Night capping discussion

Tlania

Hi all, before I start ALL 3 ALLAINCES are guilty of this.
we all know how feels to be on the receiving side of this, I've been thinking a lot how to stop it and one idea was, once the scrolls have gone the 3 home keeps cant be taken till the scrolls are returned not sure how they would do this maybe boost the NPCs at the gate and they help retake them>? It would give the factions that are been gate farmed a chance to spread out and retake stuff rather than just think " bugger it ill go pve or to a different alliance.

WrathOfInnos

But the world is round...

SirAndy

There is no such thing as"night capping". Your personal night is some else's prime time.

Google "timezones" and prepare to be educated!

Xvorg

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

But the world is round...

Everytime somebody writes "nightcapping", a little Galileo dies...

Vilestride

First issue I see with that fix is that scolls are worth 1 point and those 3 keeps are worth 3 to 12. Not long before factions are happy to forgo their scrolls permanently for that immunity.

KRBMMO

Just ask your mom if you can stay up later.

Seriously though - I will always START play AFTER 5 pm in my time zone, which is 11 pm for the NA East Coast.

Tlania

well thanks for the constructive feedback,

Agrippa_Invisus

What I think you're really having an issue with is large population disparities during certain points of the day.

If the population is balanced, there's nothing wrong with a faction flat out getting whipped. It happens, and it's natural / normal. Whether that be at 8pm or 8am.

If there are 2-3 bars of one faction and 1 bar the rest, that's where teh problem comes in, making it completely impossible to defend against that one faction and getting the entire map flipped. This most commonly happens during nighttime for the majority of players on a server, hence the poorly used term 'night capping'.

The way to fix this is, and always has been, to implement dynamic population locks. No more than X number (determined by ZOS) of one faction than the least populous factions. As more of the lower pop log in, more of the higher pop can as well.

This encourages the larger faction to play different factions to actually get into the server and have fun, balanced fights.

elfantasmo

Only way to really stop overly advantageous play is gentleman’s agreement between all 3 factions most concientiois players. No matter what ZOS implements there will be something else to workaround. Still unlike Ayrenn Arana Aldmeri, High King Emeric and Jorunn the Skald-King Cyrodil will never have a council there is wayy to much bad blood and personal vendettas.

Biro123

SirAndy wrote: »

There is no such thing as"night capping". Your personal night is some else's prime time.

Google "timezones" and prepare to be educated!

Wow people really jumped all over this..

OK, instead of saying 'nightcapping' (which is nice and concise, and we all know what is meant by it), should we be saying 'stacking the strongest faction during off-peak time to pvdoor (and by pvdoor, I mean take undefended keeps) so that we can win campaign after campaign while ensuring that the majority of players who play when the servers are pop-locked have absolutely no influence on the campaign standings' ?

Nah, I think I'll just stick to nightcapping.

WaltherCarraway

Check my signature.

SirAndy

Biro123 wrote: »

Nah, I think I'll just stick to nightcapping

And how do you know the server is empty while you are sleeping? You simply assume that the moment you close your eyes, the server becomes an empty wasteland.

And what does pop-lock have to do with that? There's plenty of times when the inner keeps are fiercely defended while none of the factions are locked.

Just because you are counting sheep doesn't mean nobody else is playing.
Sure, a campaign will have a peak, but the absence of a peak is not the same as empty.

Why is this so hard to understand?

Valencer

SirAndy wrote: »

Biro123 wrote: »

Nah, I think I'll just stick to nightcapping

And how do you know the server is empty while you are sleeping? You simply assume that the moment you close your eyes, the server becomes an empty wasteland.

And what does pop-lock have to do with that? There's plenty of times when the inner keeps are fiercely defended while none of the factions are locked.

Just because you are counting sheep doesn't mean nobody else is playing.
Sure, a campaign will have a peak, but the absence of a peak is not the same as empty.

Why is this so hard to understand?

Do you really want to use this as an argument?

On PC EU Vivec, AD has been rolling over the whole map every night/morning with dozens and dozens of people, versus no or minimal (read: 5-10 people) defense. For over a year now, almost every morning there's been an AD emp and all 4 DC/EP scrolls in AD homekeeps.Meanwhile on Sotha Sil, EP does the exact same thing in a systematic way

The problem with your line of thought is that people arent logging on at night to PvP... theyre logging on at night to actively PvDoor empty keeps and flip the whole map. And it absolutely has a negative impact on the other people in the campaign as people simply lose the desire to play the map.

People are stacking on the same alliance in the off-hours on purpose to have easy wins and easy AP (since Homestead PvDooring undefended objectives awards significant AP). This is not PvP.

SirAndy

Valencer wrote: »

Do you really want to use this as an argument?
On PC EU Vivec, AD has been rolling over the whole map every night/morning with dozens and dozens of people, versus no or minimal (read: 5-10 people) defense. For over a year now, almost every morning there's been an AD emp and all 4 DC/EP scrolls in AD homekeeps.Meanwhile on Sotha Sil, EP does the exact same thing in a systematic way
The problem with your line of thought is that people arent logging on at night to PvP... theyre logging on at night to actively PvDoor empty keeps and flip the whole map. And it absolutely has a negative impact on the other people in the campaign as people simply lose the desire to play the map.
People are stacking on the same alliance in the off-hours on purpose to have easy wins and easy AP (since Homestead PvDooring undefended objectives awards significant AP). This is not PvP.

Right, so every time you go offline, your faction population drops to zero and someone else comes in and takes all your resources while they are completely undefended.

Got it, sounds totally legit!

Rianai

When one side has 3 bars or is locked vs 1 or 2 bars on the other sides for hours every single day, it gives a pretty clear view about what is going on. I don't know, how anybody could think about the idea, that massive population imbalances at "off-times" are just made up ... (guess you are just trolling, but w/e)

(Population imbalance exists at prime time too - you just have to look at different queues - but the population limit prevents the issue from getting out of hand for those few hours)

SirAndy

Rianai wrote: »

When one side has 3 bars or is locked vs 1 or 2 bars on the other sides for hours every single day, it gives a pretty clear view about what is going on. I don't know, how anybody could think about the idea, that massive population imbalances at "off-times" are just made up ... (guess you are just trolling, but w/e)

(Population imbalance exists at prime time too - you just have to look at different queues - but the population limit prevents the issue from getting out of hand for those few hours)

But population imbalance is not the same as "nightcapping". That's a completely separate issue.

What people here imply is that nobody but a few people play when they are asleep.
Yet having on faction pop-locked while you sleep means the campaign is far from empty. There are plenty of people playing.

The campaign just isn't balanced, which has nothing to do with your "nightcapping".

So what is it? Are you salty because other people play while you sleep or are you salty because there's a population imbalance while you sleep or are you just salty that you wake up to a map that doesn't fly your colors?

Until convinced otherwise, i assume it's the latter ...

Rianai

Oh sry, didn't know you don't even read what is written in a thread you are posting.

idk

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

But the world is round...

The best reply that can be made. Both server locations have players from across the times zones and things will always change during your night as a result.

If you are in NA area you will find an active AUS contingent and EU will find it has AUS and NA players.

It does not matter how many are in the campaign at the time. It is a bad idea to give some players a different set of rules they have to play by due to the time they can play.

ToRelax

If you actually follow the campaigns for a few years and play at both prime time and off peak hours sometimes, you should be aware that the most notorious nightcappers aren't just playing in off peak hours. But unlike the players who just look for some PvP when few people are online, that is when those nightcappers will make the greatest effort to capture objectives. Which players from which faction(s) do it changes sometimes, although it seems like we are now at somewhat of a low point with the quality of nightcapping players on PC EU Vivec. Like, you know, people actually got bored of it. Instead of just living on the other side of the planet.

Ranger209

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/376169/night-capping-and-score-modification#latest

Biro123

SirAndy wrote: »

Biro123 wrote: »

Nah, I think I'll just stick to nightcapping

And how do you know the server is empty while you are sleeping? You simply assume that the moment you close your eyes, the server becomes an empty wasteland.

And what does pop-lock have to do with that? There's plenty of times when the inner keeps are fiercely defended while none of the factions are locked.

Just because you are counting sheep doesn't mean nobody else is playing.
Sure, a campaign will have a peak, but the absence of a peak is not the same as empty.

Why is this so hard to understand?

Why do you think 'off-peak' = while I sleep?

The PC EU server starts filling up between 6/7 pm and starts emptying between 11/12 pm. During this time it is pop-locked (apart from ep who for some reason would rather be the only locked faction on sotha).
Now where in my post did I say that I only play in primetime?
I often log off at around 2am. I also work from home so again reasonably often log in before work (can be for an hour between 6 and 9am) and at lunchtime for an hour.
So yeah, apart from a 4-hour period between 2am and 6am, I have a pretty good idea of the game population in vivek.
And yes, off-peak, one faction massively outnumbers the others and dictates the campaign.
I have seen this faction stomped back down to 2 keeps every primetime only to own every single scroll and keep on the map at 8am the next morning, where as soon as 5 or 6 people try attacking a keep, they get swarmed by the 20+ nightcappers.

I have no problem with people playing off-peak.
But I do have a problem with the 20 players who stack one faction off-peak and decide the winning faction, while the 100s of peak-time players have no impact.

Valencer

Biro123 wrote: »

I have no problem with people playing off-peak.
But I do have a problem with the 20 players who stack one faction off-peak and decide the winning faction, while the 100s of peak-time players have no impact.

He's just going to tell you that you're wrong and that observable facts actually aren't true. Or maybe argue that the map being 1 colour every morning for over a year isnt actually a problem. And in reality he probably doesn't even play PvP.

These forums are just amazing sometimes.

Sharee

The simplest solution would be a dynamic population cap.

Take the lowest faction's population as base cap. The other 2 factions are not allowed to get more players than this cap.
Allow for some leeway (so that we don't get a 1v1v1 deadlock with 150 queues on all sides).

When one faction's population drops, other factions' players aren't kicked out, just new ones are prevented from joining until the other factions' population gets lower naturally due to players leaving(and not being replaced).

This is not against "nightcapping", this is for general campaign population balance at all times. Fixed.

Feanor

SirAndy wrote: »

Valencer wrote: »

Do you really want to use this as an argument?
On PC EU Vivec, AD has been rolling over the whole map every night/morning with dozens and dozens of people, versus no or minimal (read: 5-10 people) defense. For over a year now, almost every morning there's been an AD emp and all 4 DC/EP scrolls in AD homekeeps.Meanwhile on Sotha Sil, EP does the exact same thing in a systematic way
The problem with your line of thought is that people arent logging on at night to PvP... theyre logging on at night to actively PvDoor empty keeps and flip the whole map. And it absolutely has a negative impact on the other people in the campaign as people simply lose the desire to play the map.
People are stacking on the same alliance in the off-hours on purpose to have easy wins and easy AP (since Homestead PvDooring undefended objectives awards significant AP). This is not PvP.

Right, so every time you go offline, your faction population drops to zero and someone else comes in and takes all your resources while they are completely undefended.

Got it, sounds totally legit!

It’s rather simple. None of those eloquent defenses for that *** behavior really matter. There is a point when people just have enough and will simply stop playing the campaign. I’m at that point with EU Sotha Sil. I don’t care what it’s called. But it’s BS and I won’t waste my time with it any longer.

AddictionX

The world is round and everyone has their prime time whenever they wish, except.... one thing... all the shift workers/Australians/"little Galileos"/_insert irrelevant strawman argument here_ apparently all play the same faction.

hmmm thinks ....

wait... let me repeat that... and highlight it and rewrite it.... they all apparently play ... the same faction.

during the ... least populated hours to ensure no opposition.

During the Early days, it was brought up to have 3 -8 hour campaigns score evaluations for the same campaign. So this way everyone can play at their "prime time" and when they come back during their prime time they still receive the benefits of the effort put forth.

No one loses, everyone wins! No one is punished and the _irrelevant strawman arguments_ can finally have a legit place in a post!

Kram8ion

Geeze this again?
Still putting butter on burns
And please stop nite capping MY campaign

Rickter

@SirAndy your callous, unapolegetic, smug and sarcastic responses are very off putting. As someone who left the game shortly after its launch, and subsequently dropped all support for ESO during that time despite having the prestigious honor of being the Psijic Order, you do appear to be enjoying a place ontop of your high horse.

This is a legitimate concern, that deserves a legitimate discussion. Players have voiced their disdain and begged ZOS to address this concern for a long time. All youve provided are trolling remarks, deliberatly ending all of your posts with a satcastic and smug emote. If you have no real constructive contribution, why post at all?

SirAndy

Rickter wrote: »

@SirAndy your callous, unapolegetic, smug and sarcastic responses are very off putting. As someone who left the game shortly after its launch, and subsequently dropped all support for ESO during that time despite having the prestigious honor of being the Psijic Order, you do appear to be enjoying a place ontop of your high horse.

Well well well, i "left" the game for personal reasons (that thing called real life) for about 6 months and it wasn't "shortly after launch", it was almost a year after launch.

"Dropped all support for ESO" ???
I've been a ESO+ subscriber from the start and only put my subscription on hold for the time i was gone.
Tell me you wouldn't have done the same.



I think i made my point clear:
With only two mega-servers catering to the whole globe (!), there simply is no such thing as night capping.
Your night is someone else's prime time. End of story.

ToRelax

SirAndy wrote: »

[...]

I think i made my point clear:
With only two mega-servers catering to the whole globe (!), there simply is no such thing as night capping.
Your night is someone else's prime time. End of story.

Prime time describes the time when most players are active, not when you personally want to play. Your argument also still fails to explain the outcome beyond "there are players playing in off-peak hours". Which no one has a problem with in the first place.

Nogawd

Ok lets make new campaigns for not just individual time zones of the US, but for other countries for the world as well.

"Nightcapping" complaints are a joke.

SirAndy

ToRelax wrote: »

"there are players playing in off-peak hours". Which no one has a problem with in the first place.

Are we reading the same thread?


This thread is full of comments along the lines of "i don't want all *my* hard work go to waste while i'm sleeping, i deserve special treatment because of where i live and when i play."