Magicka Sorcerer Need Balance in PVP : Yes Another Thread for ZOS

Lord_Eomer

Dear ZOS,

@wrobel, @ZOS_GinaBruno , @ZOS_JessicaFolsom

I play myself sorcerer and love this class but balance is important. This class is doing good in PVE and need not Nerf.

Skills that used mostly in PVP need a nerf, Magicka Sorcerer is very powerful in PVP. I am playing ESO since 2 Years and know about any mechanics so please refrain posting L2P etc.

I found sorcerer powerful due to many reasons, few I am listing below.

1. Shield Stacking ""Healing Ward, Harness Magicka, Hardened Ward and then Streak".
Non Sorc PVP Player Explaination : This make jolk to other players in PVP Zone

2. Jumping and Spamming Inferno Heavy Attack, casting Curse and then Crystal Fragment.
Non Sorc PVP Player Explanation : Most probably died till now

3. Spamming Crushing Shock and Endless Fury
Non Sorc PVP Player Explanation : Sorc almost got a kill just cast Curse in between to finish

4. Mine (Deadric Tomb) and then cast Streak
Non Sorc PVP Player Explanation I was killing sorc, he is now far away and spamming curse, crushing shock on me

5. Sorc Buddy Implosion Helping Kill
Non Sorc PVP Player Explanation I was about to take sorc but Something Shown up in Death Recap "Implosion Proc"

6. Streak then cast Dark Conversion
Non Sorc PVP Player Explanation That Sorc had no resources?

There are many other ways Sorcerers are Over Performing, I hope other players will add them to list.

clocksstoppe

Streak is annoying as *** but the true issue is indeed the rng procs. When i'm fighting a sorc it's not a fight against the sorc player, it's a fight against time because eventually he will get the lucky frags and imposion procs and kill me instantly. For some devs that hated the *** out of proc sets and nerfed them to the ground, they sure love their OP sorc procs.

Karmanorway

What about templars and their healing abilities?
And those unsoloable DKs? We where a zerg of 6 ppl trying to kill one templar yesterday, impossible. All classes have their strengths, and i dont find sorc much harder to kill then any other classes as long as the players know what they are doing including sorcerers

Betheny

Added to PVP nerf demand threads list.

OdinForge

2. Jumping and Spamming Inferno Heavy Attack, casting Curse and then Crystal Fragment.
Non Sorc PVP Player Explanation : Most probably died till now

lmfao

I'm going to intentionally jump around so much on my sorc, I didn't realize how traumatizing jumping was in ESO.

Apherius

Wut ? i don't understand anything ...

So the dark deal and the streak are op cause the non sorc pvp player explanation is " the sorc had no ressource " ? wth.

and the sorc is also op cause sometime he spam heavy attack and use crushing shock ... ( lel -_-) ...

i will try to do like you and argue with non-sens sentence.

1. Invisibility " Cloak "
Non NB PVP Player Explanation : he was there , but now he isn't there anymore ,OP cause he used a skill

2. Jumping and Spamming Inferno Heavy Attack, using Funnel health and then spectral bow
Non NB PVP Players Explanation : Most probably died till now

Non-sense ? yes , you see what i understand when i read you now.

idk

Karmanorway wrote: »

What about templars and their healing abilities?
And those unsoloable DKs? We where a zerg of 6 ppl trying to kill one templar yesterday, impossible. All classes have their strengths, and i dont find sorc much harder to kill then any other classes as long as the players know what they are doing including sorcerers

Lets not forget the perma stealth NBs and the damn Warden Cliff Racers that cannot be dodged.

First year in the game had a guidie who played a sorc. Complained about the other three classes being OP. He ended up leveling a NB and funny thing is he complained the other three classes, including the Sorc were OP. I think we have the same kind of thing here.

Waffennacht

Go a head nerf sorcs, we'll have about 2 weeks until nerf whatever they rerolled to starts popping up

Malamar1229

I still see less magicka sorcs than others in PC NA. There must be a reason why all I see is stamina...

Also, let's talk about magdens and overperformance...i have one too, and what a joke compared to my magicka sorc.

WreckfulAbandon

The only idea you have that I agree with is to nerf Dark Conversion a bit. Because resource management should be about actual management and not just LOSing behind a tree so you can't be interrupted.

ZOS_KatP

We have removed several comments from this thread as they were not constructive to the conversation. Please keep all commentary relevant to the topic at hand.

Thanks!

THEDKEXPERIENCE

Every class can be OP if you're creative enough. All you gotta do against mag sorcs is stack a ton of magic or stamina, outlast their initial burst, and fry.

And if you're asking, how much Magicka or Stamina would I need, the answer is more. Spell Power and Weapon damage sound cool but they won't help you beat a bursting player. An extra 12k magic or stamina then they have certainly will.

ak_pvp

Ehhh...

Shields sure, conversion interrupt definitely (have to waste stam whilst sorc is free to cast again.) Implosion maybe... (Imo nerf damage a bit and give to DKs to synergise with dots instead of burst, replace sorcs implosion with a burning light but with a dot/stun chance)

Streak needs a buff if shields are nerfed, sorcs survivability should come from movement and range. Streak is such a strange ability, too expensive to use as a defense but its drawbacks don't appear until too late. It should instead have its cost removed, but have a one per x second limit. This way its more usable as a combat mechanic, and not spam to run away.

Lower cost on mines: Again, helps to keep range, root immunity exists now so shouldn't be too exploity.

The rest are non issues, mines into streak? Wow people used multiple skills in a way that is useful, pls nurf guis. Wow, they timed curse/frags. Damn guess I can't combo anything, lets put a silence on players until curse has popped, too OP. (/s if needed.)

Waffennacht wrote: »

Go a head nerf sorcs, we'll have about 2 weeks until nerf whatever they rerolled to starts popping up

Money on warden p2w kappa.

ak_pvp

del pls

bardx86

Lord_Dexter wrote: »

Dear ZOS,

@wrobel, @ZOS_GinaBruno , @ZOS_JessicaFolsom

I play myself sorcerer and love this class but balance is important. This class is doing good in PVE and need not Nerf.

Skills that used mostly in PVP need a nerf, Magicka Sorcerer is very powerful in PVP. I am playing ESO since 2 Years and know about any mechanics so please refrain posting L2P etc.

I found sorcerer powerful due to many reasons, few I am listing below.

1. Shield Stacking ""Healing Ward, Harness Magicka, Hardened Ward and then Streak".
Non Sorc PVP Player Explaination : This make jolk to other players in PVP Zone

2. Jumping and Spamming Inferno Heavy Attack, casting Curse and then Crystal Fragment.
Non Sorc PVP Player Explanation : Most probably died till now

3. Spamming Crushing Shock and Endless Fury
Non Sorc PVP Player Explanation : Sorc almost got a kill just cast Curse in between to finish

4. Mine (Deadric Tomb) and then cast Streak
Non Sorc PVP Player Explanation I was killing sorc, he is now far away and spamming curse, crushing shock on me

5. Sorc Buddy Implosion Helping Kill
Non Sorc PVP Player Explanation I was about to take sorc but Something Shown up in Death Recap "Implosion Proc"

6. Streak then cast Dark Conversion
Non Sorc PVP Player Explanation That Sorc had no resources?

There are many other ways Sorcerers are Over Performing, I hope other players will add them to list.

Nice troll but I'll bite. Yes Sorcs do needs some balance. Sorcs damage could use some help. Personally I think some of their skills could use a penetration mod to help against the current damage mitigation meta. A 5k curse or a 6-7 k frag isn't enough currently and only really works against potatoes or other Sorcs honestly. How about adding a penetration component to say frags like 4k pen? Much like lures back in the EQ days. A skill like Frags that almost never lands should really hurt vs just about any build.

Beardimus

So....another Nerf Sorc thread just badly written?

Brrrofski

Honestly I have 2 slight things I feel need changing on sorc.

Mages wrath/endless fury - The 4 second window is too much. Especially outnumbered. Sorc puts it on you and as soon as drop below 20% in 4 seconds, you die. No counterplay unlike other executes. No dodge, block, interrupt, heal out of it. It's too strong. Duration reduction would be good imo. Wouldn't really effect Pve either.

Frag proccing - I think proccing when shielding is broken. You can be pressuring a sorc and he's super defensive. Most sorcs have conjured ward on front bar. I have since I first made a magica sorc, way before shield duration nerf (which wasn't even a nerf really. In combat if someone isn't bringing your shield down in 6 seconds then you've already won the fight). They can all of a sudden, hit you with 8k. From being super defensive. CC you too. I'd like to see frags only proc off offensive skills. Streak would still count. I use that offensively as well as for kiting. It's only really shields on the average sorc build that would be effected. Again, not much effect on Pve.

I play magica sorc for reference and have played it more than most other classes. I don't think shields themselves are issues. Yes, they're stong. But you just need to time CCs and burst. They also have weaknesses such as snares which other classes don't have issues with.

Biro123

Brrrofski wrote: »

Honestly I have 2 slight things I feel need changing on sorc.

Mages wrath/endless fury - The 4 second window is too much. Especially outnumbered. Sorc puts it on you and as soon as drop below 20% in 4 seconds, you die. No counterplay unlike other executes. No dodge, block, interrupt, heal out of it. It's too strong. Duration reduction would be good imo. Wouldn't really effect Pve either.

Frag proccing - I think proccing when shielding is broken. You can be pressuring a sorc and he's super defensive. Most sorcs have conjured ward on front bar. I have since I first made a magica sorc, way before shield duration nerf (which wasn't even a nerf really. In combat if someone isn't bringing your shield down in 6 seconds then you've already won the fight). They can all of a sudden, hit you with 8k. From being super defensive. CC you too. I'd like to see frags only proc off offensive skills. Streak would still count. I use that offensively as well as for kiting. It's only really shields on the average sorc build that would be effected. Again, not much effect on Pve.

I play magica sorc for reference and have played it more than most other classes. I don't think shields themselves are issues. Yes, they're stong. But you just need to time CCs and burst. They also have weaknesses such as snares which other classes don't have issues with.

I could only really agree with the frag-proc suggestion if it was also made to proc regardless of which bar its slotted on.. This is for the benefit of DW sorcs who need those frags. Yes, it can give a quick turnaround - but in reality, if you only have frags slotted on one bar, that 1-in-3 proc change is really only 1-in-6 assuming you spend roughly half your time on each bar. Stopping it proccing on shields would make it, what? 1-in-10? I'd have to drop DW and switch to staff - and would probably then drop frags anyway in favour of some utility..

Brrrofski

Biro123 wrote: »

Brrrofski wrote: »

Honestly I have 2 slight things I feel need changing on sorc.

Mages wrath/endless fury - The 4 second window is too much. Especially outnumbered. Sorc puts it on you and as soon as drop below 20% in 4 seconds, you die. No counterplay unlike other executes. No dodge, block, interrupt, heal out of it. It's too strong. Duration reduction would be good imo. Wouldn't really effect Pve either.

Frag proccing - I think proccing when shielding is broken. You can be pressuring a sorc and he's super defensive. Most sorcs have conjured ward on front bar. I have since I first made a magica sorc, way before shield duration nerf (which wasn't even a nerf really. In combat if someone isn't bringing your shield down in 6 seconds then you've already won the fight). They can all of a sudden, hit you with 8k. From being super defensive. CC you too. I'd like to see frags only proc off offensive skills. Streak would still count. I use that offensively as well as for kiting. It's only really shields on the average sorc build that would be effected. Again, not much effect on Pve.

I play magica sorc for reference and have played it more than most other classes. I don't think shields themselves are issues. Yes, they're stong. But you just need to time CCs and burst. They also have weaknesses such as snares which other classes don't have issues with.

I could only really agree with the frag-proc suggestion if it was also made to proc regardless of which bar its slotted on.. This is for the benefit of DW sorcs who need those frags. Yes, it can give a quick turnaround - but in reality, if you only have frags slotted on one bar, that 1-in-3 proc change is really only 1-in-6 assuming you spend roughly half your time on each bar. Stopping it proccing on shields would make it, what? 1-in-10? I'd have to drop DW and switch to staff - and would probably then drop frags anyway in favour of some utility..

Maybe it does kill a playstyle. Doesn't mean it isn't broken though. Going super defensive then out of nowhere taking 8-10k of someone is just a bit stupid imo.

On my sorc if I'm under pressure, I'll spam shield while putting a curse on the guy. Then spam until I get a frag. Endless fury, frag & curse go off, dawnbreaker, good night. Just seems broken to me.

Biro123

Brrrofski wrote: »

Biro123 wrote: »

Brrrofski wrote: »

Honestly I have 2 slight things I feel need changing on sorc.

Mages wrath/endless fury - The 4 second window is too much. Especially outnumbered. Sorc puts it on you and as soon as drop below 20% in 4 seconds, you die. No counterplay unlike other executes. No dodge, block, interrupt, heal out of it. It's too strong. Duration reduction would be good imo. Wouldn't really effect Pve either.

Frag proccing - I think proccing when shielding is broken. You can be pressuring a sorc and he's super defensive. Most sorcs have conjured ward on front bar. I have since I first made a magica sorc, way before shield duration nerf (which wasn't even a nerf really. In combat if someone isn't bringing your shield down in 6 seconds then you've already won the fight). They can all of a sudden, hit you with 8k. From being super defensive. CC you too. I'd like to see frags only proc off offensive skills. Streak would still count. I use that offensively as well as for kiting. It's only really shields on the average sorc build that would be effected. Again, not much effect on Pve.

I play magica sorc for reference and have played it more than most other classes. I don't think shields themselves are issues. Yes, they're stong. But you just need to time CCs and burst. They also have weaknesses such as snares which other classes don't have issues with.

I could only really agree with the frag-proc suggestion if it was also made to proc regardless of which bar its slotted on.. This is for the benefit of DW sorcs who need those frags. Yes, it can give a quick turnaround - but in reality, if you only have frags slotted on one bar, that 1-in-3 proc change is really only 1-in-6 assuming you spend roughly half your time on each bar. Stopping it proccing on shields would make it, what? 1-in-10? I'd have to drop DW and switch to staff - and would probably then drop frags anyway in favour of some utility..

Maybe it does kill a playstyle. Doesn't mean it isn't broken though. Going super defensive then out of nowhere taking 8-10k of someone is just a bit stupid imo.

On my sorc if I'm under pressure, I'll spam shield while putting a curse on the guy. Then spam until I get a frag. Endless fury, frag & curse go off, dawnbreaker, good night. Just seems broken to me.

Ahh. I see you're on console.. Frags have a much lower hit-rate on PC cos of addons telling people when to block/dodge. Until something is done around that, they will never be able to properly balance projectiles across all platforms.

Tyrion87

What you're saying is just another stereotype about sorcs in pvp which is not true. I find some specs of other classes even more annoying than the one you described regarding mag sorcs, especially the setups that can heal themselves from 10% to full in one click.

You really think ZOS is able to make changes to mag sorc in pvp without affecting pve side? If so, you're wrong. Any nerfs they would make to pvp sorc, they would hurt pve sorc even more. And since stam is superior now in pve, nerfs is the last thing mag classes need atm. The only thing I could agree with regard to sorc in pvp, is shield stacking which sometimes can be a problem. Harness magicka and hardened ward should 'overwrite' each other. But only if defenses of other classes are adjusted accordingly. And healing ward should remain unchanged. I find other classes better in terms of burst, healing and sustain in pvp so sorc does not need a nerf in this regard.

Torbschka

25k+ HP, fury 4k wpn DMG , 2k+ reg bone Pirat heavy armor stamina players... Try bursting them with ur 6k frag and 5k curse while they beat the *** out if u xD

Ankael07

Brrrofski

Biro123 wrote: »

Brrrofski wrote: »

Biro123 wrote: »

Brrrofski wrote: »

Honestly I have 2 slight things I feel need changing on sorc.

Mages wrath/endless fury - The 4 second window is too much. Especially outnumbered. Sorc puts it on you and as soon as drop below 20% in 4 seconds, you die. No counterplay unlike other executes. No dodge, block, interrupt, heal out of it. It's too strong. Duration reduction would be good imo. Wouldn't really effect Pve either.

Frag proccing - I think proccing when shielding is broken. You can be pressuring a sorc and he's super defensive. Most sorcs have conjured ward on front bar. I have since I first made a magica sorc, way before shield duration nerf (which wasn't even a nerf really. In combat if someone isn't bringing your shield down in 6 seconds then you've already won the fight). They can all of a sudden, hit you with 8k. From being super defensive. CC you too. I'd like to see frags only proc off offensive skills. Streak would still count. I use that offensively as well as for kiting. It's only really shields on the average sorc build that would be effected. Again, not much effect on Pve.

I play magica sorc for reference and have played it more than most other classes. I don't think shields themselves are issues. Yes, they're stong. But you just need to time CCs and burst. They also have weaknesses such as snares which other classes don't have issues with.

I could only really agree with the frag-proc suggestion if it was also made to proc regardless of which bar its slotted on.. This is for the benefit of DW sorcs who need those frags. Yes, it can give a quick turnaround - but in reality, if you only have frags slotted on one bar, that 1-in-3 proc change is really only 1-in-6 assuming you spend roughly half your time on each bar. Stopping it proccing on shields would make it, what? 1-in-10? I'd have to drop DW and switch to staff - and would probably then drop frags anyway in favour of some utility..

Maybe it does kill a playstyle. Doesn't mean it isn't broken though. Going super defensive then out of nowhere taking 8-10k of someone is just a bit stupid imo.

On my sorc if I'm under pressure, I'll spam shield while putting a curse on the guy. Then spam until I get a frag. Endless fury, frag & curse go off, dawnbreaker, good night. Just seems broken to me.

Ahh. I see you're on console.. Frags have a much lower hit-rate on PC cos of addons telling people when to block/dodge. Until something is done around that, they will never be able to properly balance projectiles across all platforms.

Yeh, I'd hate to have all those add-ons. That cleanse now and dodge bs just help bad players.

Good players will read a fight for themselves and pay attention to what their or the enemy's character is telling them.

Lord_Wrath

As a sorc on pc i die just as much as anyone else, even with shields up you can be insta-killed by stam animation cancellers. I feel lately most are either a megatank or megahealer and im barely doing dmg against them. Against a not so experienced player I can rock them no problem.