IS THE HEAVY ARMOR NERF ENOUGH?

Asmael

People thinking nerfing heavy armor will stop permablocking or make medium armor more viable.

Good one.

olsborg

No, explain.

Its not the heavy armor skilltree per se that needs a nerf, sure the nerf it got this week isnt uncalled for imo, but all the insane sets you get in heavy armor is the root of the problem. Fury, seventh legion, ravager etc etc.

teladoy

Yes, explain.

i don't see where the problem is, now every gear do their job. The only nerf to Heavy armor was the 200 stacks of weapons spell damage.

Heavy boost survivality.
Medium boost weapon damage.
Light boost spell damage.

End of the topic.

Girl_Number8

Yes, explain.

Yes, because they now need to nerf incap and soul assault Not to mention that new change in the cp tree.

I WONDER IF I POST THESE NERFS IN ALL CAPS IF IT WILL HAPPEN, LOL

SirCritical

Yes, explain.

Enough of nerf. I'm not against challenge, but I can't see any meaning of making things unusable.

Girl_Number8

Yes, explain.

SirCritical wrote: »

Enough of nerf. I'm not against challenge, but I can't see any meaning of making things unusable.

Yeah, but in all honesty they have made a lot of classes very near unusable except two.

Girl_Number8

Yes, explain.

I mean even this poll is basically a nerf poll in disguise. The poster most likely mains a nightblade.

Personally I would love to see all the classes buffed. There should be hard to kill tanky toons because they sacrificed to be tanky. Just as there should be someone off their horse because they got an arrow in the back.

It's really good team work both in dungeons and pvp that make things work.

Azurya

Yes, explain.

Girl_Number8 wrote: »

I mean even this poll is basically a nerf poll in disguise. The poster is most likely mains a nightblade.

Personally I would love to see all the classes buffed. There should be hard to kill tanky toons because they sacrificed to be tanky. Just as there should be someone off their horse because they got an arrow in the back.

It's really good team work both in dungeons and pvp that make things work.

Playing 7 NB myself I am so sick of all these NERF-threads, it is so disgusting and it doesn´t develope the game and our experience in any psotive way. NERFS sucks. One of my NB is Saptank and wears heavy, wtf, should she do, wear medium/light, that build is [snip] forever!

[Edited for profanity]

Flameheart

Yes, explain.

From a pure PvE tank point of view I can live with that as long as they don't touch ressource sustain again. Revitalizing still gives the important bonus. As I usually play magicka build tanks in PvE I discarded my former Ebon + Tavas + Shuffle builds in favor of Ebon + Akaviri, because using shuffle as a magicka based tank was already very expensive and not that easy to keep up. So I just took the flat ultimate cost decrease from Akaviri which makes not a big difference in compare to the ultimate reg of Tavas in combination with evading. So the shuffle nerf does not hurt me at all. The only class where Tavas still might make sense is a magicka NB tank because they have their own magicka based evade buff, which is not so bad, because it gives magicka NB tanks some uniqueness now.

If I would have a wish for free, I would like that Revitalizing might give some ressource gain on LAs too, a lot less as for HAs of course, based on the different time windows you need to execute a LA or HA. It won't be much in the end (because Tenacity won't support LAs), but for a PvE tank better than nothing.

silky_soft

No, explain.

Any stamina that's passively gained while blocking is stupid

Azurya

Yes, explain.

I say delete heavy armour from the game NOW!
cauze nerfing it to unusable isn´t enough, it should be forbidden to have and wear it!

Not enough to make it unusable, it has to be deleted from the game, nobody should be able to wear it!

and for the next patch we go to make medium unusable,!
I ASK YOU: DO YOU WANT THE TOTAL NERF!
and you all yell: YES
WE WANT ALL NERFED TO BE UNUSABLE!
SO WE ALL LIVE FOREVER AND NEVER GET KILLED ANYMORE!

Asardes

Yes, explain.

Wrath was really out of place on heavy armor. Removing it was a step back from DB nearly one and a half years ago, but they didn't nerf the problematic sets that made it so strong: Seventh Legion, Ravager, Berserking Warrior, Warrior's Fury. The proc on those needs to be redesigned.

Asardes

Yes, explain.

As for the perma-blocking problem, it's not heavy that's at fault, since it has not had a block cost reduction passive in 1.5 years. Bracing was replaced with Wrath in DB, and Wrath is now being simply deleted. To remove perma-blocking the blocking mechanic should be changed. In my opinion it should work the same way as Wrath, but in reverse: each attack blocked increases subsequent block cost for a certain time, stacking a number of times. The base block cost should be lower than now, to allow the blocking of 1-2 attacks even by characters with low off-resource, but the maximum block cost would be significantly higher than now. This will not handicap PvE tanks as much, since most fights are scripted so you can actually drop block and choose what to block pretty reliably, and you build for significant cost reduction anyway (shield play enchants, shadow ward CP, sturdy armor). Also Defensive Stance should be rework to reduce the cool-down on this stacking instead when slotted, as the current bonus of increased block mitigation and reduced cost is shared with some of the skill passives and several class passives.

Girl_Number8

Yes, explain.

Azurya wrote: »

Girl_Number8 wrote: »

I mean even this poll is basically a nerf poll in disguise. The poster is most likely mains a nightblade.

Personally I would love to see all the classes buffed. There should be hard to kill tanky toons because they sacrificed to be tanky. Just as there should be someone off their horse because they got an arrow in the back.

It's really good team work both in dungeons and pvp that make things work.

Playing 7 NB myself I am so sick of all these NERF-threads, it is so disgusting and it doesn´t develope the game and our experience in any psotive way. NERFS sucks. One of my NB is Saptank and wears heavy, wtf, should she do, wear medium/light, that build is f*cked forever!

So is my blazing shield, my tankplar, and many other unique builds. I like playing all the classes. Though it seems that two classes are dominating the nerf threads killing the support classes. Which is what this thread really is.

See the saptanky another build getting it. Our we going to just get a template character next??

Fuxo

No, explain.

The problem with heavy armor is that it makes you automatically tanky and gives a lot of survivability. Everything is automatic and free. No skill is required. It's a bit different with LA and MA. There, you have to know the combat flow pretty well in order to take advantage from the passives. Especially with MA. Similarly, there should be a way how to change HA to involve a bit of skill.

Constitution:
Restore both stamina and magicka from heavy attacks after a successful block.
Permablocking would give 0 resources this way as you need to perform a heavy attack.

Juggernaut:
Restore magicka and stamina when you interrupt an enemy.
Tanks would need to use bash, charge skills or crushing shock with a frost staff, etc.

Urza1234

Asardes wrote: »

As for the perma-blocking problem, it's not heavy that's at fault, since it has not had a block cost reduction passive in 1.5 years. Bracing was replaced with Wrath in DB, and Wrath is now being simply deleted. To remove perma-blocking the blocking mechanic should be changed. In my opinion it should work the same way as Wrath, but in reverse: each attack blocked increases subsequent block cost for a certain time, stacking a number of times. The base block cost should be lower than now, to allow the blocking of 1-2 attacks even by characters with low off-resource, but the maximum block cost would be significantly higher than now. This will not handicap PvE tanks as much, since most fights are scripted so you can actually drop block and choose what to block pretty reliably, and you build for significant cost reduction anyway (shield play enchants, shadow ward CP, sturdy armor). Also Defensive Stance should be rework to reduce the cool-down on this stacking instead when slotted, as the current bonus of increased block mitigation and reduced cost is shared with some of the skill passives and several class passives.

Thats actually a really good idea, except you forgot 1 thing:
Perma-blocking is interesting, dynamic, and skill-intensive gameplay.

Asardes

Yes, explain.

Urza1234 wrote: »

Asardes wrote: »

As for the perma-blocking problem, it's not heavy that's at fault, since it has not had a block cost reduction passive in 1.5 years. Bracing was replaced with Wrath in DB, and Wrath is now being simply deleted. To remove perma-blocking the blocking mechanic should be changed. In my opinion it should work the same way as Wrath, but in reverse: each attack blocked increases subsequent block cost for a certain time, stacking a number of times. The base block cost should be lower than now, to allow the blocking of 1-2 attacks even by characters with low off-resource, but the maximum block cost would be significantly higher than now. This will not handicap PvE tanks as much, since most fights are scripted so you can actually drop block and choose what to block pretty reliably, and you build for significant cost reduction anyway (shield play enchants, shadow ward CP, sturdy armor). Also Defensive Stance should be rework to reduce the cool-down on this stacking instead when slotted, as the current bonus of increased block mitigation and reduced cost is shared with some of the skill passives and several class passives.

Thats actually a really good idea, except you forgot 1 thing:
Perma-blocking is interesting, dynamic, and skill-intensive gameplay.

Not really. On DK you only need to weave HA or LA every few seconds, do heroic slash and hit ingenous every 6 and you can build ultimate fast and fill most of your resources. It's easier on a magicka build. It's one of the most boring play-styles. I'm so sick and tired of PvE tanking that in PvP I only run my stam DK in medium.

Strider__Roshin

No, explain.

Izaki wrote: »

Heavy Armor itself isn't the problem. The passives are very good but not OP. Just like Light Armor passives.

The problem is: the sets. Especially Ravager, Armor of Truth, Seventh Legion and Fury. How on earth are the first 2 even Heavy Armor? They should be medium. Seventh Legion and Fury are in line with the Brawler playstyle which fits the Heavy theme, but they still over the top. Why are they over the top? Because not a single medium armor set gives that much damage potential (not even close to be honest).

This leads us to the next problem. Why are all the medium armor sets, aside from Bone Pirate, terrible? There's literally only 1 Medium armor set that procs weapon damage: Senche. But its unusable by most builds since the buff duration is way too short. If there were medium armor sets like Ravager or Veiled Heritance, medium would already be much more popular.

This leads us to the last and biggest problem: medium armor passives suck. Sneak radius? Why? Replace this with a proper defensive passive.

Boom.

And there's your answer. Well said.

Asardes

Yes, explain.

Light armor has a spell resistance passive. Why not give medium a physical damage one? IMO even the LA armor one needs a bit of buffing since it only amounts to about 1.8K with 5p. Make it 2.6K spell for light, 2.6K physical for medium.

xRIVALENx

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

200 damage means nothing. we could use fundamental changes to blocking. we need cost stacking for perma-blocking.

Sounds great on paper, if there is no separation of pvp and pve you would basically kill pve tanking.

Rex-Umbra

Enough for me to give up using HA.

eso_nya

MISSING CONTEXT: ENOUGH FOR WHAT?

Assuming u r talking about pvp:
Afaik, theres a grp of ppl around here, who have been/are using heavy armor alot and say the nerf is "meh, wont stop me" and theres a grp of ppl around who blamed their failure in pvp on heavy armor and r saying "finally! noone will ever use heavy in pvp again".
So YES, the nerf was enough to satisfy the crybabies and NO the nerf was not enough to have an impact on good players. But than, to have a real impact on good players u'd need to remove alot more stuff from the game, would be easier to remove their keyboards.
hm, that gives me a nice idea: Remove barswaps for ppl above 500 cp (or ava rank 10). remove one skillslot for every 100 cp above cap (or 10 ava ranks above 10). yeah, that would stop me for good xD

TequilaFire

Yes, explain.

Another armor thread, may as well make it a nerf sorc thread makes as much sense.
Gets attention I guess.

Urza1234

Asardes wrote: »

Urza1234 wrote: »

Asardes wrote: »

As for the perma-blocking problem, it's not heavy that's at fault, since it has not had a block cost reduction passive in 1.5 years. Bracing was replaced with Wrath in DB, and Wrath is now being simply deleted. To remove perma-blocking the blocking mechanic should be changed. In my opinion it should work the same way as Wrath, but in reverse: each attack blocked increases subsequent block cost for a certain time, stacking a number of times. The base block cost should be lower than now, to allow the blocking of 1-2 attacks even by characters with low off-resource, but the maximum block cost would be significantly higher than now. This will not handicap PvE tanks as much, since most fights are scripted so you can actually drop block and choose what to block pretty reliably, and you build for significant cost reduction anyway (shield play enchants, shadow ward CP, sturdy armor). Also Defensive Stance should be rework to reduce the cool-down on this stacking instead when slotted, as the current bonus of increased block mitigation and reduced cost is shared with some of the skill passives and several class passives.

Thats actually a really good idea, except you forgot 1 thing:
Perma-blocking is interesting, dynamic, and skill-intensive gameplay.

Not really. On DK you only need to weave HA or LA every few seconds, do heroic slash and hit ingenous every 6 and you can build ultimate fast and fill most of your resources. It's easier on a magicka build. It's one of the most boring play-styles. I'm so sick and tired of PvE tanking that in PvP I only run my stam DK in medium.

I apparently needed to write SARCASM real big for it to come across.

technohic

Need context.

Enough to hurt heavy armor? Probably to much in the wrong ways when it is sets that really need addressed. For Magicka builds, it was probably fine for the most part. Light armor is fine

Enought to make medium more used? Probably not. The gap is in sets and bad medium passives.

nimander99

Wat?! They are nerfing Heavy Armor again...?

Wreuntzylla

Urza1234 wrote: »

Sixty5 wrote: »

I am assuming that when you mean heavy armour nerf you are talking about the removal of wrath as well as the loss of shuffle.

In that case, I would say that it does look to be enough. The changes should cut down PVP burst by 1-2k damage, which in the end is pretty reasonable, as well as increasing the amount of damage that they take.

The changes also mean that snares become a strong counter to heavy builds, either forcing them to open themselves up by running a gap closer or by removing a strong burst heal from their arsenal.

Medium could still use some kind of buff in terms of defensive utility in PVP, but I think the changes to heavy are enough to move it out of the place it was in, and in a more healthy direction.

A small buff to Medium dodge roll perhaps?

You can buff permaroll? Isn't that like adding to infinity?

Yubarius

No, explain.

Heavy armor isn't the big problem, it's blocking. Just add something into battlespirit so that block only reduces incoming damage by 25% instead of the 50% it currently is (at least I think it's 50% right now).

Urza1234

Wreuntzylla wrote: »

Urza1234 wrote: »

Sixty5 wrote: »

I am assuming that when you mean heavy armour nerf you are talking about the removal of wrath as well as the loss of shuffle.

In that case, I would say that it does look to be enough. The changes should cut down PVP burst by 1-2k damage, which in the end is pretty reasonable, as well as increasing the amount of damage that they take.

The changes also mean that snares become a strong counter to heavy builds, either forcing them to open themselves up by running a gap closer or by removing a strong burst heal from their arsenal.

Medium could still use some kind of buff in terms of defensive utility in PVP, but I think the changes to heavy are enough to move it out of the place it was in, and in a more healthy direction.

A small buff to Medium dodge roll perhaps?

You can buff permaroll? Isn't that like adding to infinity?

Mikuelray

No, explain.

The issue isn't heavy armor it's permablock that needs to be gutted. Shouldn't take 15 to 20 people to kill one person. People shouldn't beable to cast skills other than S&B skills while blocking. The pvp is slowly dying. Fewer people are playing it cause of cancer builds that just hold block down and still putting out great dps. HA is for tanking not dealing the amount of damage as LA and MA. All Cryo has is HA and S&B.