Frustrating experience. Do anyone actually read dialogue?

anitajoneb17_ESO

Everstorm wrote: »

The Undaunted clearly warn you this is a group activity. And, well, there is no "I" in group. If the other people don't want to bother with it then you can't make them.
And not doable for 90% of the playerbase is ludicrous. However hard they seem to you now, in the end 90% of the playerbase can sleepwalk through Fungal Grotto. But it does require you to understand the game and your character. I see nothing wrong with that.

This isn't about whether normal dungeons can or should be solo'ed, and how much skill that requires.
It's about suggesting something that requires experience and training as a "solution" for a thing that people are legitimately inclined to do on their very first run : experiencing the quest. It's just plain absurd.

Dreepa

Its just bad design.

The design needs to take care of that whole experience, but they didn't. instead they repeated formula X without thinking it through.

Single NPC interaction in a co-op dungeon raid should be player synched. Proper features to skip this are voting systems where the players see something on the screen saying : "1/4 player wants to skip this dialogue/cutscene". When all 4 press ESC, or whatever key it is, the skip will be executed.

But ESO really has one of the worst multiplayer "what-not-to-do" elements I have ever seen in a modern game. I assume most designers were really new to the COOP experience field, or asleep for the last 10 years.

OutcastVP

laced wrote: »

OutcastVP wrote: »

So I have been trying to do some group dungeons lately by quing up, but it has been one of the most frustrating experiences yet in ESO (among many). For some stupid reason it seems the group dungeons have the most fleshed out quest lines with the most dialogue, but at the same time players are just running around like headless chickens as always. I try to just read all the NPC dialogue in these quest by reading quickly and not even waiting for them to finish speaking. But by the time I am done people have run away half across the map already. It is so stupid, both because why make these missions the most fleshed out when it is predictable that players act this way, and also do no one actually read any dialogue? I can see it if there are really high level players who have done it before, but this seems to be the case for everyone, even low level characters. I have done a bunch of dungeons and I am always standing alone in the end while everyone has run off, sometimes it seems other players even trigger away the dialogue so I can't even read it all.

I really hate the online experience in this game and wish it was possible to do these things offline without other players.

In story mode I dont mind if people listen to dialogue. In fact I encourage it, are you in PC EU? If so, I will do normals with you, I love reading story.

I should be in PC EU, but I cant find your account Can I double check what server I am on somewhere?

Dreepa

OutcastVP wrote: »

laced wrote: »

OutcastVP wrote: »

So I have been trying to do some group dungeons lately by quing up, but it has been one of the most frustrating experiences yet in ESO (among many). For some stupid reason it seems the group dungeons have the most fleshed out quest lines with the most dialogue, but at the same time players are just running around like headless chickens as always. I try to just read all the NPC dialogue in these quest by reading quickly and not even waiting for them to finish speaking. But by the time I am done people have run away half across the map already. It is so stupid, both because why make these missions the most fleshed out when it is predictable that players act this way, and also do no one actually read any dialogue? I can see it if there are really high level players who have done it before, but this seems to be the case for everyone, even low level characters. I have done a bunch of dungeons and I am always standing alone in the end while everyone has run off, sometimes it seems other players even trigger away the dialogue so I can't even read it all.

I really hate the online experience in this game and wish it was possible to do these things offline without other players.

In story mode I dont mind if people listen to dialogue. In fact I encourage it, are you in PC EU? If so, I will do normals with you, I love reading story.

I should be in PC EU, but I cant find your account Can I double check what server I am on somewhere?

Whats your nickname, I ll add you

Everstorm

Dreepa wrote: »

Its just bad design.

The design needs to take care of that whole experience, but they didn't. instead they repeated formula X without thinking it through.

Single NPC interaction in a co-op dungeon raid should be player synched. Proper features to skip this are voting systems where the players see something on the screen saying : "1/4 player wants to skip this dialogue/cutscene". When all 4 press ESC, or whatever key it is, the skip will be executed.

But ESO really has one of the worst multiplayer "what-not-to-do" elements I have ever seen in a modern game. I assume most designers were really new to the COOP experience field, or asleep for the last 10 years.

And when 3 out of 4 wants to skip they'll votekick the other one. I'm not saying it's perfect the way it is but you'll need a better solution than that. SWOTR had a system alike what you're proposing and it lead to just as many arguments about spacebarring through the dialogues.

Aurielle

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Everstorm wrote: »

The Undaunted clearly warn you this is a group activity. And, well, there is no "I" in group. If the other people don't want to bother with it then you can't make them.
And not doable for 90% of the playerbase is ludicrous. However hard they seem to you now, in the end 90% of the playerbase can sleepwalk through Fungal Grotto. But it does require you to understand the game and your character. I see nothing wrong with that.

This isn't about whether normal dungeons can or should be solo'ed, and how much skill that requires.
It's about suggesting something that requires experience and training as a "solution" for a thing that people are legitimately inclined to do on their very first run : experiencing the quest. It's just plain absurd.

What makes you think people need to "train" in group dungeons in order to solo them? I completed ALL base game group dungeons (with the exception of Blackheart Haven and Direfrost Keep -- the latter of which required a guildie to pop in and stand on the pressure pad) completely solo for the first time on my main in crafted gear, around CP 200-250. I wanted the PS4 dungeon trophies and didn't want to spend ages trying to queue for specific dungeons. My only "training" came from limited dungeon experience AGES ago, when I played a Templar healer on PC in pre-One Tamriel days. I'd long since forgotten the mechanics for everything except Banished Cells. If you understand the standard game mechanics (i.e. knowing to roll out of red, block heavy attacks, etc.) and build your character appropriately for defence/AOE offense, soloing normals is completely doable without dungeon-specific "training." In those rare instances where not knowing dungeon mechanics kills you, it's easy to look up a quick boss guide online. Normal dungeons are incredibly easy with the right set-up.

I don't mind waiting for people who want to read quest dialogue, but it's unrealistic to expect all players to do that -- especially not when folks have limited time to play and just want the random XP bonus. The easiest way to ensure you're able to read all quest dialogue is to group with like-minded people or, quite simply, solo the dungeons on their faceroll-easy normal mode.

Insandros

OutcastVP wrote: »

So I have been trying to do some group dungeons lately by quing up, but it has been one of the most frustrating experiences yet in ESO (among many). For some stupid reason it seems the group dungeons have the most fleshed out quest lines with the most dialogue, but at the same time players are just running around like headless chickens as always. I try to just read all the NPC dialogue in these quest by reading quickly and not even waiting for them to finish speaking. But by the time I am done people have run away half across the map already. It is so stupid, both because why make these missions the most fleshed out when it is predictable that players act this way, and also do no one actually read any dialogue? I can see it if there are really high level players who have done it before, but this seems to be the case for everyone, even low level characters. I have done a bunch of dungeons and I am always standing alone in the end while everyone has run off, sometimes it seems other players even trigger away the dialogue so I can't even read it all.

I really hate the online experience in this game and wish it was possible to do these things offline without other players.

That is exactly why i always run dungeons the first time with friends, so we can enjoy it... unfortunately PUGs means, run fast get it done with ASAP. Don't use PUGS or LFG Tool when you wanna enjoy content, maybe you'll get lucky and all will wait, but if you don'T say on dungeon start up you pick up group, chanes people won't actualy pay attention or realise you'Re doing the quest etc.. unless yeha you stay 5 minutes on an NPC, but still, ask eople you know or guildies... but i do understand that most poeple have ran those dungeons hundreds of time, so are willing to wait when someone grabs quest, but waiting for someone who actualy read the 5 minutes text on each quest phase can get them impatient.

Vimora

I'll be blunt. I tried but most of the dialogue is so dumb I do not have the patience. I do not have the patience to endure volumes of dumb and hastily-made dialogue just so I can find the really rare gem of a good story. Most annoying of all, people like Azura talk like 5-year-olds. Like they really didn't care to give that *** iconic daedric prince that defines the Morrowind story character.

I tried time and time again and I was devastated.

S1ipperyJim

It's annoying for me when I'm running a dungeon on a new character (level 50, 160CP) with a PUG and they all leave instantly after killing the boss resulting in the game teleporting me out of the dungeon so quickly I cant even turn in the last bit of the quest inside the dungeon for the skillpoint - happens all the time

anitajoneb17_ESO

Vimora wrote: »

I'll be blunt. I tried but most of the dialogue is so dumb I do not have the patience. I do not have the patience to endure volumes of dumb and hastily-made dialogue just so I can find the really rare gem of a good story. Most annoying of all, people like Azura talk like 5-year-olds. Like they really didn't care to give that *** iconic daedric prince that defines the Morrowind story character.

I tried time and time again and I was devastated.

Is there anything you actually enjoy in this game Vimora ?

Also, this thread is about people who WANT to read the dialogues in group dungeons. Obviously you don't, that's ok, but what's your point exactly - staying on topic ?

anitajoneb17_ESO

Aurielle wrote: »

I completed ALL base game group dungeons (with the exception of Blackheart Haven and Direfrost Keep -- the latter of which required a guildie to pop in and stand on the pressure pad) completely solo for the first time on my main in crafted gear, around CP 200-250.

Yes, you waited until you were CP 200-250 to do dungeons that are supposed to be accessible - and accessed at level 10. You waited until you were experienced and trained.

Aurielle wrote: »

If you understand the standard game mechanics (i.e. knowing to roll out of red, block heavy attacks, etc.)

yes, if you wait until you are experienced and trained...

Aurielle wrote: »

and build your character appropriately

In other words, if you have enough experience and training...

Aurielle wrote: »

In those rare instances where not knowing dungeon mechanics kills you, it's easy to look up a quick boss guide online.

Spoiling the experience by looking at a video is the very last thing anyone who fancies immersion and story will be willing to do. Rightfully so.

Aurielle wrote: »

Normal dungeons are incredibly easy with the right set-up.

And how do you know about the right set-up ? With experience. Thank you for proving my point.

Early game dungeons in normal mode should be done in a group early in the game, and the story should be accessible regardless of whether other group members are interested in it or not. Noone should be forced to solo or to find friends in order to enjoy normal mode - which is often called "story mode" for a reason.

The problem is the design. The story should be separated from combat, and be told before or after the actual dungeon run, or be part of the general audio, but not require lengthy dialogues.

OutcastVP

Dreepa wrote: »

OutcastVP wrote: »

laced wrote: »

OutcastVP wrote: »

So I have been trying to do some group dungeons lately by quing up, but it has been one of the most frustrating experiences yet in ESO (among many). For some stupid reason it seems the group dungeons have the most fleshed out quest lines with the most dialogue, but at the same time players are just running around like headless chickens as always. I try to just read all the NPC dialogue in these quest by reading quickly and not even waiting for them to finish speaking. But by the time I am done people have run away half across the map already. It is so stupid, both because why make these missions the most fleshed out when it is predictable that players act this way, and also do no one actually read any dialogue? I can see it if there are really high level players who have done it before, but this seems to be the case for everyone, even low level characters. I have done a bunch of dungeons and I am always standing alone in the end while everyone has run off, sometimes it seems other players even trigger away the dialogue so I can't even read it all.

I really hate the online experience in this game and wish it was possible to do these things offline without other players.

In story mode I dont mind if people listen to dialogue. In fact I encourage it, are you in PC EU? If so, I will do normals with you, I love reading story.

I should be in PC EU, but I cant find your account Can I double check what server I am on somewhere?

Whats your nickname, I ll add you

It is OutcastVP. I did add you though so I hope you get the invite

Cernow

It's just all-round bad design to put heavy interactive dialogue into group based content. Period. There will always be a mismatch between those who are interested and those who aren't, either because they've run the dungeon many times before or just want a faster game experience. You'd think ESO might have learned something from other MMOs, but nope.

If you want to experience the story and dialogue within a group context then your best bet is to join a good PVE guild and there will usually be players who are more patient with people on their first run through a dungeon, especially if you explain beforehand that you want to experience the dialogue. But in a group finder PUG, not a hope.

Dreepa

Everstorm wrote: »

Dreepa wrote: »

Its just bad design.

The design needs to take care of that whole experience, but they didn't. instead they repeated formula X without thinking it through.

Single NPC interaction in a co-op dungeon raid should be player synched. Proper features to skip this are voting systems where the players see something on the screen saying : "1/4 player wants to skip this dialogue/cutscene". When all 4 press ESC, or whatever key it is, the skip will be executed.

But ESO really has one of the worst multiplayer "what-not-to-do" elements I have ever seen in a modern game. I assume most designers were really new to the COOP experience field, or asleep for the last 10 years.

And when 3 out of 4 wants to skip they'll votekick the other one. I'm not saying it's perfect the way it is but you'll need a better solution than that. SWOTR had a system alike what you're proposing and it lead to just as many arguments about spacebarring through the dialogues.

That's point of the system. If 100% want it, they succeed. 100% is 4 of 4. Not 3 of 4.

They can argue all they want about it, the point is, if someone wants to see the dialogue he will get to see it. If the others do not want to see it, one solution would be to let them out of the cut-scene/dialogue with an indicator telling them that X people are still in dialogue. However, then they would still be able to rush ahead, so a mechanic would need to be found to limit that.

The current solution is a single player narrative system in a multi player environment. It is the wrong tool for the purpose in terms of design-craftsmanship. It is the worst possible combination of solutions. No one knows what the other is doing, and everyone only sees his interests at any given moment.
It even goes beyond that: When you enter, you get pressured by a timer, asking if you want to start the quest someone has triggered, and you have NO CLUE what this is about. You are running around lost, without context.

Everstorm

Early game dungeons in normal mode should be done in a group early in the game, and the story should be accessible regardless of whether other group members are interested in it or not. Noone should be forced to solo or to find friends in order to enjoy normal mode - which is often called "story mode" for a reason.

The problem is the design. The story should be separated from combat, and be told before or after the actual dungeon run, or be part of the general audio, but not require lengthy dialogues.

There are no early game dungeons any more since One Tamriel. The last dungeon from base game is the Vaults of Madness. One of the easiest dungeons in the game and the first I cleared solo on veteran.
Seperating the story from the combat sounds like a good idea but each of these quests give a skill point. That would be a lot of free skillpoints if no fighting were required.

LadyNalcarya

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

LadyNalcarya wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

A lot of you seem to imply that players have to "git gud" up to the point where they can solo a normal 4-man instance... to earn the right to listen to a dungeon quest that you can do only once per character ?

Shaking my head...

Well I have a dedicated character for that... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Most of 4 man content was designed for 4 _stat-capped characters with no champion points_, and all our characters are strong enough to solo/duo them. Yes, it requires some optimization, but 100% immersive walkthrough is worth it in my opinion.
If someone doesnt want to "git gud" on principle, they can just group up with likeminded people.

It's not a matter on wanting or not wanting to "git gud" on principle... it's that in order to "git gud" to be able to solo those dungeons - even on normal - you need to practice them. But the dungeon quests are not repeatable, you can only do them once, and the natural attitude is to pick it up an do it the first time.. when you have no clue what you're doing.

And yes, the solution is of course to run them with friends/guildies who agree to immerse and wait. But... The players most interested in quests, dialogues and immersion are those who come from single player games. They are not familiar with guilds and grouping and will not join any guild until much later in the game - if at all. Inversely, MMO players will look for a guild as soon as level 3 (if not prior to purchasing the game ;-) ), but they're far less likely to listen/read to any story and dialogue. (I know I'm oversimplifying and generalizing here, for the sake of clarity).

So there's a huge design flaw here, on both levels. It's a shame, because there are tips and tricks to solve these problems. How come we know CoH2 story quite well for most of us ? Because we MUST wait for the lady ghost to open the door for us while she tells her story !

Hmm... Not really, basic combat mechanics are pretty much the same. You dont have to practice for normal non-dlc dungeons.
Self-sustainable solo build is just something that is very nice to have. It doesnt have to be 100% minmaxed, just something with self-heals, sustain and aoe... Its a shame that those things arent explained ingame, even though theyre so important. Not just for dungeons, I've seen people getting stuck on quest bosses.
Yes, build doesnt matter in normal dungeons when you have a full group. But if you're looking for an immersive playthrough, finding 3 more likeminded people might be difficult, thats why I think that solo/duo is a good option.

As for those types of players, its usually a bit more complicated than that. For example, I really like dungeon stories, but I've done them so many times that I just click through the dialogues when I repeat those quests on new alts.

How come we are aware of the (sad) love story in CoA2 ? Because we hear it in audio all along the dungeon - instead of having the option to read it.

This is a very good point.
Some dungeons, like Selene's Web or Vaults of Madness, force us to stop and watch npc' conversations in order to finish the quest, and that might be problematic for players who prefer pugging. Even if they're willing to click through dialogues, they would still have to wait for npcs. If their group is too impatient, the quest might get bugged so they cant even finish it.
And even though Vaults of Madness is one of my favourite dungeons in game, I still think that COA2 design is more player-friendly.

Loc2262

I'd like to add and help you, but there's no account or character name "OutcastVP" on PC-EU...

I used to duo normal dungeons with a friend to read the quest dialog a while ago, feel free to contact me (@Loc2262), I'll gladly run through some of them with you.

Aurielle

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Aurielle wrote: »

I completed ALL base game group dungeons (with the exception of Blackheart Haven and Direfrost Keep -- the latter of which required a guildie to pop in and stand on the pressure pad) completely solo for the first time on my main in crafted gear, around CP 200-250.

Yes, you waited until you were CP 200-250 to do dungeons that are supposed to be accessible - and accessed at level 10. You waited until you were experienced and trained.

Aurielle wrote: »

If you understand the standard game mechanics (i.e. knowing to roll out of red, block heavy attacks, etc.)

yes, if you wait until you are experienced and trained...

Aurielle wrote: »

and build your character appropriately

In other words, if you have enough experience and training...

Aurielle wrote: »

In those rare instances where not knowing dungeon mechanics kills you, it's easy to look up a quick boss guide online.

Spoiling the experience by looking at a video is the very last thing anyone who fancies immersion and story will be willing to do. Rightfully so.

Aurielle wrote: »

Normal dungeons are incredibly easy with the right set-up.

And how do you know about the right set-up ? With experience. Thank you for proving my point.

Early game dungeons in normal mode should be done in a group early in the game, and the story should be accessible regardless of whether other group members are interested in it or not. Noone should be forced to solo or to find friends in order to enjoy normal mode - which is often called "story mode" for a reason.

The problem is the design. The story should be separated from combat, and be told before or after the actual dungeon run, or be part of the general audio, but not require lengthy dialogues.

1. OP is CP 189. I started soloing dungeons around CP 150. I really pushed to complete all dungeons solo between CP 200 - 250. If we're using a CP range of 200-250 to classify someone as "experienced and trained," then the OP would just about fall into that category, would they not? It takes almost no time to level from CP 189 to CP 200, and it is absolutely possible to solo a normal dungeon at CP 189.

2. I would hardly call understanding basic game mechanics "training," and you certainly don't need to participate in group dungeons to understand basic game mechanics like dodge-rolling and blocking. You were arguing earlier that expecting people to solo dungeons without specifically training in said dungeons is unrealistic. It's not.

Edited to add reference for the above, in case you decide to back-track:

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

It's not a matter on wanting or not wanting to "git gud" on principle... it's that in order to "git gud" to be able to solo those dungeons - even on normal - you need to practice them.

3. Building a character appropriately does not require "training." It simply requires copying and pasting a build from any number of the readily available builds on the internet.

4. The issue is the quest dialogue, yes? Learning dungeon strategies if you can't figure them out on your own does not hamper your ability to read the quest dialogue.

5. See point number three.

BrierTOG

Keep in mind with most names you will still need the @ before the name mentioned and some people use different names for forum and game. Like in my case.

Dreepa

Everstorm wrote: »

Early game dungeons in normal mode should be done in a group early in the game, and the story should be accessible regardless of whether other group members are interested in it or not. Noone should be forced to solo or to find friends in order to enjoy normal mode - which is often called "story mode" for a reason.

The problem is the design. The story should be separated from combat, and be told before or after the actual dungeon run, or be part of the general audio, but not require lengthy dialogues.

Seperating the story from the combat sounds like a good idea but each of these quests give a skill point. That would be a lot of free skillpoints if no fighting were required.

He meant the story comes not inbetween the dungeon as interruption, but at the start of the dungeon, for everyone, then the dungeon run (with parallel story-telling elements only as audio or in-world story telling so that everyone sees it without initiating a dialogue) and at the end of the dungeon as a conclusive script that everyone can see but nothing important comes afterwards.

Vimora

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Vimora wrote: »

I'll be blunt. I tried but most of the dialogue is so dumb I do not have the patience. I do not have the patience to endure volumes of dumb and hastily-made dialogue just so I can find the really rare gem of a good story. Most annoying of all, people like Azura talk like 5-year-olds. Like they really didn't care to give that *** iconic daedric prince that defines the Morrowind story character.

I tried time and time again and I was devastated.

Is there anything you actually enjoy in this game Vimora ?

Also, this thread is about people who WANT to read the dialogues in group dungeons. Obviously you don't, that's ok, but what's your point exactly - staying on topic ?

I thought this was about dialogues and reading dialogues. I just say what's on my mind. I'm not making this up just so I can be negative. Who wants to be negative? But this has been bugging me for some time. ESO is better than most games in terms of story. I mean the technology is better in the original sense of the word, where it means the way they deliver the story and execute quests, but the actual writing... the things these characters say and the way they say them... it just screams quality writing is utterly unimportant to this company. No wonder it's unimportant, when most people don't even bother to read it, which makes this a vicious cycle at the end of which it really only comes down to one thing: quality assurance and your dignity as a developer. You either meticulously craft the content you produce and take pride great in your work, in which case it becomes work-play for you, or just churn out content cutting back on costs wherever possible to maximize your bottom line. This latter is what ZOS is doing right now. I can't possibly imagine they take pride in what they are doing, although I can say the game is still very good, just not good enough for me to waste time reading it.

I hope you understand I say this with the best of intentions.

Everstorm

Dreepa wrote: »

Everstorm wrote: »

Dreepa wrote: »

Its just bad design.

The design needs to take care of that whole experience, but they didn't. instead they repeated formula X without thinking it through.

Single NPC interaction in a co-op dungeon raid should be player synched. Proper features to skip this are voting systems where the players see something on the screen saying : "1/4 player wants to skip this dialogue/cutscene". When all 4 press ESC, or whatever key it is, the skip will be executed.

But ESO really has one of the worst multiplayer "what-not-to-do" elements I have ever seen in a modern game. I assume most designers were really new to the COOP experience field, or asleep for the last 10 years.

And when 3 out of 4 wants to skip they'll votekick the other one. I'm not saying it's perfect the way it is but you'll need a better solution than that. SWOTR had a system alike what you're proposing and it lead to just as many arguments about spacebarring through the dialogues.

That's point of the system. If 100% want it, they succeed. 100% is 4 of 4. Not 3 of 4.

They can argue all they want about it, the point is, if someone wants to see the dialogue he will get to see it. If the others do not want to see it, one solution would be to let them out of the cut-scene/dialogue with an indicator telling them that X people are still in dialogue. However, then they would still be able to rush ahead, so a mechanic would need to be found to limit that.

The current solution is a single player narrative system in a multi player environment. It is the wrong tool for the purpose in terms of design-craftsmanship. It is the worst possible combination of solutions. No one knows what the other is doing, and everyone only sees his interests at any given moment.
It even goes beyond that: When you enter, you get pressured by a timer, asking if you want to start the quest someone has triggered, and you have NO CLUE what this is about. You are running around lost, without context.

You are aware of the vote kick system, are you not? They will just kick that one person out of the group and get someone else. Once again: I'm not saying that the current situation is perfect but what you are suggesting is not a solution that will make everybody happy. Maybe the best thing would be an option in the dungeon finder to find other people who want to do the story proper. Hell, one might even find friends and a guild that way.

VaranisArano

Like I said earlier, if you want people to wait for you to do the quest, ASK, please.

A note about soloing normal dungeons.

You can do it, but you have to know the dungeon and you have to know your character. Since that's pretty hard for a player who still is working on the quests, let's not use that as a flippant suggestion, okay? I've done some, but it was not easy and I would not suggest it for someone who did not know the dungeon or their character well.

For anyone wanting to try it:
I've soloed some of the lower level normal dungeons on a stam sorc and a mag sorc before I ran out of energy to keep trying. I'm not a great player, not a great DPS by any means, and not trying to claim anything special here. I do want to give you all a look at what soloing normal dungeons actually takes. I am experienced with the dungeons I soloed, having run them plenty of times on my MagDK tank and my DPS as part of groups.
1. Start with the easiest ones: Fungal Grotto 1, Spindleclutch 1, and Banished Cells 1. Then go one to the second zones, Elden Hollow 1, etc. Vaults of Madness is totally doable if you get past the first boss who reflects your damage back at you, just stop damaging him and heal through your own DOTs until he stops.
2. You need good self-heals and sustain. You need to know the mechanics. You need to know how to dodge, break free, interrupt, etc.
3. You don't need spectacular DPS, but if you don't have good DPS, the final boss fights are going to drag out for a painfully long time so you will get your workout with dodging, etc. I completed these dungeons with 7-13k DPS on bosses. That's okay DPS for a normal dungeon, but not great by any means.

Soloing the normal dungeons was pretty easy up until the final boss. Admittedly, both of my characters have a lot of AOE so they didn't have much trouble with the trash mobs. The early bosses weren't too hard on mechanics (this changes as you get to harder dungeons).

The final bosses were a bear the first time I ran them. Not because they hit particularly hard, though they do. My stam sorc needed to be better at roll dodging AOEs, that would come with practice. My magsorc just shielded up and healed with the twilight. The Final Bosses suck because when you aren't in a group you get hit with every single mechanic they have. Its amazing to see how many abilities they have that are normally spread out among the four people in a group. You'll get hit with every stun, every CC, every knockback, and you have to try to keep up your DOTs and AOEs in between getting hit and managing your own health and resources. It was a true exercise in multitasking and while I might get better with practice, my DPS was probably a measly 6-8k on most of those final boss fights. (I know, I know, any true DPS player is wincing right now). I'd get better with practice, sure, but the first time was a very long, drawn out, endurance fight.

In my opinion, soloing normal dungeons is something an experienced player does. It doesn't necessarily take amazing DPS - I'm proof of that, lol - but it does take experience and knowing how to use your character to do damage, heal, and sustain when you are getting the full mechanics of a group boss center on your character instead of spread out between four people.

If you want to solo normal dungeons, do it for the challenge of it and have fun with your accomplishments. If it isn't fun for you, its not worth the frustration of getting kicked around the dungeon by the boss.

OutcastVP

@Loc it is strange you can't add me because I am pretty sure I am in EU server, is it possible to check this somehow?

SunnyBunny

victoriana-blue wrote: »

There's also a really irritating "feature" where when 2+ people are doing the dungeon quest at the same time, if one of them zooms through the dialogue it'll advance the quest for the other person and boot them out of the conversation.

It's worth reminding people about it, and I say that as a max CP player. I've screwed up other peoples' quests by accident when I'm leveling alts, because I've read the conversations before and forget that dialogue is strange.

(Oh, and I can recommend Lone Wolf Help (PC-NA) and Pacrooti's Hirelings (PC-NA & -EU). Both guilds have people who are happy to wait for quests, just ask in guild chat.)

I'm in Lone Wolf and it really is a nice group of people. No pressure and they do dungeons and trials and stuff on a regular schedule which is very helpful as well..... ^_^

Darkestnght

After more than 2 years of playing ESO I do not think I have ever listen to nor do I read any dialog during quest or in the game. I click to get through it as fast as I can.

I will however slow down and wait in dungeon if I see someone waiting for the quest dialog to end.

AlnilamE

Sixty5 wrote: »

I know you don't really want to hear this, but 3 people wanting to finish the dungeon > you wanting to read the quest dialogue.

Yes it sucks if you are into that sort of thing, but expecting three people to inconvenience themselves for you is a bit rude don't you think.

My suggestion is to grab a couple of like minded friends and run through the dungeons with them if you want to take it slow and read quest dialogue.

Well, I think that the people who are using the group finder also need to be aware that not everyone wants to speed through the dungeon. If they want to speedfarm, then they also can form their group outside of the group finder.

When I group for a random, I always ask if anyone is doing the quest (or mention I need the quest if it's the first time my character is there), and then I wait till they are done handing it in before I leave the group.

jaws343

VaranisArano wrote: »

Personally I start all normal dungeons on my 660CP tank by asking "Anyone need gear or quest?" Its a nice icebreaker, and especially if there are low level players in the group, they may need the quest. Then at the end, I'll wait until they've finished the quest dialogue so they don't get booted. (And that's how I discovered the old groupfinder bug that the last person out of the dungeon could continue to get Premium rewards for random dungeons. Thankfully they've fixed this one.)

But you do have to speak up. See, if I've already completed the dungeon quest, the quest markers don't even show up for me. I don't have any way to tell when you need to stop and listen for dialogue unless you tell me or I somehow remember it from when I did the quest months previously.

I'll be glad to wait for you if you tell me you need the quest, and I expect that most other players will understand as well. Its a two-way street. We have to be willing to wait and you have to tell us you need us to wait.

As a higher-level player speaking to higher-level players now, if you want to blast through the dungeon without waiting for low level players to quest when they ask you to wait, do yourself and them a favor and queue with a premade group.

Yeah, if noone says anything in text or voice chat, I move on. If someone says they need the quest, I'll wait. And if I am on a new character that hasn't done the quest, I am speeding through the dialogue and moving on, unless someone says something.

Deheart wrote: »

There are players out there that can solo group content due to the fact that they can consistently use almost perfect timing, animation cancelling, and are able to fully multitask both skill bars and switching, basically they have Learned to Play. I am sorry to say that despite the fact that I have played off and on since beta, I am not one of those people and I probably will never be able to multitask and keep the timing going to the required degree.

If you can do it or learn it, awesome, if you can't, no big deal you can still have fun as soloing group content was never intended to be possible in this game originally.

I find soloing normal dungeons a fun challenge, for the ones that soloing is actually possible. I actually find soloing group dungeons easier than VMA. I still haven't completed VMA.

OutcastVP wrote: »

I could try to do a normal myself. But I doubt I will be able to pull it off, which ones are easier? I did the Gold Tower in a group and I would never ever in a million years be able to have done that one myself. Again I play with minimalistic HUD and I don't look up or study the absolute best combination of skills and abilities so I am not a "power gamer" in my setup.

I play on PC european server, if anyone wants to do some dungeons where we wait while there is dialogue I would love to do it so please add me as friend or group..

Honestly, while it is possible to solo them at lower CP, it is easier with more. And I agree that soloing dungeons isn't a fix for listening to the story. The best option is a pre-made group. As far as the HUD is concerned, I run on console and only see the incoming and outgoing damage indicators in the base UI.

Integral1900 wrote: »

I agree with the original post, it’s deeply irritating, if all players are going to do is skip the dialogue then why in gods name are they playing a game built on storytelling if all you want is to do is smash stuff there are plenty of god aweful plots in jrpg games you can just blow through and miss nothing of any value. Ive been playing since launch and only reacently got to hear the full story in crypt of hearts and it really got to me, a gorgeous bit of melancholy story telling.

Players skip dialogue because they have done the quest and heard the dialogue 100s of times. How many dungeons have you done? Because in the last 3 weeks I have run Darkshade I 50+ times, half of which were solo. I can guarantee that whenever I run it in the future, I have no desire to hear the dialogue form the quest again.

Perhaps if the farm on these dungeons didn't make it necessary to run them 100s of times to get the gear you need, players would be more inclined to care about the dialogue and quests associated with them.

Riejael

Here's some facts to consider.

Even if someone has the quest. They've likely have done it already and wish to skip through it.
Many have done the quests already.

If you tell people you have the quests, they'll usually be accommodating. But if you're reading dialogue, they may get impatient.

What ZOS should consider doing is implementing a NO-RP mode of the game. An option that one can toggle for each character on their account. What this would do is for solo play it would cut the dialogue, events, and cinematic out of the quests. You talk to a quest giver and you either accept or decline the quest. If diplomacy/intimidate options are available, it merely asks if you wish to skip ahead.

This way players who want to just grind out quests without dialogue they have the option.

For dungeons, the option would allow you to accept the quest at the beginning of the dungeon and complete at the end automatically if all bosses (that are required for the quest) are killed. No story, no events, just the normal dungeon as if you didn't have a quest. Extra mobs spawn for the quest as normal if someone has it, but that's it.

For players who don't have the option on, they get in their own queue with others who also don't have the option turned on. It splits the queues a little bit, but at least the players get a choice.

zaria

If other want to clear trash up to next boss while you do quest let them. You will catch up before they kill the boss, or you get an random dungeon done in 10 minutes. Both is an win.

If they have to wait you carry them, they will not kick you or its an weak group.

Its just an physiological thing the other are fighting and you should help.