High DPS. But how?

Zimbugga

I have seen people, who say they do 41k to target skeletons and dwemers, but how? How did you test your damage?

My best damage is 15k to veteran target skeleton (not hard mode) under 4 minutes. I always kill that whole skeleton alone without extra buffs. I do that, because it gives you most realistic result. It makes you think how you keep your resourcers high. I use potions too when I'm doing test.

Jawasa

Most people probably do the same as you. A 3 Mill or 6 Mill skeleton self buffed with potions.

Asmael

The most commonly used testing conditions are:

• Starting the fight with full ultimate
• Using potions
• Having someone providing Major Fracture / Breach (especially Elemental Drain), orbs as an option (mostly for magicka) - possibly Worm's cult as well for magicka DDs, but no other damage buff (not even Minor Berzerk from Combat prayer).
• Ideally with 6m HP target dummies if your DPS is high enough, as it simulates the resource strain you'd encounter in a static trial fight much better than the 3m one.

As for your DPS, we'll need to know a lot more about your class, rotation, gear, food, mundus, race, potions used (just in case) to help you increasing it.

Marabornwingrion

Zimbugga wrote: »

I have seen people, who say they do 41k to target skeletons and dwemers, but how?

- Lover Mundus
- Penetration cap
- Prismatic Enchant on weapon
- Deadric Tombs etc

Cheese, cheese for everyone!

Liofa

Most importantly , you need to know standart DPS results of your class . For example , Stamina Nightblades can do 50k DPS on a 3m dummy while Magicka Templars hardly reach 38-40k .

You also need to know what kind of support you need . Magicka Dragonknights cannot do a proper parse without someone else applying Minor Vulnerability and Off-Balance .

Also know that dummy tests don't mean much . While a Stamina Nightblade hits 45-50k on dummy , a Stamina Dragonknight will hit around 35-40k . That doesn't mean Stamina Nightblade is stronger . Most likely , Stamina Dragonknight will do higher DPS in a raid .

What you should do is , let's say you are a Magicka Sorcerer , looking at other Magicka Sorcerer's parses and look if they cheesed it or not . For example , Lover stone is definition of cheese while it is next to useless in a raid . You also need to look at their Resource Regen/Drain rate . If Drain is significantly higher than Regen , that means they are using a rotation that is not sustainable in a long combat , which are very common in raids as some fights can take 7-10 minutes .

Hope this helps . Good luck

SoLooney

Astrid_V wrote: »

Zimbugga wrote: »

I have seen people, who say they do 41k to target skeletons and dwemers, but how?

- Lover Mundus
- Penetration cap
- Prismatic Enchant on weapon
- Deadric Tombs etc

Cheese, cheese for everyone!

i can achieve 41 to 42k without any cheese other than the lover mundus

using apprentice, i can still get 39 to 40k dps on my mag sorc

if you cheese that hard and only get 41k, thats actually pitiful, esp with mines

Liofa wrote: »

Most importantly , you need to know standart DPS results of your class . For example , Stamina Nightblades can do 50k DPS on a 3m dummy while Magicka Templars hardly reach 38-40k .

You also need to know what kind of support you need . Magicka Dragonknights cannot do a proper parse without someone else applying Minor Vulnerability and Off-Balance .

Also know that dummy tests don't mean much . While a Stamina Nightblade hits 45-50k on dummy , a Stamina Dragonknight will hit around 35-40k . That doesn't mean Stamina Nightblade is stronger . Most likely , Stamina Dragonknight will do higher DPS in a raid .

What you should do is , let's say you are a Magicka Sorcerer , looking at other Magicka Sorcerer's parses and look if they cheesed it or not . For example , Lover stone is definition of cheese while it is next to useless in a raid . You also need to look at their Resource Regen/Drain rate . If Drain is significantly higher than Regen , that means they are using a rotation that is not sustainable in a long combat , which are very common in raids as some fights can take 7-10 minutes .

Hope this helps . Good luck

the reason stamblades get really high parses is because they have their own major fracture from their spammable and access to minor berserk. also, it is also being really lucky with crits. in a raid environment, stam dks will out parse stamblades and probably stamplars as well

how is drain a cheese? healers apply it to bosses, so youre gonna get that resource back in a raid setting anyways

guilds and people have their own idea of what an acceptable parse is whether it is self buffed, with lover mundus, major breach and fracture, crusher enchant, minor vulnerability and wall. aka mag dks cant parse well without that shock wall

dummy tests dont mean much tbh, its cool to parse high, but your raid buffed dps is what matters most. how hard your 12 man team hits the centurion dummy gives a good idea

Defilted

Practice rotation and tweak. Try different gear sets and see if you DPS goes up or down so on and so on. It does not matter what the numbers are on the DPS dummy. As long as you can make it go up over time with practice and tweaking it is all good.

In a trial or dungeon you are going to get additional buffs from other players so you will perform better, but overall your responsibility is your own buffs and rotation so really that is all you need to be concerned with. Until you know the boss fight like the back of your hand you are not going to see maximum DPS becasue you are going to be moving around all the time.

So you target dummy self buffed is 30K. Trial it is 45K becasue of more penetration and other players buffs. The numbers matter and do not matter at the same time. The dummy will let you know where you stand if you are playing your class effectively but at the same time the number is just a marker to let you know how you are performing.

All I am saying is take the numbers on your test dummy lightly and do not be so concerned with the actual number, just be concerned that the number is going up over time through practice.

Qbiken

When you see those "NMG+2Fanged+Kragh + Lover" users (stamDK) bragging about 42k dps on a target skelly I`m like........lel, you´ll never bring that to a trial....

In my opinion these things should always be in a dps test:
For stamina users: Major Fracture. Optional/situational: Shards
For magicka users: Elemental Drain Optional/situational: Lightning wall, Worm, Orbs

These things can be applied/present and you can still call the dps-test "Selfbuffed". Selfbuffed doesn't mean you´ve to apply all debuffs by yourself.

A few things to keep in mind:
* Bring the same gear/barsetup/mundusstone to the dps-test as you would bring to a trial/dungeon. If you are going to use vigor in a trial to increase your surviveability, it should be slotted during your dps test as well.
* Rotation is very important: I managed to improve my dps on my stamDK by 5k (went from 31k to 36k) just by practicing my rotation.

code65536

SoLooney wrote: »

how is drain a cheese?

No, he didn't mean external ele drain--that is standard in proper dummy parses. He meant the Regen/s and Drain/s numbers in Combat Metrics. A 40K sorc parse will usually have something like a 500 or higher difference between the Regen/s and Drain/s stats, which means it's not a sustainable parse. I.e., if they tried to do it on a 6M dummy, their numbers would be much lower. It means that they started the parse with a full mag bar and ended it dry.

FakeFox

Zimbugga wrote: »

veteran target skeleton (not hard mode)

What are you even talking about? All target skeletons, centurions and what not are the same, just with different amounts of HP.

So, as mentioned above you should be focusing on getting high DPS in actual fights and not on the skeleton. However the skeleton is a good way to test certain things and practice your rotation. DPS consists out of three parts (that you can control) in my opinion.

- gear, CP, skills
- rotation
- general gameplay (weaving, canceling, movement, etc.)

If you fail in one of them you don't get good DPS. So first of all you should optimize your gear, CP and skills. So look at guides maybe, calculate your penetration and make sure you have all the important passives. Once you have that done and your build can in theory do good DPS you have to practice it. Get your self a good rotation, if you aren't experienced enough to come up with your own look at some guides. Practice that rotation until you know it by heart and can pull it off no matter how hectic a fight gets. Once you got that down learn to optimize it by practising weaving in LA and HA and cancelling animations when you can. If you are on PC you should get the addon Combat Metrics so you can check your uptimes and weaving so you know where you can improve.

vovus69

Keep in mind your machine and latency between you and server. Anybody with semi - decent machine can get to 15k dps. After that it is question to minmax (but you will not be able to get higher than 20k if you have 20fps) and machine/latency.
To get to the top you will need 60+ fps and less than 60ms latency. Those are the limits after 20k dps, not the equipment or game technique. So, the real top scores are for the guys with good machines sitting near the servers. Your game technique and minmax equipment can you get you only to some point, after that you should have good machine and , ideally, be on the good network to the server.

-vovus

SirAndy

Asmael wrote: »

[*] Having someone providing Major Fracture / Breach (especially Elemental Drain), orbs as an option (mostly for magicka) - possibly Worm's cult as well for magicka DDs, but no other damage buff (not even Minor Berzerk from Combat prayer).

That's the part a lot of people don't understand.
Most players showing off their high DPS numbers won't tell you that they had help.

They call it "self buffed" when in reality it is anything but ...

WatchYourSixx

@vovus69 your machine does not impact your ability to dps as much as you suggest. The biggest impact would be latency, and ive seen Aussies playing on the NA server pull well over 30k DPS and they naturally have *** ping. I almost always have 20 fps or less and still manage over 35k dps in trials. And that's usually with subpar group buffs. Now, if you're getting 5-10 fps or 500+ ping then sure, your dps will suffer.

vovus69

35k dps in trials mean ~20-25k self buffed max. So I was right

-vovus

FakeFox

vovus69 wrote: »

Keep in mind your machine and latency between you and server. Anybody with semi - decent machine can get to 15k dps. After that it is question to minmax (but you will not be able to get higher than 20k if you have 20fps) and machine/latency.
To get to the top you will need 60+ fps and less than 60ms latency. Those are the limits after 20k dps, not the equipment or game technique. So, the real top scores are for the guys with good machines sitting near the servers. Your game technique and minmax equipment can you get you only to some point, after that you should have good machine and , ideally, be on the good network to the server.

-vovus

So thats why people do 40k+ on PTS with 500 ping. But for real, this is a factor, but not that important.

Crom_CCCXVI

Don't forget most people are lying...

When someone tells me there stam character burns down a target dummy with 50k per sec, it seems they never have the video.

Mureel

WatchYourSixx wrote: »

@vovus69 your machine does not impact your ability to dps as much as you suggest. The biggest impact would be latency, and ive seen Aussies playing on the NA server pull well over 30k DPS and they naturally have *** ping. I almost always have 20 fps or less and still manage over 35k dps in trials. And that's usually with subpar group buffs. Now, if you're getting 5-10 fps or 500+ ping then sure, your dps will suffer.

Magblades latency - over 100ms light/siphon weave goes to hell.

Vaoh

People really need to stop caring about those numbers.....

Use it to test stuff *comparatively*. You can do this by seeing how much your damage changes when trying different gear, rotations, and when testing how much each buff increases your damage. It helps you determine what is essentially BiS for your character.

Are you performing your rotation consistently and without mistakes? Can you do it without looking at your add-ons? Can you replicate it in a trial? Can you replicate it in lag? Can you replicate it while performing mechanics?

All of these things actually matter when you’re running a trial. Who cares if you can pull big numbers by cheesing a target dummy using a build made to look strong against target dummies when it sucks in trials and you can’t even replicate your rotation in combat+constantly die.

Mureel

Vaoh wrote: »

People really need to stop caring about those numbers.....

Use it to test stuff *comparatively*. You can do this by seeing how much your damage changes when trying different gear, rotations, and when testing how much each buff increases your damage. It helps you determine what is essentially BiS for your character.

Are you performing your rotation consistently and without mistakes? Can you do it without looking at your add-ons? Can you replicate it in a trial? Can you replicate it in lag? Can you replicate it while performing mechanics?

All of these things actually matter when you’re running a trial. Who cares if you can pull big numbers by cheesing a target dummy using a build made to look strong against target dummies when it sucks in trials and you can’t even replicate your rotation in combat+constantly die.

This - but so many guilds REALLY DO require an insane skeleton parse. I think the % group DPS you are doing is a far better tell of where you really are.

Lots of people talk a LOT of garbage; but I have been to Pledges with several of these 'high dps skelly' guys and when I am pulling 60%+ group dps - and my DPS is really only average - well something ain't right. Some guys GENUINELY have very high DPS that is true. Just nowhere near the number people would like you to think!

Vaoh

Mureel wrote: »

Vaoh wrote: »

People really need to stop caring about those numbers.....

Use it to test stuff *comparatively*. You can do this by seeing how much your damage changes when trying different gear, rotations, and when testing how much each buff increases your damage. It helps you determine what is essentially BiS for your character.

Are you performing your rotation consistently and without mistakes? Can you do it without looking at your add-ons? Can you replicate it in a trial? Can you replicate it in lag? Can you replicate it while performing mechanics?

All of these things actually matter when you’re running a trial. Who cares if you can pull big numbers by cheesing a target dummy using a build made to look strong against target dummies when it sucks in trials and you can’t even replicate your rotation in combat+constantly die.

This - but so many guilds REALLY DO require an insane skeleton parse. I think the % group DPS you are doing is a far better tell of where you really are.

Lots of people talk a LOT of garbage; but I have been to Pledges with several of these 'high dps skelly' guys and when I am pulling 60%+ group dps - and my DPS is really only average - well something ain't right. Some guys GENUINELY have very high DPS that is true. Just nowhere near the number people would like you to think!

The difference in DPS between a target skeleton build and a trial build is pretty huge. I can make Magicka Wardens look strong against a target skeleton lol.

As a rule of thumb, any guild that cares enough of target skeleton parses is probably a joke to begin with. That kinda sums up a lot of guilds unfortunately but it is what it is

On console it is more acceptable. PC players have add-ons though that display parses against bosses in actual raids. These are usually great indicators.

SodanTok

Vaoh wrote: »

Mureel wrote: »

Vaoh wrote: »

People really need to stop caring about those numbers.....

Use it to test stuff *comparatively*. You can do this by seeing how much your damage changes when trying different gear, rotations, and when testing how much each buff increases your damage. It helps you determine what is essentially BiS for your character.

Are you performing your rotation consistently and without mistakes? Can you do it without looking at your add-ons? Can you replicate it in a trial? Can you replicate it in lag? Can you replicate it while performing mechanics?

All of these things actually matter when you’re running a trial. Who cares if you can pull big numbers by cheesing a target dummy using a build made to look strong against target dummies when it sucks in trials and you can’t even replicate your rotation in combat+constantly die.

This - but so many guilds REALLY DO require an insane skeleton parse. I think the % group DPS you are doing is a far better tell of where you really are.

Lots of people talk a LOT of garbage; but I have been to Pledges with several of these 'high dps skelly' guys and when I am pulling 60%+ group dps - and my DPS is really only average - well something ain't right. Some guys GENUINELY have very high DPS that is true. Just nowhere near the number people would like you to think!

The difference in DPS between a target skeleton build and a trial build is pretty huge. I can make Magicka Wardens look strong against a target skeleton lol.

As a rule of thumb, any guild that cares enough of target skeleton parses is probably a joke to begin with. That kinda sums up a lot of guilds unfortunately but it is what it is

On console it is more acceptable. PC players have add-ons though that display parses against bosses in actual raids. These are usually great indicators.

It is huge. Thats why getting high dummy DPS does not mean you will have great performance in real combat too, but if you get bad DPS even on stationary dummy, you for sure wont magically get good in real combat.

DeHei

Zimbugga wrote: »

I have seen people, who say they do 41k to target skeletons and dwemers, but how? How did you test your damage?

My best damage is 15k to veteran target skeleton (not hard mode) under 4 minutes. I always kill that whole skeleton alone without extra buffs. I do that, because it gives you most realistic result. It makes you think how you keep your resourcers high. I use potions too when I'm doing test.

Do you use animation cancelling good enough? This is important for DPS!
With a good build you deal nearly 10k DPS just with spamming light attacks... 15k you can do with light attacks and just placing skills. With a common and easy rotation you will allready hit 20-25k DPS very easy. 30k+ DPS you should reach with good gear and build. Alcast does post good working builds on nearly every class. Its easy to do similar DPS just with copy this builds.

MyrddinEmrys

For the longest time, I was really worried that I was doing something VERY wrong with my MagSorc, because on a good day, I would get 25k DPS on a target dummy, 30k if I got lucky with CF, crits, and I remembered to keep my DOTs up during execute. Then after doing a lot of vet hard mode content, I realized that if my DPS was that low, there was no way we would be completing the bosses as quickly as we were, especially when the other DPS was spending over half the fight dead because he didn't have enough health. So I did a little math (Im on xbox so live parses are not a thing), and discovered that my DPS was actually, at a minimum, 43k DPS (Of course, this was with buffs/debufs as well).

TL;DR - Its not all about the dummy DPS. Your ability to be a good player is WAY more than that one number.

PS - Also, remember that its not all about Single Target DPS either. Being able to clear trash mobs quickly in vet trials makes a HUGE difference.

Drummerx04

SoLooney wrote: »

Astrid_V wrote: »

- Lover Mundus
- Penetration cap
- Prismatic Enchant on weapon
- Deadric Tombs etc

Cheese, cheese for everyone!

i can achieve 41 to 42k without any cheese other than the lover mundus

using apprentice, i can still get 39 to 40k dps on my mag sorc

if you cheese that hard and only get 41k, thats actually pitiful, esp with mines

42k on magsorc? Using what, a necro netch double pet HA build? Cause that sounds like cheese to me.

vovus69

So thats why people do 40k+ on PTS with 500 ping. But for real, this is a factor, but not that important.[/quote]

This is BS. Show me 500 latency, 15-20fps and 40k dps . When you have 15-20fps it means that you don't have enough RAM on the machine and in quick and fast situations like battle, part of your rotation will go to hell and NOT executed. And with 500 latency, you will have ~10k-15k max. Otherwise - bring the video.

-vovus

Drummerx04

MyrddinEmrys wrote: »

For the longest time, I was really worried that I was doing something VERY wrong with my MagSorc, because on a good day, I would get 25k DPS on a target dummy, 30k if I got lucky with CF, crits, and I remembered to keep my DOTs up during execute. Then after doing a lot of vet hard mode content, I realized that if my DPS was that low, there was no way we would be completing the bosses as quickly as we were, especially when the other DPS was spending over half the fight dead because he didn't have enough health. So I did a little math (Im on xbox so live parses are not a thing), and discovered that my DPS was actually, at a minimum, 43k DPS (Of course, this was with buffs/debufs as well).

TL;DR - Its not all about the dummy DPS. Your ability to be a good player is WAY more than that one number.

PS - Also, remember that its not all about Single Target DPS either. Being able to clear trash mobs quickly in vet trials makes a HUGE difference.

I would be careful about drawing those conclusions. If your average magsorc parse on a dummy is a little over 25k, then you aren't suddenly doing 43k minimum on a trials boss. A more likely situation if you have a couple good stam dps in group is that they are actually pulling around 50k single target over the entire fight even WITH a death or two.

Bosses often move, you need to break rotation to shield/avoid something/handle a mechanic, ping spikes/lag, etc. All these things affect your parse. With perfect uptime of trial buffs, being very generous, I'd say as a magsorc you'll get maybe a 30-40% dps increase, or in your case 32-35k single target.

You are however correct that good AoE damage to clear adds quickly is very important and should not be undervalued.

I do not mean to put you down, it sounds like you have an excellent survival rate in trials which imo is an extremely overlooked ability. I just don't want you to get complacent and find yourself in situations where people kick you from guilds because you don't want to run a pet.

kylewwefan

The skeleton is a great indicator. My guild uses it to prep players for vet trials. The big numbers are cool and all, but really there are plenty of players that don’t have any real kind of rotation and need practice.

Many even have cool titles like Ophidian Overlord, Mageslayer and most commonly Shehai ***.

Sit down wit a dummy. Start out a 7K DPS and after a few minutes of practice, they’re up to 16K. Getting that higher DPS doesn’t seem to come really natural to many players. It feels like work.

This game doesn’t even seem to promote learning this kind of damage from within.

Narvuntien

vovus69 wrote: »

So thats why people do 40k+ on PTS with 500 ping. But for real, this is a factor, but not that important.

This is BS. Show me 500 latency, 15-20fps and 40k dps . When you have 15-20fps it means that you don't have enough RAM on the machine and in quick and fast situations like battle, part of your rotation will go to hell and NOT executed. And with 500 latency, you will have ~10k-15k max. Otherwise - bring the video.

-vovus[/quote]

I do 20K with 300 ping and some fps issues. But that is still half the 40K+ claimed. I am on a MagDK only self buffed although I don't have enough magicka to add more damage abilities into my rotation anyway.

I have only done normal trails and I have a lot of resource issues and end up heavy attacking a lot, which isn't that bad for a DK.

I really don't have the animation canceling thing down, I am not sure if it is just latency that makes it impossible. Light weaving drastically improved my DPS from 15K to 20K but animation cancelling still eludes me.

altemriel

If you selfbuff, then you will be stronger, if you use proper enchats on proper gear with the proper mundus stone, then you are even stronger. using the "right" (most useful) sets+food+enchants+skills+rotation+animation cancelling - combinations radicaly increases all your stats.


check this out for example, so you get an idea, what it is about.
https://alcasthq.com/eso-magicka-nightblade-build-pve/

if you are not magicka nightblade, then there are also other builds, check them out:
(on the top of the page choose either PVE or PVP builds)
https://alcasthq.com/

DeHei

Drummerx04 wrote: »

MyrddinEmrys wrote: »

For the longest time, I was really worried that I was doing something VERY wrong with my MagSorc, because on a good day, I would get 25k DPS on a target dummy, 30k if I got lucky with CF, crits, and I remembered to keep my DOTs up during execute. Then after doing a lot of vet hard mode content, I realized that if my DPS was that low, there was no way we would be completing the bosses as quickly as we were, especially when the other DPS was spending over half the fight dead because he didn't have enough health. So I did a little math (Im on xbox so live parses are not a thing), and discovered that my DPS was actually, at a minimum, 43k DPS (Of course, this was with buffs/debufs as well).

TL;DR - Its not all about the dummy DPS. Your ability to be a good player is WAY more than that one number.

PS - Also, remember that its not all about Single Target DPS either. Being able to clear trash mobs quickly in vet trials makes a HUGE difference.

I would be careful about drawing those conclusions. If your average magsorc parse on a dummy is a little over 25k, then you aren't suddenly doing 43k minimum on a trials boss. A more likely situation if you have a couple good stam dps in group is that they are actually pulling around 50k single target over the entire fight even WITH a death or two.

Bosses often move, you need to break rotation to shield/avoid something/handle a mechanic, ping spikes/lag, etc. All these things affect your parse. With perfect uptime of trial buffs, being very generous, I'd say as a magsorc you'll get maybe a 30-40% dps increase, or in your case 32-35k single target.

You are however correct that good AoE damage to clear adds quickly is very important and should not be undervalued.

I do not mean to put you down, it sounds like you have an excellent survival rate in trials which imo is an extremely overlooked ability. I just don't want you to get complacent and find yourself in situations where people kick you from guilds because you don't want to run a pet.

Like @kylewwefan wrote, DPS on a dummie is a great indicator, how much DPS you could do with your maximum and rotation. For sure at trialbosses we need to have more movement and some times with no damage or other stuff like that. Your DPS will decrease at some bosses. At others you can nearly do same damage, because you dont need to move much. But when your DPS and rotation sux allready on a dummie, so you will never have good DPS in a trial!
Thats the reason why good trialgroups want your DPS at a 3million and 6million health dummie and prefered selfbuffed.

Bobby_V_Rockit

Crom_CCCXVI wrote: »

Don't forget most people are lying...

When someone tells me there stam character burns down a target dummy with 50k per sec, it seems they never have the video.

But why would they lie? I dont understand at all.