ZOS: Furniture blueprint drop rates are killing my fun!

manavortex

First of all, please excuse the title. I figured that I might as well go for full attention. I considered adding a few dozen exclamation marks as well, but there are limits as to how far I am willing to sink, even on behalf of a game I love.

Before I start this discussion, a disclaimer about the point of this post:
I'm on the autistic spectrum. Therefore any posts telling me to "just deal with it" or whatever people post who don't wish to acknowledge a point of view will not cause me to change my opinion.
I will express my feelings not in an attempt to engage in emotional blackmailing, but because I think that I am not the only one who feels like this, and that the decision to engage in games and to spend money is an emotional one, so I think they are worthy of consideration by whoever makes business decisions.


I have been attempting to be a master crafter ever-since I started playing ESO in early access. I have farmed and grinded for motifs, and while I have never done it excessively (I didn't farm Buoyant Armiger, I bought it for gems), I have kept it up. I'm currently missing pages from the four veteran dungeon motifs only. That has given me long-term motivations and checking off boxes in my excel sheet has given me a sense of achievement and success.

When Housing launched, I have been looking forward to applying the same principle on furniture recipes. Due to the huge number of the available options, I have written an AddOn to help me keeping track. I know every Dark Elf recipe in the game, even those two who were bugged and didn't drop. I got them as soon as they did. I don't have numbers from the top of my head, but I would say that I know at least 90% of recipes that launched with Homestead and were available - over thousand at least.

However, after farming Dreloth tomb for over three months on four characters, looting at least two hundred urns daily, the total number of epic Vvardenfell (House) recipes that I can make is six. As I have stated in the desperate plea of the fan who loves housing, this is killing my fun.

For a more detailed description of the scale of the problem, see @Wraithscream's comment below:

39,000 urns now looted now. Only 1 Purple Morrowind pattern.

Being on the autism spectrum means that I am nothing if not consistent. The longest break I ever took from ESO was a week when Mass Effect: Andromeda launched. I have logged in every day unless I was on vacation without computer access, which probably doesn't even amount to an entire month, since early access.
I do not have other games next to ESO.
I do not take the game's name in vain.
Not because I feel compelled to do that or anything, but because that is how I work. I pick things and stick to them, it's a thing autistic people do, it's a thing I do and always have done.

However, I'm beginning to detach myself from the game, and, knowing myself, once that process is complete it will be irreversible (it has happened before). I do not want that.
Right now, the greatest feeling of reward I have is when I manage to scrape together some gold and find furniture recipes I don't know yet to a price I can afford. (I don't play much, that means I don't farm much, that means, I don't have much gold.) The current drop chances mean that I will never have all recipes, because most of them are so rare that they don't even end up on sale, and if they do, they go for 500k+, which I simply do not have.

Give me the means to satisfy my instant gratification monkey. Give me back the chance to eventually be able to say "I can make everything in this game".

Fix the furniture blueprint drop rates.

Disclaimer, since this does not seem to be clear: I do not want to farm gold and buy the recipes. I know I could. However, I am not a farm bot. Yesterday I have deleted my level 3 toon Loots-many-urns to create an Ashlander in her stead.
I am no longer looting.
I am no longer farming.

.

Almariel

I am feeling the same and also said this in several posts before... this desparately needs to be fixed

DarcyMardin

I also agree. Not being able to get the furnishing recipes and make my own furniture for the newer houses is very disheartening to a dedicated crafter.

Unlikely_Ghostbuster

I have to salute the amount of effort and the attention to detail this person has dedicated to crafting. I'm awestruck, jealous, and gratified to know somebody out there is getting it done. This is next-level 'completionist' crafting.

That's why reading the description of the arduous grinding/farming tedium and the pathetic payout upsets me. Three months of grinding 200 urns with four different characters on a daily basis and this player has only found SIX purple Vvardenfell furniture recipes -- YOU GOTTA BE KIDDING ME.

The effort-to-reward ratio in this game can be pretty bad, but what was described above is totally ridiculous.

It's my opinion that ESO overuses RNG to a disgusting degree. Epic furniture recipe drop-rates, especially, are woefully and painfully inadequate.

I understand the need to make things rare for the sake of instilling players with a sense of achievement when a rare item drops. However, drop-rates should never ever ever be nearly impossible. That's not fun. That's sadistic.

Does anyone else remember that terrible school yard game "keep-away," where the bigger/older kids taunt smaller/younger kids by holding something just outside of their reach? If not, maybe you'll remember those evil children who never shared their cereal with the Trix Rabbit.

Sometimes, no kidding, ESO feels like an unnecessarily over-complicated game of "keep-away."

Maybe make the next relaunch of the game more honest:

"The Elder Scrolls Online: Keep-Away with Extra Steps"

Or do something for the crafters to alleviate this tedious, unrewarding grind.

I'm impressed by the Addon this player has written, but it would be great if we could see that information through the client similarly to the way we see our motif progress through the lore library. It would also be great if there were some interesting and/or useful passives or skills that can be unlocked by players who are truly master crafters. As it is, there is no great incentive to invest time and effort into crafting (other than satisfying obsessive impulses).

code65536

It's clear that Housing was designed with the Crown Store in mind.

And it seems that ZOS forgets that many in ESO came from TES games where completionism is everything...

LadyAstrum

I read in an interview that there are many lovers of housing among ZOS devs. If so, they need to see the frustration of the players who also love housing and desire a fair shot at getting blueprints. Not so frequently that they lose value, but not so rarely that gamers become disenfranchised and leave the game because of it.

I've only been playing this game for a month, and I intend to stick around for a while, so as housing has become an interest of mine, I'd like the game to entice people, not send them running for another game.

manavortex

Three months of grinding 200 urns with four different characters on a daily basis and this player has only found SIX purple Vvardenfell furniture recipes -- YOU GOTTA BE KIDDING ME.

To be fair, the 200 urns are a total of all four characters. But, to quote myself from the other thread:

I've talked to a person who's unemployed due to health reasons and literally does nothing else than grinding urns for 12 hours a day while watching TV. They are a furnisher and have exactly twenty-two epic Morrowind recipes more than I. Twenty-two recipes in 149 days since release.

I don't see that investment/reward ratio as anywhere close to worthwhile.

Wraithscream

I have a large thread i posted about this issue a few weeks ago but here's kinda what I said:

39,000 urns now looted. Only 1 Purple Morrowind pattern.

I am running 7 characters 4-5 times per day looting urns.

I have accepted that they are just greedy and no longer want us to craft furniture.

Mix

I feel this problem could easily be fixed by removing the Global furnishing plans from the Vvardenfell and CWC loot tables, then every plan you find there will be from that zones furniture plans...that or vastly bias it towards the new ones. Right now it is awful.

CWC backpack/trunk/desk/etc farming

211 global green plan: 1 cwc green plan
37 global blue plans: 5 cwc blue plans
7 global purple plans: 0 cwc purple plans

This is a LOT of farming. Hours everyday of looping Brass Fortress for all these containers on multiple toons (so the containers reset nicely) and the reward is so little. I get a purple plan about every 3 days - if they were all CWC ones it would be great, that isn't an OP drop rate at all!

LadyNalcarya

I agree, purple dlc recipes are almost unobtainable unless youre willing to grind 24/7.
Of course, all those items are so conveniently available for purchase in crown store... But honestly, its not worth it. Buying a few things from crown store from time to time seems like a reasonable deal, but decorating the whole house with crown store items would cost hundreds of dollars, especially if you bought one of those crown-exclusive manors.
I understand that the game needs to be profitable, but housing stuff seems like a blatant cash grab.

CaffeinatedMayhem

code65536 wrote: »

It's clear that Housing was designed with the Crown Store in mind.

And it seems that ZOS forgets that many in ESO came from TES games where completionism is everything...

I am a recipe collector but it's not even the completionism that drives me... it's finding patterns so I can craft my own furniture! I'm a crafter, I like to make things, housing reviatlized the game for me. And ZOS is killing my love of this game by screwing crafters, YET AGAIN.

I used to make a lot my income through custom armor orders... no need, everyone is full 8 trait now! The only custom crafting I do now is Shacklebreaker, in rare motifs.
Oh sweet, we can buy purple furnishing recipes for 10 vouchers and make gold! NO.
Oh I can make furniture... the only people who spend the time/gold to get patterns want to make their own not buy pre-made.

ZOS is the only company I know that puts crafting as a major component in the game then kills it. Sorry I'm not a bro PvPer but there is more to the game... or was. /end jaded rant.

Mallow

I came back to ESO because of Homestead. It would be sadly ironic if that's also what makes me leave again.

SisterGoat

Pleeeease increase the drop rate or remove global recipes! This is killing me.

vovus69

man, I would recommend to grind raw mats with same persistency - you would be able to buy all your recipes for now. If you cannot defeat RNG on per person basis - horde the money and just buy it.

-vovus

manavortex

We can't - because those recipes aren't even for sale.
I looked four weeks for a crafter to make me some Telvanni Table, Organic Grand on EU. I haven't even seen the recipe for sale anywhere.

vovus69

https://eu.tamrieltradecentre.com/pc/Trade/SearchResult?ItemID=15929&TradeType=Sell&ItemNamePattern=Telvanni+Table,+Organic+Grand&ItemCategory1ID=&ItemCategory2ID=&ItemCategory3ID=&ItemTraitID=&ItemQualityID=&IsChampionPoint=false&LevelMin=&LevelMax=&MasterWritVoucherMin=&MasterWritVoucherMax=&AmountMin=&AmountMax=&PriceMin=&PriceMax=


I see four pages. It is just 15k cost. I recommend to check TTC all the time and when you see it appeared - go to that guild and buy it. Same as I am doing with aetheric dusts...

-vovus

manavortex

That is not the pattern, unfortunately, and I used around 30 tables alltogether. Buying those for 12k each would have ruined me thrice over.
Also, besides the point. We want the blueprints, not the workarounds.

karrie7

OP if had spent all these time farming in beginner areas like khenarthi roost with harvest map you would make 50-70k per hour.

NolaArch

karrie7 wrote: »

OP if had spent all these time farming in beginner areas like khenarthi roost with harvest map you would make 50-70k per hour.

OP doesn’t want money, though. OP wants patterns to drop at a reasonable rate, which is completely reasonable.

Also, I agree that the drop rate + globals is just abysmal.

LadyNalcarya

manavortex wrote: »

That is not the pattern, unfortunately, and I used around 30 tables alltogether. Buying those for 12k each would have ruined me thrice over.
Also, besides the point. We want the blueprints, not the workarounds.

The recipe would be even more expensive I'm afraid.
Theyre so rare that even if youre willing to spend gold, you mist be lucky to find one for sale.

TelvanniWizard

This RNG is a shame. But more shameful is realizing that it´s main cause is to sell more crowns.

ArcVelarian

To be honest, ZOS is only ever going to address our complaints if we post to General and pester them mercilessly on Reddit.

Wraithscream

ArcVelarian wrote: »

To be honest, ZOS is only ever going to address our complaints if we post to General and pester them mercilessly on Reddit.

This. I have made two threads posting about this and never heard a peep. I also have emailed every dev. Nothing. I mention it in every bug report I send. Nothing.

I have over 25 hours of farming urns. 25 Hours!
I have had 1 epic Morrowind pattern drop.

Hell in the recent Battlefront controversy, Vader was going to take 40 hours to unlock. Here I am farming for more than half that time for ONE minor recipe so I can decorate my house and some people have farmed longer than me and gotten none.

They don't care and it's all about money. The only way it will change is if this blows up and I don't know if it will. Too many people are getting so discouraged and quitting because ZOS has become so greedy.

Also I will say it again. In order to decorate a Morrowind House, with Morrowind furniture from the crown store, it would cost a MINIMUM of $250. And they expect us to do that? Insanity.

WhiteCoatSyndrome

I have to agree on the drop rates. I started Urning a few weeks ago and I got my first ever duplicate blue Morrowind recipe today. I had to check with one of my trade guilds for a price because my MM readout only had one sale listed in the last 75 (!) days. The prices they came back with were in the 30k+ range! That's insane for a blue recipe even at launch, never mind months afterwards!

On the flip side, I've gotten so many Velothi Cairissons that I've decided my (Argonian, ex-slave) bank alt has been stealing the ashes of Hlaalu ancestors by way of revenge for said enslavement. How much will Hlaalu pay to get their ancestors' remains back? Enough to buy a few Morrowind recipes?

Wraithscream

You must have not seen blue Morrowind recipe prices even a month ago. On Xbox the blues were consistently selling for 60k +. Some rare ones over 100k +. Only in the last month have prices dropped.... But prices have not dropped for the purple Morrowind recipes. Nearly all of them sell for over 400k. Some big pieces fetch 850k.

I'm on Xbox btw.

I see 8 different threads talking about this issue just in the first few pages of different forum categories.

How many more need to be started until they respond to us?
Right now this is the biggest issue driving me away from the game and it is such a easy fix. It's pathetic.

Scraelos

I have looted 2 purple Morrowind plans withour any "grind" activity.
Also bad drop rates - good opportunity for furniture crafters. It's worthless to be furniture crafter if everyone can craft purple furniture.
If you want to be a master furniture crafter then you should use your trade skills.

manavortex

If you want to be a master furniture crafter then you should use your trade skills.

You are not listening. The recipes are so rare that I could not even buy them if I wanted to. There is no supply for the demand.
I am a master motif crafter by using my trade skills. It is not working.

Vicarra

When Homestead originally launched, or just before, I understood from discussions on the forums that the intention was that if you wanted Nord-themed furniture recipes, you had to actually go to Skyrim to get them. Unfortunately, it seems that ZOS abandoned that idea, and you can literally get any of the base recipes from anywhere, with no real preference for the zone you're currently in.

This may be fine and arguable for the base-game content, but this does cause a problem when it comes to DLC packs and "Chapters". ZoS, if you want to tempt people who love housing to spend time in the zones you're selling, and therefore, have them fork out money to buy it from you, you MUST give them a reason to go there. When you skew the loot tables deliberately AWAY from the recipes unique to a zone to force people to buy the items on the crown store (and as the OP said, defeating the point of even crafting in the first place), you are actively removing the drive, or need, for the player to buy their access to that zone. What is the point, for a homesteader or crafter, in buying a DLC if they are not even able to farm for the recipes in the zone? I know that you, ZoS, want players to buy everything on the crown store, but quite frankly, and I've made this point before in another context...

IF YOU DON'T PROVIDE THE HOOK TO GET PEOPLE COLLECTING, THEY WON'T BUY OFF THE CROWN STORE TO FINISH THE COLLECTION.

You NEED to provide enough recipes, at a decent enough drop rate, that people who like to craft, can actually build up a decently sized collection to begin with - then they can think about buying the odd item here or there on the crown store to finish off a room. A rug that really ties the room together, y'know? If all you do is nerf the recipe drop rate because you think it will force more sales via crowns, you are deluded. If you, as a player, know that there is no hope for you to even get near to completing a collection via in-game means, you won't even bother at all. I'm getting really quite tired of being treated like an idiot. I see through the shallowly veiled attempts to hide the money-grabbing shenanigans, and I resent the fact that ZoS thinks I'm stupid enough to fall for it.

newtinmpls

code65536 wrote: »

It's clear that Housing was designed with the Crown Store in mind.

And it seems that ZOS forgets that many in ESO came from TES games where completionism is everything...

I do think that this was seriously under-estimated in the beginning, and that dying of armor/costumes and housing (at all) only came about because of the relentless enthusiasm that ES fans bring.

Vicarra wrote: »

If you, as a player, know that there is no hope for you to even get near to completing a collection via in-game means, you won't even bother at all.

intermittent reinforcement works wonders....but

A low enough pattern of reinforcement then triggers extinction behaviors

In plain English. .... people will stop playing.

Scraelos

manavortex wrote: »

If you want to be a master furniture crafter then you should use your trade skills.

You are not listening. The recipes are so rare that I could not even buy them if I wanted to. There is no supply for the demand.
I am a master motif crafter by using my trade skills. It is not working.

Can you write an addon, which collects all blueprints in inventory and stores them in addon save file at SavedVariables?
I can make some platform for blueprint sell/exchange, but I need a tool to collect such data from players.
I already made some furniture catalogue(efmp.tk) with item crafters list. Data is currently loaded by players (Aetherius Art guild players mostly) by uploading CraftStore save files.

WhiteCoatSyndrome

Wraithscream wrote: »

You must have not seen blue Morrowind recipe prices even a month ago. On Xbox the blues were consistently selling for 60k +. Some rare ones over 100k +. Only in the last month have prices dropped.... But prices have not dropped for the purple Morrowind recipes. Nearly all of them sell for over 400k. Some big pieces fetch 850k.

I'm on PC; and yes, that single sale 75 days ago was over 60k. I just didn't think that would still be close to accurate. Over two months of time should have been plenty of time for prices to crash to reasonable levels.