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Guild bank funds

  • dvonpm
    dvonpm
    ✭✭✭✭
    Here's what I'm unclear on -- how do guildmasters know what magnitude bid will be needed to win a trader?

    There has to be some information-sharing going on among guilds -- which is probably much more of a good thing than a bad one, given how unstable this "Sealed bids; bid on one trader only" system otherwise would be.

    They mostly find out exactly like how you would- by losing bids and learning the hard way. It's not magic. Make nice with your neighbors and guildies and don't be a jerk. There's no secret formula, and even if there were, we'd still need to compete for spaces.

    Mostly it's just hard work and playing nice with your neighbors. and not thinking you can screw everyone over as a long term strategy.


  • dvonpm
    dvonpm
    ✭✭✭✭
    Wow people care about trading guilds?

    I'm in 5 trading guilds and they are the top ones on my server (alt account). Never donated or paid a single gold to them. One of them even has weekly donation requirement. Just told the GM that either they could waive the requirement and enjoy the tax from the sales I bring or I will move to another trading guild.

    I mean I just need a stall in a prime location doesn't matter which guild it is. I don't understand people getting emotionally involved with trading guilds. For me the guilds are just slots for selling stuff nothing more and they get taxes from my sales. Win - win arrangement.

    True if you have decent sales.

    Not so true in general. If you aren't making high sales, aren't contributing and think everyone owes you a good trader for nothing, then you're basically dead weight and other people are paying your way, Which is fine for bad weeks or new players, but not fine for freeloaders who know better and it's not that hard to tell the difference.












    Edited by dvonpm on March 27, 2018 4:27AM
  • Armatesz
    Armatesz
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    dvonpm wrote: »
    Armatesz wrote: »
    I can understand some of the defense some people have over the guild trader spies in the works. But to say others don't have a right to ask is downright authoritarian down to its very core.

    Did anyone actually say that, though?

    You can ask. You prolly won't get a specific answer, but you can ask.



    Read some previous posts before and you can see it more than once.
    Ärmätèsz
    Xbox NA
    Guildless (by choice)
  • wenchmore420b14_ESO
    wenchmore420b14_ESO
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭
    dvonpm wrote: »
    Why does it cost 10 Million? Where does the other 20M go?

    You didn't answer this.

    Does your 'alliance' of guilds ....transfer money between each other to guarantee a regular placement?

    How is that fair to other, single-operator guilds?


    20 000 000 GP? Where does that go? The sink?

    Ok enough with the naming and shaming. I'm not familiar with those guilds, but it doesn't matter. Here's what my guild (which is not one of the ones you mentioned) does with extra gold, when we are operating above margin (which is not always). BAsically 2 things- warchest and guild house ammenities.

    We keep a "warchest" in the guild bank to sustain the sometimes weeks long trader wars that can happen. Periodically guilds will try to push you out and you have to make massive bids for weeks on end to fight them off.

    This has happened to my guild more times than I can remember and we nearly did lose our spot permanently before we had built up that warchest. We could not have kept our very good spot without me and other officers and few super generous guildies willing to scrimp gold in a pinch and fight for our spot. And by being very, very responsible with the money. (You are welcome, said every GM, officer, and super generous guildie ever.)

    You want to keep the spot, you are gonna have to help pay for it, it's that simple. And no, the 350g from your 10k sales is not really helping on a 3million + bid. It's one thing for new players, but if you've been around, not only can you help, but it's your responsibility. If you have the means and just aren't pitching in, you're basically just leaching.

    So we have a set amount for the warchest and when we get above that we increase raffle prizes or have other events with to give money back. We never really get above that amount for long.

    There are also just periodic increases in the bid prices. We need to be prepared for those, as you expect us to be. We need your gold to do that cause we ain't making 10 million a week sending out confirmation emails for every bank deposit.

    Second, as for sharing gold, I only know of this happening for "sister" guilds essentially run by the same person or people, and I suspect that's in large part because it's too time consuming to duplicate activities like raffles. These people are awesome and doing a ton of work for our benefit. It is not necessarily evil, and since I have never even heard of those guilds I'm geussing not that effective.

    The only thing our alliance with other guilds does is basically a non-aggression pact to not mess with each other's trader spots and a shared teamspeak, and I don't even know who pays for that.

    Also - guilds are not companies! There is no profit, there is ony a group of 500-ish constantly rotating people pooling their resources to pay for and reliably keep a shared resource- the trader. Contribute or don't, but 499 people don't owe you their time so you can get something for free that you can afford to help pay for, but won't.

    People work their asses off, spend real money and valuable time to make this work for others for no real benefit and all you can do is complain about how much they owe you?

    Rude.

    /endrant


    Edited to Add:

    Not done with rant. The time I just spent explaining to you what you should already know is the time I should have spent managing the guild roster and setting up a new raffle, and now lost the one f*&@ing hour of me time I had for the night. And several of those prizes are going to come from my inventory.

    Grr.








    An Awesome for You!
    Thank you for a well written response to that post.
    You never heard of those guilds because they AREN"T trade guilds!. That particular poster, and obviously many others, seem to think that ALL guilds are trade guilds and guilds only help each other to get trader kiosks and scam their members.
    Who would think that a guild called "Tamriel Fisheries" is actually a fishing guild? Or that "Children of Skyrim" is actually a RP guild?
    "Guild Alliance" can mean doing cross guild events, or helping with crafting for new members, or help new players find friendly guilds for PvP, and yes, help them find a "Good" trade guild.
    I apologize in that, every time I see one of those "GM's steal your gold" and "Trade guilds are just a scam" type postings, I get a little riled up.
    I remember when the only way to sell things was to just guild mates and stand on a corner in Riften!

    TLDR: The posts about scamming guilds and crooked GM's are misinformed and miss leading to the vast majorities of guilds in ESO. Yes there are a few bad ones. Just like in any thing else in life. There will be a "Bad Apple". But lets focus on the 99% of good ones and not rage about the 1% of bad ones.
    The current system is just fine. We just need more guild tools and abilities.
    Huzzah!
    Drakon Koryn~Oryndill, Rogue~Mage,- CP ~Doesn't matter any more
    NA / PC Beta Member since Nov 2013
    GM~Conclave-of-Shadows, EP Social Guild, ~Proud member of: The Wandering Merchants, Phoenix Rising, Imperial Trade Union & Celestials of Nirn
    Sister Guilds with: Coroner's Report, Children of Skyrim, Sunshine Daydream, Tamriel Fisheries, Knights Arcanum and more
    "Not All Who Wander are Lost"
    #MOREHOUSINGSLOTS
    “When the people that can make the company more successful are sales and marketing people, they end up running the companies. The product people get driven out of the decision making forums, and the companies forget what it means to make great products.”

    _Steve Jobs (The Lost Interview)
  • TarrNokk
    TarrNokk
    ✭✭✭✭
    I am member on 4 trade guilds. I have profit of round about 15 millions gold from sales on their traders in the last 6 months. I therefor payed my taxes which is the deal. I am happy. The GMs get good gold off my sales. Win/Win.
    Edited by TarrNokk on March 27, 2018 5:38PM
  • Armatesz
    Armatesz
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    dvonpm wrote: »
    Why does it cost 10 Million? Where does the other 20M go?

    You didn't answer this.

    Does your 'alliance' of guilds ....transfer money between each other to guarantee a regular placement?

    How is that fair to other, single-operator guilds?


    20 000 000 GP? Where does that go? The sink?

    Ok enough with the naming and shaming. I'm not familiar with those guilds, but it doesn't matter. Here's what my guild (which is not one of the ones you mentioned) does with extra gold, when we are operating above margin (which is not always). BAsically 2 things- warchest and guild house ammenities.

    We keep a "warchest" in the guild bank to sustain the sometimes weeks long trader wars that can happen. Periodically guilds will try to push you out and you have to make massive bids for weeks on end to fight them off.

    This has happened to my guild more times than I can remember and we nearly did lose our spot permanently before we had built up that warchest. We could not have kept our very good spot without me and other officers and few super generous guildies willing to scrimp gold in a pinch and fight for our spot. And by being very, very responsible with the money. (You are welcome, said every GM, officer, and super generous guildie ever.)

    You want to keep the spot, you are gonna have to help pay for it, it's that simple. And no, the 350g from your 10k sales is not really helping on a 3million + bid. It's one thing for new players, but if you've been around, not only can you help, but it's your responsibility. If you have the means and just aren't pitching in, you're basically just leaching.

    So we have a set amount for the warchest and when we get above that we increase raffle prizes or have other events with to give money back. We never really get above that amount for long.

    There are also just periodic increases in the bid prices. We need to be prepared for those, as you expect us to be. We need your gold to do that cause we ain't making 10 million a week sending out confirmation emails for every bank deposit.

    Second, as for sharing gold, I only know of this happening for "sister" guilds essentially run by the same person or people, and I suspect that's in large part because it's too time consuming to duplicate activities like raffles. These people are awesome and doing a ton of work for our benefit. It is not necessarily evil, and since I have never even heard of those guilds I'm geussing not that effective.

    The only thing our alliance with other guilds does is basically a non-aggression pact to not mess with each other's trader spots and a shared teamspeak, and I don't even know who pays for that.

    Also - guilds are not companies! There is no profit, there is ony a group of 500-ish constantly rotating people pooling their resources to pay for and reliably keep a shared resource- the trader. Contribute or don't, but 499 people don't owe you their time so you can get something for free that you can afford to help pay for, but won't.

    People work their asses off, spend real money and valuable time to make this work for others for no real benefit and all you can do is complain about how much they owe you?

    Rude.

    /endrant


    Edited to Add:

    Not done with rant. The time I just spent explaining to you what you should already know is the time I should have spent managing the guild roster and setting up a new raffle, and now lost the one f*&@ing hour of me time I had for the night. And several of those prizes are going to come from my inventory.

    Grr.








    An Awesome for You!
    Thank you for a well written response to that post.
    You never heard of those guilds because they AREN"T trade guilds!. That particular poster, and obviously many others, seem to think that ALL guilds are trade guilds and guilds only help each other to get trader kiosks and scam their members.
    Who would think that a guild called "Tamriel Fisheries" is actually a fishing guild? Or that "Children of Skyrim" is actually a RP guild?
    "Guild Alliance" can mean doing cross guild events, or helping with crafting for new members, or help new players find friendly guilds for PvP, and yes, help them find a "Good" trade guild.
    I apologize in that, every time I see one of those "GM's steal your gold" and "Trade guilds are just a scam" type postings, I get a little riled up.
    I remember when the only way to sell things was to just guild mates and stand on a corner in Riften!

    TLDR: The posts about scamming guilds and crooked GM's are misinformed and miss leading to the vast majorities of guilds in ESO. Yes there are a few bad ones. Just like in any thing else in life. There will be a "Bad Apple". But lets focus on the 99% of good ones and not rage about the 1% of bad ones.
    The current system is just fine. We just need more guild tools and abilities.
    Huzzah!

    Seen some guilds pull a sort of family connection (sister guilds) and try to help one another out. Sometimes this can be a bad thing, but not saying all of the chain is bad but just a bad apple among them that does this. Seen evidence of this from a friend that took screen shots of it. Guild my friend had a problem with still is around, I still see them do guild recruits, don't know if they changed their ways from what they were doing but have not heard them do it again so far. Have another friend that is in same said guild but so far they are not experiencing what my other friend did.
    I've seen enough guild recruits go here and there because I am guildless, some painfully obvious and others don't seem to be. If anything else I would say go around and find the one/s that click with you and stick with them. For whatever reason or reasons you have that you stick with them... stick with them.
    As for the tldr... that is plain ignorance. No excuse to try to dismiss someone of some bad experiences, maybe as to put to the point where not all are like this or maybe room for error among your own calculations.
    Ärmätèsz
    Xbox NA
    Guildless (by choice)
  • xilfxlegion
    xilfxlegion
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Recently guilds have decided that members are not entitled to see how much gold the guild has, how much they bid on a trader or any say in what they spend members money on. Guilds are handing gold to select members to buy houses etc. All members should be allowed to know what the guild is doing with the gold they get from members and sales. Like any organisation people join said organisation has an obligation to it's members to be open about everything the guild is doing especially when it comes to money. (any feedback would be appreciated)


    do you pay rent on your home in real life ? if so, does your landlord give you a detailed list of what he does with his money?

  • wenchmore420b14_ESO
    wenchmore420b14_ESO
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭
    Armatesz wrote: »
    dvonpm wrote: »
    Why does it cost 10 Million? Where does the other 20M go?

    You didn't answer this.

    Does your 'alliance' of guilds ....transfer money between each other to guarantee a regular placement?

    How is that fair to other, single-operator guilds?


    20 000 000 GP? Where does that go? The sink?

    Ok enough with the naming and shaming. I'm not familiar with those guilds, but it doesn't matter. Here's what my guild (which is not one of the ones you mentioned) does with extra gold, when we are operating above margin (which is not always). BAsically 2 things- warchest and guild house ammenities.

    We keep a "warchest" in the guild bank to sustain the sometimes weeks long trader wars that can happen. Periodically guilds will try to push you out and you have to make massive bids for weeks on end to fight them off.

    This has happened to my guild more times than I can remember and we nearly did lose our spot permanently before we had built up that warchest. We could not have kept our very good spot without me and other officers and few super generous guildies willing to scrimp gold in a pinch and fight for our spot. And by being very, very responsible with the money. (You are welcome, said every GM, officer, and super generous guildie ever.)

    You want to keep the spot, you are gonna have to help pay for it, it's that simple. And no, the 350g from your 10k sales is not really helping on a 3million + bid. It's one thing for new players, but if you've been around, not only can you help, but it's your responsibility. If you have the means and just aren't pitching in, you're basically just leaching.

    So we have a set amount for the warchest and when we get above that we increase raffle prizes or have other events with to give money back. We never really get above that amount for long.

    There are also just periodic increases in the bid prices. We need to be prepared for those, as you expect us to be. We need your gold to do that cause we ain't making 10 million a week sending out confirmation emails for every bank deposit.

    Second, as for sharing gold, I only know of this happening for "sister" guilds essentially run by the same person or people, and I suspect that's in large part because it's too time consuming to duplicate activities like raffles. These people are awesome and doing a ton of work for our benefit. It is not necessarily evil, and since I have never even heard of those guilds I'm geussing not that effective.

    The only thing our alliance with other guilds does is basically a non-aggression pact to not mess with each other's trader spots and a shared teamspeak, and I don't even know who pays for that.

    Also - guilds are not companies! There is no profit, there is ony a group of 500-ish constantly rotating people pooling their resources to pay for and reliably keep a shared resource- the trader. Contribute or don't, but 499 people don't owe you their time so you can get something for free that you can afford to help pay for, but won't.

    People work their asses off, spend real money and valuable time to make this work for others for no real benefit and all you can do is complain about how much they owe you?

    Rude.

    /endrant


    Edited to Add:

    Not done with rant. The time I just spent explaining to you what you should already know is the time I should have spent managing the guild roster and setting up a new raffle, and now lost the one f*&@ing hour of me time I had for the night. And several of those prizes are going to come from my inventory.

    Grr.








    An Awesome for You!
    Thank you for a well written response to that post.
    You never heard of those guilds because they AREN"T trade guilds!. That particular poster, and obviously many others, seem to think that ALL guilds are trade guilds and guilds only help each other to get trader kiosks and scam their members.
    Who would think that a guild called "Tamriel Fisheries" is actually a fishing guild? Or that "Children of Skyrim" is actually a RP guild?
    "Guild Alliance" can mean doing cross guild events, or helping with crafting for new members, or help new players find friendly guilds for PvP, and yes, help them find a "Good" trade guild.
    I apologize in that, every time I see one of those "GM's steal your gold" and "Trade guilds are just a scam" type postings, I get a little riled up.
    I remember when the only way to sell things was to just guild mates and stand on a corner in Riften!

    TLDR: The posts about scamming guilds and crooked GM's are misinformed and miss leading to the vast majorities of guilds in ESO. Yes there are a few bad ones. Just like in any thing else in life. There will be a "Bad Apple". But lets focus on the 99% of good ones and not rage about the 1% of bad ones.
    The current system is just fine. We just need more guild tools and abilities.
    Huzzah!

    Seen some guilds pull a sort of family connection (sister guilds) and try to help one another out. Sometimes this can be a bad thing, but not saying all of the chain is bad but just a bad apple among them that does this. Seen evidence of this from a friend that took screen shots of it. Guild my friend had a problem with still is around, I still see them do guild recruits, don't know if they changed their ways from what they were doing but have not heard them do it again so far. Have another friend that is in same said guild but so far they are not experiencing what my other friend did.
    I've seen enough guild recruits go here and there because I am guildless, some painfully obvious and others don't seem to be. If anything else I would say go around and find the one/s that click with you and stick with them. For whatever reason or reasons you have that you stick with them... stick with them.
    As for the tldr... that is plain ignorance. No excuse to try to dismiss someone of some bad experiences, maybe as to put to the point where not all are like this or maybe room for error among your own calculations.

    Well said! And I'm sorry if we got off on the wrong foot. I will admit, I have had a few, not many, bad experiences with a couple guilds. But who here that has been here since beta and launch haven't had 1 or 2?
    If we weren't on different platforms I would gladly invite you to our family and experience our guild.
    But I wish you good fortune and good luck in finding a "Good Guild". They are out there.
    Nut as far as the whole discussion, I have figured it out!!!
    Bottom line: Some see a glass half full, some see a glass half empty. And a engineer says the glass is faulty!! Lol..
    Huzzah!!!
    Drakon Koryn~Oryndill, Rogue~Mage,- CP ~Doesn't matter any more
    NA / PC Beta Member since Nov 2013
    GM~Conclave-of-Shadows, EP Social Guild, ~Proud member of: The Wandering Merchants, Phoenix Rising, Imperial Trade Union & Celestials of Nirn
    Sister Guilds with: Coroner's Report, Children of Skyrim, Sunshine Daydream, Tamriel Fisheries, Knights Arcanum and more
    "Not All Who Wander are Lost"
    #MOREHOUSINGSLOTS
    “When the people that can make the company more successful are sales and marketing people, they end up running the companies. The product people get driven out of the decision making forums, and the companies forget what it means to make great products.”

    _Steve Jobs (The Lost Interview)
  • Jameliel
    Jameliel
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    The first trade-guild I joined has a great leader. She spends a lot of time on keeping the guild in smooth running order, and has huge raffles every week. Most people seem friendly and willing to help others out. If you're in a shady guild, just leave and find another. There are plenty of decent ones.

  • Armatesz
    Armatesz
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Armatesz wrote: »
    dvonpm wrote: »
    Why does it cost 10 Million? Where does the other 20M go?

    You didn't answer this.

    Does your 'alliance' of guilds ....transfer money between each other to guarantee a regular placement?

    How is that fair to other, single-operator guilds?


    20 000 000 GP? Where does that go? The sink?

    Ok enough with the naming and shaming. I'm not familiar with those guilds, but it doesn't matter. Here's what my guild (which is not one of the ones you mentioned) does with extra gold, when we are operating above margin (which is not always). BAsically 2 things- warchest and guild house ammenities.

    We keep a "warchest" in the guild bank to sustain the sometimes weeks long trader wars that can happen. Periodically guilds will try to push you out and you have to make massive bids for weeks on end to fight them off.

    This has happened to my guild more times than I can remember and we nearly did lose our spot permanently before we had built up that warchest. We could not have kept our very good spot without me and other officers and few super generous guildies willing to scrimp gold in a pinch and fight for our spot. And by being very, very responsible with the money. (You are welcome, said every GM, officer, and super generous guildie ever.)

    You want to keep the spot, you are gonna have to help pay for it, it's that simple. And no, the 350g from your 10k sales is not really helping on a 3million + bid. It's one thing for new players, but if you've been around, not only can you help, but it's your responsibility. If you have the means and just aren't pitching in, you're basically just leaching.

    So we have a set amount for the warchest and when we get above that we increase raffle prizes or have other events with to give money back. We never really get above that amount for long.

    There are also just periodic increases in the bid prices. We need to be prepared for those, as you expect us to be. We need your gold to do that cause we ain't making 10 million a week sending out confirmation emails for every bank deposit.

    Second, as for sharing gold, I only know of this happening for "sister" guilds essentially run by the same person or people, and I suspect that's in large part because it's too time consuming to duplicate activities like raffles. These people are awesome and doing a ton of work for our benefit. It is not necessarily evil, and since I have never even heard of those guilds I'm geussing not that effective.

    The only thing our alliance with other guilds does is basically a non-aggression pact to not mess with each other's trader spots and a shared teamspeak, and I don't even know who pays for that.

    Also - guilds are not companies! There is no profit, there is ony a group of 500-ish constantly rotating people pooling their resources to pay for and reliably keep a shared resource- the trader. Contribute or don't, but 499 people don't owe you their time so you can get something for free that you can afford to help pay for, but won't.

    People work their asses off, spend real money and valuable time to make this work for others for no real benefit and all you can do is complain about how much they owe you?

    Rude.

    /endrant


    Edited to Add:

    Not done with rant. The time I just spent explaining to you what you should already know is the time I should have spent managing the guild roster and setting up a new raffle, and now lost the one f*&@ing hour of me time I had for the night. And several of those prizes are going to come from my inventory.

    Grr.








    An Awesome for You!
    Thank you for a well written response to that post.
    You never heard of those guilds because they AREN"T trade guilds!. That particular poster, and obviously many others, seem to think that ALL guilds are trade guilds and guilds only help each other to get trader kiosks and scam their members.
    Who would think that a guild called "Tamriel Fisheries" is actually a fishing guild? Or that "Children of Skyrim" is actually a RP guild?
    "Guild Alliance" can mean doing cross guild events, or helping with crafting for new members, or help new players find friendly guilds for PvP, and yes, help them find a "Good" trade guild.
    I apologize in that, every time I see one of those "GM's steal your gold" and "Trade guilds are just a scam" type postings, I get a little riled up.
    I remember when the only way to sell things was to just guild mates and stand on a corner in Riften!

    TLDR: The posts about scamming guilds and crooked GM's are misinformed and miss leading to the vast majorities of guilds in ESO. Yes there are a few bad ones. Just like in any thing else in life. There will be a "Bad Apple". But lets focus on the 99% of good ones and not rage about the 1% of bad ones.
    The current system is just fine. We just need more guild tools and abilities.
    Huzzah!

    Seen some guilds pull a sort of family connection (sister guilds) and try to help one another out. Sometimes this can be a bad thing, but not saying all of the chain is bad but just a bad apple among them that does this. Seen evidence of this from a friend that took screen shots of it. Guild my friend had a problem with still is around, I still see them do guild recruits, don't know if they changed their ways from what they were doing but have not heard them do it again so far. Have another friend that is in same said guild but so far they are not experiencing what my other friend did.
    I've seen enough guild recruits go here and there because I am guildless, some painfully obvious and others don't seem to be. If anything else I would say go around and find the one/s that click with you and stick with them. For whatever reason or reasons you have that you stick with them... stick with them.
    As for the tldr... that is plain ignorance. No excuse to try to dismiss someone of some bad experiences, maybe as to put to the point where not all are like this or maybe room for error among your own calculations.

    Well said! And I'm sorry if we got off on the wrong foot. I will admit, I have had a few, not many, bad experiences with a couple guilds. But who here that has been here since beta and launch haven't had 1 or 2?
    If we weren't on different platforms I would gladly invite you to our family and experience our guild.
    But I wish you good fortune and good luck in finding a "Good Guild". They are out there.
    Nut as far as the whole discussion, I have figured it out!!!
    Bottom line: Some see a glass half full, some see a glass half empty. And a engineer says the glass is faulty!! Lol..
    Huzzah!!!

    Oh I don't hate anyone, I don't like it when others are wronged but not so quick to point fingers if I am not fully sure on things or enough evidence. I try to be understanding of the possibilities and not to squander such possibilities tho. As for me not being in a guild has nothing to do with good or bad guilds out there. It comes down to wanting to find some things out before I readily decide to join one. I think I have a well enough mind to know of what I would look for in a guild. I don't need a guild to make money, I have proved to myself that I know how to make money outside of selling or guild traders. I don't mean a small amount either... half a million in a week sound like a good amount? If anything it would likely be the connection I would have with people. Offering advice for various things, things I have learned over the time I have played the game. I know full well there is always going to be things others have to teach me as well as such a thing does get me a bit anxious of the possible things to learn. But for why guildless can be a sort of pilgrimage of sorts. There are things you only learn while being guildless.
    Ärmätèsz
    Xbox NA
    Guildless (by choice)
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