DPS Que As Tanks

Khenarthi

I became a tank to avoid fake tanks. They're scum.

Now, if only there was a way to avoid poor (<10k) dps...

Flameheart

GoodFella146 wrote: »

Yeah well those ppl likely know better and wouldn't queue for those anyway. DPS that queue as a healer or a tank aren't doing anything wrong in almost all cases. The reality is you're wasting ppl's time by being a healer or tank for the majority of dungeons, yet someone y'all feel entitled to cry about a DPS not tanking the Blood Spawn (not you specifically, ppl in general when making similar complaints).

/kick

3 DDs who aren't able to pull their weight, want to hide their bad dps in the crowd and can't even get in sight of the dps of 2 good DDs with warhorn and positioning support of a tank are wasting MY playtime and my personal comfortness while playing.

Zbigb4life

freespirit wrote: »

Cadbury wrote: »

What's even worse is when a tank queues as a DPS.

So true

Well not if the DPS queues as tank...

Loc2262

GoodFella146 wrote: »

Yeah well most dungeons don't even need a tank so too bad

Most vet dungeons work best with a tank and 3 strong self-healing / self-sustaining DDs.

Narvuntien

When farmed bsw my guild mate and i queued together (as tank and healer) explained to the group we were niether then shared aggro of the bosses (we were both magdks) the fastest runs i had ever had of vet coa1.

Then i forgot to change my role next time i queued. I also then overestimated my tank skill and died to the first mob. Harness magicka isn't as useful against kwama

Jaimeh

I am guilty of sometimes doing this, but only for normal #1 dungeons with my stam dps that can breeze through them, and I never had any complains. Even some of the easier vets are OK if the dps has a taunt slotted. I do agree it'd be problematic for harder dungeons, because it's unfair to the rest of the members who expect not to have to deal with boss aggro, etc. As for cheating the system, it is indeed a bit of a shortcut, but healers and tanks have so much faster queues (I get an almost instant 'pop' with my tank), whereas a dps can wait up to an hour to find a group (which sucks if they are trying to farm something), and for this reason I don't mind it myself, if I'm dps'ing or healing in a group, and the tank is actually a dps - provided they don't die. I absolutely understand it might be annoying or a bit of an inconvenience to others, but given queue times, I get why it happens, and if the run goes smoothly, then I don't think it's that big of a deal.

Damican1982

This is easily remedied:

1) Buff bosses health by another 15-20%

2) Add another DPS slot to dungeons to alleviate long wait times for DPS

Jim_Pipp

I'm usually pretty tolerant, but it really bothers me when people que as a tank in the activity finder without even slotting a taunt. In activty finder you don't know if that dungeon will be someone's first ever dungeon, and expecting everyone to take the bosses aggro is not going to help the other three players learn their role, it is going to bring down the DPS of the actual Damage Dealers and will make the Healer work harder.

Normal dungeons are easy enough to solo with a little experience, so if you are que-jumping as a tank who is really a DD it won't hurt you to slot a taunt and do the role that you were brought in for (if you haven't unlocked the undaunted taunt then you definitely shouldn't be lying about your role). If you can't stay in one place taking damage from the boss then you clearly are not as good as you think you are and you are not good enough to lie about your role.

P.s. all these people saying it is optimal to have 3-4 dps in a group, good for you, go and do that with people who want to do that with you. If you do it in the activity finder then I hope the group kicks you for being a selfish *** who wanted to jump the que ahead of people who are going to do the role they que for.

raj72616a

i mostly run dungeons as tank myself so i don't know how serious is this "fake tank" problem. but i'm skeptical abt those complaints because i've been yelled at for:

1. not tanking pre gargolyte boss at volenfell
2. why does arx corinium boss run around to chase everyone
3. wayrest sewer 1, tank! why is the boss on me and one shot me?
4. not taunting every single trash mobs
5. not preventing dps to die from splash damage / environmental damage at coa2 final boss
and the list goes on

some people don't learn abt the mechanics, don't understand what a tank can or cannot do, and blame everything on the healer, then the tank.

Urza1234

GoodFella146 wrote: »

Yeah well some ppl may prefer to have 4 dps and finish quickly, not waste time with two players doing unnecessary things like tanking and healing. idk why it's such a big deal in easy dungeons

Because its defying the intended purpose of the system, its fraud. Maybe it doesnt hurt me nine times out of ten, but its not what I signed up for. I too prefer fast normal dungeons and do as much damage as I can afford to do when queueing for non-dps roles, but I still do my intended job.

Bare minimum if you queue as tank slot a taunt, bare minimum if you queue as healer slot a spammable heal. As long as those boxes are checked the other 9 skills can be damage, u will be fine.

That being said, if you queue as damage dealer, slot an execute, slot dots, dont roll in with 42k health and 4.2k dps.

VaranisArano

If you want to queue as a tank in a random group, I expect you to be able to meet the bare minimum of being a tank: use a taunt, hold aggro on the boss, and don't die. If you can't manage all three on ANY dungeon you could get put in, don't queue as a tank for a random group.

I do not care what you do in your pre-made groups with friends and guildies. Real tank, fake tank, no tank, no healer whatever the heck you want, as long as your pre-made group agreed to whatever combo of roles you picked, go for it.

4 DDs is optimal? Great. Go get 3 other DDs who agreed to run that and queue in a pre-made group. If I wanted to run in a group of 4 DDs or 3 DDs and a healer, I would have queued in a pre-made group myself, not waited for a random group finder group of 1 tank, 1 healer, and 2 DDS.

But if you roll into a random group dungeon without being able to fulfill even the most basic requirements of the job you picked, you are selfishly putting yourself over the desires of the other three people who expect you to meet the bare minimum requirements of said job. Those three other people do not deserve to have to put up with your shenanigans, no matter how fantastic your DPS is. A good DPS who queued as a tank without being able to tank? That's not a good DPS. That's not even a tank. That's a selfish player who can't fulfill the role they queued for and expects others to be happy to be left holding the bag.

Meld777

Cadbury wrote: »

What's even worse is when a tank queues as a DPS.

Finally someone figured out why 99% of DDs in group finder are utter garbage. It's all Tanks queueing as DDs! Also explains the lack of Tanks!

Jim_Pipp wrote: »

I'm usually pretty tolerant, but it really bothers me when people que as a tank in the activity finder without even slotting a taunt.

1000x this! Sometimes I queue with all roles as well, but when I get the Tank role, I slot a taunt! It's not the DDs'/Healer's job to deal with mechanics that are meant for the Tank. I am a full squishy mag NB, light armor, all points in Magicka, and able to tank any boss except vBF HM with just Harness Magicka and Funnel. By tanking I mean actual tanking, not kiting. I could probably kite vBF HM, but I'd never choose to annoy my group like that. Thus, I am not queueing for it as a Tank.

If you queue as a Tank, there is no excuse for not slotting a taunt! Yes, I'm talking to YOU, guy from a few days ago who queued with all roles, but didn't slot a taunt. I don't care your guild did world first your mom! I don't care that the two of us can easily finish vWGT in under 10 min and don't even need the pugs. When the pugs votekick you because you're spoiling their experience, making the poor CP 100 guys deal with Tank-addressed mechanics, I support the kick! And I'm definitely not slotting taunt when you're the one who queued as a Tank!

Runschei

This week I've been running in blackheart haven (94 completed runs in three days hehe) and I've queued as all three roles to get easy access. I do announce it in group chat and I ask if they want me to taunt or if they are doing quest. Usually we end up as 4dds and we run with no deaths. I don't think this is a problem.

Merlin13KAGL

If you want a non 'standard' grouping, then make a premade before you queue.

If you're using the group finder and can't remotely perform the role you listed (not as in new, but completely and deceptively ill equipped for it), there should be an option for group members to tag you accordingly.

So many tags and you should get to enjoy additional cooldown on your next GF request.

Don't waste other peoples' time just to get a spot in line, regardless of your percieved difficulty. And if it's clearly as easy as implied, then you should have no issues actually tanking, should you?

heartburnkid

Faster is better. Would you rather be in a group for 5 minutes or 25?

Kagetenchu

Runschei wrote: »

This week I've been running in blackheart haven (94 completed runs in three days hehe) and I've queued as all three roles to get easy access. I do announce it in group chat and I ask if they want me to taunt or if they are doing quest. Usually we end up as 4dds and we run with no deaths. I don't think this is a problem.

At least you communicate.

I think we can all at least agree on that if you queue for all 3 you should have at least a taunt or aoe heal available if needed.

Also on a side note note for those running in normal Dungeon finder, if you see lowbie toons on their chosen role how about not kicking them if you are going to choose healer or tanks as a dps

Nogawd

ArcaneBlue wrote: »

be honest about your role and intentions.

Ok, let's roll with honesty for a second, if that is indeed the problem.

So if a dps is a bad dps, they should tell everyone and get the boot too? Where is the line drawn?

As someone who mains a healer and has a tank, I would prefer to have someone who is good that lies about their roll than have a truthful terrible dps, which believe me is FAR more common.

Jim_Pipp

heartburnkid wrote: »

Faster is better. Would you rather be in a group for 5 minutes or 25?

I did not know that a tank doing the tank role adds 20 minutes, I will have to give you an insightful.

It isn't faster for the fake tank in my group because I will vote to kick them so they get a 15 minute ban from the activity finder.

Storymaster

The problem is, you don't always get experienced players in a Random Normal PUGs, so yes, it can be understandably frustrating to not have a legitimate tank when several other members cannot support a speedrun. This can be particularly hindering when you get a few of the trickier Tier 2 dungeons, which in my opinion, should be taken out of the Random Normal rotation because they are completely inappropriate for newcomers to the game.

Grabmoore

Nahtal wrote: »

GoodFella146 wrote: »

Yeah well most dungeons don't even need a tank so too bad

Disagree: do we talk normal or vet? Anyway you need always a Tank in dungeons.

No.
You can tank all dungeons in light armor with undaunted taunt and light armor shield. You don't need a tank except for maybe those dungeons where adds need to get tanked ( coh II or BC II for hardmode).

Flameheart

Jim_Pipp wrote: »

I'm usually pretty tolerant, but it really bothers me when people que as a tank in the activity finder without even slotting a taunt.

I agree but may add "and keeping the trash/boss in place without dying because of being a oneshot or major healing liability". Since Morrowind and the sustain nerfs it's not that kind of fun anymore to get mobs drawn out of your ground dots so that you have to chain-reapply them. Wasted stamina for Caltrops + Endless Hail going down in the nowhere is no fun at all and it's a major dps loss btw.

VaranisArano

heartburnkid wrote: »

Faster is better. Would you rather be in a group for 5 minutes or 25?

Faster? Better?

How many times am I going to deal with the boss resetting because a DPS kited him out of the arena without someone slotting a taunt to hold him steady? (Yes, this has happened. Wouldn't have happened if someone had a taunt.)

How many times am I going to stop DPSing to rez someone who died because they weren't specced for the boss to whale on them because they naturally expected that when we queued asking for a tank, we'd get a tank?

How many times am I going to have to recast my ground-based AOEs because the boss keeps moving because either no one has a taunt or the "tank" keeps dying or the "tank" can't hold the boss still and not die?

"Faster" is only better if this "DPS/tank" has enough DPS to burn down the boss before any mechanics happen even with the boss moving around and fighting other group members. Even there, I didn't sign up to be in this guy/girl's showcase of their amazing DPS talents (at my expense, because I'm having to do extra work to compensate for the lack of tanking, see above.) If I queue in a random group where I need the role of a tank, surprisingly enough, I WANT AN ACTUAL TANK. If I wanted your amazing DPS instead of a tank, I would have queued in a pre-made with you, and we'd all be happy. Instead, you've gotten to showcase your amazing skills for a "faster" "better" dungeon run, and I'm seething because you made me work harder to cover your utter lack of tanking ability.

vyndral13preub18_ESO

This is why mmo communities are fun. The easy dungeons are the beginning dungeons for new people to learn their role and play them properly. But if you do that, you are wasting everyones time and need to gtfo. Fantastic.

Queue post about tanks in vet dungeons/trials sucking.

raj72616a

Jim_Pipp wrote: »

heartburnkid wrote: »

Faster is better. Would you rather be in a group for 5 minutes or 25?

I did not know that a tank doing the tank role adds 20 minutes, I will have to give you an insightful.

It isn't faster for the fake tank in my group because I will vote to kick them so they get a 15 minute ban from the activity finder.

it's been changed recently.
if i come in the dungeon with full medium armor at 17k health as the tank, and you instant kick me without a word, i do NOT get a 15min cooldown. i just get removed from dungeon, can queue again immediately, and get into a different group in 10 second.

i have no idea how long you have to wait to get your tank replacement tho.

Jim_Pipp

raj72616a wrote: »

Jim_Pipp wrote: »

heartburnkid wrote: »

Faster is better. Would you rather be in a group for 5 minutes or 25?

I did not know that a tank doing the tank role adds 20 minutes, I will have to give you an insightful.

It isn't faster for the fake tank in my group because I will vote to kick them so they get a 15 minute ban from the activity finder.

it's been changed recently.
if i come in the dungeon with full medium armor at 17k health as the tank, and you instant kick me without a word, i do NOT get a 15min cooldown. i just get removed from dungeon, can queue again immediately, and get into a different group in 10 second.

i have no idea how long you have to wait to get your tank replacement tho.

I did not know that. I can see why Zos changed it, but I can see how that encourages the behaviour this thread is discussing.

Do you get the penalty if you get kicked after the first boss? That tends to be when the group realises whether they have a real tank or not, as most people doing easier normal and vet dungeons won't judge your stats or your gear when you arrive, only your lack of ability when it matters.

raj72616a

if i get to the first boss why would i even be kicked? lol

Jim_Pipp

raj72616a wrote: »

if i get to the first boss why would i even be kicked? lol

I'm not sure if you are trolling?

I'm sure I will regret this because I think you know this; it is bosses that do the most damage and have the most health, so it is at bosses that squishy dd really want a tank to take the damage and to keep the boss in place so ground based dots are most effective.

Without a tank holding a boss the other players have to drop their rotation to play defensively, dodge-rolling forwards, blocking or self-healing are best, but what some people do when they are targeted by a boss is run away, which makes everyone's job harder. It is at bosses you notice whether you have a tank or not.

Rex-Umbra

Tanks have been nerfed every patch last two years. Who the hell wants to tank.

raj72616a

Jim_Pipp wrote: »

raj72616a wrote: »

if i get to the first boss why would i even be kicked? lol

I'm not sure if you are trolling?

I'm sure I will regret this because I think you know this; it is bosses that do the most damage and have the most health, so it is at bosses that squishy dd really want a tank to take the damage and to keep the boss in place so ground based dots are most effective.

Without a tank holding a boss the other players have to drop their rotation to play defensively, dodge-rolling forwards, blocking or self-healing are best, but what some people do when they are targeted by a boss is run away, which makes everyone's job harder. It is at bosses you notice whether you have a tank or not.

my 17k health is in a safe range with most vet dungeon bosses. i have 100% up time on Major Fracture/Breach, Minor Maim, Major Ward/Resolve, Minor Ward/Resolve, and recast a 8400 damage shield every 8 seconds, self heal 3000 every 1 second. why would i be unable to tank the first mini bosses? in all medium armor i can add 10~15k single target dps in boss fight, so most dungeons can be run smoothly.

caution to fellow "fake tanks" tho: a few bosses in easier dungeons such as WS1 and spindle1 does particularly high burst damage so it's better to switch to heavy armor to get >30k health at the final boss fight.

bhagwad

Dear "fake tanks",

Don't kid yourselves. You don't queue as a tank for our benefit. You queue for yours by cheating. You don't think to yourself "I'll do this group a FAVOR. Tanks are useless, and we'll all have a good faster run without one!".

No. You queue as a tank because it reduces your wait times. That's it. If you had the same wait time as a DPS that you have with a tank, would you still queue as a tank? No!

So don't come here and spew nonsense about how most vet dungeons don't need a tank. That point is irrelevant, because you're not cheating to make our lives better, or our run faster. You're doing it so that you fool the system.

You are a cheater, and you're cheating for yourself - not out of some altruistic motive.

"But I'm not cheating!" you say. Umm...yes, you are. You are LYING about your intended role in a formal way by explicitly ticking a box in a tool that ZOS designed. That is the very definition of cheating.

Mind you, I'm not talking about "bad" tanks. I'm talking about DPSers who have no intention of tanking, don't have a taunt, and still queue for the tan role.

A bunch of cheaters, the whole lot of you.