Bleed Builds

Thogard

What is the best class to play a bleed build on? I’m thinking it’s DK because you can pump up thaumaturge and still get good DK DoT dmg, whilst being tanky and still having major mending... but almost all the new fotm bleed builds I’m coming up against are on nightblades.

Why is that? Is it just because they get major defile through a clas ult and don’t need to slot 1h/s to DoT kill their target?

Kartalin

@Drakkdjinn has been using his stam sorc for his bleed build I believe. I think you have a lot of flexibility because your bleed effects come from 2h and DW weapon abilities (and WW) rather than class abilities. Might just come down to which character you feel more comfortable running it on. The major defile definitely helps though, consider a Warden running Corrupting Pollen...

Lexxypwns

Imo, stamplar. There's already reason to invest in thaumaturge, much like stam DK, but a higher native damage potential. Then you consider that bleeds+PotL have excellent synergy. Access to major savagery via the class spammable also means you have an extra skill slot a DK wouldn't(or better potions). Stam sorc would be a close second since you're already investing into thaum and its got a superior kit to stam DK in basically every way. Then stam warden, stam DK, stamblade in that order.

Just my opinion.

TBois

I love my dot build on my stam sorc. I've been thinking of switching bow back bar for 2h to focus on bleeds. Just wanted to through this in to say I agree with the comments above.

Brutusmax1mus

Reverb bash is a much easier form of defile and you can ensure. Bleed builds are also more about longevity because they require time to apply, defile, and wither the enemy down. When i did one i ran snb/dw dk with twin sisters, pillar of nirn.

Both sets procs, blood craze, axe bleed. Ran low slash to keep them slowed so pillar of nirn could hit as it has a delay. Plus it maims.

You could also go blood drinker/ any damage set and do 2h and dw. The bleeds from both of those stack and can crit.

2h bleed, dw bleed, rending slashes, carve. No defile here, but all bleeds can crit. Nb for incap is a good choice as you mentioned. Poisons or glyphs work great too. They are both totally different styles. I never did the second so i cant speak on it.

React

So hands down the best bleed class is stam sorc. This is because you have passive damage from hurricane, great passives for physical damage, and the ability to run s/b and DW while getting brutality from another source besides rally. Having s/b back bar allows you to use reverb as your cc, which means you can defile the hell out of people and watch them melt to your dots, spammable, and ult while they try to heal themselves. Not to mention dark deal is still an op sustain tool.

Now that being said, I've mained stamplar for what feels like about 2.5 years at this point. Since one tamriel, I've used what you'd refer to as a bleed build. While playing a dw build on stamplar pretty much requires you to run 2h back bar and to use javelin as your cc, it also gives you one of the strongest burst tools to compliment your bleed damage: power of the light. You use one axe on the DW bar and whatever other 1h weapon you'd like. The rotation goes heavy attack -> rending slashes -> POTL -> jabs -> jabs -> dawnbreaker -> jabs. Essentially what the bleeds do is build damage on the potl burst without the damage being mitigated by resistances or blocking - this means it is guaranteed to contribute to the potl. That combined with your other sources of consistent, unavoidable damage (jabs and dawny) will ensure you get as much damage as possible towards the potl buildup, thus guaranteeing the best burst.

I'd recommend stamplar if you're learning the game and not max cp, as right now it is easier to play than stam sorc. That being said, choose whatever class better suits your playstyle and experiment! You'll find a setup you're comfortable with eitherway.

Waffennacht

I was gonna say Templars and Sorcs

Ragnaroek93

Stamnb because Surprise Attack and Incap can proc the bleed. The uptime on the bleed is insane if you can weave while wearing two axes. It's not a pure bleed build tho.

Lexxypwns

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

Stamnb because Surprise Attack and Incap can proc the bleed. The uptime on the bleed is insane if you can weave while wearing two axes. It's not a pure bleed build tho.

you should never run 2 axes on dw as the bleeds will refresh themselves and you won't get nearly the same amount of damage that the other weapon choices offer.

Ragnarock41

I also thought It would be Dk because of the two poison dots I had.
But when it came to actually testing it, I was ridicilously outclassed by bleed nbs.
They were more slippery, had more damage and sustain, they also had proper executes, spammables to use on their front bar.
and cloak was just icing on the cake at that point.

After that I never tried a DW bleed build again (on my DK at least)

PS: lack of any escapes and a spammable hurts even more when I drop 1h-shield.
I could run dots with 1h-shield but then that wouldnt be a bleed build, that would be a regular stamDk bruiser build.

PS2: new master battleaxe is a great way to make brawler viable, since 2h is only a back bar for my dw dot build, I believe this would be very valueable. but then again, It isnt gonna magically make dk better than any other class since everyone else has access to it.

CyrusArya

Is everything people die to considered fotm now? I was playing bleed blade before most on NA, with only Braidas and Asgari being the only ppl I seen run it before. There are some more now, but its hardly fotm. Just has more representation now than before which was 0.

To answer your question, Stamplar and Nightblade. Stamplar because of POTL and the fact that you can really amp up thaumaturge on a duel wield spec since you have little direct damage. Nightblade makes the best bleed builds tho because you have a defile as well as extremely strong direct damage to punctuate the dots.

Then I’d say stam sorc after that. DK is probably the worst, and relies too much on the execute to secure kills although it is super tanky and sustainable. Not including warden cus I don’t even see the relevance of a bleed spec on that class.

Thogard

CyrusArya wrote: »

Is everything people die to considered fotm now? I was playing bleed blade before most on NA, with only Braidas and Asgari being the only ppl I seen run it before. There are some more now, but its hardly fotm. Just has more representation now than before which was 0.

To answer your question, Stamplar and Nightblade. Stamplar because of POTL and the fact that you can really amp up thaumaturge on a duel wield spec since you have little direct damage. Nightblade makes the best bleed builds tho because you have a defile as well as extremely strong direct damage to punctuate the dots.

Then I’d say stam sorc after that. DK is probably the worst, and relies too much on the execute to secure kills although it is super tanky and sustainable. Not including warden cus I don’t even see the relevance of a bleed spec on that class.

I was more referring to the new type of bleed build that actually works.

I was getting hit for 5k a tic from just rending slashes the other night. Was in heavy armor but that doesn’t make a difference. It was pretty brutal.

These new vDSA weapon changes are really interesting.

CyrusArya

Thogard wrote: »

I was more referring to the new type of bleed build that actually works.

I was getting hit for 5k a tic from just rending slashes the other night. Was in heavy armor but that doesn’t make a difference. It was pretty brutal.

These new vDSA weapon changes are really interesting.

Yeah dude they are really strong and super fun. I run the same build open world and in duels and have been having a blast. But I wouldn’t call it fotm cus 2h/Bow Stamblades with the Asylum 2H and Master Bow are absolutely competitive if not better. Bleed builds really shine in 1v1 encounters, but imo the counter seems to be mobility and kiting to keep them off you so they can’t apply pressure, as well as (ironically) block specs that can dish heavy damage.

From what I gather however the reign of bleed specs in duels is coming to an end in favor of defile specs, in case anyone wants to hop on the emergent meta. I personally really love dual wield dot builds tho cus it’s my favorite mechanics and playstyle so ima stick to it.

ak_pvp

Templars or sorcs as above.

I'd edge towards sorcs as they have another passive forced dot (Hurricane) and better mobility, also the ability to lock characters down with rune. (Old rune was better for dot builds but eh.) They also use flury, which is more likely to proc bleed from axes vs jabs.

Though templars can add some nice bust dmg with unblockable POTL and burning light procs.

Ragnaroek93

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

Stamnb because Surprise Attack and Incap can proc the bleed. The uptime on the bleed is insane if you can weave while wearing two axes. It's not a pure bleed build tho.

you should never run 2 axes on dw as the bleeds will refresh themselves and you won't get nearly the same amount of damage that the other weapon choices offer.

2 axes gave me the best results by far. Yes, it's buggy that the bleed can refresh themself but the higher uptime is stillt completely worth it.

Thogard

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

Stamnb because Surprise Attack and Incap can proc the bleed. The uptime on the bleed is insane if you can weave while wearing two axes. It's not a pure bleed build tho.

you should never run 2 axes on dw as the bleeds will refresh themselves and you won't get nearly the same amount of damage that the other weapon choices offer.

2 axes gave me the best results by far. Yes, it's buggy that the bleed can refresh themself but the higher uptime is stillt completely worth it.

I think it depends if DW is your main bar or just your “apply dots and buff” bar

Toast_STS

I've made a DoT stam DK last week, it's pretty fun but probably not the bleed build your looking for.

5 viper on both bars with maelstrom axe on the back bar. 2 skoria and 5 piece assasins guile on the dual wield bar. 1 crit rush into venomous claw is putting 28k DoT (tooltip) damage on the target. Assasins guile adds another 10k damage and 8k heals to my drain health poison which both can crit.

Here is the secret though. With corrosive armor up all my poison Dots are treated as bleeds giving them 100% armor and block penetration. It's expensive ulti but it's worth it. The Dots must be applied during corrosive to get this buff though and will still do the full penetration after you lose the buff.

waitwhat

@Thogard

One of the advantages on an NB with bleed is that you can apply the DoT (with say, master's daggers or whatever), and then cloak, whereupon all the bleed ticks immediately start critting.

Since bleed ignores physical resist, an NB build based around that status effect can invest more into crit chance and crit damage, overcoming most people's Impen with shadow + piercing.

Sure, you won't kill as easily if they have over 2k crit resist, but a dirty secret of Cyrodiil is that less and less people have been wearing impen since sustain and stamblades got a nerf. Not many people expect a stam crit build to come at them anymore.

waitwhat

Also @Thogard I wouldn't rely on axes to proc bleed. I wouldn't leave a DoT that powerful up to chance if you do a nightblade. Your margin of error is small enough already. Try Rending Slashes (with Master's DW weaps) or carve. Blooddrinker may be worth a look, but I haven't bothered to try it yet.

Thogard

waitwhat wrote: »

@Thogard

One of the advantages on an NB with bleed is that you can apply the DoT (with say, master's daggers or whatever), and then cloak, whereupon all the bleed ticks immediately start critting.

.

Thanks! That’s the piece of the puzzle I was missing and needed to know.

waitwhat

Thogard wrote: »

waitwhat wrote: »

@Thogard

One of the advantages on an NB with bleed is that you can apply the DoT (with say, master's daggers or whatever), and then cloak, whereupon all the bleed ticks immediately start critting.

.

Thanks! That’s the piece of the puzzle I was missing and needed to know.

@Thogard No prob!

Also, wardens and templars will always be a hard counter to a bleed build, because they have easy access to cleanses with netch + ritual.

Derra

CyrusArya wrote: »

From what I gather however the reign of bleed specs in duels is coming to an end in favor of defile specs, in case anyone wants to hop on the emergent meta. I personally really love dual wield dot builds tho cus it’s my favorite mechanics and playstyle so ima stick to it.

Defile specs are going to achieve one thing: Shift the perception of mblade and msorc to even more op.

Rianai

waitwhat wrote: »

One of the advantages on an NB with bleed is that you can apply the DoT (with say, master's daggers or whatever), and then cloak, whereupon all the bleed ticks immediately start critting.

Unless they changed it recently, DoTs - like any damage - consume the guaranteed crit buff and therefore you get only one critical tick. It does not work like heals.

Chilly-McFreeze

ak_pvp wrote: »

They also use flury, which is more likely to proc bleed from axes vs jabs.

Are you sure flurry can proc tbab bleed? Thought only la and ha can do that.

Trashs1

i tried a blead build and farmed bloodtrinker set for it.

paired with another dmg set i came on my tests with dw ult+ dw bleed skill+ axebleed not above 2.700 per tick (duell)

every vigor can outheal this easily so i went back to my old build

Qbiken

Trashs1 wrote: »

i tried a blead build and farmed bloodtrinker set for it.

paired with another dmg set i came on my tests with dw ult+ dw bleed skill+ axebleed not above 2.700 per tick (duell)

every vigor can outheal this easily so i went back to my old build

Blooddrinker is an insane set though.....just saying....

Thogard

waitwhat wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

waitwhat wrote: »

@Thogard

One of the advantages on an NB with bleed is that you can apply the DoT (with say, master's daggers or whatever), and then cloak, whereupon all the bleed ticks immediately start critting.

.

Thanks! That’s the piece of the puzzle I was missing and needed to know.

@Thogard No prob!

Also, wardens and templars will always be a hard counter to a bleed build, because they have easy access to cleanses with netch + ritual.

My blue netch purges 1 effect per cast

Trashs1 wrote: »

i tried a blead build and farmed bloodtrinker set for it.

paired with another dmg set i came on my tests with dw ult+ dw bleed skill+ axebleed not above 2.700 per tick (duell)

every vigor can outheal this easily so i went back to my old build

I don’t think blood drinker is the best way to max out a bleed build. I was literally getting hit for OVER 5k a tic in pvp.

I’m wondering if it’s feasible to stack VMA dual wield (after a flurry, extra 2kish dmg on next single target DOT) with the vDSA dual wield (bleed ticks for 1500ish more per tic)

I must do some testing...

Sixty5

Been running Stam Sorc bleed build myself, and I must say, it is pretty damn potent in battlegrounds.

Blood Drinker plus Shacklebreaker

Maelstrom 2h front bar and Masters Dagger + Axe back bar.

Been too lazy to test if the Malestrom thing counts as a bleed, but all in all 2h Axe bleed plus Brawler bleed, along with Rending Slashes and 1h Axe bleed gives you a lot of damage pressure, along with being a pretty smooth rotation to get down.

I like it most on Stam Sorc mostly because Bleeds are counted as a physical dot, so you get some pretty nice synergy with implosion, along with some strong utility skills.

Swen_von_Walhallion

for bleed build i think best is WW, you leap on enemy hit im with LA, Fear him, and its hurt lot. But on other side bleeding builds have one big disadvntage and its purgin, NB, Wardens and Teplar can clear self from dots by own skill. Ans as staplar i have rly good fun when enemy try aply dots on me

TankHealz2015

I experimented with the following:

Hulking set 5pc is all + stam

Blood-drinker set 5pc is +20% bleed damge

Veledreth monster helmet set drops poison party balls

Werewolf -- the beserker build - the morph with no pets

CP into Thaumaturge (DoT) bumps up the bleed.

Pounce in, light attack, light attack, Howl, Disease, light attack, light attack... pounce away,... sick damage.


Only problem is that Cyridil open world is very situational and it's almost impossible to be consistent.

Lexxypwns

TankHealz2015 wrote: »

I experimented with the following:

Hulking set 5pc is all + stam

Blood-drinker set 5pc is +20% bleed damge

Veledreth monster helmet set drops poison party balls

Werewolf -- the beserker build - the morph with no pets

CP into Thaumaturge (DoT) bumps up the bleed.

Pounce in, light attack, light attack, Howl, Disease, light attack, light attack... pounce away,... sick damage.


Only problem is that Cyridil open world is very situational and it's almost impossible to be consistent.

Run Kena on WW bleed builds imo