[PVP Players]Zenimax should reconsider VMA weapon nerf

Krayzie

Please don't move this to the PVP section of the forums because the attention it will get here is so much more significant then that dead board.

There was an EXTREME amount of confusion displayed by PVE only players on why the VMA weapon change was a nerf. It was honestly unbelievable as 90% of the posters didn't seem to understand how VMA weapons work, such as equipping a poison and having the enchant suppressed with the passive 189 weapon damage which didn't count as part of the enchantment thus wasn't suppressed and a backbar weapon damage glyph to add to that 189(that's why VMA weapons are extremely beneficial in PVP).

This is absolutely a grotesque and sickening decision by Zenimax.

How many of you grinded VMA for the 189 passive damage AND NOT THE GLYPH?

How many of you equipped a poison to your front bar VMA weapon along with it's 189 weapon damage and a backbar weapon damage glyph?

Why would you introduce trait change and then nerf the biggest set of weapons people wanted to change traits on?

Zenimax, why would you do this to 3/5/2 will power/agility builds?

There should honestly be an uproar about this. People have spent possibly 100s of hours, countless days grindinding for these weapons in specific traits to PVP with Only for them to now basically have no reason to be used in PVP(I'm looking at you sharpened VMA inferno staff).

It's a shame they're trying to(or ignorantly did) kill off 3 piece jewlery sets.

What a shame and a disgraceful act towards the players by Zenimax

But hey, at least they're giving me a shield for every 1 handed weapon I've gotten in VMA, take me a year to clear my mailbox and deconstruct them all.

Hopefully this will bring in some constructive criticism from the PVP community.

Don't get me wrong, it's not a nerf for PVE, but PVErs be warned, we know who you are by your lack of knowledge , keep it civil.=P

Ihatenightblades

Umm why are you so salty over vma weapons? They deserve to be best single weapons ingame along with vdsa which i think has better staves and bow for pvp.

Poison enchants can go on any weapon dont see why you're mad about that.

189 spell dmg is what you are mad about? Cmon im sick of people crying for nerfs l2P man or get the weapon yourself if you want to be on a level playing field. Even tho you are ignoring the fact that the person using the vma staff cant use 5-5-2 for set combo so that sucks.

Qbiken

I don´t get the rage over 189 spell/weapon damage......

Turelus

Qbiken wrote: »

I don´t get the rage over 189 spell/weapon damage......

Apparently it makes or breaks builds, at least that's what people keep telling me.

Krayzie

Ihatenightblades wrote: »

Umm why are you so salty over vma weapons? They deserve to be best single weapons ingame along with vdsa which i think has better staves and bow for pvp.

Poison enchants can go on any weapon dont see why you're mad about that.

189 spell dmg is what you are mad about? Cmon im sick of people crying for nerfs l2P man or get the weapon yourself if you want to be on a level playing field. Even tho you are ignoring the fact that the person using the vma staff cant use 5-5-2 for set combo so that sucks.

True, poison enchants can be used on any weapon, what's an l2p issue? What do you mean get the weapon for yourself? Using 5/5/2 means you only have each 5 piece active(which means that sets with a 5th piece max stat like shacklebreaker are more useless when nt on shackle bar) on one bar where as a VMA weapon is very beneficial to a 3 piece jewlery set build.

Qbiken wrote: »

I don´t get the rage over 189 spell/weapon damage......

It's 189+back bar weapon glyph+poison front bar.

Turelus wrote: »

Qbiken wrote: »

I don´t get the rage over 189 spell/weapon damage......

Apparently it makes or breaks builds, at least that's what people keep telling me.

Misinformation^

OutLaw_Nynx

I don't understand it either... I play pvp. I use my vma staves on my NB and sorc because I'm too lazy to craft something else right now. I don't really care about the change. It's not going to shatter your build... vma staves are for pve (resto obviously can be used in pvp) I don't see WOE around in pvp unless a pve player shows up. Master staff I can kinda get the frustration but VMA staffs? Chill.

Krayzie

OutLaw_Nynx wrote: »

I don't understand it either... I play pvp. I use my vma staves on my NB and sorc because I'm too lazy to craft something else right now. I don't really care about the change. It's not going to shatter your build... vma staves are for pve (resto obviously can be used in pvp) I don't see WOE around in pvp unless a pve player shows up. Master staff I can kinda get the frustration but VMA staffs? Chill.

You PVP but don't see people using VMA 2h/staff weapons? Are you on an empty server???

It's about min maxing a 3 piece jewlery set/2 piece monster set while having a 5 piece body set active on both bars

LadyNalcarya

Dont worry, the new Asylum staves will be more OP in pvp...
And weapon damage values can already be stupidy high even without vMA 2hander.

Krayzie

LadyNalcarya wrote: »

Dont worry, the new Asylum staves will be more OP in pvp...
And weapon damage values can already be stupidy high even without vMA 2hander.

Guess I'll swap swallow soul for force pulse.

Brrrofski

The point is that the nerf specifically is in PvP. They're probably buffed in Pve by a bit.

scipionumatia

I kinda agree with op, don't understand why they cant add the 189 weap/spell damage as part of the set bonus.

PS4_ZeColmeia

I said it in another thread and I'll say it here,

@Wrobel puts out a vision of the year ahead yet failed to give even an indication of trait change or a balancing of weapons that is a significant and hard grind. This just continues to highlight that ZOS needs to have a bug and intended changes thread that they constantly track to. Their ability to communicate what is on the table to change (even if specifics are not known yet, or even the full method of implementation) and fill in details as they become available both gives the impression that things are not being worked on and that they don't respect their most dedicated players time.

No one would have invested time in VMA at the expense of everything else if they knew the weapons would change, and maybe significantly. No one would of kept regrinding VMA if they knew there was some method to change the trait in the future (and that the traits would change in HOTR).

Its not the fact that they would change, it happens in MMOs, but its the fact we know there is a concept stage, a calculator phase, a coding phase, an alpha stage, and then PTS before that all rolls out. We could extrapolate at least 6 months of known possible changes before something like this would happen. The fact that this wasn't communicated basically makes people feel very disrespected because that is at a minimum 6 months that they could of had a choice of not investing time in something that might not be worth it in comparison to something else in the game.

My personal opinion is that the cumulative changes in Morrowind + HOTR + Clockwork City are amazing and great for the game. I am still dumbfounded and awestruck at the lack of customer service through the lack of communication to the community from ZOS. I am quite sure this costs them subscriptions, crowns, and players/customers in general.

robhavok

Maelstrom weapons should be the best in game weapons. They should give a significant DPS increase

Kanar

Stop with the "it's a slight buff in PvE" and "this is a nerf to PvP only."

The maelstrom weapon changes are a nerf on both sides.

Juhasow

Well some people may not realise what that change will do. Making master/maesltorm/asylum weapons buffs beeing counted as set bonus piece buff not as enchantment will now allow to have poison and the weapon buff active at the same time. Who is using posion more often PvP or PvE ?

It's a freaking strong buff for PvP !

Lets consider few options.

Asylum destro = poison + high elemental status effects uptime (minor velnerability ,minor maim , burning)
Asylum 2h = poison+charging ulti while executing (nb's will be able to basicly use Incaps one by one kill after kill)
Maesltorm s&b = poison+2k additional magicka and stamina with each heavy attack after heroic slash (it basicly makes HA builds strong like hell and Heroic slash basicly free to cast)
Master bow = Poison+300 wep dmg on target affected with poison injection

This is only few examples You can imagine the rest. Basicly having poison and weapon buff active at the same time makes some combinations strong like hell, I would say much stronger then 189 wep dmg and if You miss Your wep dmg You can just take off poison and slot wep/spell dmg enchant.

Takes-No-Prisoner

Qbiken wrote: »

I don´t get the rage over 189 spell/weapon damage......

Me neither

Feanor

@Juhasow

And how does the vMA staff differ from a crafted one in that scenario exactly?

Juhasow

Feanor wrote: »

@Juhasow

And how does the vMA staff differ from a crafted one in that scenario exactly?

I said SOME combinations not every one of them. At the end of the day You can wear 5/5/1 with 1 beeing kena or Domihaus instead 5/5/1 where 1 is maesltorm staff and You'll ends up having 60 spell dmg less and You'll be able to wear poison or enchant on weapon. I dont think 60 wep/spell dmg is end of the world. With Domihaus situation looks to be even better then with vMA weapon atm imo because You loose 189 wep/spell dmg but You get 1,1k magicka and stamina. Pretty decent exchange imo so I wont miss that 189 wep/spell dmg beeing taken away.

Arthg

IMHO:

Unless you want to use the boosted ability, vMA weapons are now just trash.
So basically you're pigeonholed into using those abilities if you want to reap the rewards of your efforts beating, then grinding the arena.

The edge provided by those weapons is rather dull and unfair when compared to the pain it took to acquire them.

Fischblut

I play both PvE and PvP, and I don't consider upcoming changes to vMA weapons as buff
I still use sharpened weapons cause for me this trait performs better than infused or precise. I use nirnhoned vMA resto on my healer for PvP, for this little extra crit... In PvE, I would take my sharpened current vMA bow over, let's say, upcoming infused vMA bow with weapon damage enchant... In PvP, I use this bow for permanent weapon damage increase + sharpened trait. Just as I use vMA destruction staff for permanent damage increase on magblade - I really won't light attack someone to proc weapon damage enchant just before I use Soul Tether from stealth

No one would have invested time in VMA at the expense of everything else if they knew the weapons would change, and maybe significantly. No one would of kept regrinding VMA if they knew there was some method to change the trait in the future (and that the traits would change in HOTR).

Agree... I definitely wouldn't. Funny, that after previous nerfs to dual wield (from 3000 to 2000), and to 2h (I think it was from 10000 to 5000 additional DoT?), we thought that things couldn't possibly be worse, only better - but apparently there are no limits to bad decisions from developers At least vMA 1h+shield got nice buff, even with loss of extra health.

Feanor

@Juhasow

But that's exactly the point. The change makes it even clearer 5/1/1 with a monster set piece is superior to the vMA staff. It takes away choices.

Brrrofski

Kanar wrote: »

Stop with the "it's a slight buff in PvE" and "this is a nerf to PvP only."

The maelstrom weapon changes are a nerf on both sides.

Well 90% of the forum have been calling it a buff. I assume they meant Pve. I didn't think it was.

Brrrofski

Juhasow wrote: »

Well some people may not realise what that change will do. Making master/maesltorm/asylum weapons buffs beeing counted as set bonus piece buff not as enchantment will now allow to have poison and the weapon buff active at the same time. Who is using posion more often PvP or PvE ?

It's a freaking strong buff for PvP !

Lets consider few options.

Asylum destro = poison + high elemental status effects uptime (minor velnerability ,minor maim , burning)
Asylum 2h = poison+charging ulti while executing (nb's will be able to basicly use Incaps one by one kill after kill)
Maesltorm s&b = poison+2k additional magicka and stamina with each heavy attack after heroic slash (it basicly makes HA builds strong like hell and Heroic slash basicly free to cast)
Master bow = Poison+300 wep dmg on target affected with poison injection

This is only few examples You can imagine the rest. Basicly having poison and weapon buff active at the same time makes some combinations strong like hell, I would say much stronger then 189 wep dmg and if You miss Your wep dmg You can just take off poison and slot wep/spell dmg enchant.

Apart from you could back bar an enchant, get that, plus 189 damage and a poison if you wanted. Again, people don't know what they're talking about.

I don't use poisons, but still miss out on the 189 damage.

Like, if you don't PvP, don't try to explain why it isn't a nerf in PvP.

It really feels like salt from people who couldn't do vma. It's a straight nerf. If you don't think it is, you don't know how to squeeze as much out of a build as can be done.

Juhasow

PvP playes kinds amuse me. QQuing

Feanor wrote: »

@Juhasow

But that's exactly the point. The change makes it even clearer 5/1/1 with a monster set piece is superior to the vMA staff. It takes away choices.

No it doesnt. There is much more choices if You can choose between many different monster sets then if You're forced just to 1 certain vMA weapon.

Also PvP playerbase should be happy they can reach similar stats with and without maesltorm so it doesnt force them to run vMA.The only adventage that maesltorms had over dropped sets is nirnhoned which wont be problem anymore after retraiting.

I dont see what's the problem.

Feanor

@Juhasow

The problem is that there is no incentive to use the staff you obtained while doing a more challenging content in that area of the game any longer. Of course it's not a problem if you don't have the weapons.

Kay1

I never actually cared about any source of Weapon Damage since the whole stat is *** and scales so bad in PvP that have been running double sustain sets since SotH.

But I understand your point and you are right but let's be frank I've been here for years and they never listened to any one, never, really, never.

Even if the 95% of the time they are mistaken they don't wanna admit their incompetence so they just ignore all the people asking for changes, that's why the majority of vets and subs already left

Good luck tho OP, this thread will probably be closed because of "flaming and non constructive feedback" you know, the typical excuse the "mods" in this forum uses to close feedback threads.

OutLaw_Nynx

Krayzie wrote: »

OutLaw_Nynx wrote: »

I don't understand it either... I play pvp. I use my vma staves on my NB and sorc because I'm too lazy to craft something else right now. I don't really care about the change. It's not going to shatter your build... vma staves are for pve (resto obviously can be used in pvp) I don't see WOE around in pvp unless a pve player shows up. Master staff I can kinda get the frustration but VMA staffs? Chill.

You PVP but don't see people using VMA 2h/staff weapons? Are you on an empty server???

It's about min maxing a 3 piece jewlery set/2 piece monster set while having a 5 piece body set active on both bars

I see people with the staves and 2h.


It's just 189 damage. You will survive.

Juhasow

Feanor wrote: »

@Juhasow

The problem is that there is no incentive to use the staff you obtained while doing a more challenging content in that area of the game any longer. Of course it's not a problem if you don't have the weapons.

Yes there is incentive. PvE wise maesltorm destro will still be BiS for offbar propably. Noone said it have to be best in every area. Also maybe maesltorm destro will loose little purpose in PvP but things like maesltorm resto or s&b definietly will be much better for PvP now. It's normal thing in games some things getting worse some getting better. Everything flows.

raasdal

So everyone complains that vMSA are "BiS" and a "Must-Have" dealbreaker for any build, and how that is BS considering how difficult it is, to obtain in desired trait.

Then ZOS goes out and fixes all your Trait problems, allowing you to not having to grind the same content endlessly.

And at the same time ZOS fixes the base issue of vMSA weapons being too overpowered, by changing it to how it should ALWAYS have been. That the special function was a 1 pcs. set, just like the Monster 2 pcs.

So all in all, ONLY good changes to the health of the game.

The result?; Everyone who already suffered the grinding go all QQ.

Feanor

Juhasow wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

@Juhasow

The problem is that there is no incentive to use the staff you obtained while doing a more challenging content in that area of the game any longer. Of course it's not a problem if you don't have the weapons.

Yes there is incentive. PvE wise maesltorm destro will still be BiS for offbar propably. Noone said it have to be best in every area. Also maybe maesltorm destro will loose little purpose in PvP but things like maesltorm resto or s&b definietly will be much better for PvP now. It's normal thing in games some things getting worse some getting better. Everything flows.

Please read the thread title again. And your comment after. Hint: The key word is PvP.

Brrrofski

Juhasow wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

@Juhasow

The problem is that there is no incentive to use the staff you obtained while doing a more challenging content in that area of the game any longer. Of course it's not a problem if you don't have the weapons.

Yes there is incentive. PvE wise maesltorm destro will still be BiS for offbar propably. Noone said it have to be best in every area. Also maybe maesltorm destro will loose little purpose in PvP but things like maesltorm resto or s&b definietly will be much better for PvP now. It's normal thing in games some things getting worse some getting better. Everything flows.

I dunno. An extra 400 magica when I use a largely redundant skill in PvP at the cost of a 5 piece? I doubt it. S&b being 2 slots will probably hurt it a lot in PvP too. Destro will be useless. 2h will have very little use. They've killed them in PvP, which is whatever. I'll adapt. I have build that don't use them so it isn't a problem.

Just sick of people saying they've been buffed and people are just QQing about them. It genuinely feels like salt from those unable to get them.