Innate Axiom and War Maiden

Lord_Etrigan

Hi guys,

Question.

Will Innate Axion and war maiden stack with spell damage

Innate gives 400 spell damage to class abilities and Maiden gives 400 spell damage to magic abilities. So if they do then it means that frag, mages wrath,haunting curse, Structured Entropy and soul assault should hit way harder

code65536

Entropy and Soul Assault are not class abilities. Wrath is lightning, not magic. But it would buff the hell out of frags and curse.

Lord_Etrigan

code65536 wrote: »

Entropy and Soul Assault are not class abilities. Wrath is lightning, not magic. But it would buff the hell out of frags and curse.

Hi thanks,

Wrath,frag,haunting is class (Innate) and soul, frag,haunting (Magic and class), entropy is magic (War Maiden)

code65536

My point is that only a small part of your toolkit is being buffed by both sets. Something like Julianos that buffs all abilities instead of a subset would be more optimal.

Lord_Etrigan

code65536 wrote: »

My point is that only a small part of your toolkit is being buffed by both sets. Something like Julianos that buffs all abilities instead of a subset would be more optimal.

Hi,
good point

my dps bar is: Entropy, wrath,frags,curse, rune cage and soul assault (both class and magica)
Running duel wield

Thats why I was wondering about the sets as all abilties on bar should be buffed by either one or both of the sets

Merlin13KAGL

Julianos / Hundings wins again...

The way most of these damage specific type sets work (channeled, cast time, class, weapon line, damage type), and by the time you take a look at the total number of skills directly affected, the average bonus will usually work out to be equal to, or sometimes less than the all-the-time/all-things bonuses provided from 5th piece Jules/Hundings.

So unless an specific set of skills makes up a larger than 8-10% (per slot) of your damage, you'll generally find the difference is minimal.

So short version: if you already have these sets, go for it. If not, the above will function as good, or better, in almost all but the most niche build cases.

Lord_Etrigan

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

Julianos / Hundings wins again...

The way most of these damage specific type sets work (channeled, cast time, class, weapon line, damage type), and by the time you take a look at the total number of skills directly affected, the average bonus will usually work out to be equal to, or sometimes less than the all-the-time/all-things bonuses provided from 5th piece Jules/Hundings.

So unless an specific set of skills makes up a larger than 8-10% (per slot) of your damage, you'll generally find the difference is minimal.

So short version: if you already have these sets, go for it. If not, the above will function as good, or better, in almost all but the most niche build cases.

Hi,
Thanks for the advice, I'll be experimenting tonight

Minno

Should be noted:
- innate gives you DMG and survivability through mag, Stam, crit chance, and SD/WD to class abilities.
- war maiden gives only mag based bonuses and s boost to magic DMG
- julianos only gives crit chance, 1 max mag and SD.

So while julianos will win in most scenarios (pve), innate gives you mixed stats for PvP survival and boosts your dmg if you use a class spamable/burst (DK, NB, Templar) and war maiden gives mixed stats for mag DMG builds.

It's really build dependant.

Xvorg

That combo is way better on a mageblade than a sorc

NBrookus

I would thoroughly test Innate on PTS before committing. It's bugged right now and not buffing all class skills.

brandonv516

Nice combo for Templars..

Oh can't wait to try.

Lord_Etrigan

Hi guys,
Thanks for all the input.

I have slotted the two sets last night and found the following.
Note: I run spell damage boon for extra damage, gear purple divines, all light except for chest being heavy and use witch mother

I found an increase of about 257 magic damage on curse as it went from 4979(Shackle only) to 5236 (with both).

However I found magic sustain did drop from 1600 to about 1200 by replacing shackle with innate. I then countered the sustain issue by changing the boon to magic regen and found an increase to 2200 magic regen but my spell damage drop from 2600 to 2200

This now opens new questions for me. What is more important....
Magic damage or spell damage? and how does one find the ballance?

I take my hat off for the theory build crafters out there as putting a build together sometime leave one with more questions than answers

NBrookus

@Lord_Etrigan Have you discovered http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildEditor yet? Paper builds are SO much cheaper.

Lord_Etrigan

NBrookus wrote: »

@Lord_Etrigan Have you discovered http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildEditor yet? Paper builds are SO much cheaper.

Hi,

Yes thank you, I been using it lately and it makes a hell off a difference.

was even able to see what damage I would put out if I went all gold. Will definitely use it more to try before I buy. Lol

Minno

Still need to test if Templars skills are shafted with this set. Had anything heard if the devs are going to fix it?

Kartalin

Minno wrote: »

Still need to test if Templars skills are shafted with this set. Had anything heard if the devs are going to fix it?

I think the issue, possibly for both war maiden and innate axiom, is that it only buffs the first tick of sweeps and radiant. This is a problem that's been going on a while and also part of the reason why magplar pve dps has fallen behind other classes. Really hoping it gets fixed soon

CavalryPK

Interesting post. can some on please explain from the magblade standpoint.

I got swallow soul, Merciless Resolve , cripple and soul harvest as the main dmg abilities.

Does War Maiden and Axiom add dmg to all of em.. since all of them are magic dmg and class abilities ?

casparian

CavalryPK wrote: »

Interesting post. can some on please explain from the magblade standpoint.

I got swallow soul, Merciless Resolve , cripple and soul harvest as the main dmg abilities.

Does War Maiden and Axiom add dmg to all of em.. since all of them are magic dmg and class abilities ?

Theoretically, yes. But Axiom is currently bugged and is not adding damage to numerous class morphs, including Merciless.

Minno

Kartalin wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

Still need to test if Templars skills are shafted with this set. Had anything heard if the devs are going to fix it?

I think the issue, possibly for both war maiden and innate axiom, is that it only buffs the first tick of sweeps and radiant. This is a problem that's been going on a while and also part of the reason why magplar pve dps has fallen behind other classes. Really hoping it gets fixed soon

Yea that's terrible. Does it buff dots? What about BoL?

Even though the rest of the channel doesn't buff up like the first tick, does it at least buff burning light? If so, I can still see use. But I agree it should buff the full channel.

WillhelmBlack

brandonv516 wrote: »

Nice combo for Templars..

Oh can't wait to try.

Same as War Maiden + Soulshine. You can't sustain it.

CavalryPK

casparian wrote: »

CavalryPK wrote: »

Interesting post. can some on please explain from the magblade standpoint.

I got swallow soul, Merciless Resolve , cripple and soul harvest as the main dmg abilities.

Does War Maiden and Axiom add dmg to all of em.. since all of them are magic dmg and class abilities ?

Theoretically, yes. But Axiom is currently bugged and is not adding damage to numerous class morphs, including Merciless.

I see. bummer. buuuuut regardless ... you cant really run both in pvp, you will run dry super quick...

Kartalin

Minno wrote: »

Kartalin wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

Still need to test if Templars skills are shafted with this set. Had anything heard if the devs are going to fix it?

I think the issue, possibly for both war maiden and innate axiom, is that it only buffs the first tick of sweeps and radiant. This is a problem that's been going on a while and also part of the reason why magplar pve dps has fallen behind other classes. Really hoping it gets fixed soon

Yea that's terrible. Does it buff dots? What about BoL?

Even though the rest of the channel doesn't buff up like the first tick, does it at least buff burning light? If so, I can still see use. But I agree it should buff the full channel.

Innate _should_ work fine on non-channeled abilities, so BoL should be buffed by it. I haven't tested it however. Since it doesn't buff assassin's will for nightblades I'd be hesistant in thinking it'd work for burning light either. It seems to have a problem with class-based procs.

Minno

Kartalin wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

Kartalin wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

Still need to test if Templars skills are shafted with this set. Had anything heard if the devs are going to fix it?

I think the issue, possibly for both war maiden and innate axiom, is that it only buffs the first tick of sweeps and radiant. This is a problem that's been going on a while and also part of the reason why magplar pve dps has fallen behind other classes. Really hoping it gets fixed soon

Yea that's terrible. Does it buff dots? What about BoL?

Even though the rest of the channel doesn't buff up like the first tick, does it at least buff burning light? If so, I can still see use. But I agree it should buff the full channel.

Innate _should_ work fine on non-channeled abilities, so BoL should be buffed by it. I haven't tested it however. Since it doesn't buff assassin's will for nightblades I'd be hesistant in thinking it'd work for burning light either. It seems to have a problem with class-based procs.

Yea I haven't had time to test it either. How is everyone testing it? Slotting a different item to break the 5pc set and checking tooltips?

Also if mercless style procs are not buffed, it might be doing the same thing as channeled attacks; checking for the first tick and then only giving it to that. So for proc abilities that means if there isn't a first tick then it's not giving the DMG, similar to "if and" statements?

Kartalin

Yeah, should just be a matter of crafting a 5 piece set to test it with and without the 5th piece. Just have to be careful no other passives are changed by removing the 5th piece. Ideal conditions would be no cp placed, no skill points applied except on the skills you're testing, no other skills on bar, no other gear worn besides innate, and no enchants on gear. Just tedious to do and costs money for the respec. Would be easier to test on the PTS perhaps.

Minno

Kartalin wrote: »

Yeah, should just be a matter of crafting a 5 piece set to test it with and without the 5th piece. Just have to be careful no other passives are changed by removing the 5th piece. Ideal conditions would be no cp placed, no skill points applied except on the skills you're testing, no other skills on bar, no other gear worn besides innate, and no enchants on gear. Just tedious to do and costs money for the respec. Would be easier to test on the PTS perhaps.

Thanks! Yea definitely a pts test for sure.

Though I already crafted my cp160 innate gear lol. Would be a great set, assuming they can fix some bugs.

Akinos

Innate doesn't work on the DK heal, I haven't tested it in with BoL yet though.

Minno

Akinos wrote: »

Innate doesn't work on the DK heal, I haven't tested it in with BoL yet though.

Tested on the morph that gives an initial heal I assume?

The way GDB sounds, it's based on missing health anyway, so wd/SD wouldn't matter.

Akinos

Minno wrote: »

Akinos wrote: »

Innate doesn't work on the DK heal, I haven't tested it in with BoL yet though.

Tested on the morph that gives an initial heal I assume?

The way GDB sounds, it's based on missing health anyway, so wd/SD wouldn't matter.

Just with the morph that magdk's use, coagulating blood. Didn't try the unmorphed or other morph.
Coagulating is based off max magicka and spell damage, as well as hp i think.

Minno

Akinos wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

Akinos wrote: »

Innate doesn't work on the DK heal, I haven't tested it in with BoL yet though.

Tested on the morph that gives an initial heal I assume?

The way GDB sounds, it's based on missing health anyway, so wd/SD wouldn't matter.

Just with the morph that magdk's use, coagulating blood. Didn't try the unmorphed or other morph.

I figured as much

idk

Own only helps class abilities and the other only helps abilities that do magicka damage (not element). When both are in play, like Sorc frags, yes it would stack. However, both are not good for most builds since most useful builds have a mix of skills.

CavalryPK

idk wrote: »

Own only helps class abilities and the other only helps abilities that do magicka damage (not element). When both are in play, like Sorc frags, yes it would stack. However, both are not good for most builds since most useful builds have a mix of skills.

With exception of destro / resto magblade. all of dmg abilities are class based and magic dmg. Swallow soul, impale. cripple, Harvest, Merciless resolve.