A Difficult PVE DLC - Dark Souls Difficulty

LonePirate

A_G_G_R_O wrote: »

LonePirate wrote: »

I wonder if the OP played the game at PC launch when there was no CP system and the zones, particularly the veteran 6-10 zones, were punishing, if not impossible for many players. I also wonder if the OP remembers how dead Craglorn was from roughly late 2014 to One Tamriel when the only people in the zone were trial players and nirncrux farmers.

This game has had difficult solo/questing/overland content in the past. It largely collected dust and went unplayed. The same fate would befall similar painfully difficult content in the future. Why should ZOS pump out content if very few people end up playing it?

I did. And I want difficulty. I wonder if you make a post that is not based on the credibility of the OP and think in a manner that is objectively constructive to the longevity of an aging game that needs a breath of fresh air.

What you consider fresh air is poisonous gas to someone else. The fact remains that Craglorn content apart from trials was unplayed for two years for the vast majority of players. Also the Cadwell’s Gold zones were lightly populated from May 2014 until the mob nerf in July 2014 which led to a noticeable uptick before the gradual decline over time prior to 1T.

You say you want added difficulty which is an opinion you’re welcome to hold. The history of this game suggests the player base largely disagrees with that opinion, though.

A_G_G_R_O

LonePirate wrote: »

A_G_G_R_O wrote: »

LonePirate wrote: »

I wonder if the OP played the game at PC launch when there was no CP system and the zones, particularly the veteran 6-10 zones, were punishing, if not impossible for many players. I also wonder if the OP remembers how dead Craglorn was from roughly late 2014 to One Tamriel when the only people in the zone were trial players and nirncrux farmers.

This game has had difficult solo/questing/overland content in the past. It largely collected dust and went unplayed. The same fate would befall similar painfully difficult content in the future. Why should ZOS pump out content if very few people end up playing it?

I did. And I want difficulty. I wonder if you make a post that is not based on the credibility of the OP and think in a manner that is objectively constructive to the longevity of an aging game that needs a breath of fresh air.

What you consider fresh air is poisonous gas to someone else. The fact remains that Craglorn content apart from trials was unplayed for two years for the vast majority of players. Also the Cadwell’s Gold zones were lightly populated from May 2014 until the mob nerf in July 2014 which led to a noticeable uptick before the gradual decline over time prior to 1T.

You say you want added difficulty which is an opinion you’re welcome to hold. The history of this game suggests the player base largely disagrees with that opinion, though.

Yeah well, a large group of the player base wants an improved cyrodiil... so by your logic we are getting that right?
I guess the best pvp will come from me 1vXing these forums.

Get forum Dawnbreaker REV SLICED SON! uninstall your browswer ggwp.

Kriptiq

Katahdin wrote: »

Then ask for another VMA type thing. Most people wouldn't mind that.

A super hard zone was already tried, it's Craglorn. It was a barren wasteland before they changed it. No one ever went there except for people farming nirncrux.

As far as getting better rewards....Yea good luck with that. Most of the rewards in this game are not rewarding....working as intended.

Actually, if you played during the start.... Craglorn was actually hard content to solo. Back in the vet days doing those quest there to hit v14 / v16 solo, before CP and all the other care-bear nerfs. I was practically an unkillable cleave sheild blazing shield jab spamming DansgamePlar and even i died at times granted i pulled every monster possible in an area.

Craglorn was dead because there was nothing rewarding beside weekly quests, crafting writs, and nodes to hit for nirn.
if mobs there had like pre-allocated unique drop-only set pieces that were actually decent it would be loaded with people.

Shoot look at how crazy it was when they added zone based sets from bosses, craglorn and tons of other zones used to be litt

with all that being said.... it's hard to revive a rapidly dying game. R.i.p vanilla eso "(Pre-Combat Update, Pre-CP, Pre-Wrobel)"

Runschei

Make the quests encourage the use of smart pulling or sneaking past mobs

People would start complaining over ZOS releasing yet another DLC for 'nightblades only'

Vapirko

This game used to have a reasonable amount of challenge. Public dungeons were no joke if you were leveling and/or alone. vMA was designed with 300cp in mind, now people recommend having at least 500cp before attempting it. It’s stupidly easy now for anyone who wants to figure out how to actually play.

kylewwefan

You crazy af. Need something tuff? Try Vet group finder pug. Try VMoL with only people in zone chat. Or any vet trial.

I guarantee it won’t take long to realize why there is no need for any harder content than what’s already out there.

Doctordarkspawn

A_G_G_R_O wrote: »

Craglorn failed because you actually had to artificially group to do the quests and it was introduced if I recall during the arduous painful days of the vet ranking over cp system.

Craglorn failed because people dont want to group together.

What you are suggesting will either drive people away, or play exactly like it.

Sorry to break it to you, but that's the reality of it. Your not going to give it, longevity, or a breath of fresh air. Your going to do quite the opposite.

Doctordarkspawn

kwisatz wrote: »

Kiralyn2000 wrote: »

seedubsrun wrote: »

Voxicity wrote: »

Katahdin wrote: »

Yea, no.

Try soloing vet dungeons if you want that level of difficulty, after that, solo trials.
Still no enough?
Go play suicide mode on Dasksouls if you want to bang your head against a wall.

Here we have the classic "Go solo vet dungeons" or "play naked" argument.

The main issue with this is we are not looking for challenging content just because it's hard. We want it to have rewards for the player overcoming challenges that not everyone can do. It's not enjoyable to do content for no reason, especially in an MMO.

Casuals can clear vet dungeons and get rewards

More advanced players should be able to earn better rewards (ie gold jewlery, perfect weapons, vma weapons)

A DLC like this would be no different, except it would be catered towards solo play rather than large raid groups.

I remember my first time clearing vma, and first time getting flawless. There isn't another jnstance in this game that has replicated that amazing experience. Except maybe vDSA

So yeah, it's not just about wanting hard content, it's about wanting hard MEANINGFUL content.

Exactly. If you're an extremely good basketball player that's bored beating all the other neighborhood players you don't cover the court in broken glass and play with no shoes on for an additional challenge, you go try out for a minor or pro league to get meaningful challenge that fulfills you

Exactly. If you're not challenged by your neighborhood basketball, you go play in a different league. ESO is your neighborhood basketball. Some other designed-for-awesome-dudes game is that different league. /shrug

---

As someone else said, it wouldn't make much financial sense for them to make an entire DLC that excludes a large portion of the playerbase. That wouldn't make them as much money, so they wouldn't do it. (Trials/dungeons/hardmodes within that DLC, sure. Entire DLC? Nope.)

Please, stop answering "dungeons" and "trials" each time someone claim for a little bit challenging content!
There is life outside dungeons. In fact, there is people that doesn't like doing dungeons again and again. I don't.

And yet if I asked you for anything relating to them you would throw a fit like a ten year old.

I'ma spell it out, G R E E D is what motivates you people, and it should not be indulged.

Onefrkncrzypope

craglorn was a failure because how difficult it was. The only people were nirn farmers. Overland make me feel like its for the casuals that don't have the same abilities for difficult content. Let everyone have a piece of eso.

MercTheMage

I’m not even gonna read anything, just ... Yes.

I was discussing this with a friend earlier, and we were saying "when was the last time we actually had to try in PvE"
And I don’t mean trials and vet dungeons, I mean like a quest or something where we didn’t oneshot the damn boss with a light attack -_-
Probably back before they castrated craglorn. Where a wasp and his buddies made you their *** if you didn’t give it your all. Those were the days.

MercTheMage

PS: For gods sake ZOS, no ones saying add a bunch of *** oneshot mechanics to everything, we don’t want overworld vMA. Just make mobs hit a little harder maybe, maybe not be total pushovers.

Khenarthi

If a hardmode DLC is released, I'll unsubscribe for a while (because I don't buy DLC), like I did after Upper Craglorn release.

Both as a protest, and because I have zero interest in a challenge. I play to relax.

SilverIce58

I'm not entirely sure why people are always like "dark souls like game" or "make the content harder like dark souls" because dark souls really isn't that hard after a time. Everytime you die in dark souls (almost everytime, sometimes it can be the game's fault) it's because of a mistake you made, and after playing it enough times, it just becomes easy and about memorization of the enemy's and boss's tactics. Just like vMA. Dark souls treats you like an adult, and maybe that's what you're asking for. For the game, and ZOS, to treat you like an adult.

bloodthirstyvampire

Casual carebears would have it nerfed to the ground because its not rp friendly

Rawkan

Dark souls isn't really "difficult" only tedious.

Linaleah

honestly at this point. i hope ZOS takes you all up on your bloody whining and gives you the difficult and very very empty DLC that you so desire. so that we could once and for all resolve this "if only game was more challenging, it would be better/more popular/whatever" insistence. heck, make it one of the DLC of the 3 a year. i don't even care anymore, I'll take that hit, personaly. (as I won't be playing it, will have acess cause ESO+ but not touching it with a 10 foot pole, beating my head on the wall repeatedly is not my idea of fun)

I just want "the game is too easy" threads to stop.

P.S. whenever I say "I want it to have better rewards" the truth comes out. back when I started playing video games? harder difficulties didn't exist to give you better rewards, they existed to give variety of people the kind of challenge they enjoy. you didn't play on harder difficulty because of shinies at the end of the tunnel, you played it becasue you could.

nowadays, the really reason people want harder difficulty is too show off how much better they are then everyone else. and that is just... sad.

Rex-Umbra

Npcs need to behave more like players not just given more hp.

Strider__Roshin

Rawkan wrote: »

Dark souls isn't really "difficult" only tedious.

It's only tedious if you make it that way. Considering the variation in monsters, and the fact that you can clear that game in 1 to 3 hours if you're good enough, I would hardly call it tedious.

Strider__Roshin

SilverIce58 wrote: »

I'm not entirely sure why people are always like "dark souls like game" or "make the content harder like dark souls" because dark souls really isn't that hard after a time. Everytime you die in dark souls (almost everytime, sometimes it can be the game's fault) it's because of a mistake you made, and after playing it enough times, it just becomes easy and about memorization of the enemy's and boss's tactics. Just like vMA. Dark souls treats you like an adult, and maybe that's what you're asking for. For the game, and ZOS, to treat you like an adult.

People say a game is like Dark Souls whenever it's very skill based, and victory isn't hand fed to you. So pretty much the opposite of this game. They even compared Monster Hunter to Dark Souls even though they're nothing alike lol

Strider__Roshin

Khenarthi wrote: »

If a hardmode DLC is released, I'll unsubscribe for a while (because I don't buy DLC), like I did after Upper Craglorn release.

Both as a protest, and because I have zero interest in a challenge. I play to relax.

This must be the perfect game for you then.

Strider__Roshin

Rex-Umbra wrote: »

Npcs need to behave more like players not just given more hp.

I would love this. The lots of HP approach is just laziness. However they need to be a little more tanky than what they currently are.

Cadbury

Dark Souls is considered "hard"?

A_G_G_R_O

Cadbury wrote: »

Dark Souls is considered "hard"?

ESO isn't braindead easy?

Linaleah

A_G_G_R_O wrote: »

Linaleah wrote: »

honestly at this point. i hope ZOS takes you all up on your bloody whining and gives you the difficult and very very empty DLC that you so desire. so that we could once and for all resolve this "if only game was more challenging, it would be better/more popular/whatever" insistence. heck, make it one of the DLC of the 3 a year. i don't even care anymore, I'll take that hit, personaly. (as I won't be playing it, will have acess cause ESO+ but not touching it with a 10 foot pole, beating my head on the wall repeatedly is not my idea of fun)

I just want "the game is too easy" threads to stop.

P.S. whenever I say "I want it to have better rewards" the truth comes out. back when I started playing video games? harder difficulties didn't exist to give you better rewards, they existed to give variety of people the kind of challenge they enjoy. you didn't play on harder difficulty because of shinies at the end of the tunnel, you played it becasue you could.

nowadays, the really reason people want harder difficulty is too show off how much better they are then everyone else. and that is just... sad.

[Snip]

says the stranger on the internet who knows nothing about me or my in game social habits...

there is a difference between CHOOSING to group and being FORCED to group. only one of those is fun for most people.

[Edited for quote]

Cadbury

A_G_G_R_O wrote: »

Cadbury wrote: »

Dark Souls is considered "hard"?

ESO isn't braindead easy?

Is it?

There has been a few topics in the past suggesting a difficulty slider for the overworld, which IMO would be a welcome addition to the game.

But yeah, the Souls series isn't what I'd call "hard"

Bloodbourne, maybe...

SupremeRissole

Definately agree they need a dlc zone that has significantly more difficult questing, similar with how craglorn has more difficult add pulls in comparison to the other zones. However more difficulty would be nice with unique adds with interesting mechanics.

dday3six

Neither Demon’s Souls, Dark Souls 1, 2, 3, or Bloodborne were really difficult. Nor was Lords of the Fallen or Nioh for that matter. Demon’s Souls was drastically different than most players were use to, thus giving the sense of difficulty via learning curve progression. The subsequent popularity spawned a marketing campaign based around selling the challenging nature of the series. It’s a meme at this point.

ESO is not a Souls game, and you’ll never get Souls “difficulty”, in ESO, because of the difference between them. I get it’s a reference, but the reason I mentioned Lords of the Fallen and Nioh is due to the similarities they inspirationally share with the Souls series, that allows them to mimic the TM ‘Soul’s Difficulty’. ESO doesn’t have that. I’m all for asking for increased challenge in ESO. However you need a realistic baseline that does revolve around buying into a marketing gimmick.

KochDerDamonen

Voxicity wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

Sorry, but no.

If you want dark souls, go play it. Stop trying to monopolize every game you get.

^ Salty because he only plays as a tank and wouldn't be able to clear the content

@Voxicity If this game had content that were dark-souls like, you would be able to complete it at level 1 with no gear.

Source: Broken Broken Sword, Broken Ladel runs

kwisatz

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

kwisatz wrote: »

Kiralyn2000 wrote: »

seedubsrun wrote: »

Voxicity wrote: »

Katahdin wrote: »

Yea, no.

Try soloing vet dungeons if you want that level of difficulty, after that, solo trials.
Still no enough?
Go play suicide mode on Dasksouls if you want to bang your head against a wall.

Here we have the classic "Go solo vet dungeons" or "play naked" argument.

The main issue with this is we are not looking for challenging content just because it's hard. We want it to have rewards for the player overcoming challenges that not everyone can do. It's not enjoyable to do content for no reason, especially in an MMO.

Casuals can clear vet dungeons and get rewards

More advanced players should be able to earn better rewards (ie gold jewlery, perfect weapons, vma weapons)

A DLC like this would be no different, except it would be catered towards solo play rather than large raid groups.

I remember my first time clearing vma, and first time getting flawless. There isn't another jnstance in this game that has replicated that amazing experience. Except maybe vDSA

So yeah, it's not just about wanting hard content, it's about wanting hard MEANINGFUL content.

Exactly. If you're an extremely good basketball player that's bored beating all the other neighborhood players you don't cover the court in broken glass and play with no shoes on for an additional challenge, you go try out for a minor or pro league to get meaningful challenge that fulfills you

Exactly. If you're not challenged by your neighborhood basketball, you go play in a different league. ESO is your neighborhood basketball. Some other designed-for-awesome-dudes game is that different league. /shrug

---

As someone else said, it wouldn't make much financial sense for them to make an entire DLC that excludes a large portion of the playerbase. That wouldn't make them as much money, so they wouldn't do it. (Trials/dungeons/hardmodes within that DLC, sure. Entire DLC? Nope.)

Please, stop answering "dungeons" and "trials" each time someone claim for a little bit challenging content!
There is life outside dungeons. In fact, there is people that doesn't like doing dungeons again and again. I don't.

And yet if I asked you for anything relating to them you would throw a fit like a ten year old.

I'ma spell it out, G R E E D is what motivates you people, and it should not be indulged.

I dont.
I often spend hours just walking around, exploring, listening. Call me freak, but I don't like to farm, I don't like to grind, I don't like to deo dailies, I just want to play my immersive way and don't care much for rewards. My reward is playing with people I like and have an interesting and yet reasonable challenge to face and eventually win.

Running around and smash everything in seconds anytime you play two or three people together is not fun at all.
And no, I'm not a super pro. For example, I never cleared MA (truth being said, playing alone is so boring! but anyway, I never cleared MA.)

Cadbury

KochDerDamonen wrote: »

Voxicity wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

Sorry, but no.

If you want dark souls, go play it. Stop trying to monopolize every game you get.

^ Salty because he only plays as a tank and wouldn't be able to clear the content

@Voxicity If this game had content that were dark-souls like, you would be able to complete it at level 1 with no gear.

Source: Broken Broken Sword, Broken Ladel runs

The trick is to know how to dodge