Do you experience cheating in PVP?

Lord_Wrath

Yes. Frequently.

Biro123 wrote: »

Lol... Can't beat a good assumptions..... Especially that huge assumption that its caused intentionally and by macro's

Difference being I can see my death recap and how you cant do 2 heavy attacks among other skills in a second vs telling someone else they probably suck without witnessing a thing.

CatchMeTrolling

No.

No but cheating isn't always obvious and it's a broad term. In some ways it's actually subjective, definitely in this game considering what the devs allow.

WhiteMage

No.

I'm going to say no. I have seen only one player cheat in recent memory: a sorc that knowingly exploits the glitch that allows for 2 scamps. I have seen countless accusations fly about someone cheating (occasionally directed at me) and with a confidence of six sigma, I can say that these players who accuse others of cheating are wholly incompetent players who are simultaneously exposing themselves as such and issuing the greatest compliment that anyone could muster towards the skill of the player that probably rekt them.

ManDraKE

No.

Lord_Wrath wrote: »

Assumption is not an argument.

accusing people of cheating withouth actually having any proof isn't an argument neither but here we are...

Lord_Wrath

Yes. Frequently.

ManDraKE wrote: »

Lord_Wrath wrote: »

Assumption is not an argument.

accusing people of cheating withouth actually having any proof isn't an argument neither but here we are...

Now this is getting stupid. Are you trying to justify yourself by stepping on your own toes? You cant prove your assumption on others being bad players without proof so whats your point? This thread is about experiencing these things, which ive been experiencing 2 years longer than youve had the game.

Zos cant take action as the only proof is video submission, whos constantly recording? Then again they can barely decipher whats a bug/glitch/exploit without months worth of digging before/if they decide to do something about it or not. That said, yea these are anecdotes but with enough common occurrences between a mass of players and a general understanding of how macros and cooldowns work, brushing it off is one heck of a fallacy.

Autumnhart

Yes. Once in a while.

Lord_Wrath wrote: »

ManDraKE wrote: »

Lord_Wrath wrote: »

Assumption is not an argument.

accusing people of cheating withouth actually having any proof isn't an argument neither but here we are...

Zos cant take action as the only proof is video submission, whos constantly recording?

Really? A lot of people are recording.

Derra

No.

Lord_Wrath wrote: »

All too often by a greatsword user I see one swing that knocks me back and kills me before i even hit the ground. Without a doubt theyre macroers, even if its not that kills constructive gameplay.

ManDraKE wrote: »

More likely you are just calling cheats on people that is better than you, simple as that. This is very common, i've been called cheater a millon times and i'm not even that good at PvP.

Assumption is not an argument.

Macroing does not allow you to achieve anything that can´t be achieved my normal button presses.

The only occasion when i´m fairly sure someone uses macros is when they would perform better without.

raasdal

No.

Skoomah wrote: »

Cheating in PVP takes many forms: Add-ons that allow you to change your stats, damage, regen, infinite resources, infinite ultimate, etc. Macros that allow for near instant use of many skills all at once. Exploits that go around game mechanics. The list goes on and on.

OP is the reason why i can't play for more than 20 minutes without getting hate tells about how i am a cheating sob.

With the exception of people exploiting bugs / broken game mechanics (like Yarok with the Perma / Cancelled Mist Form etc. etc.) none of what the OP considers Cheating is actually happening. Add-ons can't change stats, and Macros do not allow you to bypass GCD. Which just proves the old saying; "If i beat someone, i am skilled. If someone beats me, they are cheating."

Biro123

No.

Lord_Wrath wrote: »

Biro123 wrote: »

Lol... Can't beat a good assumptions..... Especially that huge assumption that its caused intentionally and by macro's

Difference being I can see my death recap and how you cant do 2 heavy attacks among other skills in a second vs telling someone else they probably suck without witnessing a thing.

Its a bug. its nothing to do with macro's. I'm not sure if its lag-related or not - but sometimes it just gets stuck in the crit-rush animation for a few seconds and if you keep mashing abilities while stuck, then when it eventually starts working again, they all seem to land at once. I've done it a few times - and I don't use any macro's in this game (there' no point)

I have used them in other games - so I do understand them. All a macro can do is simulate keypresses. No matter how fast you mash a button - whether manually or via a macro - the game engine will only allow one skill per second...

Besides, the point is that you have no proof that what happens is due to a macro. You havn't seen what the attacker did at his keyboard, what it looked like from his screen. Therefore you are making assumptions. So please don't call people out for making assumptions when yo are doing just that yourself.

raasdal

No.

Thogard wrote: »

This thread is a great way to see how many sore losers there are (sorrry solar! )

Video evidence of cheating has not been posted since they changed the API to block cheat engine. With all of the streamers and recorders around, it should be easy to find some proof.. but it doesn't exist.

There are a few exploits in the game, such as using fire rune in the BGs to knock someone into insta death via spawn protection environment damage, but sadly that's not what people are ever referring to when they say they are victims of cheating.

People always need excuses for why they lost. Some people refuse to ever take personal accountability.

You're welcome to post a recent video to prove me wrong. But you won't, because it doesn't exist.

You get an awesome for that one. Thank you.

Chilly-McFreeze

I run into users of questionable, them benefitting add ons (miat's) on a daylie basis. But is that cheating? I dunno.

I also witness exploits from time to time. Seems like wall jumping on completely closed keeps is still a thing. Had an incident with a fairly popular AD nightblade on PC EU Vivec last week where he hid in a flipped and repaired keep, got killed, resurrected and somehow was back on the keep wall after a few minutes. Intended or not, but he doesn't seem to care that he did what shouldn't be possible.

Most things I find strange can be explained through lag etc. But on obvious cheating I can recall only one incident where a guy used three different ultimates in the same fight (standard, leap and bats). Stupid to do that since that is really, really "in your face" cheating. But that wasn't recent.

Lord_Etrigan

Yes. Frequently.

Yeah imagin my surprise when learned that a certain AD Emperor on ps4 EU is paying Smurfies to kill them in mobs for AP.

This was confirmed from the horses mouth in group chat and later again by a guild mate who request we should not complete the Emp circle due to the above.

The Emp now goes by the name of "Cheat Emp".

Zer0oo

No.

I haven't seen anyone using cheats and most people who call out other players for cheating are most of the time just really bad in pvp.


Using exploits is another thing and actually quite common, that partially the fault of ZOS for allowing something like and sometimes not really clear if it is an exploit or is intended.

Some "exploits"(or working as intended) that were or are in the game:
Jumping in keeps, Double como hunter procs to 1shot every vampire, double soc pets, crit rush from stealth (a.k macro slice), 100% axe bleed chance, health desyncing(cliff racers, light attack stacking), all selfheal sets can bug out to heal you for some insane amount of hp, 1shot ppl with beast trap, .....

kevlarto_ESO

Yes. Frequently.

Almost every day from certain people, and why not zos does nothing about it, and believe me I have played these games long enough to tell the difference between game mechanics and good players and cheating.

fioskal

No.

I've never come across cheating personally (that I know of). I've seen videos of people cheating, but not recently.

Kas

No.

Derra wrote: »

Bugabuse or exploited mechanics? Yes once in a while.

Gapcloser from sneak without the char appearing.
Soulassault out of mistform.
Incap ignoring dodgeroll.

Straightup cheating? Not since the cheatengine incedent.

this, plus bugs used unintentionally:
dead-but-not-really-dead, missing walls, bad connection on one end making it nearly impossible to meele hit the player with the bad connection because of constant teleporting, some patches ago: i sometimes randomly had no battle spirit within cyrodiil, health desyncs, stam desyncs

rfennell_ESO

Yes. Frequently.

I guess the answer would be no if you just don't count 90% of exploits as cheating.

Do people exploit broken mechanics every single day? Yes, yes they do. Is that exploiting? Of course it is. Will those that abuse mechanics admit it's cheating? Not in a million years.

There is a lot of buggy crap with charges that's abused regularly, sometimes accidentally, but fairly regularly done intentionally. Problem here is those that do it intentionally (or build to take advantage of it exclusively) will just claim it's accidental and ZOS' fault and they have absolutely no guilt.

There are quite a few perma blocking, high damage, unlimited sustain types running around cyrondil. Their claims are always claims of "skill". Is it? if history has any bearing on the present, it's pretty unlikely.

There are a fair number of like minded types that passively dodge at rates that are a bit absurd. Is it RNG? Lol, that's what they will tell you, but the same people always having RNG work for them is pretty unlikely.

There are still people using exploits to get in to keeps via the mage guards, and they do it every time the keeps you can do it at are not their alliances. Is this exploiting? You bet it is. Will someone using it call it cheating? Not a chance in hell.

Is it trivial to use a macro on every keypress to light attack before the ability and cancel the animation? You bet it is. Is that cheating? According to ZOS it is. Will anyone doing this say anything other than "macros don't work in pvp"? You know the answer.

Do I see someone spamming reverse slice/executioner at a rate that makes me laugh? Every day? Yes I do... sometimes I see them using a charge and spamming reverse slice/executioner in the air as they fly around the battlefield from target to target. Is the ability being used faster than the duration of a second? Sure is. Is this cheating? Sure is. Will anyone doing this admit to that? LOL U GOT REKT NOOB.

Biro123

No.

rfennell_ESO wrote: »

I guess the answer would be no if you just don't count 90% of exploits as cheating.

Do people exploit broken mechanics every single day? Yes, yes they do. Is that exploiting? Of course it is. Will those that abuse mechanics admit it's cheating? Not in a million years.

Are they really broken - as in bugged, to be fixed by Zos? Or are they just broken to your perspective simply because you don't like them. Plenty of people say shield-stacking is broken - Zos don't seem to think so, and view it as a valid mechanic. Does that make a shield-stacker a cheater? Course not.

rfennell_ESO wrote: »

There is a lot of buggy crap with charges that's abused regularly, sometimes accidentally, but fairly regularly done intentionally. Problem here is those that do it intentionally (or build to take advantage of it exclusively) will just claim it's accidental and ZOS' fault and they have absolutely no guilt.

I think that was pretty much fixed in a recent patch. .There was a long thread a month or so ago where someone had tested thoroughly with a friend and found that where he could duplicate the 'macro-slice' when the gap-close froze him mid-animation, and from the attackers view all those abilities landed at once... The defender actually saw those attacks come in separately - with proper cooldowns.. I've not seen a ton of abilities hit me at once like this for a looong time.. unless its a situation where the server is about to drop and its lag causing slowdowns/freezes followed by everything catching up.. But that's server/network lag, not a player exploiting.

rfennell_ESO wrote: »

There are quite a few perma blocking, high damage, unlimited sustain types running around cyrondil. Their claims are always claims of "skill". Is it? if history has any bearing on the present, it's pretty unlikely.

No? Its just builds using mechanics that are in-game.. Look at sturdy, block-cost reductions combined with ulti's that block for you while you recover resources and ulti-recov gear... Its not cheating - its just a block-focussed build.

rfennell_ESO wrote: »

There are a fair number of like minded types that passively dodge at rates that are a bit absurd. Is it RNG? Lol, that's what they will tell you, but the same people always having RNG work for them is pretty unlikely.

Not seen this for a long time.. Seen builds that do a ton of active dodging, but not ott passive dodge rates.

rfennell_ESO wrote: »

There are still people using exploits to get in to keeps via the mage guards, and they do it every time the keeps you can do it at are not their alliances. Is this exploiting? You bet it is. Will someone using it call it cheating? Not a chance in hell.

Yeah, I've seen the 'odd' exploit like this happening. And yes it is exploiting a bug. Its very rare I've seen it though (twice maybe in the last year)?

rfennell_ESO wrote: »

Is it trivial to use a macro on every keypress to light attack before the ability and cancel the animation? You bet it is. Is that cheating? According to ZOS it is. Will anyone doing this say anything other than "macros don't work in pvp"? You know the answer.

Macro's reduce your flexibility and don't deal with lag very well. I don't think they would really help in this game. Is it classed as cheating? I honestly haven't bothered checking since I've never thought there would be any benefit to use them in this game, but did think they were allowed. Its probably a bit grey. Other games I've played view them with a 1-button, 1 skill kind of approach.. Where if pressing one button fires off one skill, its fine.. but having a macro that you can leave running (ie bots) that attacks every few seconds etc.. while you go and do something else is obviously against the ToS.

rfennell_ESO wrote: »

Do I see someone spamming reverse slice/executioner at a rate that makes me laugh? Every day? Yes I do... sometimes I see them using a charge and spamming reverse slice/executioner in the air as they fly around the battlefield from target to target. Is the ability being used faster than the duration of a second? Sure is. Is this cheating? Sure is. Will anyone doing this admit to that? LOL U GOT REKT NOOB.

Not seen that for ages either.. afaik, there's a sweet-spot where you're within heavy attack range yet far enough away to gap-close when you can combine heavy attack with gap-close - but that's about it in terms of what I know about and what I've seen over the past few months.



You sure you're not still remembering exploits from many, many months ago which has now been fixed..?

Eyesinthedrk

Yes. Once in a while.

Yep the under dolman and keep exploits that's been happening for years.

Then there is the enemy player who logs into your alliance, and goes in and out of a door repeatedly so his friends can ambush into the keep.

DeHei

Yes. Once in a while.

There are just few people, where i think they use some kind of "cheat"-engine. One AD player is a well known Sorc whit some stars on his alliance rank (PC/EU). Its not a long time ago in a BG, that i killed from him into 1 sec and had 10 different attacks in my combatlog, all impacts with 0,0x sec difference or same time. Indiscutable, that this isnt possible on a common way!

rfennell_ESO

Yes. Frequently.

Biro123 wrote: »

You sure you're not still remembering exploits from many, many months ago which has now been fixed..?

I could probably go on for as long as I already did with more little glitches I see every day.

Like Sorcs that streak/bolt escape where the animation is off and they are instantly at the end point (good luck gap closing them lol!).

Or the amount of people that aren't orcs that tear off into the sunset at roadrunner speeds.

Or the sheer amount of players that attack just a bit faster than anyone else.

All to which you will respond with some partial explanation as to why I'm wrong.

The problem is... when you really compile the list, it becomes unlikely and unlikelier that none of them are cheats at play. Makes the NO vote a little laughable.

Finding a bug or glitch and building around it or just flat out abusing it is certainly cheating.

Lastly, who even knows what's been fixed...it's rarely addressed. I know @NightbladeMechanics has recently commented about the charge exploits and I see them all the time. Guess I'm just crazy, right?

Serjustin19

Yes. Once in a while.

99.5% When I thought someone was cheating, was actually my lag. Like 2 days ago.

The other 5%. 1 happened long ago, splitting logs really, really fast... 2 had 2 handed Swords, swing Swords downward. Round and round there Swords went. Hitting the logs, that could never be cut. Was by AD base. (I Think, long ago it happened)

The other one happened recent, I wrote about it; since I wasn't sure. But luckily someone helped me.

The other time long long ago, (before it was known as cheating, but since zos couldn't fix it at time. They mentioned it was cheating) I'm sure we all past DK's went flying on keep walls, including me long ago) I also stop flying on keeps, when it became known as cheating....

DeadlyRecluse

Outside of that one weekend (you know the one), I've only seen 1-2 cases where someone's play made me think they might be cheating/exploiting. In every other case, either thinking about their build, going over recaps, or talking to others has made it pretty clear what's going on.

One exception to that is occasionally when *relatively minor* exploits get "popular" for brief periods (old phoenix exploit, double mundus exploit, trap beast a couple years ago, old camo hunter exploit, etc.). Then you see those specific exploits with pretty regular frequency.

ManDraKE

No.

Lord_Wrath wrote: »

ManDraKE wrote: »

Lord_Wrath wrote: »

Assumption is not an argument.

accusing people of cheating withouth actually having any proof isn't an argument neither but here we are...

Now this is getting stupid. Are you trying to justify yourself by stepping on your own toes? You cant prove your assumption on others being bad players without proof so whats your point? This thread is about experiencing these things, which ive been experiencing 2 years longer than youve had the game.

Are you serious? next time some noobtard acuse me of cheating i have to record a video so i have "arguments" for you? Dear god ..

Lord_Wrath wrote: »

Then again they can barely decipher whats a bug/glitch/exploit without months worth of digging before/if they decide to do something about it or not. .

we are talking about CHEATING. Bugs, glitches and exploits are not cheats.

Drdeath20

Yes. Frequently.

Cyrodil population is too easy to game

rfennell_ESO

Yes. Frequently.

ManDraKE wrote: »

we are talking about CHEATING. Bugs, glitches and exploits are not cheats.

Abusing bugs, glitches and exploits ARE cheating.

Then again, ZOS has allowed bad behavior in PC to go on so long with little repercussions that it just doesn't seem like it.

Memory editing is hacking. All the other stuff is exploitation which is certainly cheating.

Drummerx04

No.

Most cheating accusations are basically, "That one guy 1vXed 5+ people and is unkillable, he must be cheating!!"

Then I go find the guy and kill him, stalemate him, or discover that (s)he's actually really good and kills me instead.

It really can't be overstated how important a decent gear and skill setup is, but it really comes down to each player to execute it properly. Maybe with all the addons telling people to dodge, or the reticle lock targeting, or whatever you want to blame leads people to think ESO doesn't require skill... but it is very possible to be good or bad at this game, and no matter how good you think you are, someone can always be better at it than you are.

alexx169111nrb19_ESO

Yes. Frequently.

1 exploit- no cheath. but 5 exploits=CHEATH. this mist ZOS

Biro123

No.

rfennell_ESO wrote: »

ManDraKE wrote: »

we are talking about CHEATING. Bugs, glitches and exploits are not cheats.

Abusing bugs, glitches and exploits ARE cheating.
.

I agree with that - but its very difficult to know - unless you see it repeatedly by the same person - if that bug/glitch/exploit is being intentionally triggered (ie abused - and therefore cheating) or if it just happened as a result of that player playing normally (not cheating) - which does happen.

ShadowProc

OdinForge wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

Solariken wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

This thread is a great way to see how many sore losers there are (sorrry solar! )

Video evidence of cheating has not been posted since they changed the API to block cheat engine. With all of the streamers and recorders around, it should be easy to find some proof.. but it doesn't exist.

There are a few exploits in the game, such as using fire rune in the BGs to knock someone into insta death via spawn protection environment damage, but sadly that's not what people are ever referring to when they say they are victims of cheating.

People always need excuses for why they lost. Some people refuse to ever take personal accountability.

You're welcome to post a recent video to prove me wrong. But you won't, because it doesn't exist.

What exactly do you expect to see in a video @Thogard? The only "videos" posted before featured brave souls looking for vigilante justice since ZOS refused to take action for SOOOooOo long. Cheat Engine and memory hacking in general are alive and well in ESO. They have literally done nothing to stop it.

they fixed the memory hack issues (cheat engine) when they made all of the regen and resource amounts server side rather than client side.

it would be pretty easy to prove though. just show someone using a channeled ability that goes through faster than it should, or show someone violating the 1s global cooldown, or show somoene chain casting ultimates.

Not to mention..

They also implemented a system that issues temp bans to memory hacking attempts. But yeah ironically they actually did fix CE as the result of a video posted about it, a video that got enough traction before ZOS tried to cover it up.

But it was too late as too many people were successfully made aware of it, and the ensuing chaos made ZOS address it. *** way to get ZOs to fix things, but it got the job done.

Whats amazing is that after all these years that there are some like you two who think Zos all of a sudden got thier act together. It was another bandaid.

THEY DID NOT FIX ANYTHING. It was a minor setback. It was a great 2 weeks when all of a sudden the great almighty 1 v xers were actually pretty easy kills.

But zos cant keep up with them because honestly they dont care about pvp anymore. Look at the responses they make to pvp threads compared to pve.

But hey maybe your right. They finally figured it out! Lol.