Animation cancelling, bar swapping, and weaving are not fun.

nnargun

xenowarrior92eb17_ESO wrote: »

I miss the old weigthed trait... now that LA/HA are an actual thing...attack speed would had been such an awesome addition here...

How would it be an addition? only makes sense as a replacement.

tizodd

It seems a lot of people are kind of missing the point. Weaving, animation canceling, etc are not "features" of the game. They're basically glitches that were discovered and are now accepted by many as normal.

A lot of people don't enjoy glitching the game to get better results. We should be able to play the game normally and get good results. I think this is what the OP is referring to. It's less about it being "boring", and more about it being something that shouldn't be a part of the game in the first place.

Zenimax needs to address the issue so the game can be played efficiently via normal gameplay.

nnargun

But if the original glitch isn't boring but rather exciting like in this case why would you call it an issue? I'd probably quit the game if they "fixed" it. Will you if they don't? Don't think so...

Waffennacht

nnargun wrote: »

But if the original glitch isn't boring but rather exciting like in this case why would you call it an issue? I'd probably quit the game if they "fixed" it. Will you if they don't? Don't think so...

Plus...

People wanna block and not be stuck doing an attack animation when something comes at you.

It exists at all because they needed away to prevent players from being "locked" into an animation.

The use if which to make abilities faster offensively was unintended side effect.

But no one wants to get locked into a channeled ability

DeathHouseInc

FakeFox wrote: »

You find rotations boring because they have weaving and animation cancelling in them? So you think with half the skills and half the speed would be more challenging and fun? That does not make the least bit of sense to me.

In my opinion the faster and more difficult a rotation is the more fun it is to perform and the more rewarding to master.

So you find having to do 20 basic attacks for every 20 skills used fun? We will leave out the annoying bar swapping count...Some people find bean counting fun though, even when it is the same bean every day, all day long. In this case it is just every other bean sometimes you get a purple lentil or a lima bean which is super exciting compared to the basic brown ones.

It's completely clunky (especially with lightning staffs) and completely boring. Sorry. I would rather be doing skills than light attacks or anything mentioned. It makes every rotation tedious and monotonous. It's the same hsit every class and it ruins PvE combat for me. The game has a complete lack of morphs/skills and rather than being creative it forces you to do something completely plain and boring after every skill used or you just won't be welcome in anyone's group other than a bunch of noobs doing noob content.

SWTOR = challenging hard rotations that are not clunky at all on the majority of classes. They have a fantastic dance to them like playing a piano or instrument. Basic attacks are pretty basic by nature. I continually find in this game as you progress that the fun in all classes is always ruined because the game forces you to do monotonous things in combat or use skills you have 0 interest in that aren't fun and can't be avoided unless you want ignore all end game content which happens to be the most important, challenging, and fun part of every game. It not only does this with the things mentioned in the title it also does it when it comes to gear.

Yeah I know you can get away with not doing it in the majority of content in the game which is all noob content. Noob content is why we all play and stick around for though right?

NyassaV

Sounds like a L2P issue... Practice Practice Practice... However yes, ZoS, fix your ***

DeathHouseInc

L2P issue? Where was there a complaint about it being hard? I do it fine. It's boring and tedious. Isn't real hard to hit a button to light attack or bar swap to gimmick stats /shrug. It is however completely repetitive...for every class pretty much.

I am pretty sure it is more like a L2CODE issue. It is terrible gimmicky combat mechanics.

Loves_guars

I'll have to agree. While I welcome the mechanics that involve dodging and blocking, the obligation to perform light and heavy attacks in between powers makes it very boring/annoying.

I can stomach bar swapping and besides that's pretty core to the game, never going to change.

DeathHouseInc

cecibergesnrb18_ESO wrote: »

I'll have to agree. While I welcome the mechanics that involve dodging and blocking, the obligation to perform light and heavy attacks in between powers makes it very boring/annoying.

I can stomach bar swapping and besides that's pretty core to the game, never going to change.

I can stomach the bar swap as well to be honest, but adding in the light/hvy is just incredibly repetitive to me. I have no qualms with complex rotations as long as they are smooth like making harmony on a musical instrument rather than just random noise or in this case droning noise.

Betsararie

The_Protagonist wrote: »

There are a few things you need to invest in if you want to be good.

or

I also use

Even this requires quite a bit of commitment to get used to, but once you start getting the hang of it, you will never go back

Completely correct, if you don't have a gaming or MMO mouse this game is not worth playing in the least, and you'll likely have trouble being good at anything in the game. Just offering helpful advice.

Certainly would hope OP is using one.

starkerealm

Alexandrious wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

bebynnag wrote: »

The_Protagonist wrote: »

Izaki wrote: »

sevomd69 wrote: »

On Xb1...using the elite controller and mapping weapon swap to one of the paddles has helped tremendously...can't imagine playing without the elite controller...

Its the same thing except you jump when you weapon swap when you need to be moving aka in PvP. In static fights like in PvE... There's literally no difference between a normal controller and an Elite one.

Did anyone try using this? I have been eyeing it, but the experience with a regular gamepad made me have reservations. Any feedback would be appreciated.

i had one for about a week before 'glide' set in

i have no idea if i had bad luck, or if this is a known issue, i got a refund

the usability was much better than both traditional & elite contolers
it was lighter, more confortable to hold (no battery as its a wired controller)
the buttons/toggles were all where my fingers naturally fell so no straining or weird positioning, or unnatural movements

btw, i have medium to large sized hands for a female, which is considered small (re male gloves, bandages, controllers)

Razer quality control seems to have taken a severe nose dive over the last few years. Used to be, their peripherals were fantastic. I still have the first mouse I bought from them, and it works as well now as it did ten years ago. But in the last couple years I've had two Taipans outright fail within six months of buying them, and the Blackwidow I bought shortly after that first Taipan lasted about a year before croaking. So... yeah, I don't know exactly what's going on, but I've stopped recommending their products to anyone as a result.

Just stop doing this in pvp, it will last longer.
https://gfycat.com/gifs/detail/shoddyunripeadder

Very funny.

Though, seriously, the most abusive thing I do to most of my mice and keyboards is eat and drink in the general vicinity of them. I keep this stuff clean.

On the mice, there's issues with dust getting into the contacts and causing the sensors to fail or click in rapid staccato bursts. Which, in turn made heavy attacking impossible in ESO, on one of them... also I couldn't click on anything without triggering a double click.

With the keyboard, I'm honestly not sure. I think something got shorted, because the whole thing just decided, "screw this, I'm out," and won't even power up anymore. Either way, yeah, their QC has gone down hill in the last five or six years. Which is a real shame, because they used to have some of the best peripherals on the market.

Merlin13KAGL

Verbal_Earthworm wrote: »

weaving can be fun...i made a scarf once

@Verbal_Earthworm Tried that once, but it left me with a looming sense of dread.

Apache_Kid

sevomd69 wrote: »

On Xb1...using the elite controller and mapping weapon swap to one of the paddles has helped tremendously...can't imagine playing without the elite controller...

I have this controller and use it for shooters but I do not want to 'wear it out' on a game like ESO as i heard that they do not last verly long. Its starting to become tempting however. Having the bar swap on one of the paddles sounds awesome. Might have to just suck it up.

GrumpyDuckling

Blanco wrote: »

The_Protagonist wrote: »

There are a few things you need to invest in if you want to be good.

or

I also use

Even this requires quite a bit of commitment to get used to, but once you start getting the hang of it, you will never go back

Completely correct, if you don't have a gaming or MMO mouse this game is not worth playing in the least, and you'll likely have trouble being good at anything in the game. Just offering helpful advice.

Certainly would hope OP is using one.

Is it really "helpful advice" when you imply that anyone playing ESO on console will "likely have trouble being good at anything in [ESO]?" The game is absolutely worth playing without a gaming/MMO mouse.

I said it before and I'll say it again. There is more to ESO than animation canceling and weaving.

nnargun

ESO actually plays really nicely with a gamepad due to the bar swap design.

grannas211

I didn't like it either at first but it has become more natural. Once I learned how to roll cancel a frag, my hit ratio went way up in pvp for instance. Pve when I mess up a weave I can feel the dps loss if it happens over and over. I like that to be honest. Meaning the more you practice, the more damage you'll be doing.

Ozstryker

Blanco wrote: »

The_Protagonist wrote: »

There are a few things you need to invest in if you want to be good.

or

I also use

Even this requires quite a bit of commitment to get used to, but once you start getting the hang of it, you will never go back

Completely correct, if you don't have a gaming or MMO mouse this game is not worth playing in the least, and you'll likely have trouble being good at anything in the game. Just offering helpful advice.

Certainly would hope OP is using one.

Pffffft that's your opinion!...
A great thing about eso is controller support... Maybe you ought to try it, that's my helpful advice

Cybercore_Death

It takes some time to get used to working a rotation properly. I've been playing for over 2 years and only started to get the hang of it in the last couple months.

I play as an mDK and find the rotation, weaving and ani cancelling to be a nice change to combat of other games i've played. You have to really think about what you're doing until muscle memory sets it.

The most boring rotation i found was for a an sDK. You literally hold down your attack button and use skills between each heavy attack.

Its something that will take time to get used to. I would honestly use a target dummy (in a guild house if you have access to one) or find easy to beat enemies with a semi decent health pool like trolls / mammoths / giants etc and just practice on them. Rather than focus on bar swapping focus instead on weaving and ani cancelling on one bar. Once you get used to that then look to start and bar swap.

Above all dont give up and dont be discouraged by any negativity in the thread.

We've all been there at some point, its just that the "elites" seem to forget that sometimes.

Rainraven

DeathHouseInc wrote: »

This is the conclusion I have come to after trying to emulate rotations in this game for the past two months.

It makes every DPS class to me monotonous and boring.

I understand light attacks need to be relevant...I think it should be a way that is actually fun.

Weaving light attacks with staves manages to be both dull and irritating.

DosPanchos

I used to hate weaving and bar swapping/canceling. Now that I've gotten good at it (after a looong period) it's sorta fun. However, HA weaving isn't enjoyable.

What tweaks my melon is not seeing animations in pvp... old story, I know...

amasuriel

tunepunk wrote: »

I don't mind it, but i wish that most skills were more situational and stronger overall.

Get adds? - Drop your AOE's
Need to burn something down, drop your strong single target skills.

What bothers me the most is looking at boss parses where Ground based or AOE's are doing more dps than your single target skills.

I think skills in general should be a lot stronger than they currently are, but also cost more resources, so you would use them in the right situation, and not as part of an endless boring rotation.

This is along the right lines for me. I'm fine with good gameplay requiring co-ordination and timing, but I think the game would be better if they found a way to make it more dynamic, with decisions being more of a factor in PvE.

Getting good DPS now requires incredible skill and dedication, and I'm really amazed by what a good player can do, but most of it is about developing muscle memory so you never miss a light attack or fumble the rotation. Some of my best DPS parses in vet trials I was totally hammered, because once you know the fights it's actually better NOT to think. You just want to react and let your muscle memory take over.

Of course it's all academic, because for their to be more dynamic, choice driven combat, hard fights have to be less linearly scripted. Nothing in ESO history makes me think they will ever come out with a difficult fight that isn't the same loop of boss actions / health triggers.

Alexandrious

Heres what I dont get, people are accusing others of cheating by, macroing? Isnt macroing bad for Animation cancelling though? Or they talking about something entirely different?

SugaComa

Animation cancelling shouldn't be a thing ... Basically what it first is stack so much DPS your dead before you have chance to react in PvP

PvP should be about using skills to counter others ...

You can't counter what you can't see which is dumb and this is where ESO PvP becomes unbalanced ... Make it so all skill have to complete the animation before the next can be invoked and you will get real counters , real combat and a more balanced game

kaithuzar

I feel conflicted on this topic.
Part of me feels like a person can't be expected to react if nothing can be seen.
The other part says that you should know the attack is coming to anticipate it.
It really depends if we're talking 1v1 or open world Cyrodiil.
1v1 I agree but when you have stealth as an in game mechanic, open world it's not one person you have to worry about assassinating you but 3 or 4 all from stealth. You only see the ambush but apparently there were also 3 other attacks comboed with it & this is being performed by 3+ different players from stealth. There just doesn't seem like a feasible way to combat this.
Yet if you could only not see the first attack from all players but could see subsequent attacks, it would allow for more of a "fighting chance".

kaithuzar

What's annoying to me with weaving staves is that I feel you have to adjust your timing based on how laggy the game is.
Maybe you don't have to, but not seeing an animation fire or a skill logged properly will definitely throw you off. Because you think you will need to adjust your timing even if you don't.

nnargun

kaithuzar wrote: »

Part of me feels like a person can't be expected to react if nothing can be seen.
The other part says that you should know the attack is coming to anticipate it.

My English might be the problem here but don't those two sentences basically mean the same?

Hallothiel

Cybercore_Death wrote: »

It takes some time to get used to working a rotation properly. I've been playing for over 2 years and only started to get the hang of it in the last couple months.

I play as an mDK and find the rotation, weaving and ani cancelling to be a nice change to combat of other games i've played. You have to really think about what you're doing until muscle memory sets it.

The most boring rotation i found was for a an sDK. You literally hold down your attack button and use skills between each heavy attack.

Its something that will take time to get used to. I would honestly use a target dummy (in a guild house if you have access to one) or find easy to beat enemies with a semi decent health pool like trolls / mammoths / giants etc and just practice on them. Rather than focus on bar swapping focus instead on weaving and ani cancelling on one bar. Once you get used to that then look to start and bar swap.

Above all dont give up and dont be discouraged by any negativity in the thread.

We've all been there at some point, its just that the "elites" seem to forget that sometimes.

I appreciate your comments as all this is something that has only become at all relevant recently to me as doing more end game stuff but I have to be honest and say I find it all rather tedious.

I have limited time to play - it's bad enough trying to work out 'BiS' gear & get that but the idea that I have to spend precious game time practicing my fexking rotations is just not something that really appeals.

It takes all the fun & spontaneity out of the game. How dull to just go through the same motions in every fight without thought - where's the fun in that?! I know my skills & how to use them but this obsession with rotations & weaving just leaves me cold.

(Yeah, before any comments, I am never going to be leader board material but I can live with that. Happily)

Cybercore_Death

Hallothiel wrote: »

Cybercore_Death wrote: »

It takes some time to get used to working a rotation properly. I've been playing for over 2 years and only started to get the hang of it in the last couple months.

I play as an mDK and find the rotation, weaving and ani cancelling to be a nice change to combat of other games i've played. You have to really think about what you're doing until muscle memory sets it.

The most boring rotation i found was for a an sDK. You literally hold down your attack button and use skills between each heavy attack.

Its something that will take time to get used to. I would honestly use a target dummy (in a guild house if you have access to one) or find easy to beat enemies with a semi decent health pool like trolls / mammoths / giants etc and just practice on them. Rather than focus on bar swapping focus instead on weaving and ani cancelling on one bar. Once you get used to that then look to start and bar swap.

Above all dont give up and dont be discouraged by any negativity in the thread.

We've all been there at some point, its just that the "elites" seem to forget that sometimes.

I appreciate your comments as all this is something that has only become at all relevant recently to me as doing more end game stuff but I have to be honest and say I find it all rather tedious.

I have limited time to play - it's bad enough trying to work out 'BiS' gear & get that but the idea that I have to spend precious game time practicing my fexking rotations is just not something that really appeals.

It takes all the fun & spontaneity out of the game. How dull to just go through the same motions in every fight without thought - where's the fun in that?! I know my skills & how to use them but this obsession with rotations & weaving just leaves me cold.

(Yeah, before any comments, I am never going to be leader board material but I can live with that. Happily)

In all honesty you dont really need to worry about getting good at either to enjoy most of the game itself. From what i've found it only becomes essential if you want to do the "harder content" as it work like trials and Vet dungeons etc. PvP is unforgiving and unless you can "ride a zerg" you'll have your hand forced on this one.

I would honestly say play the game how it suites you. For BiS gear or alternatives ask in the forums (i've done before and had some constructive advise with details explanations which have helped a lot).

If you ever find yourself with spare time to heavily invest then it might be worth getting some practice in but its honestly not a massive game breaker to be able to enjoy a good portion of the game.

Zamuro

these so called mechanics feel like glitch exploits

Belegnole

I am enjoying the game. But it uses the most cludgy system I have ever seen. Add to that it has a glitch that the devs can't fix that has become part of your rotation. I mean come on, they're balancing the game around a broken mechanic.

Even with carpal tunnel and arthritis I can do it. But, that doesn't mean that it is intuitive, smooth, fun, or actually adds to the game in a positive way. It just is what it is...