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https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/8098811/#Comment_8098811
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https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/8098811/#Comment_8098811
Why would you take the stun from frags away?
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Micah_Bayer✭✭✭✭✭Micah_Bayer wrote: »Micah_Bayer wrote: »Micah_Bayer wrote: »just like the first poster wrote: "probably for the same reason they did it to wrecking blow. They want you to chose between damage and CC."
And as stated sorcs still have a hard cc. AND people will still use CF for the CC to time their other burst.
The other morph will have builds made around it. you will survive, so dmg isnt going to be handed to you on a silver platter. We've sat by and watched patch after patch, no nerfs to sorcs and now you have one and ya'll cant handle it. typical. sory but not sorry.
Maybe because those who wished for the nerf to sorcs actually couldn't beat the class because you're bad. Ask any serious streamer or in any dueling guild with reputable people. No nerf was needed. They are balanced.
Im not upset with a nerf to sorcs so im bad? hmm. thats interesting.
All im trying to say is that Uppercut underwent the exact same thing years ago. dmg vs cc. the dmg morph is rarely used because the cc was so important. I firmly believe the same will be the case here. The CC morph will still be used. Frags could be insta procced as well. Addons are made to tell you when to press the button. idk man, youre not going to get sympathy to me. i'm very narrow minded in that this is the exact same thing as Uppercut morphs.
Uppercut is not a class ability. No one class got nerfed when uppercut . C frag is a sorcerer ability. Sorcerer is getting nerfed. NB has surprise attack. High dmg, stun in stealth. You have cloak you can stun more than frag and it's instsnt. All the time.
You do realize that sneak attacks arent class specific, the damage is reduced by impen, and that you cant use sneak attacks in combat?
If you're talking about literally combining the NB ability Surprise Attack combined with Shadowy Disguise...
1. The crit from shadowy disguise can be consumed by your DoTs
2. the crit is reduced by impen
3. Frags does 50% more damage than Surprise attack, not counting the extra 10% from the proc
4. Surprise Attack + Shadowy Disguise is hugely more resource intensive than Frags, because its combining 2 skills, once again not even counting the cost reduction from the Frags proc
So..... how exactly were you planning to garner sympathy from NBs?
I am not looking for sympathy. I am stating a fact. Use cloak an SA who cares if frags does more dmg. Hit a sorc in light it's equal dmg but SA is spammable frags is not.
You, uh, cant spam stuns, cc immunity eh. None of the perks of Surprise attack are spammable. The only spammable part of Surprise Attack is as an LA weave damage filler, but at that point you're comparing apples and oranges.
Spammable attack. Not stun that is obvious.0 -
JamieAubrey wrote: »They should just scrap the whole game, take a year to fix fix and start from scratch
Or just remove ALL THE SKILLS NOONE USES
OR Buff the skills no one uses to be on par with their counter part
DONT nerf the skills people are using
Holly crap you must be a freaking genious, go fill out a application to be a dev right now0 -
Joy_Division✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭If you have to ask why frags is getting nerfed, you haven't been paying attention. In a way, I admire your blissful ignorance.
Ever since the champion system has been introduced, the primary means ZoS and Wrobel have used to reign in the disgusting amount of power in said Champion system (along with the usual power creep that comes from new content) is to take it away from our classes. Just look at this patch: NB fear, Templar purify, DK petrify, sorc Frag - all signature skills that we actually use, and all are getting nerfed.
That people would selflishly applaud and encourage such a dumb means of "balancing" a game because it's not their class or they aren't very good at this game and get killed by sorcs in PvP is mind-boggling. Apparently these people wont be satisfied until every class is stuck with garbage and boring abilities that are either impotent or have no counter-play.
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Micah_Bayer✭✭✭✭✭Joy_Division wrote: »If you have to ask why frags is getting nerfed, you haven't been paying attention. In a way, I admire your blissful ignorance.
Ever since the champion system has been introduced, the primary means ZoS and Wrobel have used to reign in the disgusting amount of power in said Champion system (along with the usual power creep that comes from new content) is to take it away from our classes. Just look at this patch: NB fear, Templar purify, DK petrify, sorc Frag - all signature skills that we actually use, and all are getting nerfed.
That people would selflishly applaud and encourage such a dumb means of "balancing" a game because it's not their class or they aren't very good at this game and get killed by sorcs in PvP is mind-boggling. Apparently these people wont be satisfied until every class is stuck with garbage and boring abilities that are either impotent or have no counter-play.
None of the skills you just listed do dmg except frags.0 -
Xvorg✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Micah_Bayer wrote: »Joy_Division wrote: »If you have to ask why frags is getting nerfed, you haven't been paying attention. In a way, I admire your blissful ignorance.
Ever since the champion system has been introduced, the primary means ZoS and Wrobel have used to reign in the disgusting amount of power in said Champion system (along with the usual power creep that comes from new content) is to take it away from our classes. Just look at this patch: NB fear, Templar purify, DK petrify, sorc Frag - all signature skills that we actually use, and all are getting nerfed.
That people would selflishly applaud and encourage such a dumb means of "balancing" a game because it's not their class or they aren't very good at this game and get killed by sorcs in PvP is mind-boggling. Apparently these people wont be satisfied until every class is stuck with garbage and boring abilities that are either impotent or have no counter-play.
None of the skills you just listed do dmg except frags.
Shattering rocks does dmg. Nevertheless, what Joy is trying to explain is that some CCs (DK, NB and sorc) are being nerfed. In the case of Sorcs, the stun of frags is getting the nerf hammer to make Rune cage a more appealing option... similar to what they did with Petrify and Stonefist in the DK set.
In the case of Temps... well ZoS is making warden healer a more appealing option by nerfing Temps... and this is not the first nerf they got since warden came out.Sarcasm is something too serious to be taken lightly
I was born with the wrong sign
In the wrong house
With the wrong ascendancy
I took the wrong road
That led to the wrong tendencies
I was in the wrong place at the wrong time
For the wrong reason and the wrong rhyme
On the wrong day of the wrong week
Used the wrong method with the wrong technique0 -
teladoy✭✭✭✭✭I don't understand why if they remove the stun they don't put something else, like more damage.0 -
Xvorg✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I don't understand why if they remove the stun they don't put something else, like more damage.
What I don't understand is why they reduced the range of petrify from 15 mts to 8 mts, making it almost the same than talons.
Sarcasm is something too serious to be taken lightly
I was born with the wrong sign
In the wrong house
With the wrong ascendancy
I took the wrong road
That led to the wrong tendencies
I was in the wrong place at the wrong time
For the wrong reason and the wrong rhyme
On the wrong day of the wrong week
Used the wrong method with the wrong technique0 -
Yolokin_Swagonborn✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Micah_Bayer wrote: »Joy_Division wrote: »If you have to ask why frags is getting nerfed, you haven't been paying attention. In a way, I admire your blissful ignorance.
Ever since the champion system has been introduced, the primary means ZoS and Wrobel have used to reign in the disgusting amount of power in said Champion system (along with the usual power creep that comes from new content) is to take it away from our classes. Just look at this patch: NB fear, Templar purify, DK petrify, sorc Frag - all signature skills that we actually use, and all are getting nerfed.
That people would selflishly applaud and encourage such a dumb means of "balancing" a game because it's not their class or they aren't very good at this game and get killed by sorcs in PvP is mind-boggling. Apparently these people wont be satisfied until every class is stuck with garbage and boring abilities that are either impotent or have no counter-play.
None of the skills you just listed do dmg except frags.
And? How is that responsive to what @Joy_Division said? We are talking about classic, iconic class skills. Not every powerful skill does damage, but they make a class more powerful. Besides, ZOS isn't removing any damage (this time) from frags, just removing utility. The end result is the same. Class skills are getting weaker to pay for the damage caused by the champion system.1 -
SanTii.92✭✭✭✭✭
✭
No one in their right mind will use Crysal Blast. Rickter please.
I firmly believe the same will be the case here. The CC morph will still be used. Frags could be insta procced as well. Addons are made to tell you when to press the button. idk man, youre not going to get sympathy to me. i'm very narrow minded in that this is the exact same thing as Uppercut morphs.Micah_Bayer wrote: »just like the first poster wrote: "probably for the same reason they did it to wrecking blow. They want you to chose between damage and CC."
And as stated sorcs still have a hard cc. AND people will still use CF for the CC to time their other burst.
The other morph will have builds made around it. you will survive, so dmg isnt going to be handed to you on a silver platter. We've sat by and watched patch after patch, no nerfs to sorcs and now you have one and ya'll cant handle it. typical. sory but not sorry.
Maybe because those who wished for the nerf to sorcs actually couldn't beat the class because you're bad. Ask any serious streamer or in any dueling guild with reputable people. No nerf was needed. They are balanced.
When the snows fall and the white winds blow,
the lone wolf dies, but the pack survives.
Arg | Pc Na | Factionless Mag Warden.0 -
Micah_Bayer✭✭✭✭✭
No one in their right mind will use Crysal Blast. Rickter please.
I firmly believe the same will be the case here. The CC morph will still be used. Frags could be insta procced as well. Addons are made to tell you when to press the button. idk man, youre not going to get sympathy to me. i'm very narrow minded in that this is the exact same thing as Uppercut morphs.Micah_Bayer wrote: »just like the first poster wrote: "probably for the same reason they did it to wrecking blow. They want you to chose between damage and CC."
And as stated sorcs still have a hard cc. AND people will still use CF for the CC to time their other burst.
The other morph will have builds made around it. you will survive, so dmg isnt going to be handed to you on a silver platter. We've sat by and watched patch after patch, no nerfs to sorcs and now you have one and ya'll cant handle it. typical. sory but not sorry.
Maybe because those who wished for the nerf to sorcs actually couldn't beat the class because you're bad. Ask any serious streamer or in any dueling guild with reputable people. No nerf was needed. They are balanced.
Thank you0 -
Micah_Bayer✭✭✭✭✭Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »Micah_Bayer wrote: »Joy_Division wrote: »If you have to ask why frags is getting nerfed, you haven't been paying attention. In a way, I admire your blissful ignorance.
Ever since the champion system has been introduced, the primary means ZoS and Wrobel have used to reign in the disgusting amount of power in said Champion system (along with the usual power creep that comes from new content) is to take it away from our classes. Just look at this patch: NB fear, Templar purify, DK petrify, sorc Frag - all signature skills that we actually use, and all are getting nerfed.
That people would selflishly applaud and encourage such a dumb means of "balancing" a game because it's not their class or they aren't very good at this game and get killed by sorcs in PvP is mind-boggling. Apparently these people wont be satisfied until every class is stuck with garbage and boring abilities that are either impotent or have no counter-play.
None of the skills you just listed do dmg except frags.
And? How is that responsive to what @Joy_Division said? We are talking about classic, iconic class skills. Not every powerful skill does damage, but they make a class more powerful. Besides, ZOS isn't removing any damage (this time) from frags, just removing utility. The end result is the same. Class skills are getting weaker to pay for the damage caused by the champion system.
Because in pvp which I do most of my time. I'd rather a utility skill be nerfed than my main source of dmg.0 -
Arkangeloski✭✭✭✭Micah_Bayer wrote: »Micah_Bayer wrote: »Micah_Bayer wrote: »just like the first poster wrote: "probably for the same reason they did it to wrecking blow. They want you to chose between damage and CC."
And as stated sorcs still have a hard cc. AND people will still use CF for the CC to time their other burst.
The other morph will have builds made around it. you will survive, so dmg isnt going to be handed to you on a silver platter. We've sat by and watched patch after patch, no nerfs to sorcs and now you have one and ya'll cant handle it. typical. sory but not sorry.
Maybe because those who wished for the nerf to sorcs actually couldn't beat the class because you're bad. Ask any serious streamer or in any dueling guild with reputable people. No nerf was needed. They are balanced.
Im not upset with a nerf to sorcs so im bad? hmm. thats interesting.
All im trying to say is that Uppercut underwent the exact same thing years ago. dmg vs cc. the dmg morph is rarely used because the cc was so important. I firmly believe the same will be the case here. The CC morph will still be used. Frags could be insta procced as well. Addons are made to tell you when to press the button. idk man, youre not going to get sympathy to me. i'm very narrow minded in that this is the exact same thing as Uppercut morphs.
Uppercut is not a class ability. No one class got nerfed when uppercut . C frag is a sorcerer ability. Sorcerer is getting nerfed. NB has surprise attack. High dmg, stun in stealth. You have cloak you can stun more than frag and it's instsnt. All the time.
You do realize that sneak attacks arent class specific, the damage is reduced by impen, and that you cant use sneak attacks in combat?
If you're talking about literally combining the NB ability Surprise Attack combined with Shadowy Disguise...
1. The crit from shadowy disguise can be consumed by your DoTs
2. the crit is reduced by impen
3. Frags does 50% more damage than Surprise attack, not counting the extra 10% from the proc
4. Surprise Attack + Shadowy Disguise is hugely more resource intensive than Frags, because its combining 2 skills, once again not even counting the cost reduction from the Frags proc
So..... how exactly were you planning to garner sympathy from NBs?
I am not looking for sympathy. I am stating a fact. Use cloak an SA who cares if frags does more dmg. Hit a sorc in light it's equal dmg but SA is spammable frags is not.
Frags can be casted with your rotation at a safe distance while camping on mines lol, SA needs to be up close n personal and puting you at risk at the same time, try n suprise atack a sorc sitting in mines then u can come n make your little argument mate.0 -
Joy_Division✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Micah_Bayer wrote: »Joy_Division wrote: »If you have to ask why frags is getting nerfed, you haven't been paying attention. In a way, I admire your blissful ignorance.
Ever since the champion system has been introduced, the primary means ZoS and Wrobel have used to reign in the disgusting amount of power in said Champion system (along with the usual power creep that comes from new content) is to take it away from our classes. Just look at this patch: NB fear, Templar purify, DK petrify, sorc Frag - all signature skills that we actually use, and all are getting nerfed.
That people would selflishly applaud and encourage such a dumb means of "balancing" a game because it's not their class or they aren't very good at this game and get killed by sorcs in PvP is mind-boggling. Apparently these people wont be satisfied until every class is stuck with garbage and boring abilities that are either impotent or have no counter-play.
None of the skills you just listed do dmg except frags.
@Yolokin_Swagonborn is 100% correct.
So what exactly are you saying? The other class nerfs are ok because they don't do damage, but the sorc nerf is uncalled for (even though they didn't touch the damage). Doesn't work that way. We get nerfed. So do you. Have fun playing ESO.0 -
SirMewser✭✭✭✭✭Micah_Bayer wrote: »If anything nerf the shields. This is coming from a sorc main.
As much as I want to agree with nerfing shields, I blame part of it on CP, in no CP pvp shields seem fine, shield stacking can still be annoying sure...
If anything does happen to them, I do not want it to be affecting pets in PvE, as reactive shielding does NOT work.
I am happy with the stun being removed from C frags because at least that provides an option, the class is easy to play as is, there are still morphs that are undermined.
Step in the right direction, more will need to happen.Edited by SirMewser on October 18, 2017 11:26PM1 -
Micah_Bayer✭✭✭✭✭Micah_Bayer wrote: »If anything nerf the shields. This is coming from a sorc main.
As much as I want to agree with nerfing shields, I blame part of it on CP, in no CP pvp shields seem fine, shield stacking can still be annoying sure...
If anything does happen to them, I do not want it to be affecting pets in PvE, as reactive shielding does NOT work.
I am happy with the stun being removed from C frags because at least that provides an option, the class is easy to play as is, there are still morphs that are undermined.
Step in the right direction, more will need to happen.
Sorcs all ready have too many toggles. Sorcs don't have many attack spells a valuable to put on the bar due to toggles. You cannot take the cc off without buffing the skill itself. There is a poll and 92% would never use Crystal blast.0 -
Micah_Bayer✭✭✭✭✭Joy_Division wrote: »Micah_Bayer wrote: »Joy_Division wrote: »If you have to ask why frags is getting nerfed, you haven't been paying attention. In a way, I admire your blissful ignorance.
Ever since the champion system has been introduced, the primary means ZoS and Wrobel have used to reign in the disgusting amount of power in said Champion system (along with the usual power creep that comes from new content) is to take it away from our classes. Just look at this patch: NB fear, Templar purify, DK petrify, sorc Frag - all signature skills that we actually use, and all are getting nerfed.
That people would selflishly applaud and encourage such a dumb means of "balancing" a game because it's not their class or they aren't very good at this game and get killed by sorcs in PvP is mind-boggling. Apparently these people wont be satisfied until every class is stuck with garbage and boring abilities that are either impotent or have no counter-play.
None of the skills you just listed do dmg except frags.
@Yolokin_Swagonborn is 100% correct.
So what exactly are you saying? The other class nerfs are ok because they don't do damage, but the sorc nerf is uncalled for (even though they didn't touch the damage). Doesn't work that way. We get nerfed. So do you. Have fun playing ESO.
I'd rather a utility be nerfed than a dmg skill. Look at the poll in the forums. 92% don't agree with you0 -
AcadianPaladin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Yeah, they removed the stun from my magplar's shards because shards (Blazing Spear) did such massive damage. . . oh, wait. Well, no worries, she lost her major mending to help compensate . . . oh, wait. . . . So the Templar nerfs must have been to offset the wonderful mobility she has with her glued to the ground auras. . . oh, wait again. . . .
Most efforts to 'balance' things are BS because it is simply a law of nature that good players kill stuff better than poor players - and they haven't exactly figured out how to nerf good players . . . yet. Lol.Edited by AcadianPaladin on October 20, 2017 12:22AMPC NA(no Steam), PvE, mostly solo0 -
Ocelot9x✭✭✭✭When I'm on my msorc i feel like the stun from c frag helps my enemy more than me providing him cc immunity; the perfect sorc burst is curse,fury,dawnbreaker,frag and boom. Ofc,the stun is nice when pressuring,but you can stun with streak so I see no problem.
Definitely a nerf but probably a buff to msorc knights here on the forum (if you get what I mean)0 -
Urza1234✭✭✭✭When I'm on my msorc i feel like the stun from c frag helps my enemy more than me providing him cc immunity; the perfect sorc burst is curse,fury,dawnbreaker,frag and boom. Ofc,the stun is nice when pressuring,but you can stun with streak so I see no problem.
Definitely a nerf but probably a buff to msorc knights here on the forum (if you get what I mean)
I do see what you mean.0 -
MehrunesFlagon✭✭✭✭✭
✭TheShadowScout wrote: »But generally, when "everyone" uses one skill morph, and noone the other... that's a pretty good indication something is broken and needs fixing, buffing or nefring as they choose. This time, they nerfed.
In the end, things change.
Accept it.
Adapt to it.
Carry on gaming...
Generally when "everyone" uses one skill morph, it's because it's the most applicable thing in that scenario. Nobody competent uses Crystal Blast at an end-game PvE level because the cast time to damage ratio makes it useless, and nobody competent uses it in PvP because of the cast time itself. And don't try comparing it to Dark Flare because a simple knockdown is extremely inferior to AoE Major Defile and Empower. They could halve Frags' damage with the knockdown and it'd still be superior to Blast.
Nobody competent uses Crystal Blast at an end-game PvE level.Should read: Nobody competent uses crystal blast period.0 -
Micah_Bayer✭✭✭✭✭Sorcs will still have 6 different cc skills available to them, but now they will have to manage their resources, morphs, and bar slots more carefully.
If your really having that much trouble with the change then try playing a templar or warden. They only have 2 cc skills available and they usually miss, cause a load screen, or send you flying to your death through the map.
And no this isn't a nerf sorc post, I'm actually playing one as I type. Having an unblockable, undodgeable stun being added versus losing it on the frags morph seems like a win to me. Not to mention we still have a nice shield available if we want to wear heavy armour. Still so many options for sorcs, make it work.
Take fine cage then and give the cc to frags. No one would complain0 -
pieratsos✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Lol to the people comparing wrecking blow-dizzying swing with crystal blast-crystal frags.
Its really astonishing how clueless some people are.1