Why would you take the stun from frags away?

TheShadowScout

Micah_Bayer wrote: »

Why would you take the stun from frags away?

...because it was OP? I mean, that's usually the case when the nerfhammer strikes...

Oakmontowls_ESO wrote: »

probably for the same reason they did it to wrecking blow. They want you to chose between damage and CC.

Yeah, , and that makes for good choices. Choices are fun, having to see which advantage you want to go for, instead of getting them all...

Micah_Bayer wrote: »

Choose between the one other skill that no one uses?

HEY! I was using that one... (for fluff reasons, mostly)
But generally, when "everyone" uses one skill morph, and noone the other... that's a pretty good indication something is broken and needs fixing, buffing or nefring as they choose. This time, they nerfed.

In the end, things change.
Accept it.
Adapt to it.
Carry on gaming...

Yolokin_Swagonborn

Because the CHAMPION SYSTEM is ruining the game and causing so much power creep and unbalance that iconic class skills have to be nerfed to try to bring things inline.

How many more huge nerfs until we are fully balanced? If you keep adding CP and nerfing skills, we will end up with classes that can all insta-gib eachother with skills only differentiated by their particle effects.

GrigorijMalahevich

Magsorc main - remove shieldstack, but for the love of god, stop this nonsense with crystal blasts buffs and frags nerfs...

Streak is not a reliable source of CC... Streak is broken. People that say "use streak for CC" should just intercourse themselves.

Solo play sorcs don't use rune prison, every experienced player uses defensive rune... To stop playing horse riding simulator and start fighting.

In reality, avarage magsorc has no CC now...
Smart, very smart.

Ironic - nobody is going to use crystal blast in PvE ir/and PvP... smart, very smart, totally on a different level.

OdinForge

This change wasn't brought about by people complaining, I've literally never seen one complaint about fragments stunning.

This change was brought about because Wrobel wanted to make crystal blast as a skill work, despite the fact that it's an inherently flawed and useless skill. Instead of just redesigning that morph into something useful or worth taking, something we'd pick over frags.

Just wow.

Yolokin_Swagonborn

OdinForge wrote: »

This change wasn't brought about by people complaining, I've literally never seen one complaint about fragments stunning.

This change was brought about because Wrobel wanted to make crystal blast as a skill work, despite the fact that it's an inherently flawed and useless skill. Instead of just redesigning that morph into something useful or worth taking, something we'd pick over frags.

Just wow.

If you can't make something better, just ruin the alternative. #BalanceByWrobel

Lexxypwns

D0PAMINE wrote: »

It's frustrating to be hit with frags over and over again. I love the skill, but you get hit once, by the time youre getting up you can be hit by 2 or more, depending on how well the user can animation cancel. Its just a spammable with a cast time with a high chance to negate the cast.

actually, if you're using it as a spammable its got a 0% chance to proc an instant cast since it cannot proc itself lol. People...

Micah_Bayer wrote: »

Sigma957 wrote: »

It doesn't matter that they took away stun from frags as frags still can proc insta cast at reduced cost and hits a lot harder.

How does it hit a lot harder? Did they buff the dmg in place of removing the stun?

The proc'ed frag has always gotten a damage boost over hard casted. He's refering to the flavor text on the tooltip that says something along the lines of [chance to get an instant cast with X reduced cost and Y increased damage]. Technically he's right and the number one reason to run frag still exists - instant cast high damage proc. I agree with you that this nerf is absolutely not needed and its going to take utility away from the sorc in order to A: Sustain streak as your main CC B: run destructive reach C: run and sustain rune cage

Valera Progib wrote: »

Magsorc main - remove shieldstack, but for the love of god, stop this nonsense with crystal blasts buffs and frags nerfs...

Streak is not a reliable source of CC... Streak is broken. People that say "use streak for CC" should just intercourse themselves.

Solo play sorcs don't use rune prison, every experienced player uses defensive rune... To stop playing horse riding simulator and start fighting.

In reality, avarage magsorc has no CC now...
Smart, very smart.

Ironic - nobody is going to use crystal blast in PvE ir/and PvP... smart, very smart, totally on a different level.

Even if we close our eyes and pretend streak isn't buggy AF, let's talk about how you're supposed to sustain casting that every time you need to CC someone.

Its not like rune cage is a better option either since its expensive and requires you to lose a skill on your bars. Maybe they're just hoping all sorcs will sub a 3rd shield for rune cage? ZoS logic after all

mb10

Erm because it was stupidly over powered?
Also can be casted and used with other abilities at the same time despite the fact that it has a cast time

It was a very good decision by ZOS and now Sorcs can stop copying each other's combinations in combat and maybe think of their own.

Every single sorc does the exact same combination of attacks and it relies on the stun from frags.

Not no more lmao L2P the lot of you who oppose this change

Sanctum74

Sorcs will still have 6 different cc skills available to them, but now they will have to manage their resources, morphs, and bar slots more carefully.

If your really having that much trouble with the change then try playing a templar or warden. They only have 2 cc skills available and they usually miss, cause a load screen, or send you flying to your death through the map.

And no this isn't a nerf sorc post, I'm actually playing one as I type. Having an unblockable, undodgeable stun being added versus losing it on the frags morph seems like a win to me. Not to mention we still have a nice shield available if we want to wear heavy armour. Still so many options for sorcs, make it work.

Micah_Bayer

mb10 wrote: »

Erm because it was stupidly over powered?
Also can be casted and used with other abilities at the same time despite the fact that it has a cast time

It was a very good decision by ZOS and now Sorcs can stop copying each other's combinations in combat and maybe think of their own.

Every single sorc does the exact same combination of attacks and it relies on the stun from frags.

Not no more lmao L2P the lot of you who oppose this change

Lol tell that to every NB that uses surprise attack to stop copying the same abilities. It's instant,has high dmg, and stuns from stealth. Hint hint. You're a NB you have a skill that puts you in stealth

Rickter

just like the first poster wrote: "probably for the same reason they did it to wrecking blow. They want you to chose between damage and CC."

And as stated sorcs still have a hard cc. AND people will still use CF for the CC to time their other burst.

The other morph will have builds made around it. you will survive, so dmg isnt going to be handed to you on a silver platter. We've sat by and watched patch after patch, no nerfs to sorcs and now you have one and ya'll cant handle it. typical. sory but not sorry.

Micah_Bayer

Rickter wrote: »

just like the first poster wrote: "probably for the same reason they did it to wrecking blow. They want you to chose between damage and CC."

And as stated sorcs still have a hard cc. AND people will still use CF for the CC to time their other burst.

The other morph will have builds made around it. you will survive, so dmg isnt going to be handed to you on a silver platter. We've sat by and watched patch after patch, no nerfs to sorcs and now you have one and ya'll cant handle it. typical. sory but not sorry.

Maybe because those who wished for the nerf to sorcs actually couldn't beat the class because you're bad. Ask any serious streamer or in any dueling guild with reputable people. No nerf was needed. They are balanced.

Rickter

Micah_Bayer wrote: »

Rickter wrote: »

just like the first poster wrote: "probably for the same reason they did it to wrecking blow. They want you to chose between damage and CC."

And as stated sorcs still have a hard cc. AND people will still use CF for the CC to time their other burst.

The other morph will have builds made around it. you will survive, so dmg isnt going to be handed to you on a silver platter. We've sat by and watched patch after patch, no nerfs to sorcs and now you have one and ya'll cant handle it. typical. sory but not sorry.

Maybe because those who wished for the nerf to sorcs actually couldn't beat the class because you're bad. Ask any serious streamer or in any dueling guild with reputable people. No nerf was needed. They are balanced.

Im not upset with a nerf to sorcs so im bad? hmm. thats interesting.

All im trying to say is that Uppercut underwent the exact same thing years ago. dmg vs cc. the dmg morph is rarely used because the cc was so important. I firmly believe the same will be the case here. The CC morph will still be used. Frags could be insta procced as well. Addons are made to tell you when to press the button. idk man, youre not going to get sympathy to me. i'm very narrow minded in that this is the exact same thing as Uppercut morphs.

Micah_Bayer

Rickter wrote: »

Micah_Bayer wrote: »

Rickter wrote: »

just like the first poster wrote: "probably for the same reason they did it to wrecking blow. They want you to chose between damage and CC."

And as stated sorcs still have a hard cc. AND people will still use CF for the CC to time their other burst.

The other morph will have builds made around it. you will survive, so dmg isnt going to be handed to you on a silver platter. We've sat by and watched patch after patch, no nerfs to sorcs and now you have one and ya'll cant handle it. typical. sory but not sorry.

Maybe because those who wished for the nerf to sorcs actually couldn't beat the class because you're bad. Ask any serious streamer or in any dueling guild with reputable people. No nerf was needed. They are balanced.

Im not upset with a nerf to sorcs so im bad? hmm. thats interesting.

All im trying to say is that Uppercut underwent the exact same thing years ago. dmg vs cc. the dmg morph is rarely used because the cc was so important. I firmly believe the same will be the case here. The CC morph will still be used. Frags could be insta procced as well. Addons are made to tell you when to press the button. idk man, youre not going to get sympathy to me. i'm very narrow minded in that this is the exact same thing as Uppercut morphs.

Uppercut is not a class ability. No one class got nerfed when uppercut . C frag is a sorcerer ability. Sorcerer is getting nerfed. NB has surprise attack. High dmg, stun in stealth. You have cloak you can stun more than frag and it's instsnt. All the time.

Mitrenga

OK, what are we nerfing today?

Micah_Bayer

Mitrenga wrote: »

OK, what are we nerfing today?

Crystal frag stun

Alpheu5

TheShadowScout wrote: »

But generally, when "everyone" uses one skill morph, and noone the other... that's a pretty good indication something is broken and needs fixing, buffing or nefring as they choose. This time, they nerfed.

In the end, things change.
Accept it.
Adapt to it.
Carry on gaming...

Generally when "everyone" uses one skill morph, it's because it's the most applicable thing in that scenario. Nobody competent uses Crystal Blast at an end-game PvE level because the cast time to damage ratio makes it useless, and nobody competent uses it in PvP because of the cast time itself. And don't try comparing it to Dark Flare because a simple knockdown is extremely inferior to AoE Major Defile and Empower. They could halve Frags' damage with the knockdown and it'd still be superior to Blast.

Micah_Bayer

Alpheu5 wrote: »

TheShadowScout wrote: »

But generally, when "everyone" uses one skill morph, and noone the other... that's a pretty good indication something is broken and needs fixing, buffing or nefring as they choose. This time, they nerfed.

In the end, things change.
Accept it.
Adapt to it.
Carry on gaming...

Generally when "everyone" uses one skill morph, it's because it's the most applicable thing in that scenario. Nobody competent uses Crystal Blast at an end-game PvE level because the cast time to damage ratio makes it useless, and nobody competent uses it in PvP because of the cast time itself. And don't try comparing it to Dark Flare because a simple knockdown is extremely inferior to AoE Major Defile and Empower. They could half Frags' damage with the knockdown and it'd still be superior to Blast.

Thank you

Micah_Bayer

TheShadowScout wrote: »

Micah_Bayer wrote: »

Why would you take the stun from frags away?

...because it was OP? I mean, that's usually the case when the nerfhammer strikes...

Oakmontowls_ESO wrote: »

probably for the same reason they did it to wrecking blow. They want you to chose between damage and CC.

Yeah, , and that makes for good choices. Choices are fun, having to see which advantage you want to go for, instead of getting them all...

Micah_Bayer wrote: »

Choose between the one other skill that no one uses?

HEY! I was using that one... (for fluff reasons, mostly)
But generally, when "everyone" uses one skill morph, and noone the other... that's a pretty good indication something is broken and needs fixing, buffing or nefring as they choose. This time, they nerfed.

In the end, things change.
Accept it.
Adapt to it.
Carry on gaming...

Except no one in the forums ever said frags was op til now

Vizier

About time Sorcs got the same treatment given NB for 3 years. Please just stop the whine. Sorcs have the most utility of any class with skills that have multiple uses...

...Just waiting for the day when Streak doesn't work until you break free of CC.

Micah_Bayer

Vizier wrote: »

About time Sorcs got the same treatment given NB for 3 years. Please just stop the whine. Sorcs have the most utility of any class with skills that have multiple uses...

...Just waiting for the day when Streak doesn't work until you break free of CC.

NB is the best class for PvP atm. Sorry you're bad.

Reverb

"Angry about having your stun taken away? The line starts back there." - Templars

Micah_Bayer

Reverb wrote: »

"Angry about having your stun taken away? The line starts back there." - Templars

Sorcs don't have a house to stand in to be op. Sorry we're at the front.

GrigorijMalahevich

Lexxypwns wrote: »

D0PAMINE wrote: »

It's frustrating to be hit with frags over and over again. I love the skill, but you get hit once, by the time youre getting up you can be hit by 2 or more, depending on how well the user can animation cancel. Its just a spammable with a cast time with a high chance to negate the cast.

actually, if you're using it as a spammable its got a 0% chance to proc an instant cast since it cannot proc itself lol. People...

Micah_Bayer wrote: »

Sigma957 wrote: »

It doesn't matter that they took away stun from frags as frags still can proc insta cast at reduced cost and hits a lot harder.

How does it hit a lot harder? Did they buff the dmg in place of removing the stun?

The proc'ed frag has always gotten a damage boost over hard casted. He's refering to the flavor text on the tooltip that says something along the lines of [chance to get an instant cast with X reduced cost and Y increased damage]. Technically he's right and the number one reason to run frag still exists - instant cast high damage proc. I agree with you that this nerf is absolutely not needed and its going to take utility away from the sorc in order to A: Sustain streak as your main CC B: run destructive reach C: run and sustain rune cage

Valera Progib wrote: »

Magsorc main - remove shieldstack, but for the love of god, stop this nonsense with crystal blasts buffs and frags nerfs...

Streak is not a reliable source of CC... Streak is broken. People that say "use streak for CC" should just intercourse themselves.

Solo play sorcs don't use rune prison, every experienced player uses defensive rune... To stop playing horse riding simulator and start fighting.

In reality, avarage magsorc has no CC now...
Smart, very smart.

Ironic - nobody is going to use crystal blast in PvE ir/and PvP... smart, very smart, totally on a different level.

Even if we close our eyes and pretend streak isn't buggy AF, let's talk about how you're supposed to sustain casting that every time you need to CC someone.

Its not like rune cage is a better option either since its expensive and requires you to lose a skill on your bars. Maybe they're just hoping all sorcs will sub a 3rd shield for rune cage? ZoS logic after all

Brother, I totally agree! Fixing streak should've been top priority before removing CC from frags... I struggle to find logic, specially because nothing will change towards crystal blast...

Defilted

What if

Crystal frags Long cast time or 35% chance to be instant with no stun
Crystal blast- cut the damage by 50%. Always an instant cast with a stun.

Urza1234

Micah_Bayer wrote: »

Rickter wrote: »

Micah_Bayer wrote: »

Rickter wrote: »

just like the first poster wrote: "probably for the same reason they did it to wrecking blow. They want you to chose between damage and CC."

And as stated sorcs still have a hard cc. AND people will still use CF for the CC to time their other burst.

The other morph will have builds made around it. you will survive, so dmg isnt going to be handed to you on a silver platter. We've sat by and watched patch after patch, no nerfs to sorcs and now you have one and ya'll cant handle it. typical. sory but not sorry.

Maybe because those who wished for the nerf to sorcs actually couldn't beat the class because you're bad. Ask any serious streamer or in any dueling guild with reputable people. No nerf was needed. They are balanced.

Im not upset with a nerf to sorcs so im bad? hmm. thats interesting.

All im trying to say is that Uppercut underwent the exact same thing years ago. dmg vs cc. the dmg morph is rarely used because the cc was so important. I firmly believe the same will be the case here. The CC morph will still be used. Frags could be insta procced as well. Addons are made to tell you when to press the button. idk man, youre not going to get sympathy to me. i'm very narrow minded in that this is the exact same thing as Uppercut morphs.

Uppercut is not a class ability. No one class got nerfed when uppercut . C frag is a sorcerer ability. Sorcerer is getting nerfed. NB has surprise attack. High dmg, stun in stealth. You have cloak you can stun more than frag and it's instsnt. All the time.

You do realize that sneak attacks arent class specific, the damage is reduced by impen, and that you cant use sneak attacks in combat?

If you're talking about literally combining the NB ability Surprise Attack combined with Shadowy Disguise...
1. The crit from shadowy disguise can be consumed by your DoTs
2. the crit is reduced by impen
3. Frags does 50% more damage than Surprise attack, not counting the extra 10% from the proc
4. Surprise Attack + Shadowy Disguise is hugely more resource intensive than Frags, because its combining 2 skills, once again not even counting the cost reduction from the Frags proc

So..... how exactly were you planning to garner sympathy from NBs?

Wreuntzylla

They should just leave everything the way it is and make reflect actually reflect the projectile with all of the damage potential imparted by the caster.

At some point it changed. Nowadays, if I could shoot myself, I would hit for 15-20k, whereas reflects hit me for 3-4k.

Xvorg

Dear sorcs, your are getting a 28mts petrify that procs frgs and allows you to land those frags easily. Just drop mages fury or curse

Waffennacht

Urza1234 wrote: »

Micah_Bayer wrote: »

Rickter wrote: »

Micah_Bayer wrote: »

Rickter wrote: »

just like the first poster wrote: "probably for the same reason they did it to wrecking blow. They want you to chose between damage and CC."

And as stated sorcs still have a hard cc. AND people will still use CF for the CC to time their other burst.

The other morph will have builds made around it. you will survive, so dmg isnt going to be handed to you on a silver platter. We've sat by and watched patch after patch, no nerfs to sorcs and now you have one and ya'll cant handle it. typical. sory but not sorry.

Maybe because those who wished for the nerf to sorcs actually couldn't beat the class because you're bad. Ask any serious streamer or in any dueling guild with reputable people. No nerf was needed. They are balanced.

Im not upset with a nerf to sorcs so im bad? hmm. thats interesting.

All im trying to say is that Uppercut underwent the exact same thing years ago. dmg vs cc. the dmg morph is rarely used because the cc was so important. I firmly believe the same will be the case here. The CC morph will still be used. Frags could be insta procced as well. Addons are made to tell you when to press the button. idk man, youre not going to get sympathy to me. i'm very narrow minded in that this is the exact same thing as Uppercut morphs.

Uppercut is not a class ability. No one class got nerfed when uppercut . C frag is a sorcerer ability. Sorcerer is getting nerfed. NB has surprise attack. High dmg, stun in stealth. You have cloak you can stun more than frag and it's instsnt. All the time.

You do realize that sneak attacks arent class specific, the damage is reduced by impen, and that you cant use sneak attacks in combat?

If you're talking about literally combining the NB ability Surprise Attack combined with Shadowy Disguise...
1. The crit from shadowy disguise can be consumed by your DoTs
2. the crit is reduced by impen
3. Frags does 50% more damage than Surprise attack, not counting the extra 10% from the proc
4. Surprise Attack + Shadowy Disguise is hugely more resource intensive than Frags, because its combining 2 skills, once again not even counting the cost reduction from the Frags proc

So..... how exactly were you planning to garner sympathy from NBs?

NBs are supposed to give sympathy because they are in a really stellar place right now.

Micah_Bayer

Urza1234 wrote: »

Micah_Bayer wrote: »

Rickter wrote: »

Micah_Bayer wrote: »

Rickter wrote: »

just like the first poster wrote: "probably for the same reason they did it to wrecking blow. They want you to chose between damage and CC."

And as stated sorcs still have a hard cc. AND people will still use CF for the CC to time their other burst.

The other morph will have builds made around it. you will survive, so dmg isnt going to be handed to you on a silver platter. We've sat by and watched patch after patch, no nerfs to sorcs and now you have one and ya'll cant handle it. typical. sory but not sorry.

Maybe because those who wished for the nerf to sorcs actually couldn't beat the class because you're bad. Ask any serious streamer or in any dueling guild with reputable people. No nerf was needed. They are balanced.

Im not upset with a nerf to sorcs so im bad? hmm. thats interesting.

All im trying to say is that Uppercut underwent the exact same thing years ago. dmg vs cc. the dmg morph is rarely used because the cc was so important. I firmly believe the same will be the case here. The CC morph will still be used. Frags could be insta procced as well. Addons are made to tell you when to press the button. idk man, youre not going to get sympathy to me. i'm very narrow minded in that this is the exact same thing as Uppercut morphs.

Uppercut is not a class ability. No one class got nerfed when uppercut . C frag is a sorcerer ability. Sorcerer is getting nerfed. NB has surprise attack. High dmg, stun in stealth. You have cloak you can stun more than frag and it's instsnt. All the time.

You do realize that sneak attacks arent class specific, the damage is reduced by impen, and that you cant use sneak attacks in combat?

If you're talking about literally combining the NB ability Surprise Attack combined with Shadowy Disguise...
1. The crit from shadowy disguise can be consumed by your DoTs
2. the crit is reduced by impen
3. Frags does 50% more damage than Surprise attack, not counting the extra 10% from the proc
4. Surprise Attack + Shadowy Disguise is hugely more resource intensive than Frags, because its combining 2 skills, once again not even counting the cost reduction from the Frags proc

So..... how exactly were you planning to garner sympathy from NBs?

I am not looking for sympathy. I am stating a fact. Use cloak an SA who cares if frags does more dmg. Hit a sorc in light it's equal dmg but SA is spammable frags is not.

Urza1234

Micah_Bayer wrote: »

Urza1234 wrote: »

Micah_Bayer wrote: »

Rickter wrote: »

Micah_Bayer wrote: »

Rickter wrote: »

just like the first poster wrote: "probably for the same reason they did it to wrecking blow. They want you to chose between damage and CC."

And as stated sorcs still have a hard cc. AND people will still use CF for the CC to time their other burst.

The other morph will have builds made around it. you will survive, so dmg isnt going to be handed to you on a silver platter. We've sat by and watched patch after patch, no nerfs to sorcs and now you have one and ya'll cant handle it. typical. sory but not sorry.

Maybe because those who wished for the nerf to sorcs actually couldn't beat the class because you're bad. Ask any serious streamer or in any dueling guild with reputable people. No nerf was needed. They are balanced.

Im not upset with a nerf to sorcs so im bad? hmm. thats interesting.

All im trying to say is that Uppercut underwent the exact same thing years ago. dmg vs cc. the dmg morph is rarely used because the cc was so important. I firmly believe the same will be the case here. The CC morph will still be used. Frags could be insta procced as well. Addons are made to tell you when to press the button. idk man, youre not going to get sympathy to me. i'm very narrow minded in that this is the exact same thing as Uppercut morphs.

Uppercut is not a class ability. No one class got nerfed when uppercut . C frag is a sorcerer ability. Sorcerer is getting nerfed. NB has surprise attack. High dmg, stun in stealth. You have cloak you can stun more than frag and it's instsnt. All the time.

You do realize that sneak attacks arent class specific, the damage is reduced by impen, and that you cant use sneak attacks in combat?

If you're talking about literally combining the NB ability Surprise Attack combined with Shadowy Disguise...
1. The crit from shadowy disguise can be consumed by your DoTs
2. the crit is reduced by impen
3. Frags does 50% more damage than Surprise attack, not counting the extra 10% from the proc
4. Surprise Attack + Shadowy Disguise is hugely more resource intensive than Frags, because its combining 2 skills, once again not even counting the cost reduction from the Frags proc

So..... how exactly were you planning to garner sympathy from NBs?

I am not looking for sympathy. I am stating a fact. Use cloak an SA who cares if frags does more dmg. Hit a sorc in light it's equal dmg but SA is spammable frags is not.

You, uh, cant spam stuns, cc immunity eh. None of the perks of Surprise attack are spammable. The only spammable part of Surprise Attack is as an LA weave damage filler, but at that point you're comparing apples and oranges.