A Difficult PVE DLC - Dark Souls Difficulty

A_G_G_R_O · November 2017

I would love to see an intensely Difficult DLC where the quests and delves and public dungeons made you fear to go alone. They could make it an oblivion gate themed dlc to allow some instancing to create a creepy dark looming feel without seeing 20 other players in zone plowing through the quests.

Make the quests encourage the use of smart pulling or sneaking past mobs
Add certain environment activated effects such as levers or traps inside of dungeons that can One Hit kill player or enemies (Think Amped up thieves guild traps)
Have a new 4 person trial like vDSA a the new raid within it

I think having a hardcore difficult questing zone that has vibes of dark souls esk style risk would be a very rewarding addition to the questing community for as it is currently you just steam roll the content. Maybe they make it when you enter the oblivion gate DLC you are cut off from the mundus, and thus your CP is disabled, this would make for some interesting play where one cannot out scale the content by a large amount and make running hybrid builds to beat the content possibly more valid. I am primarily a PvP'er and have found the only challenging PvE was vDSA,.vMA, and vMoL (the last trial I completed before going fully to pvp).

I think the Zenimax employees disservice their great story quests by not helping increase the immersion and feeling of danger, the need to... ask for help to do a quest. These things are common in many MMOs where all quests are solo'd but I think a DLC where they made things so hard only the elite could go alone and not without a fair share of suffering, all else would band with their friends, it would make for some great content and enhance and enrich the story and aura of urgency to save x from y within the DLC.

I think once ZoS takes care of this they can next introduce a new PVP dlc with a factionless open world pvp zone as it's focus.

Thoughts?
ZoS Job Offers?

Post script 1: I think commenters are lost in the , but it’s just elitist trying to be elitist comments due to me saying its dangerous to go alone without much suffering. The whole point of that comment was because I was inferring that difficulty is used as a deterrent so folks would actually need to group for overland content that isn’t mass farming dolmens in Alikr Desert.
I am also sick of the because it was like this at launch we shouldn’t make a new DLC hard mentality. There is a lot of players who also left after that era because everything was a mindless cake walk. You don’t see yourself progress and become stronger in zone because you can beat the whole overland content in bogus gear and a crown stood broom without even dying.
The Go do vet trials and dungeons comment is also weak, one most of them are not even that hard and two they are stale one off instanced areas, and they also gate off most players due to knowing 11 other people with similar schedules. VMA and VDSA are the most unimaginative trials to date, just standing and fighting in a different retextured rectangle for multiple rounds. *yawns*
Finally this content isn’t forced onto you, it is an optional DLC. If DLCs were forced on to players we would actually have a population inside of Imperial City, because by your argument we forced it on them.

Feanor · November 2017

I’d play a very difficult DLC. But then I have ESO+ and play every DLC

Voxicity · November 2017

I would so be up for this. Vet trials have their place in end game, but I can never be bothered to find a group of 11 other people to run them with, or join a progression guild. It completely puts me off doing that content even though I love a challenge.

More difficult single/duo or small group content would be the perfect DLC for me

seedubsrun · November 2017

An actually difficult DLC would be amazing. Utilizing the fact that daedra are supposed to be scary instead of laughable would be amazing. Different mechanics that place an importance on things like sneaking would be amazing. But since Zos is more interested in getting new players and holding their hands through 95% of the content, actually giving the long term players that are desperately asking for more from a game they're struggling to love what they want seems more and more like a pipe dream everyday.

crjs1 · November 2017

I think DLCs should be accessible to all who pay for them so not insanly difficult - though difficulty options would be good. I think zos and many players are burned by the craglorn experience which quickly died - so I wouldn’t expect a difficult zone anytime soon. I still believe all quest content should be soloable, no exceptions.

Doctordarkspawn · November 2017

Sorry, but no.

If you want dark souls, go play it. Stop trying to monopolize every game you get.

Voxicity · November 2017

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

Sorry, but no.

If you want dark souls, go play it. Stop trying to monopolize every game you get.

^ Salty because he only plays as a tank and wouldn't be able to clear the content

Feanor · November 2017

No thread about game difficulty without a @Doctordarkspawn comment. I thought he doesn’t even play the game any longer.

Voxicity · November 2017

Feanor wrote: »

No thread about game difficulty without a @Doctordarkspawn comment. I thought he doesn’t even play the game any longer.

I believe he has been playing the new Super Mario game since it suits his skill level

Feanor · November 2017

crjs1 wrote: »

I think DLCs should be accessible to all who pay for them so not insanly difficult - though difficulty options would be good. I think zos and many players are burned by the craglorn experience which quickly died - so I wouldn’t expect a difficult zone anytime soon. I still believe all quest content should be soloable, no exceptions.

The problem with Craglorn was not that it was hard, but that it artificially required grouping up even for the quest line. It was totally unnecessary because the difficulty would have been great otherwise.

Doctordarkspawn · November 2017

Voxicity wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

No thread about game difficulty without a @Doctordarkspawn comment. I thought he doesn’t even play the game any longer.

I believe he has been playing the new Super Mario game since it suits his skill level

Wouldn't be a thread about difficulty with people insulting me and insinuating I only play easy games.

I hope you never get what you want.

jaysins · November 2017

I think they should look into the combat of the NPC's and try to make the difficulty based around more than just surviving X amount of one shot mechanics while you wither down their insane amount of health. Your idea of a zone would be a great place to test this out too. Implement it in a zone where the NPC's will group up and take you down, hit harder, do combos, and have a more PvP feel to them and actually try to make combat engaging instead of just standing there doing the same rotation over and over. At the very least just have an area of the zone where there are tons of resources to make it worth your while to farm, but not mandatory for the less skilled or motivated players to enter, and implement these harder NPC's and hopefully other world mechanics that could be used advantageously against MOBs or get you killed trying.

Jade1986 · November 2017

Would love it, but you can bet your backside it would be nerfed within a week because people say we are excluding casual players.

Voxicity · November 2017

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

Voxicity wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

No thread about game difficulty without a @Doctordarkspawn comment. I thought he doesn’t even play the game any longer.

I believe he has been playing the new Super Mario game since it suits his skill level

Wouldn't be a thread about difficulty with people insulting me and insinuating I only play easy games.

I hope you never get what you want.

I love you really

seedubsrun · November 2017

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

Voxicity wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

No thread about game difficulty without a @Doctordarkspawn comment. I thought he doesn’t even play the game any longer.

I believe he has been playing the new Super Mario game since it suits his skill level

Wouldn't be a thread about difficulty with people insulting me and insinuating I only play easy games.

I hope you never get what you want.

pfft haha I'm imagining him stomping his feet and screaming the last line while storming out of the room 6 year old style

OutLaw_Nynx · November 2017

Possibly. Just would have to have it in certain zones. Would be unfair to brand new players if this was everywhere lol

nnargun · November 2017

Would love to see some challenging questing. Soloable but challenging. Problem will be as always, barely soloable for a good player means impossible for not so good players. So it only works with instanced areas where you can apply difficulty levels.

Katahdin · November 2017

Yea, no.

Try soloing vet dungeons if you want that level of difficulty, after that, solo trials.
Still no enough?
Go play suicide mode on Dasksouls if you want to bang your head against a wall.

DMuehlhausen · November 2017

The problem is you are in the less than 1% of the population that would enjoy this probably. So it makes no financial sense to make it.

If that is what you want though wait for Chronicles of Elaryia or the new game from Brad McQuaid (EQ designer) they are both designed to be played in groups essentially at all times.

nnargun · November 2017

Katahdin wrote: »

Yea, no.

Try soloing vet dungeons if you want that level of difficulty, after that, solo trials.
Still no enough?
Go play suicide mode on Dasksouls if you want to bang your head against a wall.

That's not questing. It's killing monsters for the sake of killing them. No real motivation for me.

Feanor · November 2017

Also, concerning Craglorn, it was unfortunately rushed and therefore not polished. If it had offered really awesome loot (besides Nirnhoned blocked behind RNG) and not required grouping up it would have been an awesome experience. The vet rank 11 wasps could have taught legions of players how to play.

Jade1986 · November 2017

DMuehlhausen wrote: »

The problem is you are in the less than 1% of the population that would enjoy this probably. So it makes no financial sense to make it.

If that is what you want though wait for Chronicles of Elaryia or the new game from Brad McQuaid (EQ designer) they are both designed to be played in groups essentially at all times.

I actually made a poll about this, feel free to chime in, lets see what the forum things, I will post links on the ESO facebook page and twitter page too, and advertise it in zone chat, to make sure to get the broadest sample possible for a non zos peon.

seedubsrun · November 2017

Always amusing when someone suggests new content that's difficult and a bunch of people just say "If you want a challenge go play the same stuff you've played already". The fact that you can make old content harder by gimping yourself isn't lost on anyone but it's a stupid way to force the concept of challenge. The key in what people are asking for is "new content". In all fairness though, I do agree that across the board difficulty increases is unwise for the health of the game. I'll always advocate for additional (and optional) difficulty settings being added

DeadlyRecluse · November 2017

This game really doesn't have a great track record with increasing difficulty, though. Even when Craglorn was "hard," it was just that the numbers (hp of mobs, damage of their attacks) was difficult to contend with--once you reached a certain gearing it wasn't any harder than anything else, just more of a chore (ignoring the group requirements).

vMA, too, isn't actually so much "hard" as it is an exercise in memorization and repetition.

I'd love for some more challenging solo content, but not if it's just bloated numbers (like craglorn) or a few mechanics to learn, then burn through (like vMA)--and I don't really see another way to have increased PvE difficulty without a major AI rework.

One of the best ideas of this sort I've seen is an endless dungeon style, with procedural levels that remix mechanics AND have a slight increase in mob HP+damage amp every "level" you descend. Think 2 vMA levels mashed up at random every time you step down--so the potential for "fresh" challenge remains until you have mastered every possible mechanical combination--and even then, what if you get mechanics you are weak against at a very deep level, with high mob damage?

But who knows if the game can even support that kind of procedural approach.

Drummerx04 · November 2017

It would be pretty sweet to have the feel of old craglorn back. I remember going there when I was v3 for the first time and being hesitant to pull groups of enemies because they could clean the floor with me.

As long as nothing is impassible without extra group members (like standing on 3 buttons at the same time), then I'd love to see some more challenging regular content.

And before people mention, sure I could respec my character to have no cp, armor or weapons, but that morally defeats the purpose of gearing out a character to tackle tough content.

Kay1 · November 2017

Hahahaha he's asking this in this forum when the 95% of the active forum members are casuals who struggle to kill the wolves who attacks them while they are picking flowers

Voxicity · November 2017

Katahdin wrote: »

Yea, no.

Try soloing vet dungeons if you want that level of difficulty, after that, solo trials.
Still no enough?
Go play suicide mode on Dasksouls if you want to bang your head against a wall.

Here we have the classic "Go solo vet dungeons" or "play naked" argument.

The main issue with this is we are not looking for challenging content just because it's hard. We want it to have rewards for the player overcoming challenges that not everyone can do. It's not enjoyable to do content for no reason, especially in an MMO.

Casuals can clear vet dungeons and get rewards

More advanced players should be able to earn better rewards (ie gold jewlery, perfect weapons, vma weapons)

A DLC like this would be no different, except it would be catered towards solo play rather than large raid groups.

I remember my first time clearing vma, and first time getting flawless. There isn't another instance in this game that has replicated that amazing experience. Except maybe vDSA

So yeah, it's not just about wanting hard content, it's about wanting hard MEANINGFUL content.

Edit: fixing typos cause im on my phone at the pub

TequilaFire · November 2017

Obviously a lot of you were not here in the beginning where taking on a mud crab in a vet zone was difficult.
Tons of posts crying the game was too hard brought us where we are today.
The same would happen with a difficult DLC.

kwisatz · November 2017

"All content soloable" has a problem: it's so easy that it ruins playing with friends. In a multiplayer game, it's a real pity.

And no, I'm not one of those "min-max hardcore elitists" (being sarcastic, not judging oc).
I'm a player of immersion, and for me dungeons and trials are not "the game".
A rpg game is questing and exploring and confront villains and braving dangers... and I'd love do to so with my friends and guildies, as we did almost four years ago.

So yes, a very difficult zone would be very welcome; not to be "darksouls like", but simply to play again with friends other way than the boring walk we have now each time we play otherwise than solo.

seedubsrun · November 2017

Voxicity wrote: »

Katahdin wrote: »

Yea, no.

Try soloing vet dungeons if you want that level of difficulty, after that, solo trials.
Still no enough?
Go play suicide mode on Dasksouls if you want to bang your head against a wall.

Here we have the classic "Go solo vet dungeons" or "play naked" argument.

The main issue with this is we are not looking for challenging content just because it's hard. We want it to have rewards for the player overcoming challenges that not everyone can do. It's not enjoyable to do content for no reason, especially in an MMO.

Casuals can clear vet dungeons and get rewards

More advanced players should be able to earn better rewards (ie gold jewlery, perfect weapons, vma weapons)

A DLC like this would be no different, except it would be catered towards solo play rather than large raid groups.

I remember my first time clearing vma, and first time getting flawless. There isn't another jnstance in this game that has replicated that amazing experience. Except maybe vDSA

So yeah, it's not just about wanting hard content, it's about wanting hard MEANINGFUL content.

Exactly. If you're an extremely good basketball player that's bored beating all the other neighborhood players you don't cover the court in broken glass and play with no shoes on for an additional challenge, you go try out for a minor or pro league to get meaningful challenge that fulfills you

nnargun · November 2017

TequilaFire wrote: »

Obviously a lot of you were not here in the beginning where taking on a mud crab in a vet zone was difficult.
Tons of posts crying the game was too hard brought us where we are today.
The same would happen with a difficult DLC.

The game is actually still hard for someomne who has never really played an MMO. I remember when I leveled my very first character which was after One Tamriel already. I'd think about tactics to beat delve bosses etc. I recall the levels 20-40 or so being the hardest and I want that back. Approaching, dying, retrying, dying, tactics crafting, beating it, adrenaline....I wish I could be a noob again.