "I need help with a forum account," and choose the Forum Appeal option.
  • WaltherCarraway
    WaltherCarraway
    ✭✭✭✭
    You’ve got it!
    anyDK CP800+; EP Hit Squad; I have Striped Senche Tiger mount.

    VDSA, VMA checked
    I don't really give a hoot about whether you're good at an online game or not.

    I enjoy killing foes with the most underperforming class. If the game has too many wanabe assassin rogues, their failed gank tears infiltrate the groundwater.

    If you think you've been treated unfairly here on these forums, you can file a support ticket by going to https://help.elderscrollsonline.com and clicking Additional Support at the bottom. Then click your platform, click on Account, select "I need help with a forum account," and choose the Forum Appeal option.
  • Liofa
    Liofa
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    The self shield is 1/5 of your Max Health . The shield you give to allies is 1/10 of your Max Health . This can be boosted by Bastion . I assume you do not know this information and expect the same shield size on everyone whenever an Igneous Shield is cast . I do not see any other way what you say could happen .
    Liofa Daeron - Dunmer DK PvP Tank

    Liofa Thilvern - Imperial Warden PvE Tank

    Youtube

    Guild Master of Call of the Undaunted
  • Texecutioner187
    Texecutioner187
    ✭✭✭
    Liofa wrote: »
    I assume you do not know this information and expect the same shield size on everyone whenever an Igneous Shield is cast . I do not see any other way what you say could happen .

    That is an incorrect assumption. I expect the Igneous Shield to scale from Health and Bastion points and if I have a greater HP pool and more points in Bastion than my friend, then I would imagine to get a greater Igneous Shield than them, however this is not the case.
  • Liofa
    Liofa
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    jgruberman wrote: »
    Liofa wrote: »
    I assume you do not know this information and expect the same shield size on everyone whenever an Igneous Shield is cast . I do not see any other way what you say could happen .

    That is an incorrect assumption. I expect the Igneous Shield to scale from Health and Bastion points and if I have a greater HP pool and more points in Bastion than my friend, then I would imagine to get a greater Igneous Shield than them, however this is not the case.

    Let me get this correctly . You have higher HP pool and more points into Bastion . You cast Igneous Shield and get -let's say- 10k shield on yourself and give your friend a shield of 5k . And there is your friend , who has lower HP pool and fewer points into Bastion . He cast the skill and gets -let's say- 20k shield on himself and a 10k shield on you . Is this correct ?
    Liofa Daeron - Dunmer DK PvP Tank

    Liofa Thilvern - Imperial Warden PvE Tank

    Youtube

    Guild Master of Call of the Undaunted
  • Texecutioner187
    Texecutioner187
    ✭✭✭
    Liofa wrote: »
    jgruberman wrote: »
    Liofa wrote: »
    I assume you do not know this information and expect the same shield size on everyone whenever an Igneous Shield is cast . I do not see any other way what you say could happen .

    That is an incorrect assumption. I expect the Igneous Shield to scale from Health and Bastion points and if I have a greater HP pool and more points in Bastion than my friend, then I would imagine to get a greater Igneous Shield than them, however this is not the case.

    Let me get this correctly . You have higher HP pool and more points into Bastion . You cast Igneous Shield and get -let's say- 10k shield on yourself and give your friend a shield of 5k . And there is your friend , who has lower HP pool and fewer points into Bastion . He cast the skill and gets -let's say- 20k shield on himself and a 10k shield on you . Is this correct ?

    More specifically.... I cast and get 5k, he casts and gets 8k. I have higher HP and more points into Bastion. The secondary shield on allies is not part of the equation in my example
  • Liofa
    Liofa
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    jgruberman wrote: »
    Liofa wrote: »
    jgruberman wrote: »
    Liofa wrote: »
    I assume you do not know this information and expect the same shield size on everyone whenever an Igneous Shield is cast . I do not see any other way what you say could happen .

    That is an incorrect assumption. I expect the Igneous Shield to scale from Health and Bastion points and if I have a greater HP pool and more points in Bastion than my friend, then I would imagine to get a greater Igneous Shield than them, however this is not the case.

    Let me get this correctly . You have higher HP pool and more points into Bastion . You cast Igneous Shield and get -let's say- 10k shield on yourself and give your friend a shield of 5k . And there is your friend , who has lower HP pool and fewer points into Bastion . He cast the skill and gets -let's say- 20k shield on himself and a 10k shield on you . Is this correct ?

    More specifically.... I cast and get 5k, he casts and gets 8k. I have higher HP and more points into Bastion. The secondary shield on allies is not part of the equation in my example

    Are you in Cyrodiil and your friend is not ? Battle Spirit buff reduces the effectiveness of damage shields on you by 50% . If not , I am clueless :/
    Liofa Daeron - Dunmer DK PvP Tank

    Liofa Thilvern - Imperial Warden PvE Tank

    Youtube

    Guild Master of Call of the Undaunted
  • Texecutioner187
    Texecutioner187
    ✭✭✭
    Nope, both in PvE. :neutral:
  • Lightspeedflashb14_ESO
    Lightspeedflashb14_ESO
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Screenshots or video would go a long way
    and exactly how much of everything thing you have described, have you considered your friend might be confused or mistaken?
  • Texecutioner187
    Texecutioner187
    ✭✭✭
    This was miscommunication between my friend and I. They were calculating the shield base protection, PLUS the 200% extra. 4k shield + 200% extra = 8k of their shield.... while I was JUST looking at the 5k shield number and not taking into account the 200% :smile:

    On the bright side, I got to do some research on DK shielding formulas so I learned something from the experience :)
  • GreenhaloX
    GreenhaloX
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Right now, if you're not a DK tank with at least 40k hp, Igneous Shield isn't even worth it. It is so crap and disheartening for a Stam or MagDK. Even all those DK tanks running around with 20-30k hp, it isn't helping much at world boss pits, trials or vet dungeons. You're better off right now with Bone Shield, if you're not a high hp level DK tank.
  • paulsimonps
    paulsimonps
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    ✭✭✭
    GreenhaloX wrote: »
    Right now, if you're not a DK tank with at least 40k hp, Igneous Shield isn't even worth it. It is so crap and disheartening for a Stam or MagDK. Even all those DK tanks running around with 20-30k hp, it isn't helping much at world boss pits, trials or vet dungeons. You're better off right now with Bone Shield, if you're not a high hp level DK tank.

    30k HP Tanks with Igneous is just fine, not sure what you are talking about. Plus DKs don't just use Igneous for the shield you know..... The stamina return is a big thing there. If there was no stamina return for the shields you would see tanks use it A LOT less.
  • Ragnarock41
    Ragnarock41
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    GreenhaloX wrote: »
    Right now, if you're not a DK tank with at least 40k hp, Igneous Shield isn't even worth it. It is so crap and disheartening for a Stam or MagDK. Even all those DK tanks running around with 20-30k hp, it isn't helping much at world boss pits, trials or vet dungeons. You're better off right now with Bone Shield, if you're not a high hp level DK tank.

    30k HP Tanks with Igneous is just fine, not sure what you are talking about. Plus DKs don't just use Igneous for the shield you know..... The stamina return is a big thing there. If there was no stamina return for the shields you would see tanks use it A LOT less.

    for PvP stamDks Its also quite useful,

    The shield is veeery tiny on a Dk built for damage especially in PvP but It will still stop a big hit from critting you, if you time it just right, then it gives 3 seconds of major mending so you can heal after that,you get stamina returns, it procs mountain blessing which is minor brutaltiy+ a few ultimate points.

    I tried having so many other things but nothing replaces its self utility.
  • GreenhaloX
    GreenhaloX
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    GreenhaloX wrote: »
    Right now, if you're not a DK tank with at least 40k hp, Igneous Shield isn't even worth it. It is so crap and disheartening for a Stam or MagDK. Even all those DK tanks running around with 20-30k hp, it isn't helping much at world boss pits, trials or vet dungeons. You're better off right now with Bone Shield, if you're not a high hp level DK tank.

    30k HP Tanks with Igneous is just fine, not sure what you are talking about. Plus DKs don't just use Igneous for the shield you know..... The stamina return is a big thing there. If there was no stamina return for the shields you would see tanks use it A LOT less.

    for PvP stamDks Its also quite useful,

    The shield is veeery tiny on a Dk built for damage especially in PvP but It will still stop a big hit from critting you, if you time it just right, then it gives 3 seconds of major mending so you can heal after that,you get stamina returns, it procs mountain blessing which is minor brutaltiy+ a few ultimate points.

    I tried having so many other things but nothing replaces its self utility.

    Well, PvP.. I don't do much of that. So, I can't speak on it.. but, for PvE, it isn't so effective with such low hp tank. There are a lot of S&B DK running around with hp of 17 to 20-something k. I have been seeing a lot of them at the Arena world boss pit in the Gold Coast and as much as in the pits in CWC. Sure it's fine, if you have many other toons there in the pit with you; however, they're not so effective with a couple or fewer toons there. Come on, boss smacking you with 9k, 16k, and even 18-20k hits and adds evening throwing out 4-6k damages, that small arse Igneous Shield from low hp tank isn't helping much. At least for PvE, it is crying shame how much Igneous Shield had changed and nerfed with post-Morrowind.

    With my StamDK, I don't slot the Igneous Shield anymore. I only have 20-22k hp with the stam. Whoopie doo, Major Mending just for a few seconds. I get enough health regen with Rally and/or Vigor. You get stam back, oh, another whoopee doo, 990 stam back. It barely makes a dent. I get plenty of stam regen with the heavy attack. However, hey, if you all feel the Igneous Shield is working for you all lower hp tank or toon.. fine, to each their own, but you're not helping much if you're rolling in a trial or vet dungeon (that's if) with a DK tank under 30k hp using the Igneous Shield.
  • paulsimonps
    paulsimonps
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭
    GreenhaloX wrote: »
    GreenhaloX wrote: »
    Right now, if you're not a DK tank with at least 40k hp, Igneous Shield isn't even worth it. It is so crap and disheartening for a Stam or MagDK. Even all those DK tanks running around with 20-30k hp, it isn't helping much at world boss pits, trials or vet dungeons. You're better off right now with Bone Shield, if you're not a high hp level DK tank.

    30k HP Tanks with Igneous is just fine, not sure what you are talking about. Plus DKs don't just use Igneous for the shield you know..... The stamina return is a big thing there. If there was no stamina return for the shields you would see tanks use it A LOT less.

    for PvP stamDks Its also quite useful,

    The shield is veeery tiny on a Dk built for damage especially in PvP but It will still stop a big hit from critting you, if you time it just right, then it gives 3 seconds of major mending so you can heal after that,you get stamina returns, it procs mountain blessing which is minor brutaltiy+ a few ultimate points.

    I tried having so many other things but nothing replaces its self utility.

    Well, PvP.. I don't do much of that. So, I can't speak on it.. but, for PvE, it isn't so effective with such low hp tank. There are a lot of S&B DK running around with hp of 17 to 20-something k. I have been seeing a lot of them at the Arena world boss pit in the Gold Coast and as much as in the pits in CWC. Sure it's fine, if you have many other toons there in the pit with you; however, they're not so effective with a couple or fewer toons there. Come on, boss smacking you with 9k, 16k, and even 18-20k hits and adds evening throwing out 4-6k damages, that small arse Igneous Shield from low hp tank isn't helping much. At least for PvE, it is crying shame how much Igneous Shield had changed and nerfed with post-Morrowind.

    With my StamDK, I don't slot the Igneous Shield anymore. I only have 20-22k hp with the stam. Whoopie doo, Major Mending just for a few seconds. I get enough health regen with Rally and/or Vigor. You get stam back, oh, another whoopee doo, 990 stam back. It barely makes a dent. I get plenty of stam regen with the heavy attack. However, hey, if you all feel the Igneous Shield is working for you all lower hp tank or toon.. fine, to each their own, but you're not helping much if you're rolling in a trial or vet dungeon (that's if) with a DK tank under 30k hp using the Igneous Shield.

    17-20k HP people are not really Tanks though, they would die very fast in Trials, and why are we talking about skills efficiency for world bosses? Who gives a crap about group efficiency of PuGs vs World bosses? In Trials you will see 30k as well as 45k+ Tanks use Igneous Shield. Its still the DK Tanks go to skill for protection and sustain. Sure stamDKs might not use it as much, but Tanks will always use it.
  • GreenhaloX
    GreenhaloX
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    GreenhaloX wrote: »
    GreenhaloX wrote: »
    Right now, if you're not a DK tank with at least 40k hp, Igneous Shield isn't even worth it. It is so crap and disheartening for a Stam or MagDK. Even all those DK tanks running around with 20-30k hp, it isn't helping much at world boss pits, trials or vet dungeons. You're better off right now with Bone Shield, if you're not a high hp level DK tank.

    30k HP Tanks with Igneous is just fine, not sure what you are talking about. Plus DKs don't just use Igneous for the shield you know..... The stamina return is a big thing there. If there was no stamina return for the shields you would see tanks use it A LOT less.

    for PvP stamDks Its also quite useful,

    The shield is veeery tiny on a Dk built for damage especially in PvP but It will still stop a big hit from critting you, if you time it just right, then it gives 3 seconds of major mending so you can heal after that,you get stamina returns, it procs mountain blessing which is minor brutaltiy+ a few ultimate points.

    I tried having so many other things but nothing replaces its self utility.

    Well, PvP.. I don't do much of that. So, I can't speak on it.. but, for PvE, it isn't so effective with such low hp tank. There are a lot of S&B DK running around with hp of 17 to 20-something k. I have been seeing a lot of them at the Arena world boss pit in the Gold Coast and as much as in the pits in CWC. Sure it's fine, if you have many other toons there in the pit with you; however, they're not so effective with a couple or fewer toons there. Come on, boss smacking you with 9k, 16k, and even 18-20k hits and adds evening throwing out 4-6k damages, that small arse Igneous Shield from low hp tank isn't helping much. At least for PvE, it is crying shame how much Igneous Shield had changed and nerfed with post-Morrowind.

    With my StamDK, I don't slot the Igneous Shield anymore. I only have 20-22k hp with the stam. Whoopie doo, Major Mending just for a few seconds. I get enough health regen with Rally and/or Vigor. You get stam back, oh, another whoopee doo, 990 stam back. It barely makes a dent. I get plenty of stam regen with the heavy attack. However, hey, if you all feel the Igneous Shield is working for you all lower hp tank or toon.. fine, to each their own, but you're not helping much if you're rolling in a trial or vet dungeon (that's if) with a DK tank under 30k hp using the Igneous Shield.

    17-20k HP people are not really Tanks though, they would die very fast in Trials, and why are we talking about skills efficiency for world bosses? Who gives a crap about group efficiency of PuGs vs World bosses? In Trials you will see 30k as well as 45k+ Tanks use Igneous Shield. Its still the DK Tanks go to skill for protection and sustain. Sure stamDKs might not use it as much, but Tanks will always use it.

    Of course, any toons with S&B slotted with only hp in the 20ks or less aren't really a tank. However, traditionally, a tank does wear S&B. Otherwise, why the hell would a dps toon slotted S&B? Sure, a hybrid tank with S&B on one bar and a dpsing weapon and dpsing skillset on the other bar can get away with dpsing just fine as well as tanking; although, you won't put out as much dps as a pure dpser would. I have 3 tanks; one pure DK 60k hp tank with S&B slotted on both bars that I would use only for trials, and the other two are 40 and 45k hybrid DK tanks (one stam and the other MagDK-based.) I use the two hybrids for world boss pits and dungeons/undaunted runs. Yes, I slot Igneous Shield with all my DK tanks, because they are all 40k hp and higher.

    Ok, so, for giggles and grins, I stripped down one of my hybrids to just underwears and am standing right at 30k hp, with just the underwears on. The Igneous Shield will just absorbs 3369 damage for allies. What the f protection would we be talking about here for trial runs? Sure, it will be fine for normal adds and trash mobs. Ha ha. Ok, so, for the DK tanks itself, it's viable with the 200% more, but not the best. With 50 to 60k hp, the Igneous will absorb in the 5-6k range for allies. My pure tank was 72k hp (pre-Morrowind patch), and it was fairly good with about 12k damage absorption for allies. However, the Igneous got nerfed down and the damage absorption for allies went down to around 7800. It was still ok, but, of course not as good as before.

    They f-ed tanks again, thereafter, with nerfing of the Plague Doc. So, I had to readjust my pure tank a bit, and currently sitting right around 60k hp. It is still good for trials, and the Igneous will absorb about 6k for allies, but, I still wouldn't classified it as a "go-to" protection for trial runs. Ok, maybe normal runs, but not the best for vet runs. Sure, it will help, and still good for the DK itself, but still lacking a bit for others. Heck, the Magma Shell of the DK tanks is the bread and butter for allies' protection. As for the current state of the Igneous Shield, hell, you get better protection from a sorc's shield dropping on you, then having an Igneous on you from a DK tank with less than 50k hp.

    Additionally, with the current state of toons right now, if you're a lonewolf like me and hit world boss pits sololy as I can, and other than a good MagSorc, you're not going to solo those pits with a regular stam toon or a DK with less than 30k hp. I have sorc toons too, but my hybrids are my go-to for world boss pits and vet dungeon runs. Heck, even with the current CWC world boss pits, I've been hitting those with my hybrid tanks, and other toons, including those 20k something hp S&B dudes are wiping around me, even as much as I am spamming out my Igneous on the crowd.

    So, 45k hp tanks, ok, you'll still do fine for trial runs, and won't have too much problem with world boss pits, and fair just fine with vet dungeon runs. However, with 30k hp or anything less, ok, you will do fine in normal dungeons, but you just will have a rougher time with vet dungeons, trials and world boss pits (soloing or with just one or two others in the pit.) So, bottom line.. if you feel Igneous Shield from a DK with 30k hp or less is fine protection for you, then ok.. but for me, if I'm bringing out my sorc or other dps toons, I'm surely not relying so much on the protection of said DK with that lower hp. Even with my hybrid tanks with everything on, and when soloing, I'll get through those DLC world boss pits, but it's still rough. Some of those DLC boss pits like in Morrowind and Wrothgar aren't no joke for soloing. Even the Mad Ogre, I can't really clear that sololy, but I can with one other toon. Same with the Arena and Looming Shadow in the Gold Coast or the other DLC ones.

    For a DK tank with 30k or less hp or a StamDK, you're really setting yourself and others short of what the potential should be with the Igneous. I'm sorry, as long as I have been playing DK, both stam and mag as dps and tanks, I just can't buy that Igneous Shield is worth slotting if your hp is not at least 40k. Even my 19k hp MagDK dps, I slot the Bone Shield over the Igneous. Same with my StamDKs. Again, if it works for you and you feel safe with the low hp's Igneous Shield, then, it's all good.. game on..
  • Texecutioner187
    Texecutioner187
    ✭✭✭
    Not to step in between the discussion, because I enjoy reading it, but why wouldn't a DK Tank use Bone AND Igneous? And separately, why is one better than the other?
  • Urza1234
    Urza1234
    ✭✭✭✭
    GreenhaloX wrote: »
    Right now, if you're not a DK tank with at least 40k hp, Igneous Shield isn't even worth it. It is so crap and disheartening for a Stam or MagDK. Even all those DK tanks running around with 20-30k hp, it isn't helping much at world boss pits, trials or vet dungeons. You're better off right now with Bone Shield, if you're not a high hp level DK tank.

    Give it a Magicka Morph?

    Nah that would be silly, then it would be almost as usable as when it gave more than 0.05 secs of major mending.
  • Ragnarock41
    Ragnarock41
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    GreenhaloX wrote: »
    GreenhaloX wrote: »
    Right now, if you're not a DK tank with at least 40k hp, Igneous Shield isn't even worth it. It is so crap and disheartening for a Stam or MagDK. Even all those DK tanks running around with 20-30k hp, it isn't helping much at world boss pits, trials or vet dungeons. You're better off right now with Bone Shield, if you're not a high hp level DK tank.

    30k HP Tanks with Igneous is just fine, not sure what you are talking about. Plus DKs don't just use Igneous for the shield you know..... The stamina return is a big thing there. If there was no stamina return for the shields you would see tanks use it A LOT less.

    for PvP stamDks Its also quite useful,

    The shield is veeery tiny on a Dk built for damage especially in PvP but It will still stop a big hit from critting you, if you time it just right, then it gives 3 seconds of major mending so you can heal after that,you get stamina returns, it procs mountain blessing which is minor brutaltiy+ a few ultimate points.

    I tried having so many other things but nothing replaces its self utility.

    Well, PvP.. I don't do much of that. So, I can't speak on it.. but, for PvE, it isn't so effective with such low hp tank. There are a lot of S&B DK running around with hp of 17 to 20-something k. I have been seeing a lot of them at the Arena world boss pit in the Gold Coast and as much as in the pits in CWC. Sure it's fine, if you have many other toons there in the pit with you; however, they're not so effective with a couple or fewer toons there. Come on, boss smacking you with 9k, 16k, and even 18-20k hits and adds evening throwing out 4-6k damages, that small arse Igneous Shield from low hp tank isn't helping much. At least for PvE, it is crying shame how much Igneous Shield had changed and nerfed with post-Morrowind.

    With my StamDK, I don't slot the Igneous Shield anymore. I only have 20-22k hp with the stam. Whoopie doo, Major Mending just for a few seconds. I get enough health regen with Rally and/or Vigor. You get stam back, oh, another whoopee doo, 990 stam back. It barely makes a dent. I get plenty of stam regen with the heavy attack. However, hey, if you all feel the Igneous Shield is working for you all lower hp tank or toon.. fine, to each their own, but you're not helping much if you're rolling in a trial or vet dungeon (that's if) with a DK tank under 30k hp using the Igneous Shield.

    well if you got 20-22k hp you are not a tank sir, my dps Dk has more hp than that.
  • paulsimonps
    paulsimonps
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭
    GreenhaloX wrote: »
    GreenhaloX wrote: »
    GreenhaloX wrote: »
    Right now, if you're not a DK tank with at least 40k hp, Igneous Shield isn't even worth it. It is so crap and disheartening for a Stam or MagDK. Even all those DK tanks running around with 20-30k hp, it isn't helping much at world boss pits, trials or vet dungeons. You're better off right now with Bone Shield, if you're not a high hp level DK tank.

    30k HP Tanks with Igneous is just fine, not sure what you are talking about. Plus DKs don't just use Igneous for the shield you know..... The stamina return is a big thing there. If there was no stamina return for the shields you would see tanks use it A LOT less.

    for PvP stamDks Its also quite useful,

    The shield is veeery tiny on a Dk built for damage especially in PvP but It will still stop a big hit from critting you, if you time it just right, then it gives 3 seconds of major mending so you can heal after that,you get stamina returns, it procs mountain blessing which is minor brutaltiy+ a few ultimate points.

    I tried having so many other things but nothing replaces its self utility.

    Well, PvP.. I don't do much of that. So, I can't speak on it.. but, for PvE, it isn't so effective with such low hp tank. There are a lot of S&B DK running around with hp of 17 to 20-something k. I have been seeing a lot of them at the Arena world boss pit in the Gold Coast and as much as in the pits in CWC. Sure it's fine, if you have many other toons there in the pit with you; however, they're not so effective with a couple or fewer toons there. Come on, boss smacking you with 9k, 16k, and even 18-20k hits and adds evening throwing out 4-6k damages, that small arse Igneous Shield from low hp tank isn't helping much. At least for PvE, it is crying shame how much Igneous Shield had changed and nerfed with post-Morrowind.

    With my StamDK, I don't slot the Igneous Shield anymore. I only have 20-22k hp with the stam. Whoopie doo, Major Mending just for a few seconds. I get enough health regen with Rally and/or Vigor. You get stam back, oh, another whoopee doo, 990 stam back. It barely makes a dent. I get plenty of stam regen with the heavy attack. However, hey, if you all feel the Igneous Shield is working for you all lower hp tank or toon.. fine, to each their own, but you're not helping much if you're rolling in a trial or vet dungeon (that's if) with a DK tank under 30k hp using the Igneous Shield.

    17-20k HP people are not really Tanks though, they would die very fast in Trials, and why are we talking about skills efficiency for world bosses? Who gives a crap about group efficiency of PuGs vs World bosses? In Trials you will see 30k as well as 45k+ Tanks use Igneous Shield. Its still the DK Tanks go to skill for protection and sustain. Sure stamDKs might not use it as much, but Tanks will always use it.

    Of course, any toons with S&B slotted with only hp in the 20ks or less aren't really a tank. However, traditionally, a tank does wear S&B. Otherwise, why the hell would a dps toon slotted S&B? Sure, a hybrid tank with S&B on one bar and a dpsing weapon and dpsing skillset on the other bar can get away with dpsing just fine as well as tanking; although, you won't put out as much dps as a pure dpser would. I have 3 tanks; one pure DK 60k hp tank with S&B slotted on both bars that I would use only for trials, and the other two are 40 and 45k hybrid DK tanks (one stam and the other MagDK-based.) I use the two hybrids for world boss pits and dungeons/undaunted runs. Yes, I slot Igneous Shield with all my DK tanks, because they are all 40k hp and higher.

    Ok, so, for giggles and grins, I stripped down one of my hybrids to just underwears and am standing right at 30k hp, with just the underwears on. The Igneous Shield will just absorbs 3369 damage for allies. What the f protection would we be talking about here for trial runs? Sure, it will be fine for normal adds and trash mobs. Ha ha. Ok, so, for the DK tanks itself, it's viable with the 200% more, but not the best. With 50 to 60k hp, the Igneous will absorb in the 5-6k range for allies. My pure tank was 72k hp (pre-Morrowind patch), and it was fairly good with about 12k damage absorption for allies. However, the Igneous got nerfed down and the damage absorption for allies went down to around 7800. It was still ok, but, of course not as good as before.

    They f-ed tanks again, thereafter, with nerfing of the Plague Doc. So, I had to readjust my pure tank a bit, and currently sitting right around 60k hp. It is still good for trials, and the Igneous will absorb about 6k for allies, but, I still wouldn't classified it as a "go-to" protection for trial runs. Ok, maybe normal runs, but not the best for vet runs. Sure, it will help, and still good for the DK itself, but still lacking a bit for others. Heck, the Magma Shell of the DK tanks is the bread and butter for allies' protection. As for the current state of the Igneous Shield, hell, you get better protection from a sorc's shield dropping on you, then having an Igneous on you from a DK tank with less than 50k hp.

    Additionally, with the current state of toons right now, if you're a lonewolf like me and hit world boss pits sololy as I can, and other than a good MagSorc, you're not going to solo those pits with a regular stam toon or a DK with less than 30k hp. I have sorc toons too, but my hybrids are my go-to for world boss pits and vet dungeon runs. Heck, even with the current CWC world boss pits, I've been hitting those with my hybrid tanks, and other toons, including those 20k something hp S&B dudes are wiping around me, even as much as I am spamming out my Igneous on the crowd.

    So, 45k hp tanks, ok, you'll still do fine for trial runs, and won't have too much problem with world boss pits, and fair just fine with vet dungeon runs. However, with 30k hp or anything less, ok, you will do fine in normal dungeons, but you just will have a rougher time with vet dungeons, trials and world boss pits (soloing or with just one or two others in the pit.) So, bottom line.. if you feel Igneous Shield from a DK with 30k hp or less is fine protection for you, then ok.. but for me, if I'm bringing out my sorc or other dps toons, I'm surely not relying so much on the protection of said DK with that lower hp. Even with my hybrid tanks with everything on, and when soloing, I'll get through those DLC world boss pits, but it's still rough. Some of those DLC boss pits like in Morrowind and Wrothgar aren't no joke for soloing. Even the Mad Ogre, I can't really clear that sololy, but I can with one other toon. Same with the Arena and Looming Shadow in the Gold Coast or the other DLC ones.

    For a DK tank with 30k or less hp or a StamDK, you're really setting yourself and others short of what the potential should be with the Igneous. I'm sorry, as long as I have been playing DK, both stam and mag as dps and tanks, I just can't buy that Igneous Shield is worth slotting if your hp is not at least 40k. Even my 19k hp MagDK dps, I slot the Bone Shield over the Igneous. Same with my StamDKs. Again, if it works for you and you feel safe with the low hp's Igneous Shield, then, it's all good.. game on..

    Considering how mitigation is calculated those 3.3k shields do a lot more than you think they are. And they are not suppose to eliminate the need for healing, its suppose to help you though. And considering how much DK Tanks spam this, it does add up to a lot of support over the course of a Trial run. I think you are greatly underestimating how well Igneous shield still works. The nerf was needed, the shields were making things way too easy.
  • GreenhaloX
    GreenhaloX
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    GreenhaloX wrote: »
    GreenhaloX wrote: »
    GreenhaloX wrote: »
    Right now, if you're not a DK tank with at least 40k hp, Igneous Shield isn't even worth it. It is so crap and disheartening for a Stam or MagDK. Even all those DK tanks running around with 20-30k hp, it isn't helping much at world boss pits, trials or vet dungeons. You're better off right now with Bone Shield, if you're not a high hp level DK tank.

    30k HP Tanks with Igneous is just fine, not sure what you are talking about. Plus DKs don't just use Igneous for the shield you know..... The stamina return is a big thing there. If there was no stamina return for the shields you would see tanks use it A LOT less.

    for PvP stamDks Its also quite useful,

    The shield is veeery tiny on a Dk built for damage especially in PvP but It will still stop a big hit from critting you, if you time it just right, then it gives 3 seconds of major mending so you can heal after that,you get stamina returns, it procs mountain blessing which is minor brutaltiy+ a few ultimate points.

    I tried having so many other things but nothing replaces its self utility.

    Well, PvP.. I don't do much of that. So, I can't speak on it.. but, for PvE, it isn't so effective with such low hp tank. There are a lot of S&B DK running around with hp of 17 to 20-something k. I have been seeing a lot of them at the Arena world boss pit in the Gold Coast and as much as in the pits in CWC. Sure it's fine, if you have many other toons there in the pit with you; however, they're not so effective with a couple or fewer toons there. Come on, boss smacking you with 9k, 16k, and even 18-20k hits and adds evening throwing out 4-6k damages, that small arse Igneous Shield from low hp tank isn't helping much. At least for PvE, it is crying shame how much Igneous Shield had changed and nerfed with post-Morrowind.

    With my StamDK, I don't slot the Igneous Shield anymore. I only have 20-22k hp with the stam. Whoopie doo, Major Mending just for a few seconds. I get enough health regen with Rally and/or Vigor. You get stam back, oh, another whoopee doo, 990 stam back. It barely makes a dent. I get plenty of stam regen with the heavy attack. However, hey, if you all feel the Igneous Shield is working for you all lower hp tank or toon.. fine, to each their own, but you're not helping much if you're rolling in a trial or vet dungeon (that's if) with a DK tank under 30k hp using the Igneous Shield.

    17-20k HP people are not really Tanks though, they would die very fast in Trials, and why are we talking about skills efficiency for world bosses? Who gives a crap about group efficiency of PuGs vs World bosses? In Trials you will see 30k as well as 45k+ Tanks use Igneous Shield. Its still the DK Tanks go to skill for protection and sustain. Sure stamDKs might not use it as much, but Tanks will always use it.

    Of course, any toons with S&B slotted with only hp in the 20ks or less aren't really a tank. However, traditionally, a tank does wear S&B. Otherwise, why the hell would a dps toon slotted S&B? Sure, a hybrid tank with S&B on one bar and a dpsing weapon and dpsing skillset on the other bar can get away with dpsing just fine as well as tanking; although, you won't put out as much dps as a pure dpser would. I have 3 tanks; one pure DK 60k hp tank with S&B slotted on both bars that I would use only for trials, and the other two are 40 and 45k hybrid DK tanks (one stam and the other MagDK-based.) I use the two hybrids for world boss pits and dungeons/undaunted runs. Yes, I slot Igneous Shield with all my DK tanks, because they are all 40k hp and higher.

    Ok, so, for giggles and grins, I stripped down one of my hybrids to just underwears and am standing right at 30k hp, with just the underwears on. The Igneous Shield will just absorbs 3369 damage for allies. What the f protection would we be talking about here for trial runs? Sure, it will be fine for normal adds and trash mobs. Ha ha. Ok, so, for the DK tanks itself, it's viable with the 200% more, but not the best. With 50 to 60k hp, the Igneous will absorb in the 5-6k range for allies. My pure tank was 72k hp (pre-Morrowind patch), and it was fairly good with about 12k damage absorption for allies. However, the Igneous got nerfed down and the damage absorption for allies went down to around 7800. It was still ok, but, of course not as good as before.

    They f-ed tanks again, thereafter, with nerfing of the Plague Doc. So, I had to readjust my pure tank a bit, and currently sitting right around 60k hp. It is still good for trials, and the Igneous will absorb about 6k for allies, but, I still wouldn't classified it as a "go-to" protection for trial runs. Ok, maybe normal runs, but not the best for vet runs. Sure, it will help, and still good for the DK itself, but still lacking a bit for others. Heck, the Magma Shell of the DK tanks is the bread and butter for allies' protection. As for the current state of the Igneous Shield, hell, you get better protection from a sorc's shield dropping on you, then having an Igneous on you from a DK tank with less than 50k hp.

    Additionally, with the current state of toons right now, if you're a lonewolf like me and hit world boss pits sololy as I can, and other than a good MagSorc, you're not going to solo those pits with a regular stam toon or a DK with less than 30k hp. I have sorc toons too, but my hybrids are my go-to for world boss pits and vet dungeon runs. Heck, even with the current CWC world boss pits, I've been hitting those with my hybrid tanks, and other toons, including those 20k something hp S&B dudes are wiping around me, even as much as I am spamming out my Igneous on the crowd.

    So, 45k hp tanks, ok, you'll still do fine for trial runs, and won't have too much problem with world boss pits, and fair just fine with vet dungeon runs. However, with 30k hp or anything less, ok, you will do fine in normal dungeons, but you just will have a rougher time with vet dungeons, trials and world boss pits (soloing or with just one or two others in the pit.) So, bottom line.. if you feel Igneous Shield from a DK with 30k hp or less is fine protection for you, then ok.. but for me, if I'm bringing out my sorc or other dps toons, I'm surely not relying so much on the protection of said DK with that lower hp. Even with my hybrid tanks with everything on, and when soloing, I'll get through those DLC world boss pits, but it's still rough. Some of those DLC boss pits like in Morrowind and Wrothgar aren't no joke for soloing. Even the Mad Ogre, I can't really clear that sololy, but I can with one other toon. Same with the Arena and Looming Shadow in the Gold Coast or the other DLC ones.

    For a DK tank with 30k or less hp or a StamDK, you're really setting yourself and others short of what the potential should be with the Igneous. I'm sorry, as long as I have been playing DK, both stam and mag as dps and tanks, I just can't buy that Igneous Shield is worth slotting if your hp is not at least 40k. Even my 19k hp MagDK dps, I slot the Bone Shield over the Igneous. Same with my StamDKs. Again, if it works for you and you feel safe with the low hp's Igneous Shield, then, it's all good.. game on..

    Considering how mitigation is calculated those 3.3k shields do a lot more than you think they are. And they are not suppose to eliminate the need for healing, its suppose to help you though. And considering how much DK Tanks spam this, it does add up to a lot of support over the course of a Trial run. I think you are greatly underestimating how well Igneous shield still works. The nerf was needed, the shields were making things way too easy.

    Well.. seems we're going to have to agree to disagree, because, yes, we definitely don't see eye to eye on this Igneous Shield for lower level hp DK. Like I said before, it works for you, then it's all good. It doesn't work for me. I know.. when an add or boss is taking my Igneous Shield out with one punch, hit or blast and still taking damage out of me, while I did have the Igneous up, it's not working for me. For my (dps) StamDK, and MagDK, I'm feeling better with the Bone Shield; whereas, my tanks 40k hp and the 60k hp one, yeah, I'm fine with the Igneous Shield for them.

    Anyways.. and not to get too much off track, I have to disagree again with the nerf thing. No.. the Igneous Shield never needed a nerf, shouldn't have gotten nerfed, and nerfing, in general for this game, should be a crime. Nothing should need to be nerfed. Again, we will have to agree to disagree on this as well. Hey, game on.. it's all good. Whatever works for you, you're playing your toon, and I'm playing mine.
    Edited by GreenhaloX on November 19, 2017 7:56PM
  • paulsimonps
    paulsimonps
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    ✭✭✭
    GreenhaloX wrote: »
    GreenhaloX wrote: »
    GreenhaloX wrote: »
    GreenhaloX wrote: »
    Right now, if you're not a DK tank with at least 40k hp, Igneous Shield isn't even worth it. It is so crap and disheartening for a Stam or MagDK. Even all those DK tanks running around with 20-30k hp, it isn't helping much at world boss pits, trials or vet dungeons. You're better off right now with Bone Shield, if you're not a high hp level DK tank.

    30k HP Tanks with Igneous is just fine, not sure what you are talking about. Plus DKs don't just use Igneous for the shield you know..... The stamina return is a big thing there. If there was no stamina return for the shields you would see tanks use it A LOT less.

    for PvP stamDks Its also quite useful,

    The shield is veeery tiny on a Dk built for damage especially in PvP but It will still stop a big hit from critting you, if you time it just right, then it gives 3 seconds of major mending so you can heal after that,you get stamina returns, it procs mountain blessing which is minor brutaltiy+ a few ultimate points.

    I tried having so many other things but nothing replaces its self utility.

    Well, PvP.. I don't do much of that. So, I can't speak on it.. but, for PvE, it isn't so effective with such low hp tank. There are a lot of S&B DK running around with hp of 17 to 20-something k. I have been seeing a lot of them at the Arena world boss pit in the Gold Coast and as much as in the pits in CWC. Sure it's fine, if you have many other toons there in the pit with you; however, they're not so effective with a couple or fewer toons there. Come on, boss smacking you with 9k, 16k, and even 18-20k hits and adds evening throwing out 4-6k damages, that small arse Igneous Shield from low hp tank isn't helping much. At least for PvE, it is crying shame how much Igneous Shield had changed and nerfed with post-Morrowind.

    With my StamDK, I don't slot the Igneous Shield anymore. I only have 20-22k hp with the stam. Whoopie doo, Major Mending just for a few seconds. I get enough health regen with Rally and/or Vigor. You get stam back, oh, another whoopee doo, 990 stam back. It barely makes a dent. I get plenty of stam regen with the heavy attack. However, hey, if you all feel the Igneous Shield is working for you all lower hp tank or toon.. fine, to each their own, but you're not helping much if you're rolling in a trial or vet dungeon (that's if) with a DK tank under 30k hp using the Igneous Shield.

    17-20k HP people are not really Tanks though, they would die very fast in Trials, and why are we talking about skills efficiency for world bosses? Who gives a crap about group efficiency of PuGs vs World bosses? In Trials you will see 30k as well as 45k+ Tanks use Igneous Shield. Its still the DK Tanks go to skill for protection and sustain. Sure stamDKs might not use it as much, but Tanks will always use it.

    Of course, any toons with S&B slotted with only hp in the 20ks or less aren't really a tank. However, traditionally, a tank does wear S&B. Otherwise, why the hell would a dps toon slotted S&B? Sure, a hybrid tank with S&B on one bar and a dpsing weapon and dpsing skillset on the other bar can get away with dpsing just fine as well as tanking; although, you won't put out as much dps as a pure dpser would. I have 3 tanks; one pure DK 60k hp tank with S&B slotted on both bars that I would use only for trials, and the other two are 40 and 45k hybrid DK tanks (one stam and the other MagDK-based.) I use the two hybrids for world boss pits and dungeons/undaunted runs. Yes, I slot Igneous Shield with all my DK tanks, because they are all 40k hp and higher.

    Ok, so, for giggles and grins, I stripped down one of my hybrids to just underwears and am standing right at 30k hp, with just the underwears on. The Igneous Shield will just absorbs 3369 damage for allies. What the f protection would we be talking about here for trial runs? Sure, it will be fine for normal adds and trash mobs. Ha ha. Ok, so, for the DK tanks itself, it's viable with the 200% more, but not the best. With 50 to 60k hp, the Igneous will absorb in the 5-6k range for allies. My pure tank was 72k hp (pre-Morrowind patch), and it was fairly good with about 12k damage absorption for allies. However, the Igneous got nerfed down and the damage absorption for allies went down to around 7800. It was still ok, but, of course not as good as before.

    They f-ed tanks again, thereafter, with nerfing of the Plague Doc. So, I had to readjust my pure tank a bit, and currently sitting right around 60k hp. It is still good for trials, and the Igneous will absorb about 6k for allies, but, I still wouldn't classified it as a "go-to" protection for trial runs. Ok, maybe normal runs, but not the best for vet runs. Sure, it will help, and still good for the DK itself, but still lacking a bit for others. Heck, the Magma Shell of the DK tanks is the bread and butter for allies' protection. As for the current state of the Igneous Shield, hell, you get better protection from a sorc's shield dropping on you, then having an Igneous on you from a DK tank with less than 50k hp.

    Additionally, with the current state of toons right now, if you're a lonewolf like me and hit world boss pits sololy as I can, and other than a good MagSorc, you're not going to solo those pits with a regular stam toon or a DK with less than 30k hp. I have sorc toons too, but my hybrids are my go-to for world boss pits and vet dungeon runs. Heck, even with the current CWC world boss pits, I've been hitting those with my hybrid tanks, and other toons, including those 20k something hp S&B dudes are wiping around me, even as much as I am spamming out my Igneous on the crowd.

    So, 45k hp tanks, ok, you'll still do fine for trial runs, and won't have too much problem with world boss pits, and fair just fine with vet dungeon runs. However, with 30k hp or anything less, ok, you will do fine in normal dungeons, but you just will have a rougher time with vet dungeons, trials and world boss pits (soloing or with just one or two others in the pit.) So, bottom line.. if you feel Igneous Shield from a DK with 30k hp or less is fine protection for you, then ok.. but for me, if I'm bringing out my sorc or other dps toons, I'm surely not relying so much on the protection of said DK with that lower hp. Even with my hybrid tanks with everything on, and when soloing, I'll get through those DLC world boss pits, but it's still rough. Some of those DLC boss pits like in Morrowind and Wrothgar aren't no joke for soloing. Even the Mad Ogre, I can't really clear that sololy, but I can with one other toon. Same with the Arena and Looming Shadow in the Gold Coast or the other DLC ones.

    For a DK tank with 30k or less hp or a StamDK, you're really setting yourself and others short of what the potential should be with the Igneous. I'm sorry, as long as I have been playing DK, both stam and mag as dps and tanks, I just can't buy that Igneous Shield is worth slotting if your hp is not at least 40k. Even my 19k hp MagDK dps, I slot the Bone Shield over the Igneous. Same with my StamDKs. Again, if it works for you and you feel safe with the low hp's Igneous Shield, then, it's all good.. game on..

    Considering how mitigation is calculated those 3.3k shields do a lot more than you think they are. And they are not suppose to eliminate the need for healing, its suppose to help you though. And considering how much DK Tanks spam this, it does add up to a lot of support over the course of a Trial run. I think you are greatly underestimating how well Igneous shield still works. The nerf was needed, the shields were making things way too easy.

    Well.. seems we're going to have to agree to disagree, because, yes, we definitely don't see eye to eye on this Igneous Shield for lower level hp DK. Like I said before, it works for you, then it's all good. It doesn't work for me. I know.. when an add or boss is taking my Igneous Shield out with one punch, hit or blast and still taking damage out of me, while I did have the Igneous up, it's not working for me. For my (dps) StamDK, and MagDK, I'm feeling better with the Bone Shield; whereas, my tanks 40k hp and the 60k hp one, yeah, I'm fine with the Igneous Shield for them.

    Anyways.. and not to get too much off track, I have to disagree again with the nerf thing. No.. the Igneous Shield never needed a nerf, shouldn't have gotten nerfed, and nerfing, in general for this game, should be a crime. Nothing should need to be nerfed. Again, we will have to agree to disagree on this as well. Hey, game on.. it's all good. Whatever works for you, you're playing your toon, and I'm playing mine.

    To achieve balance you sometimes have to nerf, if all we do is buff then we end up with a lot more work trying to get everything else up to speed and we get more of a power tsunami rather than a power creep. You would have to rebalance the entire game over and over if all you do is buff. In the end you end up with a crap ton more work and power creeps and WoW style numbers with light attacks doing 165472342 damage or something stupid like that.
  • Surgee
    Surgee
    ✭✭✭✭
    jgruberman wrote: »
    Liofa wrote: »
    jgruberman wrote: »
    Liofa wrote: »
    I assume you do not know this information and expect the same shield size on everyone whenever an Igneous Shield is cast . I do not see any other way what you say could happen .

    That is an incorrect assumption. I expect the Igneous Shield to scale from Health and Bastion points and if I have a greater HP pool and more points in Bastion than my friend, then I would imagine to get a greater Igneous Shield than them, however this is not the case.

    Let me get this correctly . You have higher HP pool and more points into Bastion . You cast Igneous Shield and get -let's say- 10k shield on yourself and give your friend a shield of 5k . And there is your friend , who has lower HP pool and fewer points into Bastion . He cast the skill and gets -let's say- 20k shield on himself and a 10k shield on you . Is this correct ?

    More specifically.... I cast and get 5k, he casts and gets 8k. I have higher HP and more points into Bastion. The secondary shield on allies is not part of the equation in my example

    I'm not sure if I remember well, but I thought my shield was stronger when I had higher weapon power. Kinda weird but worth a try.
  • Texecutioner187
    Texecutioner187
    ✭✭✭
    jgruberman wrote: »
    Not to step in between the discussion, because I enjoy reading it, but why wouldn't a DK Tank use Bone AND Igneous? And separately, why is one better than the other?

    I'll just quote myself and ask again... but why wouldn't a tank use both shields?
  • paulsimonps
    paulsimonps
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    ✭✭✭
    jgruberman wrote: »
    jgruberman wrote: »
    Not to step in between the discussion, because I enjoy reading it, but why wouldn't a DK Tank use Bone AND Igneous? And separately, why is one better than the other?

    I'll just quote myself and ask again... but why wouldn't a tank use both shields?

    waste of resources
  • Lightspeedflashb14_ESO
    Lightspeedflashb14_ESO
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    jgruberman wrote: »
    jgruberman wrote: »
    Not to step in between the discussion, because I enjoy reading it, but why wouldn't a DK Tank use Bone AND Igneous? And separately, why is one better than the other?

    I'll just quote myself and ask again... but why wouldn't a tank use both shields?

    Because tanks need all the stam they can get and bone sheild costs Stam and only inpacts you, unless someone does the synergy, which is rare. Better to just use igneous shields and vigor. On my tank, vigor ticks for like 2k( on other people, on my self it ticks for 3-4k) for 5 secs, which is more then a lots of healers rapid regen that I have played with as a tank and impacts up to 6 people instead of just *4* for bone shield, you also get ulti from healing people. The amount of Stam use is less for vigor too. So use igneous, then vigor, best way to keep you and your team up.

    As for why igneous is better then bone shield, I covered that, igneous covers 6 people with not interaction and bone only covers you for 30% and only *4* other player with a 60% shield, based on their health, not yours, and only if someone synergies the skill.
  • GreenhaloX
    GreenhaloX
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    GreenhaloX wrote: »
    GreenhaloX wrote: »
    GreenhaloX wrote: »
    GreenhaloX wrote: »
    Right now, if you're not a DK tank with at least 40k hp, Igneous Shield isn't even worth it. It is so crap and disheartening for a Stam or MagDK. Even all those DK tanks running around with 20-30k hp, it isn't helping much at world boss pits, trials or vet dungeons. You're better off right now with Bone Shield, if you're not a high hp level DK tank.

    30k HP Tanks with Igneous is just fine, not sure what you are talking about. Plus DKs don't just use Igneous for the shield you know..... The stamina return is a big thing there. If there was no stamina return for the shields you would see tanks use it A LOT less.

    for PvP stamDks Its also quite useful,

    The shield is veeery tiny on a Dk built for damage especially in PvP but It will still stop a big hit from critting you, if you time it just right, then it gives 3 seconds of major mending so you can heal after that,you get stamina returns, it procs mountain blessing which is minor brutaltiy+ a few ultimate points.

    I tried having so many other things but nothing replaces its self utility.

    Well, PvP.. I don't do much of that. So, I can't speak on it.. but, for PvE, it isn't so effective with such low hp tank. There are a lot of S&B DK running around with hp of 17 to 20-something k. I have been seeing a lot of them at the Arena world boss pit in the Gold Coast and as much as in the pits in CWC. Sure it's fine, if you have many other toons there in the pit with you; however, they're not so effective with a couple or fewer toons there. Come on, boss smacking you with 9k, 16k, and even 18-20k hits and adds evening throwing out 4-6k damages, that small arse Igneous Shield from low hp tank isn't helping much. At least for PvE, it is crying shame how much Igneous Shield had changed and nerfed with post-Morrowind.

    With my StamDK, I don't slot the Igneous Shield anymore. I only have 20-22k hp with the stam. Whoopie doo, Major Mending just for a few seconds. I get enough health regen with Rally and/or Vigor. You get stam back, oh, another whoopee doo, 990 stam back. It barely makes a dent. I get plenty of stam regen with the heavy attack. However, hey, if you all feel the Igneous Shield is working for you all lower hp tank or toon.. fine, to each their own, but you're not helping much if you're rolling in a trial or vet dungeon (that's if) with a DK tank under 30k hp using the Igneous Shield.

    17-20k HP people are not really Tanks though, they would die very fast in Trials, and why are we talking about skills efficiency for world bosses? Who gives a crap about group efficiency of PuGs vs World bosses? In Trials you will see 30k as well as 45k+ Tanks use Igneous Shield. Its still the DK Tanks go to skill for protection and sustain. Sure stamDKs might not use it as much, but Tanks will always use it.

    Of course, any toons with S&B slotted with only hp in the 20ks or less aren't really a tank. However, traditionally, a tank does wear S&B. Otherwise, why the hell would a dps toon slotted S&B? Sure, a hybrid tank with S&B on one bar and a dpsing weapon and dpsing skillset on the other bar can get away with dpsing just fine as well as tanking; although, you won't put out as much dps as a pure dpser would. I have 3 tanks; one pure DK 60k hp tank with S&B slotted on both bars that I would use only for trials, and the other two are 40 and 45k hybrid DK tanks (one stam and the other MagDK-based.) I use the two hybrids for world boss pits and dungeons/undaunted runs. Yes, I slot Igneous Shield with all my DK tanks, because they are all 40k hp and higher.

    Ok, so, for giggles and grins, I stripped down one of my hybrids to just underwears and am standing right at 30k hp, with just the underwears on. The Igneous Shield will just absorbs 3369 damage for allies. What the f protection would we be talking about here for trial runs? Sure, it will be fine for normal adds and trash mobs. Ha ha. Ok, so, for the DK tanks itself, it's viable with the 200% more, but not the best. With 50 to 60k hp, the Igneous will absorb in the 5-6k range for allies. My pure tank was 72k hp (pre-Morrowind patch), and it was fairly good with about 12k damage absorption for allies. However, the Igneous got nerfed down and the damage absorption for allies went down to around 7800. It was still ok, but, of course not as good as before.

    They f-ed tanks again, thereafter, with nerfing of the Plague Doc. So, I had to readjust my pure tank a bit, and currently sitting right around 60k hp. It is still good for trials, and the Igneous will absorb about 6k for allies, but, I still wouldn't classified it as a "go-to" protection for trial runs. Ok, maybe normal runs, but not the best for vet runs. Sure, it will help, and still good for the DK itself, but still lacking a bit for others. Heck, the Magma Shell of the DK tanks is the bread and butter for allies' protection. As for the current state of the Igneous Shield, hell, you get better protection from a sorc's shield dropping on you, then having an Igneous on you from a DK tank with less than 50k hp.

    Additionally, with the current state of toons right now, if you're a lonewolf like me and hit world boss pits sololy as I can, and other than a good MagSorc, you're not going to solo those pits with a regular stam toon or a DK with less than 30k hp. I have sorc toons too, but my hybrids are my go-to for world boss pits and vet dungeon runs. Heck, even with the current CWC world boss pits, I've been hitting those with my hybrid tanks, and other toons, including those 20k something hp S&B dudes are wiping around me, even as much as I am spamming out my Igneous on the crowd.

    So, 45k hp tanks, ok, you'll still do fine for trial runs, and won't have too much problem with world boss pits, and fair just fine with vet dungeon runs. However, with 30k hp or anything less, ok, you will do fine in normal dungeons, but you just will have a rougher time with vet dungeons, trials and world boss pits (soloing or with just one or two others in the pit.) So, bottom line.. if you feel Igneous Shield from a DK with 30k hp or less is fine protection for you, then ok.. but for me, if I'm bringing out my sorc or other dps toons, I'm surely not relying so much on the protection of said DK with that lower hp. Even with my hybrid tanks with everything on, and when soloing, I'll get through those DLC world boss pits, but it's still rough. Some of those DLC boss pits like in Morrowind and Wrothgar aren't no joke for soloing. Even the Mad Ogre, I can't really clear that sololy, but I can with one other toon. Same with the Arena and Looming Shadow in the Gold Coast or the other DLC ones.

    For a DK tank with 30k or less hp or a StamDK, you're really setting yourself and others short of what the potential should be with the Igneous. I'm sorry, as long as I have been playing DK, both stam and mag as dps and tanks, I just can't buy that Igneous Shield is worth slotting if your hp is not at least 40k. Even my 19k hp MagDK dps, I slot the Bone Shield over the Igneous. Same with my StamDKs. Again, if it works for you and you feel safe with the low hp's Igneous Shield, then, it's all good.. game on..

    Considering how mitigation is calculated those 3.3k shields do a lot more than you think they are. And they are not suppose to eliminate the need for healing, its suppose to help you though. And considering how much DK Tanks spam this, it does add up to a lot of support over the course of a Trial run. I think you are greatly underestimating how well Igneous shield still works. The nerf was needed, the shields were making things way too easy.

    Well.. seems we're going to have to agree to disagree, because, yes, we definitely don't see eye to eye on this Igneous Shield for lower level hp DK. Like I said before, it works for you, then it's all good. It doesn't work for me. I know.. when an add or boss is taking my Igneous Shield out with one punch, hit or blast and still taking damage out of me, while I did have the Igneous up, it's not working for me. For my (dps) StamDK, and MagDK, I'm feeling better with the Bone Shield; whereas, my tanks 40k hp and the 60k hp one, yeah, I'm fine with the Igneous Shield for them.

    Anyways.. and not to get too much off track, I have to disagree again with the nerf thing. No.. the Igneous Shield never needed a nerf, shouldn't have gotten nerfed, and nerfing, in general for this game, should be a crime. Nothing should need to be nerfed. Again, we will have to agree to disagree on this as well. Hey, game on.. it's all good. Whatever works for you, you're playing your toon, and I'm playing mine.

    To achieve balance you sometimes have to nerf, if all we do is buff then we end up with a lot more work trying to get everything else up to speed and we get more of a power tsunami rather than a power creep. You would have to rebalance the entire game over and over if all you do is buff. In the end you end up with a crap ton more work and power creeps and WoW style numbers with light attacks doing 165472342 damage or something stupid like that.

    I appreciate your comment being constructive on supporting nerfing; although we are kind of deviating a bit off this thread. You'll be surprised (or not) how many unconstructive comments and replies are being, or were posted on other threads relating to supporting or not support of nerfing.. Ok, no intention and hoping not to start a full blown debate here on nerfing, but just to add on a tad bit and trying not to devious any much more off the relevant this thread's topic. Still no, on my part for nerfing. You don't need to add on or increase power and juice to toons constantly. Keep the same or add on one or two new or improved skills with each DLC, or the likes.

    Surely, with every new DLC and patch, the entire contents of the DLC are new and have been newly developed or worked on, and it also affects the entire ESO spectrum in one way, shape or form. So, I don't see it being that difficult or hard if every new DLC is being released quarterly or so. Furthermore, with each new DLC, certain contents such as world boss pits, trials and/or dungeons have been increased in difficulties. This alone will keep any "power creeping" potential at bay, for those that do not favor such thing. Also, such as CWC, even adds and trash mobs are given new and somewhat interesting skills or whatever; although the overland content is still quite easy (which is fine.) Nerfing is just going backward; toons, build and skillsets/abilities being dwindled. It's not forward progress, which all things successful, or with potential success are based on. Anyways, I don't want to get into an argument or debate on nerfing on here. There are plenty of other threads for that. Ha ha



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