Magicka Warden DPS. How to get the most out of it?

FrostFallFox

So I've been doing a few DPS tests practicing the rotation and trying different set ups to see what works best but I've only been able to get 33k self buffed with the Bear

I've been using Julianos and Necropotence with 1 Iceheart. I've also tried using a maelstrom staff on the front bar and removing Ice heart. I do not have any infallible or moondancer staves infused to test with sadly. When I tried everything out, even when I adjusted my rotation to keep blockade of storms up most of the time (if I used it in the same spot every rotation it would always fall off for a bit so I would have to refresh it st different times in the rotation), I've only been able to get 33k with the bear. I know it's not the best DPS class (high frequency the worst) but I feel like I could still be getting more out of it. I'm very new to all the maths and DPS stuffs, so I was hoping for some help

FakeFox

33k selfbuffed on a dummy? That sounds quite good for a MagWarden...

vpy

I asked the same question to my guildie.
He responded something like this

"It takes one or two days of dolmen grinding or better via Skyreach to get any class to 50 and so instead of wasting time/energy yelling/cribbing/whinging at the wall...er...ZOS..just reroll a Mag Sorc.

Probs solved"

Dasovaruilos

If you are getting 33k self buffed with MagWarden, I should be asking you for tips... Really, share how.

I've seen a few 36k parses but with outside buffs and very hard rotations.

I'd love to make them viable but can't make mine do less than 5k below my other mag DPS

FrostFallFox

Lol I DO actually Main a magicka Sorcerer. After all the changes Idk what's BiS on it and I've only been getting 35k on it selfbuffed. Swapping the same gear between my Sorcerer and Warden gets kind of lame.

zaria

FakeFox wrote: »

33k selfbuffed on a dummy? That sounds quite good for a MagWarden...

This, +30k self buffed qualify for vet trials in almost all guilds. The only one who it don't has to many players in trial group.
More impressive: You can write the meta book for magic warden.
Start an YouTube channel.

FrostFallFox

CalmFury wrote: »

If you are getting 33k self buffed with MagWarden, I should be asking you for tips... Really, share how.

I've seen a few 36k parses but with outside buffs and very hard rotations.

I'd love to make them viable but can't make mine do less than 5k below my other mag DPS

Still, I've only gotten 33k with the bear. Without the bear it's around 30k or so. I'm wondering if a monster set would help?

MLGProPlayer

zaria wrote: »

FakeFox wrote: »

33k selfbuffed on a dummy? That sounds quite good for a MagWarden...

This, +30k self buffed qualify for vet trials in almost all guilds. The only one who it don't has to many players in trial group.
More impressive: You can write the meta book for magic warden.
Start an YouTube channel.

Keep in mind, this is with the bear. The bear is useless in trials as:

1. It's single target DPS
2. It dies instantly to boss AOE

It's really hard to crack 30k DPS with destro ult instead of bear.

MLGProPlayer

33k with the bear is pretty much the upper limit of magicka warden self-buffed DPS (it's probably the highest parse I've seen). The class is a joke.

Wrobel acknowledged that they are in a terrible place right now on the PTS forum a few days ago, and that they will be addressing them when they rebalance all the classes. For those unfamiliar, all classes are being drastically rebalanced in the near future. Basically, every class is going to have a a DPS, tanking, and healing skill line, like the warden does now.

FrostFallFox

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

33k with the bear is pretty much the upper limit of magicka warden self-buffed DPS (it's probably the highest parse I've seen). The class is a joke.

Wrobel acknowledged that they are in a terrible place right now on the PTS forum a few days ago, and that they will be addressing them when they rebalance all the classes. For those unfamiliar, all classes are being drastically rebalanced in the near future. Basically, every class is going to have a a DPS, tanking, and healing skill line, like the warden does now.

Oh wow I didn't know they planned on doing that! I could see some skill trees already working out like that. Like the nightblades shadow tree for tanking, siphoning for healing.

vpy

[quote="MLGProPlayer;c-4567958" Basically, every class is going to have a a DPS, tanking, and healing skill line, like the warden does now.[/quote]


Source ?

Ihatenightblades

FrostFallFox wrote: »

So I've been doing a few DPS tests practicing the rotation and trying different set ups to see what works best but I've only been able to get 33k self buffed with the Bear

I've been using Julianos and Necropotence with 1 Iceheart. I've also tried using a maelstrom staff on the front bar and removing Ice heart. I do not have any infallible or moondancer staves infused to test with sadly. When I tried everything out, even when I adjusted my rotation to keep blockade of storms up most of the time (if I used it in the same spot every rotation it would always fall off for a bit so I would have to refresh it st different times in the rotation), I've only been able to get 33k with the bear. I know it's not the best DPS class (high frequency the worst) but I feel like I could still be getting more out of it. I'm very new to all the maths and DPS stuffs, so I was hoping for some help

33k may be the highest i ever seen on a parse self buffed with ele drain.

But with bear and minor berserk it does boost dps parse but 33k is impressive I would say the rotation you are using is golden and may he the best rotation for a mag warden. With bis using bear ult with war machine or whatever its called that gives major slayer would probably get you over 35k if you got 33k without it.

Until then mag warden needs BUFF but any buff at all would make them op in pvp

Sixty5

Warden DOTs just aren't that strong and they lack some of the more important solo buffs that other classes get.

Next patch with the Asylum staff should actually be a big improvement for Warden parses, since none of their class skills apply Burning or Concussed, so having access to those buffs is a big boon to the class.

Vaoh

There are two "BiS" gear setups for Magicka Warden.
1. 1x Kena, 5x Julianos, 5x Master Architect (with frontbar staff), and 1x vMA Staff
2. 1x Kena, 5x Julianos (with frontbar staff), 5x Necropotence, and 1x vMA Staff

You will deal more damage with Necropotence, but using Master Architect with the Bear Ult is efficient and bumps allied DPS up enough to be worth it over Necropotence. Either way, no matter what you do, Magicka Warden DPS is absolutely horrendous atm. They also fail to bring any group utility to the table which makes things far worse.

If you use the Bear Ult (which is not used in Trials), you'll notice it is completely useless in all content accept pure single target fights assuming nothing will kill your Bear. Slotting Elemental Rage/Shooting Star/Northern Storm is what you'll do in a trial, which actually lowers your damage output even lower that what we already considered extremely weak when using the Bear.

They need so many buffs..... this is not to mention that they have a damage done passive atm. If any other class had a passive like that they would become considerably stronger than any other class. A Warden has an amazing passive like that yet still falls drastically behind

MLGProPlayer

Vaoh wrote: »

There are two "BiS" gear setups for Magicka Warden.
1. 1x Kena, 5x Julianos, 5x Master Architect (with frontbar staff), and 1x vMA Staff
2. 1x Kena, 5x Julianos (with frontbar staff), 5x Necropotence, and 1x vMA Staff

You will deal more damage with Necropotence, but using Master Architect with the Bear Ult is efficient and bumps allied DPS up enough to be worth it over Necropotence. Either way, no matter what you do, Magicka Warden DPS is absolutely horrendous atm. They also fail to bring any group utility to the table which makes things far worse.

If you use the Bear Ult (which is not used in Trials), you'll notice it is completely useless in all content accept pure single target fights assuming nothing will kill your Bear. Slotting Elemental Rage/Shooting Star/Northern Storm is what you'll do in a trial, which actually lowers your damage output even lower that what we already considered extremely weak when using the Bear.

They need so many buffs..... this is not to mention that they have a damage done passive atm. If any other class had a passive like that they would become considerably stronger than any other class. A Warden has an amazing passive like that yet still falls drastically behind

Northern Storm is actually a useless ult since you lose the +8% magicka on your first bar swap if you don't double bar it (it only increases max magicka, not current magicka). And it's damage is significantly lower than destro ult (not to mention it spins around you instead of being targetable), leaving you no reason to actually use it.

And bear isn't just useless in trials. It's useless in DLC dungeons too, and a few regular dungeons. But even when it's not "useless", it's not really useful either. The warden is giving you 33k single target DPS. Any stamina class will give you 40k+ easily. Magicka classes are supposed to provide high AOE DPS.

The warden has 2 DPS ults, and both of them require double barring. That's a large reason why they suck so bad.

FrostFallFox

UPDATE. I just tried 5 Juli, 4 IA, and 2 Ilambris. Managed to get 34k.

Getting there!

I just slotted a flame staff on the back bar where I keep destructive reach.

Vaoh

FrostFallFox wrote: »

UPDATE. I just tried 5 Juli, 4 IA, and 2 Ilambris. Managed to get 34k.

Getting there!

I just slotted a flame staff on the back bar where I keep destructive reach.

You'll need Blockade of Storms to proc Off-balance for your group

WrathOfInnos

I've been working on a warden DPS build for clockwork city. A little hesitant to post good numbers here, since magicka warden still could use a buff to compete with other classes, but since you asked...

38.5k Solo Parse on PTS:





That's running 5 juli, 3 IA, 2 Slimecraw, with master and maelstrom lightning staves. For trials swap IA and Slime for 5 architect or moondancer.

One thing I would recommend on warden is unstable wall instead of blockade. Then it's 2 shalks per wall, and 2 walls per winters revenge for a clean 12s rotation.

I do not like Asylum Destro on warden, not enough time for crushing shock in between shalks and DoTs, and sustain is poor with a spammable.

FrostFallFox

Vaoh wrote: »

FrostFallFox wrote: »

UPDATE. I just tried 5 Juli, 4 IA, and 2 Ilambris. Managed to get 34k.

Getting there!

I just slotted a flame staff on the back bar where I keep destructive reach.

You'll need Blockade of Storms to proc Off-balance for your group

@Vaoh

I am using blockade of storms on the front bar. No maelstrom staff slotted

Olupajmibanan

Nvm

MLGProPlayer

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

I've been working on a warden DPS build for clockwork city. A little hesitant to post good numbers here, since magicka warden still could use a buff to compete with other classes, but since you asked...

38.5k Solo Parse on PTS:





That's running 5 juli, 3 IA, 2 Slimecraw, with master and maelstrom lightning staves. For trials swap IA and Slime for 5 architect or moondancer.

One thing I would recommend on warden is unstable wall instead of blockade. Then it's 2 shalks per wall, and 2 walls per winters revenge for a clean 12s rotation.

I do not like Asylum Destro on warden, not enough time for crushing shock in between shalks and DoTs, and sustain is poor with a spammable.

Now that's an impressive warden parse. I'm curious, is the DPS spike due to the minor berserk from Slimecraw or just your rotation (aka, if you dropped Slimecraw, would you notice much of a DPS loss)?

WrathOfInnos

@MLGProPlayer Slimecraw adds somewhere between 5-6% DPS from the 2 piece (not really the 8% advertised since it is additive with CP and other damage done bonuses). Moondancer 5 piece is actually better for DPS if you get the spell damage buff, I just couldn't use it for a solo parse since I had nothing to proc. 5 piece IA would be another option that gives similar DPS, but I felt that my vulnerability uptime was fine with just running a shock glyph front bar, so not much to gain there. Maybe IA would be best with a fire glyph, can't say I tried that specifically.

Only reason I used slimecraw was that I could not find a suitable monster set for this build. I sometimes use iceheart in content where a shield is necessary (then I can keep doing my rotation instead of having to cast harness every 6s), but iceheart doesn't put out any damage from range (although it's not bad in melee with the warden frost damage passive). Nerieneth proc's are rare with this rotation, and ilambris fire has the same problem (maybe if I dropped the spell damage glyph for fire, but that would be a big loss itself). Grothdarr only works for melee. Skoria isn't terrible, but not good enough proc rate to make up for the health bonus. Stormfist has a decent proc rate, but also has a fairly useless 1 piece bonus (stam regen, maybe ok if you need to dodge a lot). I don't care for domihaus, since you have to be at the perfect distance, and I don't think this is realistic on anything other than a dummy.

To answer your question, most other monster sets resulted in a 2-3% DPS loss. With slimecraw I can consistently break 37k, the 38.5k was a peak. With other monster sets, 36k is more typical, with some of the lower performing ones giving more like 35k.

D0PAMINE

Im using War Maiden + Julianos and 2 piece Slimecraw. Dual Wield and Destro. I dont run into issues and manage resources quite well.

Vaoh

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

I've been working on a warden DPS build for clockwork city. A little hesitant to post good numbers here, since magicka warden still could use a buff to compete with other classes, but since you asked...

38.5k Solo Parse on PTS:





That's running 5 juli, 3 IA, 2 Slimecraw, with master and maelstrom lightning staves. For trials swap IA and Slime for 5 architect or moondancer.

One thing I would recommend on warden is unstable wall instead of blockade. Then it's 2 shalks per wall, and 2 walls per winters revenge for a clean 12s rotation.

I do not like Asylum Destro on warden, not enough time for crushing shock in between shalks and DoTs, and sustain is poor with a spammable.

@WrathOfInnos Nice! That's the best parse I have ever seen of a Magicka Warden.
Then again.... there are huge flaws here, in that the DPS you displayed here is purely a parse versus a target skeleton and will be significantly less when built for a group setting/not a skeleton parse.

Slimecraw is the #1 DPS set for Magicka Warden in a solo parse, but must be replaced in a group setting since you'll already have that buff. Also 5x Moondancer sucks as a replacement (except in pure target skeleton parses) because of the sheer inconsistency of synergies which makes Moondancer quite a terrible set. You *could* go 5x Julianos, 5x IA, but Necromancer outparses IA on Magicka Sorc and it seems the same on Warden. Also The Lover needs to be replaced with The Apprentice in a trial since you'll lose a lot of damage by overpenetrating.....

The rotation you use is highly complicated and extremely time sensitive - not only will it be almost impossible to replicate that rotation in an actual trial for more than 20 seconds due to FPS drops/movement/other stuff, but throwing a single shield thrown into the mix, or a CC, or anything, will mess up your whole rotation too. This is why we don't build a class with 3,6, 8, 10, and 12 second DoTs ZOS -_- On top of this, Eternal Guardian artificially boosts your single target DPS by a lot, but it's not being applicable in trials or any other group content where something like DPS matters. You even tested on a 3mil skeleton instead of a 6mil which tends to boosts DPS by 1K+.

Sorry if I sound like a jerk lol Not trying to... it's just that what you've posted here makes Magicka Warden seem far less below other classes that they really are.

Pretty much every single thing about your parse is strictly for a target skeleton and won't work in actual combat. I dislike parses like these since it looks nice but ultimately a Magicka Warden that is "trial-ready" will (not-kidding) struggle immensely to break 30K.

Seeing a parse like this gets me worried that someone like Wrobel might see it as well and think that Magicka Warden is fine as is, despite the tons of target skeleton-only DPS boosts here that would need to be changed in group content.

Malamar1229

In Pvp as a magdens all you do is roll your face around on your keyboard and it's GG.

Vaoh

Malamar1229 wrote: »

In Pvp as a magdens all you do is roll your face around on your keyboard and it's GG.

PvE Mag Warden is the worst class spec by a mile. PvP Mag Warden is pretty well-rounded and actually good. They are polar opposites based on content.

We have never had a class that was nearly this bad before in PvE..... like it's now a running a joke to bring one in trials. The general response when I bring my Magicka Warden into a failing vMoL/vHoF progression to help out groups that are learning (I'm the only player who is allowed bring a Warden) I hear tons of "OMG we have a Warden!! Look at the birds lololol" ..... you get the idea. It's literally a joke to bring one.

WrathOfInnos

@Vaoh You don't sound like a jerk, you just don't know me well enough to know that I'm aware of most of your points (just made my forum account last week). I know you're a pro from your ability to solo everything in the game.

I typically go with mage mundus for trials, it performs slightly better than apprentice on a magicka race, with inner light, and good warhorn uptime.

The bear is horrible for anything that moves, or multiple targets, so for group content I slot northern storm for the passive, and use destro ulti from the back bar. This is about 3k DPS loss over bear on a dummy.

As for rotation, this one is actually pretty simple. I would say that any class loses DPS from mechanics or shields. Its a good amount of bar swapping, but I think most rotations will move to this. With the possibility to put a spell damage glyph on a VMA staff, you will see better uptime on berserker by going to that bar every 6s than every 8s, therefore ustable wall might also become more popular.

I might play with necro some more, just because the bugged synergies are annoying with moondancer, and since minor slayer is lackluster on warden. Architect is best if using bear (or even forest), but terrible with expensive destro ult.

Anyway, good recommendations. And warden is def behind other classes for PVE DPS. I would say its roughly 5-6K behind other mag classes (without the bear), and even further behind most stamina classes.

SoLooney

lol withoit that bear, your dps probs wouldnt even be in 30k range, mag wardens use destro ult and their class ultimate giving them 8perc more mag so having that bear is more of a cheese than practicality in raid scenarios, but its still a decent parse

People who get in the mid 30k are using 5 moondancer and getting worm and drain, same reason why magplars can still get decent numbers

Vaoh

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

Vaoh You don't sound like a jerk, you just don't know me well enough to know that I'm aware of most of your points (just made my forum account last week). I know you're a pro from your ability to solo everything in the game.

I typically go with mage mundus for trials, it performs slightly better than apprentice on a magicka race, with inner light, and good warhorn uptime.

The bear is horrible for anything that moves, or multiple targets, so for group content I slot northern storm for the passive, and use destro ulti from the back bar. This is about 3k DPS loss over bear on a dummy.

As for rotation, this one is actually pretty simple. I would say that any class loses DPS from mechanics or shields. Its a good amount of bar swapping, but I think most rotations will move to this. With the possibility to put a spell damage glyph on a VMA staff, you will see better uptime on berserker by going to that bar every 6s than every 8s, therefore ustable wall might also become more popular.

I might play with necro some more, just because the bugged synergies are annoying with moondancer, and since minor slayer is lackluster on warden. Architect is best if using bear (or even forest), but terrible with expensive destro ult.

Anyway, good recommendations. And warden is def behind other classes for PVE DPS.

Wardens are penalized far more for breaking their rotation than classes though. All classes lose DPS from fulfilling mechanics or from healing/shielding, but that rotation you use on Warden (which is the best one atm) breaks very easily.

A Stamina class places down their main four backbar DoTs, then can cast whatever is on the frontbar or heals whenever it's convenient. When one backbar DoT starts to run out you can reapply them all and not think too much about timers.

My Magicka Sorc is the same. I can reapply my Liquid Lightning+Blockade+Pet+Curse and then do whatever I need to survive, whether it be shielding, Heavy Attacks, or anything else. It rarely ever breaks my rotation, and is extremely simple to fix if it does.

Magicka Warden has so many different timers that the only way to benefit from them is to stray from using a rotation of Main DoTs -> everything else -> repeat into a rotation where you are casting all of your DoTs in a pattern than maximizes their duration. No other way to do it when you have 3/6/8/10/12 second DoTs.

A single shield cast or CC will almost always throw off the duration of them all since you give yourself like 2 seconds at certain times in the rotation where you can afford to cast a shield, whereas my Magicka Sorc or a Stam DPS can use shields/heals at anytime after casting their four main DoTs. It results in being able to maintain your rotation without getting totally confused.

Ive tried that rotation in a trial. Even in the best case trial scenarios, it requires a lot more effort on my part to simply cast the rotation without mistakes due to lag before worrying about throwing in damage shields and how my DPS will be significantly less than my Magicka Sorc's all while providing zero passive group support. If you use a rotation of Winter's Revenge -> Blockade -> Fletcherfly -> Clench -> other stuff -> repeat you will have a much better time and notice the same low DPS in trials since you can keep the rotation far more consistent.

Anyway... I've pushed for Magicka Warden buffs since they were first on PTS. I just want to use this class spec in a trial and NOT feel like I'm screwing over my group by doing it. Look at the effort I put into this thread https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/364868/buffing-warden-dps-in-pve-please-read-zos/p1

All I can hold onto atm is this comment made by Wrobel about Wardens on September 29th on the Warden CWC PTS feedback thread:

ZOS_Wrobel wrote: »

.......Some of you have noted that you’d like to see more DPS from Magicka Wardens, and we’ll be looking at the DPS across all classes and specs for a future update. We’re also looking into ways to improve the bear in PvP scenarios to prevent him from running everywhere, and also improve how Warden abilities work with animation cancelling.

Thanks so much for all the feedback thus far, and keep it coming!

The wait is far from over

FrostFallFox

SoLooney wrote: »

lol withoit that bear, your dps probs wouldnt even be in 30k range, mag wardens use destro ult and their class ultimate giving them 8perc more mag so having that bear is more of a cheese than practicality in raid scenarios, but its still a decent parse

People who get in the mid 30k are using 5 moondancer and getting worm and drain, same reason why magplars can still get decent numbers

Gotten 30k just fine without the bear self buffed

AverageJo3Gam3r

@WrathOfInnos do you mind spelling out the rotation?