Werewolves need a taunt and ability to resurrect.

Slick_007

and how does a ww talk *** about someones mother when they cant speak?

idk

Tasear wrote: »

idk wrote: »

I agree WW should be able to rez and if they come out of form while rezing it shouldn't break off the rez.

However, I see no logical reason they should have a taunt. They're clearly not built for tanking but intended for dps. It wouldn't make sense to add a taunt for funnzies since they could not tank anything serious.

They can set enemies off balance and increase allies heavy attack damage. Not to mention extra restiances.

They could have pack leader morph do a taunt with pets or turn how into aoe taunt.

None of that suggests WW is built for tanking which was my point. It needs to actually make sense to make a change like this. It needs to make sense for Zos to consider it.

Narvuntien

Needs to have bonuses when not in werewolf form. Vampire has them when not fully vamped.

I think just getting free resistances at all times seems good.

Obviously giving them an AoE taunt would be interesting since being in WW form has a bunch of inherent disadvantages so people would just all become wolves for it. Probably make them excellent for dungeon running though (but not trials)

idk

Narvuntien wrote: »

Needs to have bonuses when not in werewolf form. Vampire has them when not fully vamped.

I think just getting free resistances at all times seems good.

Obviously giving them an AoE taunt would be interesting since being in WW form has a bunch of inherent disadvantages so people would just all become wolves for it. Probably make them excellent for dungeon running though (but not trials)

WW used to provide the stam regen bonus when not in form, but that would be the only passive that would still work. The poison weakness had a 100% uptime as well. Zos removed this. Probably because some players likely had issue with the 100% uptime of the extra damage they were taking.

Zos will never ever provide the WW with an AoE taunt. There is no question about that. They refuse to add an AoE taunt into the game because it is not needed. The game was not designed for it to be needed for any content in the game.

Vamps are designed very differently. They are always in form and have a significantly limited skill line compared to the WW. There really is little comparison other than both are the result of an infection.

paulsimonps

Group buffs/debuffs that werewolfs have:

Rousing Roar: Major Brutality, something every stamina DPS already have
Ferocious Roar: Off-Balance, only works after a feared target dies, so useless in most boss fights.
Claws of Anguish: Major Defile, very few places have healers, and even fewer bosses can heal, so almost useless.
Howl of Despair: Feeding Frenzy synergy, increasing light and heavy attack damage by 10% for 15 seconds. Good, IF synergies would work correctly.

They also lose all weapon passives and skills. No Major Fracture or Breach, higher block cost/bashing, slower when blocking, loss of mitigation. No class abilities: No DK Igneous, no Chains, no Talons, no Warden Gate or grip, no Group heals, no group damage shields, no group protective buffs, no warhorn. I mean I could go on but I won't. You gain almost nothing and lose A LOT.

Peekachu99

WW tanking would be awesome! (And Vamp, for that matter.)

Skullstachio

My Opinion, try using this build

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/351953/were-warden-build-update-1-3/pg1

(Just make sure you have some of Orzorga's Tripe Trifle Pockets, they can increase your max health by 5000 & increase your stamina recovery by 500 for 2 hours which allows for more stamina management with pursuit in the mix.)

Also, just one more thing about the build, I will be updating it a few days after the CWC (clockwork city) release on console. (Hint: aside from a few things, one key thing is that Dreugh King Slayer is being replaced with Briarheart.)

paulsimonps

Alpha-Lupi wrote: »

My Opinion, try using this build

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/351953/were-warden-build-update-1-3/pg1

(Just make sure you have some of Orzorga's Tripe Trifle Pockets, they can increase your max health by 5000 & increase your stamina recovery by 500 for 2 hours which allows for more stamina management with pursuit in the mix.)

Also, just one more thing about the build, I will be updating it a few days after the CWC (clockwork city) release on console. (Hint: aside from a few things, one key thing is that Dreugh King Slayer is being replaced with Briarheart.)

That build does not in anyway give them what they want, no Taunt, nor resurrection capability while in WW form.

Skullstachio

paulsimonps wrote: »

Alpha-Lupi wrote: »

My Opinion, try using this build

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/351953/were-warden-build-update-1-3/pg1

(Just make sure you have some of Orzorga's Tripe Trifle Pockets, they can increase your max health by 5000 & increase your stamina recovery by 500 for 2 hours which allows for more stamina management with pursuit in the mix.)

Also, just one more thing about the build, I will be updating it a few days after the CWC (clockwork city) release on console. (Hint: aside from a few things, one key thing is that Dreugh King Slayer is being replaced with Briarheart.)

That build does not in anyway give them what they want, no Taunt, nor resurrection capability while in WW form.

if set up right, werewolves do not need to taunt as their raw damage output as well as the added physical/spell resist allows them to withstand a lot of damage while also dishing it out (especially if claws of life is used against huge mobs of enemies.) players just have to find something that not only makes them powerful but also allows them to take a good amount of punishment in the process.

Being a werewolf means accepting the challenge of self-sustainability.

Also, resurrecting other players in wolf form, definitely a bad idea, & with good reason.

1. Possibility of a gap where a werewolf could resurrect another player & during that time, they could be killed by a smart player using abilities that use poison such as subterranean assault & other such abilities that utilise poison to take advantage of a werewolves 25% weakness to poison.
2. Werewolf form timer expiring mid resurrection & causing it to stop & potentially leave both players living & dead at a distinctive disadvantage.

Gotta think outside the box as well as in it.

Also, hasn't anyone ever read the tale of The Werewolf's Hide.

Some will tell you that our greatest strength is our hunger, or our numbers, or our rage, or our claws, or our fangs. These are fools. The gift of Hircine is not simply about weapons, but about defense.

To hunt in the great hunting grounds of our master, we must be impervious to pain, masters of our own bodies.

Many a werewolf hunter will seek your hide for this reason. They will try to wear it, or else burn it. Either way, it is your greatest prize and you should take care not to let it fall to filth and disrepair.

A wolf's coat is the marker of his status. It bears his scars and protects his body against harm. Treat it as a nobleman treats his finery, for you are a servant of Hircine.

Too often have I encountered feral wolves with mangy coats. You are not wild dogs! You are not senseless wolves with no choice but to wander the woods as animals! You are kings among hunters!

When you are beset by enemies, when the mob comes for you, and you transform into your true self to face sword and sickle, pitchfork and pike, you will thank me. Your coat will gleam and terrify, and no blow will harm you.

The story above is a clear cut indication that, with the right weapons, the right Armor, the right set's, etc. you will all truly be something that is deadly to any & possibly all creatures & players alike and also be extraordinarily hard to defeat too.

paulsimonps

Alpha-Lupi wrote: »

paulsimonps wrote: »

Alpha-Lupi wrote: »

My Opinion, try using this build

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/351953/were-warden-build-update-1-3/pg1

(Just make sure you have some of Orzorga's Tripe Trifle Pockets, they can increase your max health by 5000 & increase your stamina recovery by 500 for 2 hours which allows for more stamina management with pursuit in the mix.)

Also, just one more thing about the build, I will be updating it a few days after the CWC (clockwork city) release on console. (Hint: aside from a few things, one key thing is that Dreugh King Slayer is being replaced with Briarheart.)

That build does not in anyway give them what they want, no Taunt, nor resurrection capability while in WW form.

if set up right, werewolves do not need to taunt as their raw damage output as well as the added physical/spell resist allows them to withstand a lot of damage while also dishing it out (especially if claws of life is used against huge mobs of enemies.) players just have to find something that not only makes them powerful but also allows them to take a good amount of punishment in the process.

Being a werewolf means accepting the challenge of self-sustainability.

Also, resurrecting other players in wolf form, definitely a bad idea, & with good reason.

1. Possibility of a gap where a werewolf could resurrect another player & during that time, they could be killed by a smart player using abilities that use poison such as subterranean assault & other such abilities that utilise poison to take advantage of a werewolves 25% weakness to poison.
2. Werewolf form timer expiring mid resurrection & causing it to stop & potentially leave both players living & dead at a distinctive disadvantage.

Gotta think outside the box as well as in it.

Also, hasn't anyone ever read the tale of The Werewolf's Hide.

Some will tell you that our greatest strength is our hunger, or our numbers, or our rage, or our claws, or our fangs. These are fools. The gift of Hircine is not simply about weapons, but about defense.

To hunt in the great hunting grounds of our master, we must be impervious to pain, masters of our own bodies.

Many a werewolf hunter will seek your hide for this reason. They will try to wear it, or else burn it. Either way, it is your greatest prize and you should take care not to let it fall to filth and disrepair.

A wolf's coat is the marker of his status. It bears his scars and protects his body against harm. Treat it as a nobleman treats his finery, for you are a servant of Hircine.

Too often have I encountered feral wolves with mangy coats. You are not wild dogs! You are not senseless wolves with no choice but to wander the woods as animals! You are kings among hunters!

When you are beset by enemies, when the mob comes for you, and you transform into your true self to face sword and sickle, pitchfork and pike, you will thank me. Your coat will gleam and terrify, and no blow will harm you.

The story above is a clear cut indication that, with the right weapons, the right Armor, the right set's, etc. you will all truly be something that is deadly to any & possibly all creatures & players alike and also be extraordinarily hard to defeat too.

Ummmm that is all well and good for solo play, BUT what is being discussed here is TAUNTING, HOLDING AGRO of bosses and mobs. If you do not have a TAUNT, you can not TANK. Which is what people are asking about. Being self sustaining and dealing and taking lots of damage does NOT make you a tank, it just makes you a solo player or a PvPer.

A tanks job is to make sure others do not get agro or get attacked while coordinating and positioning the enemies and the group. Werewolfs have nothing to do that.

idk

Paul is correct on all accounts from WW is not build for tanking (as I said earlier) and his follow ups as the post just before this one.

It does not make sense to add a taunt to the WW as this thread is just a want to have (concerning the taunt) without any solid justification.

The rez thing I can understand, however, they may lose form while rezing and that is just life if their time in form is about to expire.

Strider__Roshin

idk wrote: »

Paul is correct on all accounts from WW is not build for tanking (as I said earlier) and his follow ups as the post just before this one.

It does not make sense to add a taunt to the WW as this thread is just a want to have (concerning the taunt) without any solid justification.

The rez thing I can understand, however, they may lose form while rezing and that is just life if their time in form is about to expire.

Being a Werewolf is for RPing, and for fun factor. Other than that there's no reason to be one. You're only handicapping yourself by transforming into one.

paulsimonps

Daus wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Paul is correct on all accounts from WW is not build for tanking (as I said earlier) and his follow ups as the post just before this one.

It does not make sense to add a taunt to the WW as this thread is just a want to have (concerning the taunt) without any solid justification.

The rez thing I can understand, however, they may lose form while rezing and that is just life if their time in form is about to expire.

Being a Werewolf is for RPing, and for fun factor. Other than that there's no reason to be one. You're only handicapping yourself by transforming into one.

They are actually very good in PvP if you build right, have seen several of them rek people pretty hard. They can also be good in solo play, seen some nice Flawless vMSA from WWs. But they are bad in group PvE, and they are not Tanks.

Belegnole

Daus wrote: »

Being a Werewolf is for RPing, and for fun factor. Other than that there's no reason to be one. You're only handicapping yourself by transforming into one.

I would consider that statement to be proof that needs some attention. Anything in the game that is not viable, is or was a waste of development resources.

I and many others agree that many other choices are currently more powerful and "better" than werewolf. Which is why we would like to see it improved instead of ignored.

Strider__Roshin

Belegnole wrote: »

Daus wrote: »

Being a Werewolf is for RPing, and for fun factor. Other than that there's no reason to be one. You're only handicapping yourself by transforming into one.

I would consider that statement to be proof that needs some attention. Anything in the game that is not viable, is or was a waste of development resources.

I and many others agree that many other choices are currently more powerful and "better" than werewolf. Which is why we would like to see it improved instead of ignored.

How to make them good? Simple. Greatly reduced the cost of their abilities, and make their heal scale off of max stam. If the heal is too powerful at that point then nerf it, but right now it's useless as a heal.

paulsimonps

Daus wrote: »

Belegnole wrote: »

Daus wrote: »

Being a Werewolf is for RPing, and for fun factor. Other than that there's no reason to be one. You're only handicapping yourself by transforming into one.

I would consider that statement to be proof that needs some attention. Anything in the game that is not viable, is or was a waste of development resources.

I and many others agree that many other choices are currently more powerful and "better" than werewolf. Which is why we would like to see it improved instead of ignored.

How to make them good? Simple. Greatly reduced the cost of their abilities, and make their heal scale off of max stam. If the heal is too powerful at that point then nerf it, but right now it's useless as a heal.

The biggest thing they are lacking is group play. Their one good group buff is hidden behind a synergy, and until we see exactly how well the changes they are gonna make to synergies are then its not gonna be good. I mean they are stuck with only 5 abilities and no ultimate, change it so that can compete with 10 abilities and 2 ultimates will be hard. As well they have no support potential at all other than said synergy. Something needs to be changed.

Chrlynsch

paulsimonps wrote: »

Daus wrote: »

Belegnole wrote: »

Daus wrote: »

Being a Werewolf is for RPing, and for fun factor. Other than that there's no reason to be one. You're only handicapping yourself by transforming into one.

I would consider that statement to be proof that needs some attention. Anything in the game that is not viable, is or was a waste of development resources.

I and many others agree that many other choices are currently more powerful and "better" than werewolf. Which is why we would like to see it improved instead of ignored.

How to make them good? Simple. Greatly reduced the cost of their abilities, and make their heal scale off of max stam. If the heal is too powerful at that point then nerf it, but right now it's useless as a heal.

The biggest thing they are lacking is group play. Their one good group buff is hidden behind a synergy, and until we see exactly how well the changes they are gonna make to synergies are then its not gonna be good. I mean they are stuck with only 5 abilities and no ultimate, change it so that can compete with 10 abilities and 2 ultimates will be hard. As well they have no support potential at all other than said synergy. Something needs to be changed.

This right here is the honest truth. ^^

From a 1v1 PVP standpoint the werewolf is pretty competitive when built and geared correctly. But that is with a build that will under perform in human state.

Let's lay down some facts.

- Werewolf has increased speed, but no way to remove snares. They also were hit with a speed cap, meaning their top land speed was nerfed
- They have no external healing components
- Their heal scales off of max magicka and spell damage
- Their primary spamable dps, is reflectable and dodgible
- They can not resurrect allies
- They can not sneak
- They loose more then half of their passives, and half the passives that they gain are about extending their time in form.
- They can only activate the devour and feeding frenzy synergies, neither of which activate the resource return from undaunted passive



Here is my suggestion for werewolf:

1: Call of the Pack 25% per up from 20% (it worked like this for the last year and a half, seriously, it broke nothing except allowing groups of werewolves to play and hunt together)
2: Allow Werewolves to gain Ultimate while in form
3: Werewolves get a Ressurect (chest compression animation or werewolf rubs paws together rapidly for a defibrillator)
4: Bleed goes through shield like other bleeds in game.
5: Heavy attacks apply a heavy bleed
6: Make tormentor work in form
7: Werewolf heal scales from weapon damage and stamina

Chrlynsch

Slick_007 wrote: »

and how does a ww talk *** about someones mother when they cant speak?

Guessing a werewolf has never taken a leak on your leg.

Skullstachio

Chrlynsch wrote: »

paulsimonps wrote: »

Daus wrote: »

Belegnole wrote: »

Daus wrote: »

Being a Werewolf is for RPing, and for fun factor. Other than that there's no reason to be one. You're only handicapping yourself by transforming into one.

I would consider that statement to be proof that needs some attention. Anything in the game that is not viable, is or was a waste of development resources.

I and many others agree that many other choices are currently more powerful and "better" than werewolf. Which is why we would like to see it improved instead of ignored.

How to make them good? Simple. Greatly reduced the cost of their abilities, and make their heal scale off of max stam. If the heal is too powerful at that point then nerf it, but right now it's useless as a heal.

The biggest thing they are lacking is group play. Their one good group buff is hidden behind a synergy, and until we see exactly how well the changes they are gonna make to synergies are then its not gonna be good. I mean they are stuck with only 5 abilities and no ultimate, change it so that can compete with 10 abilities and 2 ultimates will be hard. As well they have no support potential at all other than said synergy. Something needs to be changed.

This right here is the honest truth. ^^

From a 1v1 PVP standpoint the werewolf is pretty competitive when built and geared correctly. But that is with a build that will under perform in human state.

Let's lay down some facts.

- Werewolf has increased speed, but no way to remove snares. They also were hit with a speed cap, meaning their top land speed was nerfed
- They have no external healing components
- Their heal scales off of max magicka and spell damage
- Their primary spamable dps, is reflectable and dodgible
- They can not resurrect allies
- They can not sneak
- They loose more then half of their passives, and half the passives that they gain are about extending their time in form.
- They can only activate the devour and feeding frenzy synergies, neither of which activate the resource return from undaunted passive



Here is my suggestion for werewolf:

1: Call of the Pack 25% per up from 20% (it worked like this for the last year and a half, seriously, it broke nothing except allowing groups of werewolves to play and hunt together)
2: Allow Werewolves to gain Ultimate while in form
3: Werewolves get a Ressurect (chest compression animation or werewolf rubs paws together rapidly for a defibrillator)
4: Bleed goes through shield like other bleeds in game.
5: Heavy attacks apply a heavy bleed
6: Make tormentor work in form
7: Werewolf heal scales from weapon damage and stamina

- Werewolf has increased speed, but no way to remove snares. They also were hit with a speed cap, meaning their top land speed was nerfed.

That is not entirely true, while you may not be able to remove snares, you can however, reduce the effectiveness of snares with things such as the wardens Icy Aura Passive & Armor sets such as barkskin.also, you do get an increase to max stamina.

- They have no external healing components.

If you have an Armor set that does healing for you such as vampires kiss or even a monster set such as Engine Guardian then it may serve as part of an external healing asset, Briarheart is a good option as it can Heal a little on each critical hit while the briarheart effect is active. (Landing a critical hit has a small chance to increase your weapon damage by a good amount for 10 seconds & while it is active, critical hits heal for a small amount, this can only occur once every 15 seconds.) A potent combination when paired with a werewolves Claws of Life.

- Their heal scales off of max magicka and spell damage.

That is why you need the Pelinals Aptitude Set in Medium, because the more weapon damage you can get your "paws" on, the more spell damage you will have as Pelinals Aptitude makes both weapon & spell damage equal to the highest of the two values, I know because the way I set up my werewarden (still working on getting briarheart jewellery) I can heal about over 10K worth of health with but a push of a button, plus if it is Hircines Rage you use, it will increase your weapon damage which, in turn, will increase the spell damage & improve the effectiveness of your healing & your abilities. (That & it will trigger the wardens maturation passive as well.)

- Their primary spamable dps, is reflectable and dodgible.

I have no answer for that one but I can say it depends on the Player or NPC you face, most NPC's are predictable if you know how they fight, but when it comes down to PVP, Players are always going to be Unpredictable & likewise, it will always be a different fight each time.

- They can not resurrect allies.

With good reason, reviving other players in wolf form would wear down the werewolf timer, resulting in a shorter usage of powerful lycanthropic abilities, not to mention the time you go to revive somebody, it leaves a gap of vulnerability which could effectively spell your doom.]

- They can not sneak.

I'll leave that one unchecked, but otherwise most of the time, a werewolf does not need to sneak.

- They loose more then half of their passives, and half the passives that they gain are about extending their time in form.

we cannot truly know which passives are active & which ones are not so in a way, we just have to roll with what we have, because do remember some passives don't always show but they do work, Subtly. We just can't see it.

- They can only activate the devour and feeding frenzy synergies, neither of which activate the resource return from undaunted passive.

This one I can Agree on, Most synergies don't even work, especially the one where you try to break free from the Songbirds torrential attack in Vvardenfell & you still remain stuck even though you push the synergy button to escape & it results in taking damage every time you use the button to break free from it, ultimately bringing demise. If anything, Werewolves should be allowed to activate any & all synergies possible. But the undaunted passive with the resource returns, I think it still works but only with the usable werewolf synergy bonuses. (but it may be something for Zenimax to look into & potentially fix in the long run.)

paulsimonps

Alpha-Lupi wrote: »

Chrlynsch wrote: »

paulsimonps wrote: »

Daus wrote: »

Belegnole wrote: »

Daus wrote: »

Being a Werewolf is for RPing, and for fun factor. Other than that there's no reason to be one. You're only handicapping yourself by transforming into one.

I would consider that statement to be proof that needs some attention. Anything in the game that is not viable, is or was a waste of development resources.

I and many others agree that many other choices are currently more powerful and "better" than werewolf. Which is why we would like to see it improved instead of ignored.

How to make them good? Simple. Greatly reduced the cost of their abilities, and make their heal scale off of max stam. If the heal is too powerful at that point then nerf it, but right now it's useless as a heal.

The biggest thing they are lacking is group play. Their one good group buff is hidden behind a synergy, and until we see exactly how well the changes they are gonna make to synergies are then its not gonna be good. I mean they are stuck with only 5 abilities and no ultimate, change it so that can compete with 10 abilities and 2 ultimates will be hard. As well they have no support potential at all other than said synergy. Something needs to be changed.

This right here is the honest truth. ^^

From a 1v1 PVP standpoint the werewolf is pretty competitive when built and geared correctly. But that is with a build that will under perform in human state.

Let's lay down some facts.

- Werewolf has increased speed, but no way to remove snares. They also were hit with a speed cap, meaning their top land speed was nerfed
- They have no external healing components
- Their heal scales off of max magicka and spell damage
- Their primary spamable dps, is reflectable and dodgible
- They can not resurrect allies
- They can not sneak
- They loose more then half of their passives, and half the passives that they gain are about extending their time in form.
- They can only activate the devour and feeding frenzy synergies, neither of which activate the resource return from undaunted passive



Here is my suggestion for werewolf:

1: Call of the Pack 25% per up from 20% (it worked like this for the last year and a half, seriously, it broke nothing except allowing groups of werewolves to play and hunt together)
2: Allow Werewolves to gain Ultimate while in form
3: Werewolves get a Ressurect (chest compression animation or werewolf rubs paws together rapidly for a defibrillator)
4: Bleed goes through shield like other bleeds in game.
5: Heavy attacks apply a heavy bleed
6: Make tormentor work in form
7: Werewolf heal scales from weapon damage and stamina

- Werewolf has increased speed, but no way to remove snares. They also were hit with a speed cap, meaning their top land speed was nerfed.

That is not entirely true, while you may not be able to remove snares, you can however, reduce the effectiveness of snares with things such as the wardens Icy Aura Passive & Armor sets such as barkskin.also, you do get an increase to max stamina.

- They have no external healing components.

If you have an Armor set that does healing for you such as vampires kiss or even a monster set such as Engine Guardian then it may serve as part of an external healing asset, Briarheart is a good option as it can Heal a little on each critical hit while the briarheart effect is active. (Landing a critical hit has a small chance to increase your weapon damage by a good amount for 10 seconds & while it is active, critical hits heal for a small amount, this can only occur once every 15 seconds.) A potent combination when paired with a werewolves Claws of Life.

- Their heal scales off of max magicka and spell damage.

That is why you need the Pelinals Aptitude Set in Medium, because the more weapon damage you can get your "paws" on, the more spell damage you will have as Pelinals Aptitude makes both weapon & spell damage equal to the highest of the two values, I know because the way I set up my werewarden (still working on getting briarheart jewellery) I can heal about over 10K worth of health with but a push of a button, plus if it is Hircines Rage you use, it will increase your weapon damage which, in turn, will increase the spell damage & improve the effectiveness of your healing & your abilities. (That & it will trigger the wardens maturation passive as well.)

- Their primary spamable dps, is reflectable and dodgible.

I have no answer for that one but I can say it depends on the Player or NPC you face, most NPC's are predictable if you know how they fight, but when it comes down to PVP, Players are always going to be Unpredictable & likewise, it will always be a different fight each time.

- They can not resurrect allies.

With good reason, reviving other players in wolf form would wear down the werewolf timer, resulting in a shorter usage of powerful lycanthropic abilities, not to mention the time you go to revive somebody, it leaves a gap of vulnerability which could effectively spell your doom.]

- They can not sneak.

I'll leave that one unchecked, but otherwise most of the time, a werewolf does not need to sneak.

- They loose more then half of their passives, and half the passives that they gain are about extending their time in form.

we cannot truly know which passives are active & which ones are not so in a way, we just have to roll with what we have, because do remember some passives don't always show but they do work, Subtly. We just can't see it.

- They can only activate the devour and feeding frenzy synergies, neither of which activate the resource return from undaunted passive.

This one I can Agree on, Most synergies don't even work, especially the one where you try to break free from the Songbirds torrential attack in Vvardenfell & you still remain stuck even though you push the synergy button to escape & it results in taking damage every time you use the button to break free from it, ultimately bringing demise. If anything, Werewolves should be allowed to activate any & all synergies possible. But the undaunted passive with the resource returns, I think it still works but only with the usable werewolf synergy bonuses. (but it may be something for Zenimax to look into & potentially fix in the long run.)

Your answer to snare, healing and damage scaling was to basically use certain sets. This is an extremely limiting way of thinking, no flexibility no variety. Werewolf's needs to be better than that, sets variety should be more than that, the problem that the Werewolf's have can't be and should not be fixed by using specific sets.

And when it comes to the passives..... we do know, we very much so know what we lose and what we don't lose, and what we might not know personally is easily testable. You can test and account for variables and figure out what works and what does not work. For example, you lose all of the weapon passives, no matter what weapon you are using. And you obviously lose passives that require the slotting or activation of class abilities. Just cause you don't know, doesn't mean others don't or that you or others can't find out by testing.

And I mean Werewolf's are big and loud sure, but we also know that they are hunters, like real wolfs. They hunt in packs, and use tactics to lure their enemies, they scare them and make them fall for their traps and then they sneak and leap from cover. Having the ability to sneak for example in PvP and then Leap unto an unsuspecting target is right in line with Werewolf lore.

The ability to resurrect allies should also be a thing, some might not want to use it cause it might take them out of WW form, but that should be an option left for each player to decide whether to use or not.

Chrlynsch

Alpha-Lupi wrote: »

Chrlynsch wrote: »

paulsimonps wrote: »

Daus wrote: »

Belegnole wrote: »

Daus wrote: »

Being a Werewolf is for RPing, and for fun factor. Other than that there's no reason to be one. You're only handicapping yourself by transforming into one.

I would consider that statement to be proof that needs some attention. Anything in the game that is not viable, is or was a waste of development resources.

I and many others agree that many other choices are currently more powerful and "better" than werewolf. Which is why we would like to see it improved instead of ignored.

How to make them good? Simple. Greatly reduced the cost of their abilities, and make their heal scale off of max stam. If the heal is too powerful at that point then nerf it, but right now it's useless as a heal.

The biggest thing they are lacking is group play. Their one good group buff is hidden behind a synergy, and until we see exactly how well the changes they are gonna make to synergies are then its not gonna be good. I mean they are stuck with only 5 abilities and no ultimate, change it so that can compete with 10 abilities and 2 ultimates will be hard. As well they have no support potential at all other than said synergy. Something needs to be changed.

This right here is the honest truth. ^^

From a 1v1 PVP standpoint the werewolf is pretty competitive when built and geared correctly. But that is with a build that will under perform in human state.

Let's lay down some facts.

- Werewolf has increased speed, but no way to remove snares. They also were hit with a speed cap, meaning their top land speed was nerfed
- They have no external healing components
- Their heal scales off of max magicka and spell damage
- Their primary spamable dps, is reflectable and dodgible
- They can not resurrect allies
- They can not sneak
- They loose more then half of their passives, and half the passives that they gain are about extending their time in form.
- They can only activate the devour and feeding frenzy synergies, neither of which activate the resource return from undaunted passive



Here is my suggestion for werewolf:

1: Call of the Pack 25% per up from 20% (it worked like this for the last year and a half, seriously, it broke nothing except allowing groups of werewolves to play and hunt together)
2: Allow Werewolves to gain Ultimate while in form
3: Werewolves get a Ressurect (chest compression animation or werewolf rubs paws together rapidly for a defibrillator)
4: Bleed goes through shield like other bleeds in game.
5: Heavy attacks apply a heavy bleed
6: Make tormentor work in form
7: Werewolf heal scales from weapon damage and stamina

- Werewolf has increased speed, but no way to remove snares. They also were hit with a speed cap, meaning their top land speed was nerfed.

That is not entirely true, while you may not be able to remove snares, you can however, reduce the effectiveness of snares with things such as the wardens Icy Aura Passive & Armor sets such as barkskin.also, you do get an increase to max stamina.

- They have no external healing components.

If you have an Armor set that does healing for you such as vampires kiss or even a monster set such as Engine Guardian then it may serve as part of an external healing asset, Briarheart is a good option as it can Heal a little on each critical hit while the briarheart effect is active. (Landing a critical hit has a small chance to increase your weapon damage by a good amount for 10 seconds & while it is active, critical hits heal for a small amount, this can only occur once every 15 seconds.) A potent combination when paired with a werewolves Claws of Life.

- Their heal scales off of max magicka and spell damage.

That is why you need the Pelinals Aptitude Set in Medium, because the more weapon damage you can get your "paws" on, the more spell damage you will have as Pelinals Aptitude makes both weapon & spell damage equal to the highest of the two values, I know because the way I set up my werewarden (still working on getting briarheart jewellery) I can heal about over 10K worth of health with but a push of a button, plus if it is Hircines Rage you use, it will increase your weapon damage which, in turn, will increase the spell damage & improve the effectiveness of your healing & your abilities. (That & it will trigger the wardens maturation passive as well.)

- Their primary spamable dps, is reflectable and dodgible.

I have no answer for that one but I can say it depends on the Player or NPC you face, most NPC's are predictable if you know how they fight, but when it comes down to PVP, Players are always going to be Unpredictable & likewise, it will always be a different fight each time.

- They can not resurrect allies.

With good reason, reviving other players in wolf form would wear down the werewolf timer, resulting in a shorter usage of powerful lycanthropic abilities, not to mention the time you go to revive somebody, it leaves a gap of vulnerability which could effectively spell your doom.]

- They can not sneak.

I'll leave that one unchecked, but otherwise most of the time, a werewolf does not need to sneak.

- They loose more then half of their passives, and half the passives that they gain are about extending their time in form.

we cannot truly know which passives are active & which ones are not so in a way, we just have to roll with what we have, because do remember some passives don't always show but they do work, Subtly. We just can't see it.

- They can only activate the devour and feeding frenzy synergies, neither of which activate the resource return from undaunted passive.

This one I can Agree on, Most synergies don't even work, especially the one where you try to break free from the Songbirds torrential attack in Vvardenfell & you still remain stuck even though you push the synergy button to escape & it results in taking damage every time you use the button to break free from it, ultimately bringing demise. If anything, Werewolves should be allowed to activate any & all synergies possible. But the undaunted passive with the resource returns, I think it still works but only with the usable werewolf synergy bonuses. (but it may be something for Zenimax to look into & potentially fix in the long run.)

Saying gearing your wolf differently to fix a design issue is ridiculous. There are only so many bandages that can be applied to a broken component to the game. Leaving you with a workable werewolf and trash while not in form.

I am on PC and can tell you exactly what passive of each class, Weapon, world and alliance skill line we do loose. It's not some sort of unknown mystery, all of which I have tested extensively I have put in the work.

You realize wearing heavy armor Pelinal's going to give you more heals then wearing medium armor Pelinal's right?

External healing means healing others.

I'm sure all the other allies love me for when I nibble on them and run away.

The undaunted passive does not work for resource return, I can 100% say it does not... I have tested and reported it many times over the last year and a half.

Chrlynsch

paulsimonps wrote: »

Alpha-Lupi wrote: »

Chrlynsch wrote: »

paulsimonps wrote: »

Daus wrote: »

Belegnole wrote: »

Daus wrote: »

Being a Werewolf is for RPing, and for fun factor. Other than that there's no reason to be one. You're only handicapping yourself by transforming into one.

I would consider that statement to be proof that needs some attention. Anything in the game that is not viable, is or was a waste of development resources.

I and many others agree that many other choices are currently more powerful and "better" than werewolf. Which is why we would like to see it improved instead of ignored.

How to make them good? Simple. Greatly reduced the cost of their abilities, and make their heal scale off of max stam. If the heal is too powerful at that point then nerf it, but right now it's useless as a heal.

The biggest thing they are lacking is group play. Their one good group buff is hidden behind a synergy, and until we see exactly how well the changes they are gonna make to synergies are then its not gonna be good. I mean they are stuck with only 5 abilities and no ultimate, change it so that can compete with 10 abilities and 2 ultimates will be hard. As well they have no support potential at all other than said synergy. Something needs to be changed.

This right here is the honest truth. ^^

From a 1v1 PVP standpoint the werewolf is pretty competitive when built and geared correctly. But that is with a build that will under perform in human state.

Let's lay down some facts.

- Werewolf has increased speed, but no way to remove snares. They also were hit with a speed cap, meaning their top land speed was nerfed
- They have no external healing components
- Their heal scales off of max magicka and spell damage
- Their primary spamable dps, is reflectable and dodgible
- They can not resurrect allies
- They can not sneak
- They loose more then half of their passives, and half the passives that they gain are about extending their time in form.
- They can only activate the devour and feeding frenzy synergies, neither of which activate the resource return from undaunted passive



Here is my suggestion for werewolf:

1: Call of the Pack 25% per up from 20% (it worked like this for the last year and a half, seriously, it broke nothing except allowing groups of werewolves to play and hunt together)
2: Allow Werewolves to gain Ultimate while in form
3: Werewolves get a Ressurect (chest compression animation or werewolf rubs paws together rapidly for a defibrillator)
4: Bleed goes through shield like other bleeds in game.
5: Heavy attacks apply a heavy bleed
6: Make tormentor work in form
7: Werewolf heal scales from weapon damage and stamina

- Werewolf has increased speed, but no way to remove snares. They also were hit with a speed cap, meaning their top land speed was nerfed.

That is not entirely true, while you may not be able to remove snares, you can however, reduce the effectiveness of snares with things such as the wardens Icy Aura Passive & Armor sets such as barkskin.also, you do get an increase to max stamina.

- They have no external healing components.

If you have an Armor set that does healing for you such as vampires kiss or even a monster set such as Engine Guardian then it may serve as part of an external healing asset, Briarheart is a good option as it can Heal a little on each critical hit while the briarheart effect is active. (Landing a critical hit has a small chance to increase your weapon damage by a good amount for 10 seconds & while it is active, critical hits heal for a small amount, this can only occur once every 15 seconds.) A potent combination when paired with a werewolves Claws of Life.

- Their heal scales off of max magicka and spell damage.

That is why you need the Pelinals Aptitude Set in Medium, because the more weapon damage you can get your "paws" on, the more spell damage you will have as Pelinals Aptitude makes both weapon & spell damage equal to the highest of the two values, I know because the way I set up my werewarden (still working on getting briarheart jewellery) I can heal about over 10K worth of health with but a push of a button, plus if it is Hircines Rage you use, it will increase your weapon damage which, in turn, will increase the spell damage & improve the effectiveness of your healing & your abilities. (That & it will trigger the wardens maturation passive as well.)

- Their primary spamable dps, is reflectable and dodgible.

I have no answer for that one but I can say it depends on the Player or NPC you face, most NPC's are predictable if you know how they fight, but when it comes down to PVP, Players are always going to be Unpredictable & likewise, it will always be a different fight each time.

- They can not resurrect allies.

With good reason, reviving other players in wolf form would wear down the werewolf timer, resulting in a shorter usage of powerful lycanthropic abilities, not to mention the time you go to revive somebody, it leaves a gap of vulnerability which could effectively spell your doom.]

- They can not sneak.

I'll leave that one unchecked, but otherwise most of the time, a werewolf does not need to sneak.

- They loose more then half of their passives, and half the passives that they gain are about extending their time in form.

we cannot truly know which passives are active & which ones are not so in a way, we just have to roll with what we have, because do remember some passives don't always show but they do work, Subtly. We just can't see it.

- They can only activate the devour and feeding frenzy synergies, neither of which activate the resource return from undaunted passive.

This one I can Agree on, Most synergies don't even work, especially the one where you try to break free from the Songbirds torrential attack in Vvardenfell & you still remain stuck even though you push the synergy button to escape & it results in taking damage every time you use the button to break free from it, ultimately bringing demise. If anything, Werewolves should be allowed to activate any & all synergies possible. But the undaunted passive with the resource returns, I think it still works but only with the usable werewolf synergy bonuses. (but it may be something for Zenimax to look into & potentially fix in the long run.)

Your answer to snare, healing and damage scaling was to basically use certain sets. This is an extremely limiting way of thinking, no flexibility no variety. Werewolf's needs to be better than that, sets variety should be more than that, the problem that the Werewolf's have can't be and should not be fixed by using specific sets.

And when it comes to the passives..... we do know, we very much so know what we lose and what we don't lose, and what we might not know personally is easily testable. You can test and account for variables and figure out what works and what does not work. For example, you lose all of the weapon passives, no matter what weapon you are using. And you obviously lose passives that require the slotting or activation of class abilities. Just cause you don't know, doesn't mean others don't or that you or others can't find out by testing.

And I mean Werewolf's are big and loud sure, but we also know that they are hunters, like real wolfs. They hunt in packs, and use tactics to lure their enemies, they scare them and make them fall for their traps and then they sneak and leap from cover. Having the ability to sneak for example in PvP and then Leap unto an unsuspecting target is right in line with Werewolf lore.

The ability to resurrect allies should also be a thing, some might not want to use it cause it might take them out of WW form, but that should be an option left for each player to decide whether to use or not.

Thank you.

geonsocal

Narvuntien wrote: »

Needs to have bonuses when not in werewolf form. Vampire has them when not fully vamped.

I think just getting free resistances at all times seems good.

for the 22 or so skill point investment we should have an additional 5k in resistances plus give us back stam & health regen...

geonsocal

@Alpha-Lupi ...

That is why you need the Pelinals Aptitude Set in Medium

you're a genius - you may have just solved my stam sorc dilemma...

geonsocal

cloak for werewolf?

yes, yes, and absolutely yes...

NBrookus

Narvuntien wrote: »

Needs to have bonuses when not in werewolf form. Vampire has them when not fully vamped.

I think just getting free resistances at all times seems good.

Vampires also have all the downsides of vamp all the time. WW does not. If you want fully uptime on the benefits, you need the full uptime on the drawbacks, otherwise there is zero reason for a stam player NOT to be WW.

raviour

Werewolves and Khajiits definitely need some love from ZOS, thanks for the input folks and keep it coming.

It is possible to use invisibility pots on a wolf for a cloak but we should have more diversity in our morphs and lore is a great excuse

Maybe a potion that taunts on light attacks could solve our tanking problems. I do think the morphs need reworking though.

Qbiken

WW needs a lot of things, but a taunt isn´t one of them to be honest. The suggestions mention by @paulsimonps and @Chrlynsch are valid suggestions that ZOS should take into consideration. As mentioned earlier, if build correctly, a WW will win any 1v1 encounter in the game. Only a perma dodge-rolling stamblade/stamplar or a cloaking nightblade have a fair chance in a 1v1 against a good WW.

I would love to see WW getting their "perma-wolf" thing back, where you could stay in WW-form forever when playing in a pack. It´s an MMO after all, group play should be encouraged, not the opposite. And the fact that you need VERY specific gear-sets to be competitive as a WW (and by that making you more or less useless in human form), is a sign that WW needs an overhaul.

What I would like to see (aside from suggestions already mentioned by the players tagged above me), not all suggestions of course, but some would be nice
- Reduced effectiveness of negative effects/snares: To compensate makes Figher´s guild abilities deal a little more damage against WW´s. Another suggestion would be to make on of the morphs of the WW-heal remove negative effects/snares, and the other one increasing your weapon-damage. Then you´ve to make a choice between survivability/tankiness or damage.

- Passive increased HP-recovery that increases with lesser HP: Simple, the less HP you´ve, the more HP-regen you get.
- The ability to stay in WW-form permanently as long as you´re in a group with many WW´s: To encourage group
- Increased passive stealth detection range: You´re a WW, the ability to detect a hiding pray should be improved compared to other creatures.

@ZOS_GinaBruno We´ve seen a lot of posts lately regarding Werewolfs, it´s time that these creatures get some changes/updates.

IlCanis_LupuslI

DoonerSeraph wrote: »

First, a disclaimer: This is my opinion and its probably full of bias and probable wrong points.

IMO WW needs a lot of things to be on par with Vampire:

They need the ability to use a second bar, without any weapon skills, class skills and the undaunted taunt would suffice.

Fixing the recovery on heavy attacks, its horrendously low.

The ability to ressurrect, obviously.

They also need to be a toggle outside of the ultimate system and without a timer, allowing werewolves to have their own berserker or pack leader active ultimate (like a brutal swipe for berserker and a buffing howl for leader, move the decision to be berserker or leader to the WW quest).

They need to have the passives affecting them on human form to a lesser degree(eg: Savage strength also giving 2%/3% more weapon damage in human form) and the same for the poison and FG (10% extra damage taken from these in human form).

Passives that alter transformation timer should be changed to someting else, like for example:

Call of the Pack I: Increases your damage done by 1% for every Werewolf Berserker on your party, counting you, up to a maximum of 5%. This only counts for transformed group members.

Call of the pack II: Increases your damage done by 1% for every Werewolf Berserker on your party, counting you, up to a maximum of 5%.
Also reduces your damage taken by 1% for every Pack Leader on your party, counting you, up to a maximum of 5%.This only counts for transformed group members.

Obviously, some aspects of WW would need nerfs after all that: +9k resistances should be changed to +1k at most, bursty skills like the Howl should have their damage reduced. All WW skills should be rebalanced in cost/damage to be similiar to weapon skills, they are all too expensive now.

EDIT: Adding here that after comparing "Pounce" to "Critical Charge" (pounce 4050 base cost and Critical 3780), and "Infectious Claws" with "Cleave" (both at the same base cost: 3240), maybe its not the problem that WW skills are too costly, but that they dont have any resource management skills to help, AND their heavy attack is bugged (giving a very low return even with Pursuit passive).
Source of base cost numbers: UESP.

And my general opinion on the matter:

Don't get me wrong, WW is not weak when built right, but its so onedimensional, its a bursty tank on PvP, there are no WW in PvE for example. Also, WW is very bland, you lose your identity completely when you change, your class barely matters, you lose your ultimate, you cant regain it back, things like this are what lead people away from WW, its not that its weak, its just, meh, kinda boring.

Don't forget to FOR THE LOVE OF GOD A STAMINA HOT INSTEAD OF A MAGICS SUBPAR BURST HEAL! @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom @ZOS_Wrobel

Qbiken

Mangeli200194 wrote: »

DoonerSeraph wrote: »

First, a disclaimer: This is my opinion and its probably full of bias and probable wrong points.

IMO WW needs a lot of things to be on par with Vampire:

They need the ability to use a second bar, without any weapon skills, class skills and the undaunted taunt would suffice.

Fixing the recovery on heavy attacks, its horrendously low.

The ability to ressurrect, obviously.

They also need to be a toggle outside of the ultimate system and without a timer, allowing werewolves to have their own berserker or pack leader active ultimate (like a brutal swipe for berserker and a buffing howl for leader, move the decision to be berserker or leader to the WW quest).

They need to have the passives affecting them on human form to a lesser degree(eg: Savage strength also giving 2%/3% more weapon damage in human form) and the same for the poison and FG (10% extra damage taken from these in human form).

Passives that alter transformation timer should be changed to someting else, like for example:

Call of the Pack I: Increases your damage done by 1% for every Werewolf Berserker on your party, counting you, up to a maximum of 5%. This only counts for transformed group members.

Call of the pack II: Increases your damage done by 1% for every Werewolf Berserker on your party, counting you, up to a maximum of 5%.
Also reduces your damage taken by 1% for every Pack Leader on your party, counting you, up to a maximum of 5%.This only counts for transformed group members.

Obviously, some aspects of WW would need nerfs after all that: +9k resistances should be changed to +1k at most, bursty skills like the Howl should have their damage reduced. All WW skills should be rebalanced in cost/damage to be similiar to weapon skills, they are all too expensive now.

EDIT: Adding here that after comparing "Pounce" to "Critical Charge" (pounce 4050 base cost and Critical 3780), and "Infectious Claws" with "Cleave" (both at the same base cost: 3240), maybe its not the problem that WW skills are too costly, but that they dont have any resource management skills to help, AND their heavy attack is bugged (giving a very low return even with Pursuit passive).
Source of base cost numbers: UESP.

And my general opinion on the matter:

Don't get me wrong, WW is not weak when built right, but its so onedimensional, its a bursty tank on PvP, there are no WW in PvE for example. Also, WW is very bland, you lose your identity completely when you change, your class barely matters, you lose your ultimate, you cant regain it back, things like this are what lead people away from WW, its not that its weak, its just, meh, kinda boring.

Don't forget to FOR THE LOVE OF GOD A STAMINA HOT INSTEAD OF A MAGICS SUBPAR BURST HEAL! @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom @ZOS_Wrobel

Even if the heal scaling of magicka and spell-damage, the skill has one of the best "scaling" in the game. I still think the skill should cost magicka, since WW-stamina management is RIP at the moment. If it scale after stamina + weapon damage instead, I can guarantee that ZOS would nerf the heal, since it´s easier to stack a lot of weapondamage and stamina, than it is to stack a lot of spell-damage and max magicka.